Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

[Crystal]

That's sweet, thank you. You may be surprised to hear I was the more uncomfortable one. I'm all standing there in front of a wall with a dozen different kinds of bras that all look the same to me, and she's all "hey try on this mesh bra with a collar!"

Aww, that's really cute. She's a go-getter, that's fortunate!

I totally understand where you're coming from and am not trying to change your feelings, but imo someone being uncomfortable just because a person is harmlessly existing near them is firmly a them problem.

It is, but I have always hating people being uncomfortable because of me. I'm weird, always have been, lol, so people are uncomfortable around me, that makes me want to get away from them so they won't feel uncomfortable, and things have only gotten more...attuned(?) since coming out.

 

[Kat]

I'm weird, always have been, lol, so people are uncomfortable around me, that makes me want to get away from them so they won't feel uncomfortable

Sounds like you need to live in a place which embraces weird people. Once your personal situation allows it, of course.

 

[Crystal]

Sounds like you need to live in a place which embraces weird people. Once your personal situation allows it, of course.

Yeah, Arizona is one of the reddest blue states, lol

 

[Mark]

It is, but I have always hating people being uncomfortable because of me. I'm weird, always have been, lol, so people are uncomfortable around me, that makes me want to get away from them so they won't feel uncomfortable, and things have only gotten more...attuned(?) since coming out.

Sounds like you need to just put on your war face and walk in that bitch and make people uncomfortable. Of ALL places, VS/Pink tend to be one of those places where you’re only really gonna get looks from the other customers… and if anyone’s checking you out while shopping for themselves or someone else, fuck ‘em. I’ve went into those stores both platonically with female friends who didn’t feel comfortable going alone/wanted a male opinion AND with girlfriends and not once did the employees make me feel outta place as one of the only dudes there. Hell, I’ve gone in there by myself buying lingerie that realistically could have gone either way… I could have been rocking that shit under my jeans and t-shirt for all they knew, and they didn’t bat an eye, but the customers treated me weird as if I were visualizing them in the articles they were picking out.

Granted, I know it’s a different circumstance for you and would be awkward getting fit at first, but… newsflash, it’s awkward for every chick that realizes she’s been buying the wrong band or cup size for years, so you’ll be able to laugh it off and move on. The people there are incredibly nice, you gotta remember… they’re more used to seeing people in underwear or helping them shop for it THAN ANYONE.

 

[Crystal]

Sounds like you need to just put on your war face and walk in that bitch and make people uncomfortable. Of ALL places, VS/Pink tend to be one of those places where you’re only really gonna get looks from the other customers… and if anyone’s checking you out while shopping for themselves or someone else, fuck ‘em. I’ve went into those stores both platonically with female friends who didn’t feel comfortable going alone/wanted a male opinion AND with girlfriends and not once did the employees make me feel outta place as one of the only dudes there. Hell, I’ve gone in there by myself buying lingerie that realistically could have gone either way… I could have been rocking that shit under my jeans and t-shirt for all they knew, and they didn’t bat an eye, but the customers treated me weird as if I were visualizing them in the articles they were picking out.

I think it's a little different for a dude type of dude, but I get the idea. It's just how I feel in general. I got shit on a lot as a kid (not literally) for being weird, it rubs me the wrong way to see people feel that way about me no matter the situation.

Granted, I know it’s a different circumstance for you and would be awkward getting fit at first, but… newsflash, it’s awkward for every chick that realizes she’s been buying the wrong band or cup size for years, so you’ll be able to laugh it off and move on. The people there are incredibly nice, you gotta remember… they’re more used to seeing people in underwear or helping them shop for it THAN ANYONE.

Yeah, but I'm gross. Grosser than gross. I don't want to see me in my underwear, why should I subject them to it?

 

[Mark]

I think it's a little different for a dude type of dude, but I get the idea. It's just how I feel in general. I got shit on a lot as a kid (not literally) for being weird, it rubs me the wrong way to see people feel that way about me no matter the situation.

My point behind relating my story is that even as a “dude dude”, it’s still an awkward experience at first that gets better with time. It’s awkward for even the women that go there the first time, and then it’s easier the second time, and then eventually it’s just shopping at another store… which is terrible on its own, but unrelated to whether or not the shopper is trans or not. Shopping just sucks.

Yeah, but I'm gross. Grosser than gross. I don't want to see me in my underwear, why should I subject them to it?

Same reason why a proctologist spends their days looking at assholes… it’s their job. They’ve seen it ALL, and you really only need to see three types of tits to see to accomplish that… small, medium, and large. Beyond that, they’re generally the same… two nipples, one or both could be tattooed on for double mastectomy patients, etc. Point being, if they’re making you uncomfortable… use your position to speak up, because chances are… you wouldn’t be alone. It’s okay for you to feel awkward at first though, because most people do.

 

[Crystal]

My point behind relating my story is that even as a “dude dude”, it’s still an awkward experience at first that gets better with time. It’s awkward for even the women that go there the first time, and then it’s easier the second time, and then eventually it’s just shopping at another store… which is terrible on its own, but unrelated to whether or not the shopper is trans or not. Shopping just sucks.

Yeah, I guess. I'll try one day...some day...maybe...

It's also super common for trans women to feel out of place or concerned going to lingerie stores because of the same feelings I have, so it's nice to know I'm not alone there.

Same reason why a proctologist spends their days looking at assholes… it’s their job. They’ve seen it ALL, and you really only need to see three types of tits to see to accomplish that… small, medium, and large. Beyond that, they’re generally the same… two nipples, one or both could be tattooed on for double mastectomy patients, etc. Point being, if they’re making you uncomfortable… use your position to speak up, because chances are… you wouldn’t be alone. It’s okay for you to feel awkward at first though, because most people do.

It's not just an at first thing, I would think they would be tolerating me, and that still sends my brain to the place where I feel I'm making them uncomfortable. Giant man chest with moderate boobage will make them uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know how to get past that fact.

 

[Mark]

Yeah, I guess. I'll try one day...some day...maybe...

It's also super common for trans women to feel out of place or concerned going to lingerie stores because of the same feelings I have, so it's nice to know I'm not alone there.

I can’t imagine you’d be alone considering how most people feel going to those kinda stores the first few times, but you just gotta own your identity and to hell with whoever doesn’t like you.

It's not just an at first thing, I would think they would be tolerating me, and that still sends my brain to the place where I feel I'm making them uncomfortable. Giant man chest with moderate boobage will make them uncomfortable, it makes me uncomfortable. I don't know how to get past that fact.

Look at it this way, then… you know what it’s like looking at the same line of code over and over back when you did that kinda work. Every once and a while you encounter something a little different, but you just press on and keep at it, and by the end of the day it doesn’t matter, right? Gotta just get through the shift, right? Same applies for them.

 

[Crystal]

I can’t imagine you’d be alone considering how most people feel going to those kinda stores the first few times, but you just gotta own your identity and to hell with whoever doesn’t like you.

That's what the therapists are for, but so far I'm batting a solid zero.

Look at it this way, then… you know what it’s like looking at the same line of code over and over back when you did that kinda work. Every once and a while you encounter something a little different, but you just press on and keep at it, and by the end of the day it doesn’t matter, right? Gotta just get through the shift, right? Same applies for them.

So I should be the one oddity they have to deal with and that's ok because they're getting paid? That logic doesn't work for me, I'm ok being an oddity, I've been one my entire life, but I don't want to force people to deal with me, I'm not Jessica Yaniv.

 

[Mark]

That's what the therapists are for, but so far I'm batting a solid zero.

A therapist is only going to help you with tips to help you embrace your identity, but your identity is yours alone to find and put out there.

So I should be the one oddity they have to deal with and that's ok because they're getting paid? That logic doesn't work for me, I'm ok being an oddity, I've been one my entire life, but I don't want to force people to deal with me, I'm not Jessica Yaniv.

You’re only the oddity if you walk in there acting like one, but if you walk in there just to shop then you’re just another customer in a long line of many. Honestly, they’d probably welcome you more than your average teenager dipshit that leaves the racks and displays a mess. I’ve seen trans women in those kinds of places before, ones that are “obvious” like you describe… and not once did I overhear anyone making comments or anything down those lines, and I’d be privy to overhearing that kind of talk since I’m not exactly someone those types of judgemental fucks tend to mind their words around. Rest assured… if I heard that kind of talk, or any of the people I’ve went into those stores with heard it, those kinds of people would be addressed. I’ve seen their staff kick a young girl out for being rude to another customer and saying she was “too fat” to wear something there. They were shopping together. The ones I’ve been to don’t tolerate that kind of behavior.

 

[Crystal]

A therapist is only going to help you with tips to help you embrace your identity, but your identity is yours alone to find and put out there.

Well then, I've found mine. Scared shitless trans recluse.

You’re only the oddity if you walk in there acting like one, but if you walk in there just to shop then you’re just another customer in a long line of many. Honestly, they’d probably welcome you more than your average teenager dipshit that leaves the racks and displays a mess. I’ve seen trans women in those kinds of places before, ones that are “obvious” like you describe… and not once did I overhear anyone making comments or anything down those lines, and I’d be privy to overhearing that kind of talk since I’m not exactly someone those types of judgemental fucks tend to mind their words around. Rest assured… if I heard that kind of talk, or any of the people I’ve went into those stores with heard it, those kinds of people would be addressed. I’ve seen their staff kick a young girl out for being rude to another customer and saying she was “too fat” to wear something there. They were shopping together. The ones I’ve been to don’t tolerate that kind of behavior.

Yeah, that sounds better, but still, if I can see I'm not making them comfortable I won't be able to do it.

I would hate for someone to stand up for me, let people attack me, let them say mean things behind my back. I deserve that and more. So yeah, stand up for others, but be mindful they're not like me first. ...and by not like me I don't mean trans, I just mean fucked in the head.

(also completely unrelated but I just found out Jessica Yaniv changed her name to Jessica Simpson, lmao!)

 

[Kat]

So I should be the one oddity they have to deal with and that's ok because they're getting paid? That logic doesn't work for me, I'm ok being an oddity, I've been one my entire life, but I don't want to force people to deal with me, I'm not Jessica Yaniv.

I honestly don't think they will care at all. You're just a person buying stuff off a rack. It's the same as any other store really. If you do get measured, they do it over your clothes, so nobody will see your boobs or underwear (at least that's how they did me). Probably they would explain how to do it and give you a tape measure and a fitting room to do it yourself if you preferred.

I totally get why you're still uncomfortable, those places also make me uncomfortable, albeit for different reasons. I don't think you will be making the employees uncomfortable though. You're not weird or anything to them, you're just another random customer they'll instantly forget when you leave.

I end up in Arizona pretty frequently, maybe I'll attempt to drag you to a store with me one day and we can be uncomfortable together.

 

[Mark]

Well then, I've found mine. Scared shitless trans recluse.

For NOW, but you won’t remain that way. Just a matter of coming out of your shell and becoming comfortable with yourself. I know it’s an awful turn of phrase considering that’s how you formerly described yourself growing up, but it holds truer now than back then… because you missed that early opportunity to do it living your past life unfortunately.

Yeah, that sounds better, but still, if I can see I'm not making them comfortable I won't be able to do it.

I would hate for someone to stand up for me, let people attack me, let them say mean things behind my back. I deserve that and more. So yeah, stand up for others, but be mindful they're not like me first. ...and by not like me I don't mean trans, I just mean fucked in the head.

(also completely unrelated but I just found out Jessica Yaniv changed her name to Jessica Simpson, lmao!)

I got news for you, if you’re out in public and someone disrespects you and someone else stands up for you… you deserve that. I’ve stepped up for people in all kinds of situations, and it’s part of my identity. You don’t get to change that no different than anyone gets to change yours. Everyone deserves to have someone stand up for them when they can’t or don’t feel strong enough. You’re no exception. Not to mention… it carries weight when an outsider speaks up. Little Miss Barbie isn’t gonna talk her hate speech shit about trans women if she’s getting shit on by someone like me… Same goes for Chad, because Chad’ll find out how much of an alpha dawg he is when my dumbass is shutting him down. You just can’t let your fear hold you back, because for every dipshit bigot that has the nerve to say something rude… there are twice as many people that’ll have your back, and those are the people that matter to you at the end of the day.

 

[Crystal]

I honestly don't think they will care at all. You're just a person buying stuff off a rack. It's the same as any other store really. If you do get measured, they do it over your clothes, so nobody will see your boobs or underwear (at least that's how they did me). Probably they would explain how to do it and give you a tape measure and a fitting room to do it yourself if you preferred.

That would be preferred.

I totally get why you're still uncomfortable, those places also make me uncomfortable, albeit for different reasons. I don't think you will be making the employees uncomfortable though. You're not weird or anything to them, you're just another random customer they'll instantly forget when you leave.

I just don't know if I can get my mind beyond that discomfort. It's stupid, I know, but it's how I feel almost constantly every day.

I end up in Arizona pretty frequently, maybe I'll attempt to drag you to a store with me one day and we can be uncomfortable together.

No chance. No one sees this monster unless they must.

 

[Crystal]

For NOW, but you won’t remain that way. Just a matter of coming out of your shell and becoming comfortable with yourself. I know it’s an awful turn of phrase considering that’s how you formerly described yourself growing up, but it holds truer now than back then… because you missed that early opportunity to do it living your past life unfortunately.

We'll see...

I got news for you, if you’re out in public and someone disrespects you and someone else stands up for you… you deserve that. I’ve stepped up for people in all kinds of situations, and it’s part of my identity. You don’t get to change that no different than anyone gets to change yours. Everyone deserves to have someone stand up for them when they can’t or don’t feel strong enough. You’re no exception. Not to mention… it carries weight when an outsider speaks up. Little Miss Barbie isn’t gonna talk her hate speech shit about trans women if she’s getting shit on by someone like me… Same goes for Chad, because Chad’ll find out how much of an alpha dawg he is when my dumbass is shutting him down.

See, why would I want someone to get confrontational on my account? I'm not worth that, and standing up for me because I won't isn't going to change that. I wouldn't feel good that someone stepped up in a situation like that, I'd feel awful that now they're probably going to jail for assault. Would you really want someone, you or otherwise, to catch a charge for someone who wishes you hadn't stepped in? Even if it doesn't end up there, do you really want to step in for someone who will be upset at you for doing so?

You just can’t let your fear hold you back, because for every dipshit bigot that has the nerve to say something rude…

Welcome to 35 years of my life. Fear has always held me back, and doubt has been my constant companion.

there are twice as many people that’ll have your back, and those are the people that matter to you at the end of the day.

Yes, and I am grateful those people exist, but never to stand up for me. I am not worth it, don't do it.

 

[Kat]

I just don't know if I can get my mind beyond that discomfort. It's stupid, I know, but it's how I feel almost constantly every day.

I worked as a cashier for several years at a very busy Walmart. I don't remember a single person I ever helped based on how they looked. Intoxicated people, yes. Jerks, yes. People who paid in all change, yes. The guy who was convinced he'd spontaneously combust without his wet blanket and handed me a wad of sodden cash, yes. (Only the jerks in a bad way. Although wet money is pretty gross.) I'm sure, just statistically, that I helped some people who were trans. I don't remember a single one of them at all. There are waaay weirder people in this world than you, and retail folks see it all.

I would hate for someone to stand up for me, let people attack me, let them say mean things behind my back. I deserve that and more.

It makes people feel good to stand up for others. I would do it happily for anybody who was insulted for no good reason, and I'd feel awful if I saw that and didn't say anything.

 

[Mark]

See, why would I want someone to get confrontational on my account? I'm not worth that, and standing up for me because I won't isn't going to change that. I wouldn't feel good that someone stepped up in a situation like that, I'd feel awful that now they're probably going to jail for assault. Would you really want someone, you or otherwise, to catch a charge for someone who wishes you hadn't stepped in? Even if it doesn't end up there, do you really want to step in for someone who will be upset at you for doing so?

I would ABSOLUTELY take a charge standing up for someone who, for whatever reason, couldn’t stand up for themselves. What would that say about me as a person if I allowed someone to bully or disrespect someone else and not step in? I’m the guy that has gotten out of a car at a red light and given a dude what for for slapping a woman, or has checked a dude for getting aggressive on someone smaller than himself. I don’t play that shit, and I’m not alone.

Welcome to 35 years of my life. Fear has always held me back, and doubt has been my constant companion.

Yes, and I am grateful those people exist, but never to stand up for me. I am not worth it, don't do it.

Think of it this way… 35 year old Crystal would step up for an 18 year old trans kid if she saw them getting picked on, right? Same concept. You see someone further back down a road you were on, relate, and want to help. Granted, I’m not and have never been in your exact shoes… but I grew up getting picked on until I grew up and stopped taking shit from people. It’s my duty to pass that along and stick up for the people that don’t have it in themselves yet, because I’ve been there. Granted… it was 20+ years ago that I started becoming this way, but that’s 20+ years of experience putting ignorant motherfuckers in check.

 

[Kat]

do you really want to step in for someone who will be upset at you for doing so?

Obviously this isn't ideal, but I'd still do it. If bystanders are silent, the attacker will think their actions are accepted and they're not, and I refuse to let anyone near me believe otherwise. Bigots need to be told that shit is not okay, because they're hearing that it is way too often these days.

 

[Mark]

Obviously this isn't ideal, but I'd still do it. If bystanders are silent, the attacker will think their actions are accepted and they're not, and I refuse to let anyone near me believe that. Bigots need to be told that shit is not okay, because they're hearing that it is way too often these days.

THIS.

C’mon, Crystal, you’re getting the same response from a woman and a man. You’ve gotta see that you have a right to be defended no different than anyone else who doesn’t possess the capabilities of defending themselves or doesn’t want to speak up and cause a scene. There are people like her and I ITCHING for some dumb fuck to say something outta pocket.

 

[Crystal]

I worked as a cashier for several years at a very busy Walmart. I don't remember a single person I ever helped based on how they looked. Intoxicated people, yes. Jerks, yes. People who paid in all change, yes. The guy who was convinced he'd spontaneously combust without his wet blanket and handed me a wad of sodden cash, yes. (Only the jerks in a bad way. Although wet money is pretty gross.) I'm sure, just statistically, that I helped some people who were trans. I don't remember a single one of them at all. There are waaay weirder people in this world than you, and retail folks see it all.

Good, the last thing I would ever want is to be remembered. But yeah, I'm sure weirder people exist, I just know I'm on that very scale.

It makes people feel good to stand up for others. I would do it happily for anybody who was insulted for no good reason, and I'd feel awful if I saw that and didn't say anything.

There are plenty of good reasons to insult me, so I would be upset at anyone that stood up for me.

I would ABSOLUTELY take a charge standing up for someone who, for whatever reason, couldn’t stand up for themselves. What would that say about me as a person if I allowed someone to bully or disrespect someone else and not step in? I’m the guy that has gotten out of a car at a red light and given a dude what for for slapping a woman, or has checked a dude for getting aggressive on someone smaller than himself. I don’t play that shit, and I’m not alone.

Just don't ever do it for me, or anyone you meet like me. I won't thank you for it.

Think of it this way… 35 year old Crystal would step up for an 18 year old trans kid if she saw them getting picked on, right? Same concept. You see someone further back down a road you were on, relate, and want to help. Granted, I’m not and have never been in your exact shoes… but I grew up getting picked on until I grew up and stopped taking shit from people. It’s my duty to pass that along and stick up for the people that don’t have it in themselves yet, because I’ve been there. Granted… it was 20+ years ago that I started becoming this way, but that’s 20+ years of experience putting ignorant motherfuckers in check.

I would get the young trans person out of the situation, I wouldn't confront.

Obviously this isn't ideal, but I'd still do it. If bystanders are silent, the attacker will think their actions are accepted and they're not, and I refuse to let anyone near me believe otherwise. Bigots need to be told that shit is not okay, because they're hearing that it is way too often these days.

It's their world right now, that gets made abundantly clear with every anti-trans or anti-lgbtq law that gets passed.

 

[Crystal]

THIS.

C’mon, Crystal, you’re getting the same response from a woman and a man. You’ve gotta see that you have a right to be defended no different than anyone else who doesn’t possess the capabilities of defending themselves or doesn’t want to speak up and cause a scene. There are people like her and I ITCHING for some dumb fuck to say something outta pocket.

I don't want to be defended. Others, sure, go for it, but not me. I'm not alone there, either...

 

[Mark]

It's their world right now, that gets made abundantly clear with every anti-trans or anti-lgbtq law that gets passed.

It’s OUR world, all of ours, and standing up against people like that is the only way it’s gonna change.

Just don't ever do it for me, or anyone you meet like me. I won't thank you for it.

That’s fine, it’s not something that’s meant to be thanked or congratulated or commended. The people that do it for those reasons don’t do it for the RIGHT reasons.

 

[Crystal]

It’s OUR world, all of ours, and standing up against people like that is the only way it’s gonna change.

Doesn't feel like an our world situation right now...

That’s fine, it’s not something that’s meant to be thanked or congratulated or commended. The people that do it for those reasons don’t do it for the RIGHT reasons.

I get it, but just save it for people that deserve it, that's all.

 

[Mark]

Doesn't feel like an our world situation right now...

Because y’all passive types letting shit slide, honestly. Y’all deserve dignity and respect no different than anyone else, and I get that the world has programmed you to not feel that way… but that doesn’t change the truth in what I said.

I get it, but just save it for people that deserve it, that's all.

Who’s to say I’m not? Who’s to say you’re not one of those people? I’ve respected you for years, that’s not gonna change regardless of your gender now. I’ll be damned if someone disrespects one of my friends.

 

[Crystal]

Who’s to say I’m not? Who’s to say you’re not one of those people?

Who says I am? I sure don't see myself as one of them.

I’ve respected you for years, that’s not gonna change regardless of your gender now. I’ll be damned if someone disrespects one of my friends.

Well more the terrible person than the gender side of things with regards to me.

Edit -- sorry, this has gone way off topic, I'll stop going on about all of this.

 

[shortkut]

I get it, but just save it for people that deserve it, that's all.

Just as other people need to accept how you feel about yourself, you need to accept how others feel. If we tell you that you have positive value to us, then you do. If Mark says he doesn’t like seeing people bullied, then you can’t tell him he is wrong for that.

 

[Mark]

Just as other people need to accept how you feel about yourself, you need to accept how others feel. If we tell you that you have positive value to us, then you do. If Mark says he doesn’t like seeing people bullied, then you can’t tell him he is wrong for that.

Exactly. We live in a world where the main people yapping are the ones that are just doing that and nothing else. That shit falls on deaf ears, until, unfortunately, some straight white dude steps in and mansplains to some ignorant fuck that their shitty treatment of others isn’t respectable or tolerable.

As terrible as it sounds… no one is listening to Becky the Bisexual tell some bigoted dude that he’s a piece of shit for treating people poorly, they’re only receptive to people “like them” putting them in check.

That’s the importance of having allies across the lines speak up for trans people… when “one of your own” is telling you that you’re treating someone like shit, it comes across differently.

 

[Crystal]

Just as other people need to accept how you feel about yourself, you need to accept how others feel. If we tell you that you have positive value to us, then you do. If Mark says he doesn’t like seeing people bullied, then you can’t tell him he is wrong for that.

No one needs to accept me, if they don't that's their right. I'll change my opinion, Mark is right to stand up for others, yes, people need that, I'm only suggesting not to waste time standing up for someone like me. That's all.

Exactly. We live in a world where the main people yapping are the ones that are just doing that and nothing else. That shit falls on deaf ears, until, unfortunately, some straight white dude steps in and mansplains to some ignorant fuck that their shitty treatment of others isn’t respectable or tolerable.

As terrible as it sounds… no one is listening to Becky the Bisexual tell some bigoted dude that he’s a piece of shit for treating people poorly, they’re only receptive to people “like them” putting them in check.

That’s the importance of having allies across the lines speak up for trans people… when “one of your own” is telling you that you’re treating someone like shit, it comes across differently.

Yeah, agreed, allies are definitely important, but it is a little sad we live in a world where ignorant fucks need "a lesson taught" to get the point.

 

[Mark]

No one needs to accept me, if they don't that's their right. I'll change my opinion, Mark is right to stand up for others, yes, people need that, I'm only suggesting not to waste time standing up for someone like me. That's all.

It’s not a matter of accepting you, people don’t *need* to accept anyone for anything, but they also need to know that not everyone is going to accept that. Your existence shouldn’t be something someone needs to “accept”, you’re entitled to the same dignity and respect that everyone else is… and that’s included, but not limited to, having people stand up for you.

Yeah, agreed, allies are definitely important, but it is a little sad we live in a world where ignorant fucks need "a lesson taught" to get the point.

The first person to discover fire had to touch it to realize that they get burnt. Life is all about learning lessons.

 

[Crystal]

It’s not a matter of accepting you, people don’t *need* to accept anyone for anything, but they also need to know that not everyone is going to accept that. Your existence shouldn’t be something someone needs to “accept”, you’re entitled to the same dignity and respect that everyone else is… and that’s included, but not limited to, having people stand up for you.

I suppose.

The first person to discover fire had to touch it to realize that they get burnt. Life is all about learning lessons.

Yeah, but as a collective we know these things, that means we should be teaching basic things like respect at a young age, not to grown ass men and women.

 

[shortkut]

I suppose.

Yeah, but as a collective we know these things, that means we should be teaching basic things like respect at a young age, not to grown ass men and women.

And if they weren’t taught at a young age, just forget it? It’s too late?

 

[Crystal]

And if they weren’t taught at a young age, just forget it? It’s too late?

Well no, I'm not saying that

 

[shortkut]

Well no, I'm not saying that

We don’t have an ideal society, but there are people out there like Mark who try to make it better. Sometimes people need help regardless of what their views are

 

[Crystal]

I agree with that

 

[Mark]

I agree with that

Not to mention… if people don’t know, they can’t learn. Think about where you’d be if you held the same views you held at 18… certainly not where you are now. Most hateful people speak from uneducated points of view, half the hate you see online is from people who’ve never encountered a trans person before and just buy into whatever rhetoric they hear. The other half? They’re split between people like the others here and myself, and indifferent or hateful people that are just set in their ways. The indifferent people don’t matter, because they’re not a threat to anyone and mind their business as they should. The hateful people are that way BECAUSE someone hasn’t put them in check for it, and they remain that way until they either learn better or are taught better.

 

[Crystal]

Not to mention… if people don’t know, they can’t learn. Think about where you’d be if you held the same views you held at 18… certainly not where you are now. Most hateful people speak from uneducated points of view, half the hate you see online is from people who’ve never encountered a trans person before and just buy into whatever rhetoric they hear. The other half? They’re split between people like the others here and myself, and indifferent or hateful people that are just set in their ways. The indifferent people don’t matter, because they’re not a threat to anyone and mind their business as they should. The hateful people are that way BECAUSE someone hasn’t put them in check for it, and they remain that way until they either learn better or are taught better.

You're pretty spot on, minus the hate groups, they know what trans is and still spew their shit. Nothing like an inbox full of pictures of dead trans women to make you feel good about yourself.

That said I don't stop people from hating me, I deserve it. I've taken shit all of my life. Whether it was for being a nerd, for wearing glasses, for being a redhead, for liking video games before it was cool, for being an anime fan, for not being super masculine, for not talking much or just for being me. I attract hate, and that's just how it is. No point trying to stop it.

 

[Raine]

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

 

[Crystal]

Even if you are deserving of hate, are they deserving of being the arbiter? Why? Do they know you? I doubt it. What have they done with their lives beyond being petty, insufferable pricks to deserve such noble stature? Not a god damn thing! They are themselves so miserable and so lacking in redeeming quality that the only thing they can do to remotely feel good about themselves, for even a moment, is to make snide remarks and attempt to tear others down.

But if I warrant it, who cares who administers it? If I deserve it and they need it to feel good about themselves, why not?

And so I in turn deem them unworthy of respect. Unworthy of pity, of sympathy, of compassion - of mercy and of life, in some instances. I do not cede my right to violence to any authority, real or imaginary, and hold myself to a code of my own design. I am not The Beast, but will gladly play the role of Monster in the face of like kind. Such is my nature as guardian, free from the shackles and corrupting influence of self-loathing. Alternatively, just think of me as the local helicopter mom.

Helicopter sister, hon. As much as I wish I was young and vibrant, I'm mostly just older and dumber. Couldn't ask for a better sister, though

Violence isn't an ideal end to any scenario, but it is sometimes necessary. And better to happen to an aggressor than to their target; as Mark said, every time they act out unopposed they become more emboldened. Mayhaps there wouldn't be quite so many lost souls to torment you with, nor our current climate be so inhospitable, had enough allies stood up to past abusers - of women, of minorities, of "lower" classes. Can't change that now, but don't have to accept it continuing either.

Well by all means, get them, maybe they'll learn something.

I am not downplaying your struggles, you understand, but... as someone that has a checkered past, love, none of this is worthy of scorn. Your current situation and your past trauma can not define you forever. If you'd like to be the shy and timid trans girl, that's perfectly alright! People can and will dig it - it's cute. But you gotta own that, and that requires drawing a distinction between the nerdy girl what loves her some video games and anime and the catastrophic thoughts birthed from generalized/social anxiety and other intrusive thoughts. Those aren't you.

I've never been good at knowing what other people want out of me, I've never been able to tell what I want out of myself. Whether it's timid trans girl or troll under the bridge, or just a blight to be kept in a corner somewhere, I've never been good at taking account of others' wants as far as I'm concerned.

The fact of the matter is someone's going to be uncomfortable regardless of where you go. It would've happened if you never started upon your journey, too, just with a likely different set of uneasy people. You dispel that discomfort from yourself by getting out and trying new things - with others in tow, depending on relative safety! - and you dispel it from others by being at ease, letting them see and getting to know you as a person.

Maybe one day...

 

[Jawneh]

I had a realization earlier this week that there a trans guy working at the same place as I did. It was weird though, since I knew he had had top surgery around last December, some of the leads had been talking about trying to remember to address him as he/him, and some other things too that I can't remember at this time. I knew all this and thought it was pretty cool. I just never categorized him as trans until like now. I guess I've been pretty well indoctrinated already.

 

[Crystal]

I had a realization earlier this week that there a trans guy working at the same place as I did. It was weird though, since I knew he had had top surgery around last December, some of the leads had been talking about trying to remember to address him as he/him, and some other things too that I can't remember at this time. I knew all this and thought it was pretty cool. I just never categorized him as trans until like now. I guess I've been pretty well indoctrinated already.

The fact you see him as just a guy probably means the world to him. That's a GOOD thing, even though he'll claim the trans status, being able to just be a guy is exactly what he seeks in life

 

[Jawneh]

The fact you see him as just a guy probably means the world to him. That's a GOOD thing, even though he'll claim the trans status, being able to just be a guy is exactly what he seeks in life

As far as I can tell everyone has been open and accepting of him. I haven't even heard of anyone saying anything behind his back either. A bit surprising considering the area since there are some backasswards people here. But none of those folks need our time.

Also, you take care of you, you. I'm not going to Warp on the same things, but I do second what she's saying. ^^

 

[Crystal]

As far as I can tell everyone has been open and accepting of him. I haven't even heard of anyone saying anything behind his back either. A bit surprising considering the area since there are some backasswards people here. But none of those folks need our time.

Good, I'm glad he's accepted, that's literally the only thing trans people want in life. To be seen as they are, the person they truly are, not the biological mistakes.

Also, you take care of you, you. I'm not going to Warp on the same things, but I do second what she's saying. ^^

Eh, I exist, it's all I can ask for.

 

[Foxy]

@Crystal honey, you don't do anything to stop people who disrespect you because in your mind they are performing a valuable service. You believe you deserve ridicule and hate because that's how you feel about yourself. You never learned how to love and care for yourself. I wish for just one moment you could see yourself as your friends see you. You are one of the most beautiful people I have ever had the privilege to know. Your kindness and generosity to others is on a level most people never get in this life. You have a big and tender heart. All the advice about fighting back against bullies won't help because you are a misery magnet believing you deserve as much torment as you can get. That inner bully that lives in your head is the giant you have to confront and take down. Defend Crystal from the bully that wants to destroy her. I believe in you baby, fight to survive and more - to thrive!

 

[Crystal]

@Crystal honey, you don't do anything to stop people who disrespect you because in your mind they are performing a valuable service. You believe you deserve ridicule and hate because that's how you feel about yourself. You never learned how to love and care for yourself. I wish for just one moment you could see yourself as your friends see you. You are one of the most beautiful people I have ever had the privilege to know. Your kindness and generosity to others is on a level most people never get in this life. You have a big and tender heart. All the advice about fighting back against bullies won't help because you are a misery magnet believing you deserve as much torment as you can get. That inner bully that lives in your head is the giant you have to confront and take down. Defend Crystal from the bully that wants to destroy her. I believe in you baby, fight to survive and more - to thrive!

You always know how to get to me @Foxy, always. I love you, you're an amazing person. I don't know if there's a fix for me, likely not, but thank you for being you (and to everyone else, thank you all for being who you are, trying to talk some sense into this idiot, I truly appreciate it).

 

[Raine]

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

 

[Crystal]

We do, obviously! Don't worry so much about believing in yourself just yet, it's a process. But in the meantime, believe in us - we'll believe in you for you!

The problem with putting others down is that it never lifts you up in kind, y'know? If those people ever pull their heads outta their asses, every additional person they remember having torn down, insulted, hurt - it'll weigh on them that much more. Trust me on that, I have plenty of experience.

Yeah, one day they'll learn, until then let them have an easy target.

Aw!

I feel like I'm on my third lifetime, at least. I need another vacation, stat.

Yeah, some time to relax and unwind...sure sounds nice

Oh is this a thing now? I have found my niche!

Warp speed, it's perfect

 

[Raine]

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.

 

[Crystal]

Nuh-uh!

Not fair, you can't show me cute cats!! So cute!!!

Eventually, for better and worse.

My last two vacations involved laying in bed with copious amounts of painkillers. And not for fun reasons or otherwise related to this topic! ...Although being completely out of it in your own bed can be good, too. Certainly better than continuously being ground down by life and responsibilities that don't have pause buttons, I'll grant you that.

Been there, for sure, and yeah, definitely does pass the time, and not feeling is nice.

All the more reason to attempt using what downtime you do have on things you enjoy though, y'know?

Yeah, perhaps

That could work too! I was thinking more along the lines of...

View attachment 2235

Lol, definitely fits the bill, too

 

[Crystal]

Grr. When your second therapist who deals specifically with the suicide stuff knows you're a trans woman but still sends you notes referring to you as he and him.

 

[Raine]

You need to reply to this thread in order to see this content.