Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

[Crystal]

(No, this isn't the trans rights now thread, this is far more basic than that)

So a couple of times people have come to me in private to check on things and whether or not it's ok for them to post something trans or gender-related, so I want to say it right here, right now -- Say whatever you want to say. Don't hold back, don't feel like you can't say something or that you need my 'permission' to say something. If you know someone that's trans you know we're just plain old people who are trying to feel better in their own skin. Nothing more, nothing less.

But I do understand the apprehension, and I do get that not everyone has talked to, dealt with or understands what it is to be a trans person and so let's do that very thing right now. I won't speak for our other trans members, that's not my place, but they are MORE than welcome to jump in here and share their views with me. I won't tag them out of respect, so if they see this and want to chime in, please do .

So go for it, ask what you want to ask, say what you want to say. No one should feel like they can't speak their mind or can't make jokes because they're uncertain of the response. So whether you want to ask specifics about being trans or you want to know things about the trans perspective, ask it. Ask anything, no barriers here. I'm telling you outright you have carte blanche to ask away. Take full advantage.

What you got?

 

[Scott]

How long did it take for you to realise that you were feeling like the "wrong" gender? Was it a slow process, or bit more of a waking up one day thinking "oh shit, I'm actually a girl"?

 

[Crystal]

How long did it take for you to realise that you were feeling like the "wrong" gender? Was it a slow process, or bit more of a waking up one day thinking "oh shit, I'm actually a girl"?

I figured it out when I was young, very young. I also figured out what it mean to be different, and so I let myself be intimidated into hiding it for years and years. The person that posted on GW was such a repressed version of who I truly was, I think if you read into my posts a bit you could probably see something was off with me. But I went on, day after day, year after year trying to be something I could never be. It's a big part of why I became depressed and, eventually, dysthymic and suicidal. It took me a few suicide attempts, a botched blade attempt and a night spent absolutely catatonic before I finally started searching for help, but Arizona is one of those weird states that is technically blue but is actually very red, and so finding doctors that will work with you that aren't already slammed with patients is hard work. Took me 29 therapy rejections to find my therapist, then a new primary care, then a psychiatrist, then another therapist added to the mix...it's long, long road, but eventually I came to terms with myself, started transitioning and let people in. I know some people harbor it for their entire lives and live a miserable, depressed life because of it, others come out far sooner, and yeah, there are some who jump in without knowing the truth about being trans and regret it later, but that's why I strongly believe in proper mental health care BEFORE transition. I knew, and they immediately knew that I knew, but I still waited a couple of months before finally taking the plunge. If you're not 100% sure, though, don't do it. That's what I'd say to anyone on the fence. You HAVE to know, because it's a serious choice with serious consequences.

 

[Scott]

Definitely sounds like a long and absolutely horrid journey, and I can't even begin to imagine how such a path would feel like. Sadly seems like a very common story that I've heard from other trans people I've met over the years. But I'm glad you've got yourself to a point where you're happy in your own body.

I'd agree with the mental health care. I'd never impinge on the rights of people to transition if that's what they want to do, just, y'know, make sure first.

 

[Crystal]

Definitely sounds like a long and absolutely horrid journey, and I can't even begin to imagine how such a path would feel like. Sadly seems like a very common story that I've heard from other trans people I've met over the years. But I'm glad you've got yourself to a point where you're happy in your own body.

It's unfortunately quite common, the fear and the hiding are something a lot of trans people go through. There are some who know SOMETHING is wrong, but they don't really put two and two together until later on, which is still horrible, living for that long not knowing why you feel the way you feel, but it's rare for someone to feel normal and then just wake up and think "today's a great day to grow breasts!"

I'd agree with the mental health care. I'd never impinge on the rights of people to transition if that's what they want to do, just, y'know, make sure first.

Very much agreed. Like I said, I knew and I knew from a very young age, but I didn't even start that journey until I confirmed it and took the time to truly understand that yes, this is what this is and yes, this is the path I genuinely, truly need to go down.

 

[Quagmire]

I figured it out when I was young, very young.

I've heard this about a lot of people. I know someone whose daughter is trans, Im not sure her age, but maybe around 10 or so and I thought it was kind odd for a kid that age to make that decision. But now there is a girl in my son's class (sadly going to a different school next year as shes one of my favorite of his friends), she started wearing dresses and I just thought it was something a 5 year old was doing because 5 year olds are 5 year olds. Then they sent a message to the parents and had the teachers send one that S is no longer S, but she is now T and a she. I told my wife I thought it was weird in how a kid that young could know, but she said thats what she's heard, people who are trans know from a very young age.

So it's been eye opening for me to know someone, I've had classmates transition, but not anyone I was close with and it was always after high school (granted as tough as things are for trans people now, it I would imagine was worse 20 years ago)

I just dont really get the hubbub people throw about it, let people be themselves and be happy. But the world is filled with a lot of hateful people unfortunately

 

[Crystal]

I've heard this about a lot of people. I know someone whose daughter is trans, Im not sure her age, but maybe around 10 or so and I thought it was kind odd for a kid that age to make that decision. But now there is a girl in my son's class (sadly going to a different school next year as shes one of my favorite of his friends), she started wearing dresses and I just thought it was something a 5 year old was doing because 5 year olds are 5 year olds. Then they sent a message to the parents and had the teachers send one that S is no longer S, but she is now T and a she. I told my wife I thought it was weird in how a kid that young could know, but she said thats what she's heard, people who are trans know from a very young age.

Yeah, that's one of the things that sort of annoys me about the anti-trans push back at the moment, they think kids can't possibly know or understand, kids are just going through a phase. Yes, there will be SOME kids who are going through a phase, but there are unquestionably those of us who just plain know it. I wasn't fortunate enough to have a supportive environment, so I hid, but you look at kids like those and you look at women like Jazz Jennings and you applaud their parents for letting them be who they truly are at a young age. Give them the right to wear what they want, play with whatever toys they want, participate in whatever activities they want and truly live the life they want and need to live. I won't applaud Jazz Jennings' parents for exploiting their daughter for fame, nor allowing her to start and carry on a binge eating habit as a coping mechanism, but for allowing her to be herself, to be able to grow up as close to a normal girl as possible...I respect and yeah, I won't lie, I envy it a little, too. Those kids are going to have a shot at a happy life, but sadly politicians are trying harder and harder to exploit their own ignorance to stop those same kids from being themselves, and I fear for this coming generation. It's bad now because trans has become the new hot-button issue, but if some of these hate laws do get signed into law it'll be impossible trans kids to even explore their identity. Florida passing laws forcing children to de-transition, to appear in public as their birth gender? Kids getting questioned about their gender at sporting events because they have short hair or play just a little bit too well? Women getting harassed in the bathroom for being suspected of being trans when some weren't and all were simply looking to relieve themselves? It's a horrible time we live in, so I fear for those kids.

So it's been eye opening for me to know someone, I've had classmates transition, but not anyone I was close with and it was always after high school (granted as tough as things are for trans people now, it I would imagine was worse 20 years ago)

If I'm honest, and I only have an outside perspective, since I was still hiding back then, but I think it was much easier being trans 20 years ago than it is now. The joking and laughter and dismissing of our identities, sure that was there, but we hadn't become the hot-button issue yet, so trans people were left to be trans. Now? No chance.

I just dont really get the hubbub people throw about it, let people be themselves and be happy. But the world is filled with a lot of hateful people unfortunately

It's the issue of the moment, and sadly education is sorely lacking on this subject matter and misinformation and lies have been allowed to guide lawmakers into terrifying decisions. Absolutely nobodies that would have been laughed out of Washington like Marjorie Taylor-Greene suddenly have backers and political careers on the backs of their hatred and ignorance. It's a sad, sad reality we live in.

 

[Quagmire]

If I'm honest, and I only have an outside perspective, since I was still hiding back then, but I think it was much easier being trans 20 years ago than it is now. The joking and laughter and dismissing of our identities, sure that was there, but we hadn't become the hot-button issue yet, so trans people were left to be trans. Now? No chance.

I think it's a catch 22, there is more hate now it seems because social media and the internet has let hateful people communicate, but there is more support too.

Another thing that can hopefully help others understand, in Kindergarten, I knew I was straight, I mean I didnt know what that meant, but I knew I liked girls. I had crush at that age on one girl, in fact I still remember her name, her name was Abbey

 

[Cole]

let's say you woke up tomorrow and the whole world 100% viewed you as female, no detractors, not even a "transwoman" but just a woman.

is there one "benefit" to being a male thst you would miss?

 

[Ryan!]

let's say you woke up tomorrow and the whole 100% viewed you as female, no detractors, not even a "transwoman" but just a woman.

is there one "benefit" to being a male thst you would miss?

We all know the answer to this question

 

[Crystal]

I think it's a catch 22, there is more hate now it seems because social media and the internet has let hateful people communicate, but there is more support too.

True, and it's nice to see that support so openly, it truly is

Another thing that can hopefully help others understand, in Kindergarten, I knew I was straight, I mean I didnt know what that meant, but I knew I liked girls. I had crush at that age on one girl, in fact I still remember her name, her name was Abbey

Yep, it's the same principle! You knew who and what you were. I knew, as well, just in a different direction. Still liked girls, still do, but it shifts your perspective when you happen to gain greater insight into the female side of life, too.

let's say you woke up tomorrow and the whole world 100% viewed you as female, no detractors, not even a "transwoman" but just a woman.

is there one "benefit" to being a male thst you would miss?

Not one. I know what the general thought is here, and yeah, I get that, but imagine that same convenience was the bane of your existence. The one thing people think about when they see you or learn about your gender identity. The one thing that holds you back and defines what separates you from your "real" counterparts. Suddenly it doesn't seem like such a bad thing to be without, does it?

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Did you legally change your name and if so when did you do it?

My cousin is trans and things "officially" happened slowly from my perspective. Started if by saying "use this nickname (that could be used by both male and female versions of the name) and call be by they" and then eventually became she/her and the female version of her dead name. Legally got it changed recently and is currently waiting on her new passport (why she couldn't come to Canada for a day trip with her sister, me, and my wife yesterday).

Curious if you've noticed that as a similar period for people, or if maybe that's just the way it goes to "make it easier" on the people around you to get there.

 

[Crystal]

Did you legally change your name and if so when did you do it?

I can't afford to, so no, I haven't.

My cousin is trans and things "officially" happened slowly from my perspective. Started if by saying "use this nickname (that could be used by both male and female versions of the name) and call be by they" and then eventually became she/her and the female version of her dead name. Legally got it changed recently and is currently waiting on her new passport (why she couldn't come to Canada for a day trip with her sister, me, and my wife yesterday).

It takes a long time, it's partly for others, yes, but it's also the level of acceptance of self. For a lot of us, and I'm very much in this category, to own our name, legally is a challenge because we suffer from imposter syndrome. For all that hate groups remind you of where you came from biologically, we do FAR worse to ourselves mentally on a daily basis. Its a never-ending thought for someone like me. I love what estrogen has done to me mentally, I'd be a fool if I didn't take joy in certain physical changes, too, but I still FEEL like I see a man in the mirror and it kills me. I can't call myself by real name with conviction until I don't see him anymore. That's a big factor for a fair few of us in changing our names legally

Curious if you've noticed that as a similar period for people, or if maybe that's just the way it goes to "make it easier" on the people around you to get there.

Case by case, honestly

 

[Quagmire]

We all know the answer to this questionView attachment 1074

Haha, my son and I do a lot of hikes with one of my friends and her daughter and this is by far our best advantage. My friend has to either squat against a tree or go to the car and hope there is no one else around and like prop herself up in order to pull her pants down far enough

They make hiking pants for women with a hidden zipper though

Access to This Page Has Been Blocked

 

[shortkut]

Thank you for sharing all the tough details of your life

Question: have you had any surgeries as part of your transition or mainly just hormone therapy?

---

When I saw the title I honestly thought it said trains instead of trans and was fully prepared to post a picture of a random train, but then I read the thread and saw it was a real, deep thread, so here is a picture of a train after transitioning

 

[poj]

I have a trans employee. It caused a few issued when they started as they hadn't officially changed their name and some payroll reports would pick up their dead name. Trans is a protected characteristic so you have to be so careful. The end of month reports didn't like "Ms" as a title combined with "M" as a gender and threw it out as an error and HMRC have to have the legal gender transmitted every month. Why? Why does it matter what is going on in your pants if you pay your taxes like a good citizen?

Just let people be people. I am a member of several Snag tights forums (not quite as random as it sounds) and the acceptance levels there for really anything are phenomenal and how I wish real life was. Everyone can present exactly how they wish to and will receive only support and positivity.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I have a trans employee. It caused a few issued when they started as they hadn't officially changed their name and some payroll reports would pick up their dead name.

Yeah that was something I didn't consider before I had a trans associate transfer into my department. Our schedules are posted on the wall in each department so I figured out how to export the schedule to a different program so I could edit the name before printing and posting. With the limited tech resources at a regional grocery chain, this was not as easy as I thought it would be.

Her old manager would just sharpie out her dead name and hand-write her name above that, but to me that seemed kind of shitty? You're just basically bringing attention to it?

I never told her that was doing that, because I didn't want her to feel like anything other than another employee. Honestly, I hope she didn't even really notice or had to think about it.

 

[Fire Queen]

so, i’m also happy to answer some questions too to take some of the pressure off crystal! in short i got my name change six months after i started hormone therapy in 2019–that was a high priority for me since my legal name shows up in my work’s computer systems very often.

i wrote this the day i “officially” came out (1/10/19!) and that covers a lot of the, why did i realize so late, have i always had those feelings, what made me realize, etc. it’s still a pretty good read i think even if those feelings aren’t as immediate!

lastly with regards to the surgery question my state employee’s insurance has literally been in the middle of litigation about paying for that for years. currently our shitty state treasurer is being forced to by the courts (yay!) but also the makeup of our courts recently changed (boo!) so who knows how long this is gonna last. anyway the surgery i’ve mentioned elsewhere is related to that! i figure no one is interested in the messy details but all i’ll say is that it’s not The Big One

anyway i’m glad everyone i basically grew up with gets to see the best version of me now

 

[Mark]

anyway i’m glad everyone i basically grew up with gets to see the best version of me now

I hope that’s sarcasm. I really hope that’s sarcasm… “most improved member”…

 

[shortkut]

I have a trans employee. It caused a few issued when they started as they hadn't officially changed their name and some payroll reports would pick up their dead name. Trans is a protected characteristic so you have to be so careful. The end of month reports didn't like "Ms" as a title combined with "M" as a gender and threw it out as an error and HMRC have to have the legal gender transmitted every month. Why? Why does it matter what is going on in your pants if you pay your taxes like a good citizen?

Just let people be people. I am a member of several Snag tights forums (not quite as random as it sounds) and the acceptance levels there for really anything are phenomenal and how I wish real life was. Everyone can present exactly how they wish to and will receive only support and positivity.

Our patient charts need to match up with what their insurance company has on file for name, gender, and address. If there is a mismatch, we get rejections. If you have a typo in the spelling of your name, too bad that’s how we have to spell it until you fix it with your insurance provider.

We put pop-up alerts in the chart to identify people who want to be referred to by a different name or gender

 

[Fire Queen]

I hope that’s sarcasm. I really hope that’s sarcasm… “most improved member”…

when i won that i was still a teen lol. had plenty of growing left to do thankfully. now i no longer judge my self-worth by what people online think of me! it’s great!

 

[Crystal]

Thank you for sharing all the tough details of your life

Question: have you had any surgeries as part of your transition or mainly just hormone therapy?

For me it's just hormone therapy at present. I can't afford surgeries and my insurance covers exactly 0% of any gender-affirming surgeries from cosmetic to more...advanced...procedures.

---

When I saw the title I honestly thought it said trains instead of trans and was fully prepared to post a picture of a random train, but then I read the thread and saw it was a real, deep thread, so here is a picture of a train after transitioning

Choo choo!

I have a trans employee. It caused a few issued when they started as they hadn't officially changed their name and some payroll reports would pick up their dead name. Trans is a protected characteristic so you have to be so careful. The end of month reports didn't like "Ms" as a title combined with "M" as a gender and threw it out as an error and HMRC have to have the legal gender transmitted every month. Why? Why does it matter what is going on in your pants if you pay your taxes like a good citizen?

It's quite similar here, as well. Legally I *have* to use my deadname everywhere it's required until I legally change it. So I get daily slaps in the face, and it does hurt to have to see it over and over, but I'm just not at a point where I feel ready (and I admit I'm not financially stable enough, either) to take that plunge. My employer has internal notes about me, but legally they still have to use my deadname, my doctors have notes and preferred names and gender information, but for insurance purposes it's all legal information only. So, sadly, that name haunts you until you're ready to take the plunge, financially and mentally. For some that's quick, and I applaud them so much for being so brave, but it's a case-by-case thing and a hard decision no matter when you make it.

Just let people be people. I am a member of several Snag tights forums (not quite as random as it sounds) and the acceptance levels there for really anything are phenomenal and how I wish real life was. Everyone can present exactly how they wish to and will receive only support and positivity.

Sounds like a lovely place, I'm glad you have such an open, accepting community to be involved in.

Yeah that was something I didn't consider before I had a trans associate transfer into my department. Our schedules are posted on the wall in each department so I figured out how to export the schedule to a different program so I could edit the name before printing and posting. With the limited tech resources at a regional grocery chain, this was not as easy as I thought it would be.

Her old manager would just sharpie out her dead name and hand-write her name above that, but to me that seemed kind of shitty? You're just basically bringing attention to it?

Yeah, it would feel like a bit of a passive aggressive act, honestly. Doing the extra work to edit the name for her is a big step that I'm sure she appreciated!

I never told her that was doing that, because I didn't want her to feel like anything other than another employee. Honestly, I hope she didn't even really notice or had to think about it.

That's perfect, and thank you for being so considerate of her as to treat her like just any other person.

so, i’m also happy to answer some questions too to take some of the pressure off crystal!

in short i got my name change six months after i started hormone therapy in 2019–that was a high priority for me since my legal name shows up in my work’s computer systems very often.

I suppose if I worked in an environment as forward-facing as you I might have been as desperate to change my name, too. That's a very quick change!

i wrote this the day i “officially” came out (1/10/19!) and that covers a lot of the, why did i realize so late, have i always had those feelings, what made me realize, etc. it’s still a pretty good read i think even if those feelings aren’t as immediate!

That's a great read, and speaks to a lot of points that people don't necessarily think of.

lastly with regards to the surgery question my state employee’s insurance has literally been in the middle of litigation about paying for that for years. currently our shitty state treasurer is being forced to by the courts (yay!) but also the makeup of our courts recently changed (boo!) so who knows how long this is gonna last. anyway the surgery i’ve mentioned elsewhere is related to that! i figure no one is interested in the messy details but all i’ll say is that it’s not The Big One

Here it's a flat out no to anything gender-affirming, sadly. I hope that will change in the future.

anyway i’m glad everyone i basically grew up with gets to see the best version of me now

Our patient charts need to match up with what their insurance company has on file for name, gender, and address. If there is a mismatch, we get rejections. If you have a typo in the spelling of your name, too bad that’s how we have to spell it until you fix it with your insurance provider.

We put pop-up alerts in the chart to identify people who want to be referred to by a different name or gender

Sounds very much like my doctor's office, internal notes that help avoid slip-ups, but meeting the legal requirements.

 

[Mark]

when i won that i was still a teen lol. had plenty of growing left to do thankfully. now i no longer judge my self-worth by what people online think of me! it’s great!

I was mainly joking about all the messages I remember getting about you when you were that age. I dunno what all you did back then, but there were quite a few people that were praying I’d nuke your account.

 

[Cole]

I was mainly joking about all the messages I remember getting about you when you were that age. I dunno what all you did back then, but there were quite a few people that were praying I’d nuke your account.

thought for a ssecond you were talking about Crystal and I was like "who the fuck wanted to nuke her back then?"

 

[Mark]

thought for a ssecond you were talking about Crystal and I was like "who the fuck wanted to nuke her back then?"

Oh no, I got her before, too. There’s only one account I never messed with for shits and giggles.. Al.

I don’t think I did anything to her account on GW except maybe a CT and deliberately ignoring blatant advertising, but I definitely pulled some shit on her spinoff and mine since there were times we both had admin access on each other’s sites. Those kinda dumbass pranks never really knew any limits… and still don’t.

 

[Crystal]

thought for a ssecond you were talking about Crystal and I was like "who the fuck wanted to nuke her back then?"

Eh, wouldn't have surprised me, lol.

Oh no, I got her before, too. There’s only one account I never messed with for shits and giggles.. Al.

I don’t think I did anything to her account on GW except maybe a CT and deliberately ignoring blatant advertising, but I definitely pulled some shit on her spinoff and mine since there were times we both had admin access on each other’s sites. Those kinda dumbass pranks never really knew any limits… and still don’t.

I don't remember blatantly advertising...ever...

 

[Mark]

I don't remember blatantly advertising...ever...

Oh, so I must have put that link to PG in your signature by means of the advertising thread you had up. You did it in true veteran former mod fashion, too… because you knew you couldn’t directly link, but you could link to a thread in the advertising forum at GW.

 

[Crystal]

Oh, so I must have put that link to PG in your signature by means of the advertising thread you had up. You did it in true veteran former mod fashion, too… because you knew you couldn’t directly link, but you could link to a thread in the advertising forum at GW.

Technicalities, a gal's best friend

 

[Raine]

But I do understand the apprehension, and I do get that not everyone has talked to, dealt with or understands what it is to be a trans person and so let's do that very thing right now. I won't speak for our other trans members, that's not my place, but they are MORE than welcome to jump in here and share their views with me. I won't tag them out of respect, so if they see this and want to chime in, please do .

I was going to suggest having a dedicated thread for this back when Fool's thread took a complete wrong turn into Narnia, but then that fizzled so I figured we were generally good.

---

To reiterate my two positions: I can only speak for my own experiences that can vary greatly from the other openly trans members, and I'm not interested in changing minds. By which I mean I'll answer questions as they are, as seemingly absurd or contradictory as the answer may wind up being, and offer little or nothing in the way of pushback. Even if it's warranted.

How long did it take for you to realise that you were feeling like the "wrong" gender? Was it a slow process, or bit more of a waking up one day thinking "oh shit, I'm actually a girl"?

Personally, I was around 7. It's never been a function of (not) knowing, but rather accepting. For me, Man was a job title - something you do, not something you are. Gaining enough perspective to consider that things could be different took an immense amount of time on the internet much later in life. Despite being in counseling and therapy for ~20 years, including the entirety of my teens, despite showing very obvious signs of dysphoria, the information was just not there for them, for me, to follow through on.

It wasn't Man straight to "Oh, I'm a woman!" either. For better or worse, because of how I was learning and how I'm mentally wired (read: compartmentalized), a lot of self-reflection, consideration and just plain experimentation was required. I initially stuck with identifying as Gender-Fluid, because ultimately all of my experiences as a male weren't necessarily fake, but over time - with lots and lots of self-reflection - that didn't really seem to fit how I perceived myself, either.

 

[Crystal]

I was going to suggest having a dedicated thread for this back when Fool's thread took a complete wrong turn into Narnia, but then that fizzled so I figured we were generally good.

Yeah, it felt appropriate just because there is obviously some hesitation about the subject and I want to confront it and let people ask what they want to ask, say what they want to say, etc. I don't like people thinking they have to tiptoe around because they might offend me, so let's do this! I figured you and FQ were on a similar wavelength, but I hate to make assumptions when it comes to this particular subject. Same with our other trans member that I know of, I won't name them or point them out, but if they want to make themselves known and join in, they're more than welcome to!

To reiterate my two positions: I can only speak for my own experiences that can vary greatly from the other openly trans members, and I'm not interested in changing minds. By which I mean I'll answer questions as they are, as seemingly absurd or contradictory as the answer may wind up being, and offer little or nothing in the way of pushback. Even if it's warranted.

Perfect, and I appreciate you being willing to chime in. Feel free to ignore any question you don't want to answer, same with @Fire Queen, if it's too far or too awkward, don't answer. I came in expecting some awkward ones, I'll respond to them no matter what

Personally, I was around 7. It's never been a function of (not) knowing, but rather accepting. For me, Man was a job title - something you do, not something you are. Gaining enough perspective to consider that things could be different took an immense amount of time on the internet much later in life. Despite being in counseling and therapy for ~20 years, including the entirety of my teens, despite showing very obvious signs of dysphoria, the information was just not there for them, for me, to follow through on.

I think that's a hugely important distinction right there. It's one thing to know, it's another to embrace it and be ready for it.

It wasn't Man straight to "Oh, I'm a woman!" either. For better or worse, because of how I was learning and how I'm mentally wired (read: compartmentalized), a lot of self-reflection, consideration and just plain experimentation was required. I initially stuck with identifying as Gender-Fluid, because ultimately all of my experiences as a male weren't necessarily fake, but over time - with lots and lots of self-reflection - that didn't really seem to fit how I perceived myself, either.

It's hard to make that final call, to know you're going to embrace that label, embrace all that comes with it, and take on the journey. I'm glad you did, you're a great person and deserve the utmost happiness.

 

[Raine]

Yeah, it felt appropriate just because there is obviously some hesitation about the subject and I want to confront it and let people ask what they want to ask, say what they want to say, etc. I don't like people thinking they have to tiptoe around because they might offend me, so let's do this! I figured you and FQ were on a similar wavelength, but I hate to make assumptions when it comes to this particular subject.

Absolutely, yeah. And I appreciate that. Like we were discussing in the other thread, this forum is a far cry from the public dumpster fire that is Twitter/Reddit/Facebook. Everyone on social media is constantly on guard and defensive because they have to be, and that can never be conducive to proper conversation. Something will always get lost in translation, there will always be bad faith arguments and actors on social media, and everyone's going to walk away from the engagement worse off.

The simple fact that we're all older, and most of us are in the same general age bracket, also helps. We have... experience.

It's hard to make that final call, to know you're going to embrace that label, embrace all that comes with it, and take on the journey. I'm glad you did, you're a great person and deserve the utmost happiness.

Aw!

To steal a line: I am absolutely not a good person. But I've hit a point where I don't dwell on that (as much), accept that I can't undo a lot of the shit I've done, and live to try and make happiness for myself and those around me. If I can make it to the grave without doing anything else that's too stupid, that's a win in my book. I'll do what I can to support whomever I can along the way. I know I probably won't, but, I want to live long enough to see a day where young people can just be themselves. To be granted the freedom to be happy on their own terms, to see a world that chooses to help them even if the hearts of their loved ones won't.

Yeah, that's one of the things that sort of annoys me about the anti-trans push back at the moment, they think kids can't possibly know or understand, kids are just going through a phase. Yes, there will be SOME kids who are going through a phase, but there are unquestionably those of us who just plain know it.

The "it's just a phase" thing really bothers me. Like, that's the entire point? Is Karen going to tell me she didn't experiment with things while growing up? Karen the Hippie didn't participate in drug-fueled orgies? I mean I wasn't there, but I dunno about all that now...

If people have genuinely never questioned anything in their life, particularly as a kid or young adult, I begin to have worries. And I don't mean that in a gender identity or sexual orientation way specifically, either. People question everything, it's part of learning and growing. Dismissing LGBT concerns as being just a phase seems intentionally and maliciously boneheaded. The irony of that being a position held by people that constantly question the government, doctors and experts of all fields is not lost on me, and will never fail to be darkly humorous.

Spoiler: Questions

is there one "benefit" to being a male thst you would miss?

Nothing that I can think of. One of the bigger issues for non-passing trans folk is the feeling that we're constantly sticking out. If we lived in a world that just accepted us as we are, then most or all of that resolves itself.

At that point it's just the usual men vs women stuff, which I can't honestly say I've gotten to experience yet. Being 6'5", for example, I don't get (and probably would still not get) treated the same way some of the ~5'2" ladies do. The guys I work with just assume people with smaller frames can't generate enough force to fully press a clamp into place.

Did you legally change your name and if so when did you do it?

I still go by my birth name everywhere, outside of family and small pockets of friends. I'm technically named after my father, whom it turns out isn't my father, so it's just a thing people use to get my attention. I don't put any value or meaning into it; I'm not particularly bothered being misgendered or deadnamed.

Like Crystal said changing the name, legally, also costs a fair bit. About $1,200 around here, I believe; there are things much higher on the list that need that money first. And I'm originally from Ohio, which is just becoming more and more of a cesspool, so when the time comes to update my name, birth certificate and passport I'm sure it's going to be a grand ol' time.

Question: have you had any surgeries as part of your transition or mainly just hormone therapy?

No surgeries here, insurance won't cover anything not deemed medically necessary. And even then is littered with exceptions. So just knocking things off the list as I can. Greedflation at the grocery is not helping right now.

 

[Crystal]

Absolutely, yeah. And I appreciate that. Like we were discussing in the other thread, this forum is a far cry from the public dumpster fire that is Twitter/Reddit/Facebook. Everyone on social media is constantly on guard and defensive because they have to be, and that can never be conducive to proper conversation. Something will always get lost in translation, there will always be bad faith arguments and actors on social media, and everyone's going to walk away from the engagement worse off.

Very true, social media in general is a clusterfuck, but throw in sensitive topics and it's just an awful experience all around.

The simple fact that we're all older, and most of us are in the same general age bracket, also helps. We have... experience.

Battle tested

Aw!

To steal a line: I am absolutely not a good person. But I've hit a point where I don't dwell on that (as much), accept that I can't undo a lot of the shit I've done, and live to try and make happiness for myself and those around me. If I can make it to the grave without doing anything else that's too stupid, that's a win in my book. I'll do what I can to support whomever I can along the way.

Sounds like a good person to me. I say the same thing, though, I'm well aware I'm not a good person and just try to be what I can be moving forward.

I know I probably won't, but, I want to live long enough to see a day where young people can just be themselves. To be granted the freedom to be happy on their own terms, to see a world that chooses to help them even if the hearts of their loved ones won't.

That would be amazing, definitely. I look at those that came before us and all they had to endure, then I see this generation and the uproar over ignorance that's taking place, if all of this leads to a future where future trans kids can be themselves and everyone can just let them exist...I'd probably cry, lol (and that's another thing, screw you, estrogen, you make me cry at everything, lol!).

The "it's just a phase" thing really bothers me. Like, that's the entire point? Is Karen going to tell me she didn't experiment with things while growing up? Karen the Hippie didn't participate in drug-fueled orgies? I mean I wasn't there, but I dunno about all that now...

Nah, Karen's went to coupon clipping school and minored in manager asking. They never had a life to experiment with.

If people have genuinely never questioned anything in their life, particularly as a kid or young adult, I begin to have worries. And I don't mean that in a gender identity or sexual orientation way specifically, either. People question everything, it's part of learning and growing. Dismissing LGBT concerns as being just a phase seems intentionally and maliciously boneheaded. The irony of that being a position held by people that constantly question the government, doctors and experts of all fields is not lost on me, and will never fail to be darkly humorous.

It's that old saying -- methinks thou doth protest too much. Just how many of those lawmakers, those pillars of the community that "lead" by example have been caught doing the things they rail against or doing despicable, deplorable things?

Spoiler: Questions

Nothing that I can think of. One of the bigger issues for non-passing trans folk is the feeling that we're constantly sticking out. If we lived in a world that just accepted us as we are, then most or all of that resolves itself.

Spoiler: Questions

THIS!! So much this!

At that point it's just the usual men vs women stuff, which I can't honestly say I've gotten to experience yet. Being 6'5", for example, I don't get (and probably would still not get) treated the same way some of the ~5'2" ladies do. The guys I work with just assume people with smaller frames can't generate enough force to fully press a clamp into place.

Yeah, same here, what I wouldn't give to be a slender 5'6" or so. Ah well...

I still go by my birth name everywhere, outside of family and small pockets of friends. I'm technically named after my father, whom it turns out isn't my father, so it's just a thing people use to get my attention. I don't put any value or meaning into it; I'm not particularly bothered being misgendered or deadnamed.

Like Crystal said changing the name, legally, also costs a fair bit. About $1,200 around here, I believe; there are things much higher on the list that need that money first. And I'm originally from Ohio, which is just becoming more and more of a cesspool, so when the time comes to update my name, birth certificate and passport I'm sure it's going to be a grand ol' time.

Yep, it'll be an adventure for sure in the not too distant future.

No surgeries here, insurance won't cover anything not deemed medically necessary. And even then is littered with exceptions. So just knocking things off the list as I can. Greedflation at the grocery is not helping right now.

Truth!

 

[Danny]

I know a number of people who are trans. When I was younger, I didn't understand it, but didn't judge, just let them live their life.

I understand the fear and fragility in coming out, but, as a trans ally, I'm happy to support anyone who needs it, despite being cis.

I work with a couple of trans men also and we get on great. I actually love when they're on shift. Easily some great friends.

On our schedule, their dead names are crossed off and replaced. I haven't asked how they feel about it as I don't think it's right for me to ask.

Keep being excellent @Crystal @Fire Queen and anyone else.

 

[Crystal]

I know a number of people who are trans. When I was younger, I didn't understand it, but didn't judge, just let them live their life.

I understand the fear and fragility in coming out, but, as a trans ally, I'm happy to support anyone who needs it, despite being cis.

Cis or not, an ally is an ally and we need as many as we can get!

I work with a couple of trans men also and we get on great. I actually love when they're on shift. Easily some great friends.

Yep, just good dudes, because that's what they are.

On our schedule, their dead names are crossed off and replaced. I haven't asked how they feel about it as I don't think it's right for me to ask.

Let me offer you a tip -- ask them. It won't hurt them and they'll respect that you care.

Keep being excellent @Crystal @Fire Queen and anyone else.

@Warp

 

[Danny]

I missed Warp's post!

@Warp keep being excellent!

 

[aiat_gamer]

I guess I am lucky since I have a trans friend, and a lesbian married couple also as friends so it feels pretty normal for me. They were pretty open to talking about themselves and their experiences so in the end it was pretty great to know these guys and see how they are, for the lack of a better word, normal people like any others I know, maybe even better in some ways.

 

[Crystal]

I guess I am lucky since I have a trans friend, and a lesbian married couple also as friends so it feels pretty normal for me. They were pretty open to talking about themselves and their experiences so in the end it was pretty great to know these guys and see how they are, for the lack of a better word, normal people like any others I know, maybe even better in some ways.

I'm glad you have them to talk to, that definitely goes a long way towards helping normalize and understand trans and indeed all LGBTQ+ people, since we're absolutely just normal people.

 

[Crystal]

I've posted this elsewhere, twice now I think, lol, but I want to post this here as well, as I think it helps provide SOME insights into the trans mindset. Again, this isn't all trans people, we're all different, but there are enough points in here worth touching on that it feels appropriate to re-post this quote from another forum I'm on. Maybe it helps some understand what trans actually is like for a lot of us, maybe it's just a wall of text everyone skips over. Either way, here it is again:

So I think it's important to say right off the bat that trans is not just putting on clothes and saying we are women or trans men saying they are men. We were born biologically as male in the case of trans women and none of us denies or hides that. We can't change it, and most of us have obvious physical features because of having to endure male puberty. So, yes, we fully acknowledge what we were born as, and that for most of us we will always stick out like a sore thumb, but that is a price we have to pay to feel just a small fraction like the person we are and should have been.

I'm not delusional, I know I can't magically become a biological woman, it's not possible, but with medication and surgery I can get as close as science allows to feeling at home in my own skin. That is what trans is about for 95% of us. We think, act, feel and relate perfectly with women, because we are female-brained people in male bodies, and same for trans men, male brained people in female bodies. Are there some trans people that take it too far, loose sight of who they are to focus on the fantasy? Of course there are, but those are the outliers, and sadly that is more common to see stories about, because for the vast majority of us we just want to live our lives and be ourselves. We don't want to force people to accept us, we don't want to explode at everyone that misgenders us or uses our old name, we don't even want to make people uncomfortable by using public restrooms.or locker rooms. We just want to live, the same as anyone else, we just happen to be trans and happen to need to live as we truly are.

We live every day of our lives hating ourselves, our brains screaming at us we will never be normal, never fit in, we look ridiculous and everyone is going to laugh at as. Then we get people who yell the same things to draw maximum attention to themselves and us. It's a daily struggle to get out of bed and face the world that, invariably, hates us. We see ourselves in the mirror and have a breakdown. It hurts to see our own skin, hurts to be so far removed from who we are.

We're not looking to pretend to be anything, we just want to feel a little bit more comfortable in our skin and not be treated with hatred and disgust because of it.

 

[Rachel]

Uh so would anybody be open to a Go Fund Me of some kind for some of the financial things mentioned here whenever you are ready? I think it's bullshit something like changing your name is too expensive. (Sorry if this was asked already).

On another note, I have a little boy who I have been...wondering about? He is only 4, and I'm not going into details, but there's been a few things he has said or done I have to be very careful not to...I dunno...let my adult interpretations reveal itself too much. Some preschoolers want to be dinosaurs, etc. Being on the parent end can be a hard needle to thread. Just going to let him lead, could be nothing, could be something, I have no idea. Guess I am curious though how the trans folks here acted as a very young age (understanding you probably won't remember).

 

[Fire Queen]

i was six years old tracing my hand in my notebook wishing i could be sailor moon and singing natalie imbruglia soooo

either way i think you’re right to let him lead the way!

 

[Raine]

Yeah, I wouldn't overly worry at age 4. Just let him do what he wants to do. Gender identity clashes really, super hard against society's rigid definition of what men and women are. So for example things like playing with dolls and stuffed animals, with or without action figures, doesn't really indicate much of anything on its own. I mean honestly even having a desire to cross-dress doesn't mean much. Asking questions can't hurt, though. Like why this toy is the favorite, and why? Which super heroes they like/look up to. Stuff like that.

I have a handful of vague, murky memories at best that young. It's specifically the memory of my X-Men board game around age 7 that probably should've tipped me off. 'Cause, I mean, I didn't really idolize Wolverine, Gambit or Cyclops. I was much more interested in Rogue and Storm, and not - in retrospect - really in a crush/attraction kind of way. More in what we would probably call a Create-A-Character type of thing in gaming. I don't think I had a proper sexual interest in women until my early teens, though I could not honestly say whether that's more a function of being twisted up mentally or late development. ...Or just dumb and far too interested in video games. Absolutely can't rule that out.

Had a bit of a Sailor Moon phase too, which obviously I was never going to tell my friends because even at that age kids know they aren't "supposed" to do/watch certain things.

 

[Crystal]

Uh so would anybody be open to a Go Fund Me of some kind for some of the financial things mentioned here whenever you are ready? I think it's bullshit something like changing your name is too expensive. (Sorry if this was asked already).

I wish! The cost of being trans gets ridiculous when you start looking at name changes, ffs, gcs, etc. Its a LOT of money. I couldn't ask anyone to foot the bill for me, though, hopefully one day I'll have savings, I would love to raise money for my fellow trans brothers and sisters, though. Help them through the struggle.

On another note, I have a little boy who I have been...wondering about? He is only 4, and I'm not going into details, but there's been a few things he has said or done I have to be very careful not to...I dunno...let my adult interpretations reveal itself too much. Some preschoolers want to be dinosaurs, etc. Being on the parent end can be a hard needle to thread. Just going to let him lead, could be nothing, could be something, I have no idea. Guess I am curious though how the trans folks here acted as a very young age (understanding you probably won't remember).

You're spot on to let him lead, he knows who he is. IF he turns out to be trans or genderqueer I'm any way, support him, love him. Its a hard road, and when you don't have much support it's a lonely, empty struggle at times. So please support him, he will always be your child, always be your flesh and blood, he just might need to take a less common path to be whoever that beautiful spirit inside truly is.

Yeah, I wouldn't overly worry at age 4. Just let him do what he wants to do. Gender identity clashes really, super hard against society's rigid definition of what men and women are. So for example things like playing with dolls and stuffed animals, with or without action figures, doesn't really indicate much of anything on its own. I mean honestly even having a desire to cross-dress doesn't mean much. Asking questions can't hurt, though. Like why this toy is the favorite, and why? Which super heroes they like/look up to. Stuff like that.

This!

I have a handful of vague, murky memories at best that young. It's specifically the memory of my X-Men board game around age 7 that probably should've tipped me off. 'Cause, I mean, I didn't really idolize Wolverine, Gambit or Cyclops. I was much more interested in Rogue and Storm, and not - in retrospect - really in a crush/attraction kind of way. More in what we would probably call a Create-A-Character type of thing in gaming. I don't think I had a proper sexual interest in women until my early teens, though I could not honestly say whether that's more a function of being twisted up mentally or late development. ...Or just dumb and far too interested in video games. Absolutely can't rule that out.

Rogue ftw, ahem...

Had a bit of a Sailor Moon phase too, which obviously I was never going to tell my friends because even at that age kids know they aren't "supposed" to do/watch certain things.

Ugh, I got caught watching those "wrong" girl shows all the time, took a number of beatings from my brother for that. I hate that logic.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Can I just say that I hate certain shows (and other things) like sailor moon are gendered for who "can" watch them?

It's stupid. If the shit is good, watch it. Pretty sure I watched more sailor moon than shows like spongebob of I'm being honest.

 

[Fire Queen]

just saw this the other day lol

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I was about to ask if PPG was just as stupidly gendered. That's a great show, I watched the hell out of it.

 

[Raine]

Can I just say that I hate certain shows (and other things) like sailor moon are gendered for who "can" watch them?

It's stupid. If the shit is good, watch it. Pretty sure I watched more sailor moon than shows like spongebob of I'm being honest.

Yup, absolutely. It's stupid, juvenile, and plays a huge part in toxic masculinity. There are few thing more obnoxious than someone telling you something is for boys/girls and you can't or shouldn't like it. 'Cause like... at best, they haven't experienced the thing themselves. And at worst, they secretly partake and bully others that are more open about it.

 

[Crystal]

Can I just say that I hate certain shows (and other things) like sailor moon are gendered for who "can" watch them?

It's stupid. If the shit is good, watch it. Pretty sure I watched more sailor moon than shows like spongebob of I'm being honest.

This! Let kids watch whatever they want to watch. Moving to the US helped me there, got away from my brother so I didn't get beaten for watching girl shows, just yelled at by my parents to watch something more appropriate. Little did they know my go-to last show of the night were re-runs of Magic Knight Rayearth I recorded . Fuck you, standards.

View attachment 1144
just saw this the other day lol

Hell yeah, PPG was great, and I knew all of the boys in my class were watching it, even if they never admitted it.

I was about to ask if PPG was just as stupidly gendered. That's a great show, I watched the hell out of it.

Same! Fuck you, Mojo Jojo!

Yup, absolutely. It's stupid, juvenile, and plays a huge part in toxic masculinity. There are few thing more obnoxious than someone telling you something is for boys/girls and you can't or shouldn't like it. 'Cause like... at best, they haven't experienced the thing themselves. And at worst, they secretly partake and bully others that are more open about it.

^^^This!!!

 

[Tirith]

I've always despised the "this is for boys and this is for girls" mentality. I grew up with an older sister, and played with her damn barbies as much as I played with my hot wheels (so what, I ran most of the barbies over....)

I'm guilty of watching "girl shows" or "chick flicks" or whatever you want to label them. I also hate all the bs generic "random guy with shallower depth than a puddle in the sahara gets a harem" anime.

There's a trans dude at my work, he fits in and does his job just as well as any other person. Why degrade him because he didn't want to be a girl?

 

[Crystal]

I've always despised the "this is for boys and this is for girls" mentality. I grew up with an older sister, and played with her damn barbies as much as I played with my hot wheels (so what, I ran most of the barbies over....)

I'm guilty of watching "girl shows" or "chick flicks" or whatever you want to label them. I also hate all the bs generic "random guy with shallower depth than a puddle in the sahara gets a harem" anime.

There's a trans dude at my work, he fits in and does his job just as well as any other person. Why degrade him because he didn't want to be a girl?

Absolutely agreed! A lot of the "boy shows" are outright stupid at times, playing on nonsense and idiocy to get giggles. I want to watch a show that entertains my brain, no matter what side of the fence it supposedly falls on.

I have a couple of trans guy friends, I love them, they're great! I won't out them, but we have one here with us and he's like a brother, I respect the hell out of him.

he didn't want to be a girl?

Essentially yeah, but more he never was one, just got screwed by biology. Too bad body swapping isn't real, lol

 

[Danny]

I fucking loved PPG. It was great.