Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

[canadaguy]

So my son is five and we've been trying to explain these concepts to him in an age appropriate way. My wife has a gay uncle, so that he just sees that as having two uncles and thinks it's really cool. We don't know personally know anyone trans, so that's been a little more abstract in explaining, but it doesn't seem to phase him.

He has asked me how we know we are boys, so I said well we just know, and asked if he feels like he's a boy and he said yes.

 

[Crystal]

So my son is five and we've been trying to explain these concepts to him in an age appropriate way. My wife has a gay uncle, so that he just sees that as having two uncles and thinks it's really cool. We don't know personally know anyone trans, so that's been a little more abstract in explaining, but it doesn't seem to phase him.

Good, I'm glad you've let him see that being gay is just a fraction of who his uncle his, he's still just his uncle.

Trans is harder to explain in age appropriate terms, but it's simply people who were born with a birth defect they are trying to correct, effectively. Right brain, wrong body.

He has asked me how we know we are boys, so I said well we just know, and asked if he feels like he's a boy and he said yes.

Good, let him be who he is, whoever that turns out to be, you're doing great!

 

[Raine]

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[Quagmire]

I have a question about terminology, I think supportive and trans community use opposite of the hateful community which may be why I've found terminology confusing

Does trans man mean a woman who transitioned to a man?

 

[Crystal]

And, I mean, I hate to point this out... but depending on where exactly you live, it's also possible your child is better off not knowing. Or, knowing but not sharing. I would, obviously, love all the GW kiddos to grow up being accepting and loving individuals. But knowing things can easily get them hurt or otherwise make them the targets of bullying. Which is also not good and something yo

This. I hate this, but it's so true

 

[Crystal]

I have a question about terminology, I think supportive and trans community use opposite of the hateful community which may be why I've found terminology confusing

Does trans man mean a woman who transitioned to a man?

Trans man means a man born in a female body, trans woman is a woman born in a male body

 

[Quagmire]

Trans man means a man born in a female body, trans woman is a woman born in a male body

Thanks, kind of what I thought but worded better

 

[canadaguy]

Good, I'm glad you've let him see that being gay is just a fraction of who his uncle his, he's still just his uncle.

Trans is harder to explain in age appropriate terms, but it's simply people who were born with a birth defect they are trying to correct, effectively. Right brain, wrong body.

Good, let him be who he is, whoever that turns out to be, you're doing great!

Yeah I don't think deserve father of the year for teaching my kid to be a decent human being, but I appreciate the vote of confidence. It's fucking sad that the bare freaking minimum is a high water mark these days.

That's a good way to broach it and I will consider using that explanation of I need to. I think part of it is neither my wife or I really have a frame of reference. Like with homosexuality, I have experience with love and sexually attraction etc, so I can see from that side. With trans, like I don't want to sound ignorant or anything, but I don't think I am truly capable of understanding in that way, you know what I mean?

This would probably be my approach, yeah. But even that might be a little out there depending on age. Probably vary child-to-child too.



This is more of a general thing but I think, ultimately, there would be two considerations:

1) As a parent wanting to do right by their child, just encourage your child to be as open and honest with you as possible. Puberty is sort of like a soft deadline, where until that begins there's plenty of time to know and absolutely nothing bad can happen. But, even if it takes longer than that before they realize, well... it's still not the end of the world. Especially so long as they have a supporting and loving family.

2) As an educator with an eye towards raising someone accepting of others, it may simply yield better results to push back against the aforementioned societal norms. Men can wear pink, they can wear dresses and skirts; women don't have to wear certain types or styles of clothes, they don't have to shave if they don't want to. You're allowed to be a male nurse or a female bodybuilder. So on and so forth.

And, I mean, I hate to point this out... but depending on where exactly you live, it's also possible your child is better off not knowing. Or, knowing but not sharing. I would, obviously, love all the GW kiddos to grow up being accepting and loving individuals. But knowing things can easily get them hurt or otherwise make them the targets of bullying. Which is also not good and something you must consider, especially in this current climate.

Luckily I think things are relatively better up here, but we still have a lot of work to do. And the monolith that is American culture will always creep its way here (the good and the bad). I know within our "bubble" that the support and acceptance will be there, and that's all we can control so we will just do as best as we can.

 

[shortkut]

Trans man means a man born in a female body, trans woman is a woman born in a male body

Would an easy way to think of it be:
Trans[itioned to a] man
Trans[itioned to a] woman

That’s how I would think about it

 

[Crystal]

Yeah I don't think deserve father of the year for teaching my kid to be a decent human being, but I appreciate the vote of confidence. It's fucking sad that the bare freaking minimum is a high water mark these days.

From my perspective the bare minimum might as well be running a marathon. You never really understand the level of ignorance and hatred until you experience it first hand, and then when you do...yikes.

That's a good way to broach it and I will consider using that explanation of I need to. I think part of it is neither my wife or I really have a frame of reference. Like with homosexuality, I have experience with love and sexually attraction etc, so I can see from that side. With trans, like I don't want to sound ignorant or anything, but I don't think I am truly capable of understanding in that way, you know what I mean?

Absolutely, but you're on the right track by explaining feeling like a boy. You *know* you're male, you're adjusted and happy as a male and your brain lines up with your body. You *know* your attracted to women, you *know* you're not attracted to men, so you are in a...and forgive me, I hate this term...hetero-normative relationship. Imagine you woke up tomorrow with the exact same brain you have now, you *know* you're a male, but somehow you've woken up stuck in your wife's body. Purge the obvious fun thoughts for a moment, lol, how would you feel knowing that you were stuck in that body for the rest of your life in spite of your brain being male, your interests being male, etc.? That's a little bit of what trans people feel daily. Yes, to varying degrees, but the feeling of being stuck remains.

Luckily I think things are relatively better up here, but we still have a lot of work to do. And the monolith that is American culture will always creep its way here (the good and the bad). I know within our "bubble" that the support and acceptance will be there, and that's all we can control so we will just do as best as we can.

That's all you can ask for, do your best to teach them well and hope the cultural fads don't shift the core values of yourself, your family or those around you.

Would an easy way to think of it be:
Trans[itioned to a] man
Trans[itioned to a] woman

That’s how I would think about it

That's a great way of wording it, for sure. Granted, again, I'm hesitant to say that a trans person transitioned into anything, we simply are a man or a woman, going through transition to try and align body and mind, but your wording is pretty spot on.

 

[A Slightly New Used Server]

Outwardly transitioned to your true self, who happens to be ____

That's how I think of it...but happy to change it to align better with how you all view it yourselves.

 

[Crystal]

Outwardly transitioned to your true self, who happens to be ____

That's how I think of it...but happy to change it to align better with how you all view it yourselves.

Best thing is not to overthink it. It's such a hard subject matter to really explain, and therefore it's pretty hard to understand without experiencing it. So yeah, outwardly transitioned into an man or woman is just fine.

 

[shortkut]

That's a great way of wording it, for sure. Granted, again, I'm hesitant to say that a trans person transitioned into anything, we simply are a man or a woman, going through transition to try and align body and mind, but your wording is pretty spot on.

I was a little hesitant too for that same reason, but for lack of a better way of phrasing it, that’s what I got. It’s a surprisingly complicated thing to explain for such a simple thing

 

[Crystal]

I was a little hesitant too for that same reason, but for lack of a better way of phrasing it, that’s what I got. It’s a surprisingly complicated thing to explain for such a simple thing

Unfortunately, yeah, for someone like me I just think call me whatever you want, but for the broader trans population and the extremely woke people out there, wording becomes the maze that claims many victims.

 

[Zell 17]

Let me ask you this. Lets say one day a medication was developed that changed the brain chemistry and made somebody feel comfortable with the sex they were born with. Do you think you would take it, or is being trans a central part of your identity?

I'm wondering if the trans community is kind of like the deaf community, where once cochlear implants were created that allowed a large portion of them to be able to hear the medical community was treated as if they were committing genocide.

 

[Crystal]

Let me ask you this. Lets say one day a medication was developed that changed the brain chemistry and made somebody feel comfortable with the sex they were born with. Do you think you would take it, or is being trans a central part of your identity?

Dysphoria sucks, if there's a way to get rid of it, I'd look at it. Granted, I am and want to be the woman I always have been. So to suddenly have my brain align as male would be awkward. Also because at this point we're past the proverbial point of no return.

I'm wondering if the trans community is kind of like the deaf community, where once cochlear implants were created that allowed a large portion of them to be able to hear the medical community was treated as if they were committing genocide.

Change is hard to accept, if you suddenly had the key to be the one thing you never though you could be, in that case a hearing person, it's extremely intimidating.

 

[canadaguy]

Change is hard to accept, if you suddenly had the key to be the one thing you never though you could be, in that case a hearing person, it's extremely intimidating

I would only take these jerk pills if they are temporary

 

[Fire Queen]

i always find it hard to entertain really big hypotheticals like that one. not that there's anything wrong with it, it's just a situation i would never encounter. why would i think of it?

that said, one of the first steps in my journey was something posed to me by a friend called the Button Question. the Button Question is, if there was a button and pushing it meant that you would have whatever gender presentation you wanted and everyone would perceive you as such, would you press it with the condition that you could never go back to the way you were before? my answer was yes, but also i was still in the exploratory stage at that point in time. over the nearly 5 years since i realized everything i had going on, my thoughts on that exercise have changed. not my answer, just how i feel about it. it's extremely reductive and doesn't really allow for fluidity, but it's a good way to get your brain out of the rut of "I've Been The Way I Am For So Long I Can Never Do Anything Else"

to give an actual answer to that question, being trans is a central part of my identity, mainly because of the world in which we live. i love to celebrate myself, to meet all the wonderful people in this community, to make new friends and loved ones. i would love for the dysphoria to go away and in a way i am taking pills to do that lol, but if it were easy it wouldn't be worth doing. the easy way out was never changing myself or my habits because i didn't think i was someone worth taking care of. now i do!

 

[Zell 17]

Why are trans women such monster programmers? Seriously if you hear about someone who hacked into the NSA or who wrote the Unreal engine in assembly on the back of a napkin it's always a trans woman.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Why are trans women such monster programmers? Seriously if you hear about someone who hacked into the NSA or who wrote the Unreal engine in assembly on the back of a napkin it's always a trans woman.

We had to develop 1335 h4x0r skills because we're all repressed and lived closed off lives

 

[Crystal]

Yeah, that's about the size of it. Taking something like that now, presumably for all 3 of us, would just be backtracking on any and all progress we've made in easing/curing the dysphoria.

If I had the option before? Most likely not. I am who I am, and I'm already super reluctant to take depression and anxiety medications that mess with my thought processes.

Very much this. Why go backwards when we can go forwards!

 

[Fire Queen]

Why are trans women such monster programmers? Seriously if you hear about someone who hacked into the NSA or who wrote the Unreal engine in assembly on the back of a napkin it's always a trans woman.

the short answer is that autism is a superpower and being transgender is the cool cape

 

[Zell 17]

For FQ, you went to ECU. I know that school pretty well. How was it being transgender there? I feel like it may have been...rough.

 

[Fire Queen]

For FQ, you went to ECU. I know that school pretty well. How was it being transgender there? I feel like it may have been...rough.

funny you say that lol. my dad went to ECU and i grew up an ECU fan (which is probably why you connected ECU to me) but i actually went to your old haunt, UNC-CH! i'll also say the question is kind of a moot point--i didn't realize any of my gender stuff until years after college

fair to say CH woulda been a way chiller place about it than greenville lmao

 

[Zell 17]

funny you say that lol. my dad went to ECU and i grew up an ECU fan (which is probably why you connected ECU to me) but i actually went to your old haunt, UNC-CH! i'll also say the question is kind of a moot point--i didn't realize any of my gender stuff until years after college

fair to say CH woulda been a way chiller place about it than greenville lmao

I could have sworn I read that you wanted to go to Carolina but ended up at ECU. But yeah that's what I mean, Greenville is a different kind of place.

I used to go drink there for football games. The bar environment was exactly like this scene from Pirates of the Caribbean:

 

[Fire Queen]

sounds about right based on the stories my dad told me. and yeah, you might have had it backwards--ECU was my dream school but the scholarship i got was for UNC so i was willing to change my allegiance. way better basketball games for sure! but the first year i was at UNC was the 2010-11 football season from hell so i wasn't really a good luck charm

 

[Crystal]

...so there's something that's been on my mind a bit that I probably should keep private, but since we have a thread for trans things, and we have trans people for trans things, I might as well contribute to the thread instead of just answering and exploit my trans sisters for their experiences @Fire Queen and @Warp -- My doctor's considering adding progesterone to the mix, so far I'm just on estradiol and spironolactone, and I'm ok with the results, but naturally when you've got a man frame...well, nothing is ever good enough. Have either of you been put on progesterone, and if so, have you noticed any differences? Is it worth adding it in?

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Sorry, totally missed this notification!

No worries, it happens

Unfortunately I can't be of much help with this one. I started getting thinning hair fairly young so Finasteride is in the mix, but no Progesterone to date.

That's ok, no worries, it's not something for everyone's journey!

Do you have a good relationship with your doctor/PCP? I presume some of the other diagnoses are involved (we can go over this through Discord if you prefer?),

My doctor's pretty decent, I'm his first trans patient in a few years, so he's been having to read up on things to accommodate and he's been fine with that. Truly amazing. There are other diagnoses in play, but I couldn't tell you specifically which ones would be affecting this decision.

but what were the thoughts or concerns that made them stop at just considering for now?

It's a thought process right now, not sure if he wants to go that route or not. I just want to get others' experiences on it before deciding for myself.

Generally I would, of course, follow the advice from them since they're the most familiar with your health, but if you have access it doesn't hurt to hear a second opinion. Especially for something like this.

Yeah, definitely seeking second opinions, that's for sure.

I know on the internet especially everything's all "doses and experiences vary by person" and that's super frustrating and not helpful. But, yeah, sadly very much the case.

True, very true. Just hoping I can find someone and compare notes, or just get others' thoughts. It worries me fiddling with new hormones, lol.

 

[Fire Queen]

i’ve been on prog for the past few years (in addition to spiro and estradiol) and the benefits have far outweighed the side effects for me. the main things i’ve noticed:

Spoiler

- it really kickstarts your hormonal “cycle”
- it causes bloating sometimes (typically when it’s that time of the month) so i usually just go off it for a week around then like i was taking birth control (which i basically am lol)
- it does help a little with asset growth
- i haven’t ever regretted going on it
- i’ve also never experienced any libido declines but also i’ve been living with my fiancée who is insanely attracted to me for the last three years so there’s that too

oh and semi related i’m currently in the hospital recovering after my own asset growth procedure yesterday! will be getting discharged in a few hours hopefully since all went well

 

[Crystal]

i’ve been on prog for the past few years (in addition to spiro and estradiol) and the benefits have far outweighed the side effects for me. the main things i’ve noticed:

Spoiler

- it really kickstarts your hormonal “cycle”
- it causes bloating sometimes (typically when it’s that time of the month) so i usually just go off it for a week around then like i was taking birth control (which i basically am lol)
- it does help a little with asset growth
- i haven’t ever regretted going on it
- i’ve also never experienced any libido declines but also i’ve been living with my fiancée who is insanely attracted to me for the last three years so there’s that too

Perfect, that actually sounds good!

Spoiler: Crystal goes TMI

-Oh dear, the cycle part doesn't sound so great, already dealing with that monthly already. One of the things I definitely wasn't prepared for, lol, but it's not so bad once you're used to it, so whatever, a little extra oomph won't be too bad!
-Bloating, eh, that's ok, can work with that.
-That's a nice benefit, granted, I got a little lucky in the asset department for some reason and, while they might not look it to the naked eye, I'm contentedly filling out a DD cup as we speak...so...more than that? I guess I'm lucky I have a nasty man frame and can wear them well, lol.
-That's a definite upside, lol, would hate to regret it!
-I'm sure that's definitely a big positive, lol, nice to have that affection

Thanks for sharing, I truly appreciate it

oh and semi related i’m currently in the hospital recovering after my own asset growth procedure yesterday! will be getting discharged in a few hours hopefully since all went well

Yay!! Congratulations

The naughty side of my brain was going to say pics as soon as you're healed up, but yeah, don't go doing that, lol. Big step forward, I hope they look and feel wonderful once they've fully healed, the recovery process won't be fun, but the aftermath...

 

[Tirith]

The naughty side of my brain was going to say pics as soon as you're healed up, but yeah, don't go doing that, lol

It's the internet. Rule is pics or gtfo.

 

[Crystal]

It's the internet. Rule is pics or gtfo.

Ya' know...that's true...

 

[Fire Queen]

well whenever i’m out of this surgical compression bra (should be a few weeks) i will oblige in clothed fashion

 

[Crystal]

well whenever i’m out of this surgical compression bra (should be a few weeks) i will oblige in clothed fashion

No obligation there, hon, just joking around!

 

[Crystal]

(and sorry about the hon, it's reflexive, I can't stop it lol)

 

[Tirith]

(and sorry about the hon, it's reflexive, I can't stop it lol)

Uh, you're not from Baltimore.

 

[Crystal]

Uh, you're not from Baltimore.

(point of clarification, no, I'm not, but I grew up around a LOT of women that used the word hun, and for whatever reason it rubbed off on me as hon and it just comes out, lol)

 

[Tirith]

Gonna find the rest of that dollar for me?

 

[Crystal]

 

[Kat]

Would an easy way to think of it be:
Trans[itioned to a] man
Trans[itioned to a] woman

That’s how I would think about it

The way I think of it is if someone identifies as a woman, they aren't going to call themselves a man. So a trans woman is a woman who is also trans.

Imagine you woke up tomorrow with the exact same brain you have now, you *know* you're a male, but somehow you've woken up stuck in your wife's body. Purge the obvious fun thoughts for a moment, lol, how would you feel knowing that you were stuck in that body for the rest of your life in spite of your brain being male, your interests being male, etc.?

This is interesting to me. I've always had stereotypically male interests, to the point where I was a tomboy as a kid and mostly hung out with boys and frequently wished I'd been born a boy so I could fit in better. Even today, I have to make a point to befriend women because it doesn't come naturally to me. However if you actually put my brain into a male body, I do NOT think I'd be happy or comfortable.

I'm not totally sure where I'm going with this. I guess as a question to you, if you were suddenly transported to a world where gender stereotypes/expected behaviors were swapped, would you still feel like you're a woman or would that make you happy with your current body? We're assuming only societal changes in this hypothetical, no physical changes to people based on their gender. It's not a perfect hypothetical because our hormones seem to drive a lot of differences between genders. Hopefully you can see what I'm trying to get at.

For some context, I'm thinking of people who are anti trans on the basis of "I don't want my kids to get surgery on their genitals just because they don't identify with society's gender stereotypes". I feel like that's a ridiculous fear, nobody is going to do that, but you're not the first I've heard some variation of "I've always had a lot of interests stereotypical of the opposite sex" thing from. I'm guessing that's just a piece of it and not the main driver, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Crystal]

The way I think of it is if someone identifies as a woman, they aren't going to call themselves a man. So a trans woman is a woman who is also trans.

Accurate, completely.

This is interesting to me. I've always had stereotypically male interests, to the point where I was a tomboy as a kid and mostly hung out with boys and frequently wished I'd been born a boy so I could fit in better. Even today, I have to make a point to befriend women because it doesn't come naturally to me. However if you actually put my brain into a male body, I do NOT think I'd be happy or comfortable.

I'm not totally sure where I'm going with this. I guess as a question to you, if you were suddenly transported to a world where gender stereotypes/expected behaviors were swapped, would you still feel like you're a woman or would that make you happy with your current body? We're assuming only societal changes in this hypothetical, no physical changes to people based on their gender. It's not a perfect hypothetical because our hormones seem to drive a lot of differences between genders. Hopefully you can see what I'm trying to get at.

For some context, I'm thinking of people who are anti trans on the basis of "I don't want my kids to get surgery on their genitals just because they don't identify with society's gender stereotypes". I feel like that's a ridiculous fear, nobody is going to do that, but you're not the first I've heard some variation of "I've always had a lot of interests stereotypical of the opposite sex" thing from. I'm guessing that's just a piece of it and not the main driver, but feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

So it's important to note that no, thinking along the lines of purely interests, that's not enough to say you are or are not trans, as you said, your interests lean more male-oriented, but you wouldn't be comfortable in a male body, so you wouldn't be a good choice for going on hormones and transitioning. Male interest != male mind. My sister is 100% a tomboy, always has been, she's a lesbian in a lesbian relationship, her partner is definitely the "girl" of the relationship, but just because my sister prefers guys clothes, has a keen interest in her truck and off-roading and has never once done anything remotely feminine doesn't mean she'd fit the trans bill, she's just a woman who has male interests. A point of clarification there, too, male interest meaning male-typical, not male-exclusive.

For your hypothetical situation, no, I would still not be happy in the body I'm in, being trans is more than activities and interests. There's a deep-seated discomfort for me in who I am, who I was born as. My body is wrong, totally, and I NEED to fix it so I can feel more at-home in my own skin. I'll never be fully who I need to be, but I absolutely 100% have to take the steps I'm taking to find any sort of comfort in life. Not all trans people have my level of dysphoria, but the feeling of needing the change is a pretty common thread.

As for anti-trans people who feel sheltering their children from their ability to be themselves will somehow not make them trans, sorry, that's just a fallacy. Even if they're forced to endure puberty in the wrong direction and have to wait until adulthood, that trans identity will come to the forefront eventually, as evidenced here, and it will force that child (now adult) into a decision about themselves, one way or another. Self-destructive or the long and hard journey forward.

 

[Kat]

Cool, it sounds like my thought process was correct then. Thanks for the confirmation.

As for anti-trans people who feel sheltering their children from their ability to be themselves will somehow not make them trans, sorry, that's just a fallacy.

Agreed! Nobody is trans for kicks and giggles or purely because they just heard about it. It's such a silly thing to even suggest.

I wonder what my childhood would've been like if the idea that your gender doesn't necessarily match your assigned sex had been more accepted. I suspect I would've "tried on" being a boy and realized SO MUCH sooner that the problem was society and not my body. It took me a long time to embrace my feminine side because I felt like I couldn't have my interests and also be feminine. It would've been nice to explore that more freely as a kid. I know the situation is still not great, but I'm glad more kids are able to present as trans/gender fluid/non binary/etc. Only good things come from being able to figure out your identity, even for cis people. It's too bad so many people can't see that.

 

[Crystal]

Cool, it sounds like my thought process was correct then. Thanks for the confirmation.

Of course, always happy to help

Agreed! Nobody is trans for kicks and giggles or purely because they just heard about it. It's such a silly thing to even suggest.

Yeah, I wouldn't wish being trans on anyone, it's a long and very difficult journey with risks you have to go into transitioning knowing or you could find yourself in a horrible position. Regret is a real thing for those who enter the journey without 100% certainty and find out that, no, they really aren't trans. But more than that, to even claim the label trans opens you up immediately to a certain type of people you don't want to meet. I mentioned before about the hate group, they're no joke! They seem like a nuisance at first, but their persistence grinds you down. You can only be forwarded so many pictures or videos of trans women being beaten or murdered before it gets to you. Anyway, back to the point, it's imperative you are certain, as I was, before starting the journey. It isn't fun and it isn't easy. So the thought anyone would do it just because is laughable and a slap in the face.

I wonder what my childhood would've been like if the idea that your gender doesn't necessarily match your assigned sex had been more accepted. I suspect I would've "tried on" being a boy and realized SO MUCH sooner that the problem was society and not my body.

Girls are constantly told what's wrong with them is their body, it makes sense to default to physical possibilities rather than realizing it's just those same bastards using that same tired ideology that made you feel less feminine for your interests and invalidates my womanhood because I'll never be able to look like the woman I truly am. They're assholes and they're wrong. Yes, you would have found yourself faster, imo, and likely learned to embrace your feminine side much easier. Male interests and female interests can 100% coexist within someone. Long may they do so! You're you, you're amazing, and you're beautiful for being you.

It took me a long time to embrace my feminine side because I felt like I couldn't have my interests and also be feminine. It would've been nice to explore that more freely as a kid. I know the situation is still not great, but I'm glad more kids are able to present as trans/gender fluid/non binary/etc. Only good things come from being able to figure out your identity, even for cis people. It's too bad so many people can't see that.

One day education will help even theost ignorant. One day...

 

[Crystal]

Another reason anti-trans rhetoric is hurtful, when it targets cisgender women who look a little more masculine

Cis sportswoman shares constant anti-trans attacks on her gender identity

A cisgender sportswoman has used her TikTok to share the constant anti-trans attacks she faces from trolls who believe she’s a man.

www.thepinknews.com

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

If you'll forgive me for juuust a moment... gonna take this mask off here, and...

All attacks against trans women are attacks against cis women. Zero exceptions. Ever.

Okay, mask is back on.

I genuinely mean that in a constructive way, though. Like I was telling Mark about his daughter, uh... somewhere... in one thread or another, people love telling women both what they should be and what they can't be. Attacks on trans women is just another facet of that if you pin their arguments down, strip away every conceivable facet of their hysteria and pick out whatever kernels of truth may (or may not!) remain. Unfortunately, as we see time and time again, women themselves (collectively, cis and trans) are not only not immune to it but sometimes the biggest sources of it since social circles, especially younger ones, have a tendency to split along (perceived) gender lines. See also: FUCK YOU JOANNE YOU PIEC--mrrgrgr?!

Very accurate, women are told they're effectively only as good as their appearance, that their appearance is for others and not themselves, and sadly that permeates into the mindsets of you girls and informs their lives in purely negative ways. Its fine to want to look good, I'd give anything to look half as good as the women here that have shared their pictures, they're all amazing! But I nor they are defined by those pictures. They're more than their skin, more than their clothes, more than their various features. It's awful that we live in a time where women are instantly judged based on appearance and it takes considerable effort to change people's minds.

Anyway.

A very, very close friend of my family, whom we call our Aunt, was a heavy smoker for some 30-odd years and has a voice raspy and deep enough to challenge most "average" men. She's no less a woman for that.

My (soon-to-be) sister-in-law got super dunked on by hormones during her three pregnancies, and while I've never seen it my partner tells me she's capable of growing a pretty good amount of facial hair (specifically, more than I was/am) if she doesn't keep on top of it. Again, she's no less of a woman for that.

Damn right, they're as much women as any of us. I already mentioned my sister, she's an incredible woman, just a massive tomboy as well. Still a woman, and I'm proud to be her sibling.

I know I'm preaching to the choir here, I'm just sayin'. I read things and my fingers want to move.

Go for it, move those fingers!

All the +1s.

So, so many trans people lose their lives ("take" is not appropriate here, but that would be the common phrasing) at every stage of the process. Not really because they're trans, but because society and especially those close to them can't or won't accept them for who they are. Hiding information from them doesn't help them, doesn't help their families, doesn't help society. It just causes more pain and hurt and suffering. Causes so many beautiful lives to be ground away and discarded. For no fucking reason! It literally does not fucking matter to anyone else?!

Yeah, the pressure builds for everyone, it's the direction you take that matters. I'm still suicidal, but that's tied to other things, I started to transition and felt a massive weight lifted. We all face those moments.

And, yes. I have to say this again, unfortunately. Even if anti-trans people think that's fine because those people are abnormal or defective or fucking whatever, and it's fine if they kill themselves because [fill in the blank I'm not typing this one] and they're only hurting themselves and everyone's better off? They. Are. Fucking. Wrong. On every point.

Correct!

We're not monsters that were going to do it at some point anyway, I think ...I hope...?, but people like me exist. We're just not wired the same way. We hurt other people when we experience ego death/complete despair/the end/whatever you'd like to call it. No one, including that individual, knows it until it happens. Actually that person knows it later than those around them, because for a period of time that person just doesn't exist anymore. And then it's too late. Mental well-being affects everyone.

Yeah, that's a scary, scary prospect. I hope there's never a time it creeps up on you, though as someone with suicidal ideation, I did have a dark humour moment just now where I was going to joke about me being there when it does, but I'd better not go there.

...I mean, yes, obviously I don't want fucking Fox News, One America, et al knowing that. But it's important. I cannot ever possibly begin to stress how fucking important.

Truth.

On this note, I'm the oldest of us three. I'm not that much older than Crystal, but Marina is reasonably younger than us both and the furthest along her journey. I could not possibly be happier for her, and I wish and hope every day that progress like that continues.

Absolutely!! I wish her nothing but the best and I want her journey to be smooth and successful. A mild touch of envy on my part for her progress, but nothing but love . For Marina and for you, too!

I'll not finish the exact thought even though I'm super up in my feels right now. But I do hope the current bullshit blows over quickly and work can begin to restore what has been lost, so that forward progress can continue.

Here's hoping...

 

[Markumas]

I generally don’t care. You be you. The thing that gets me is when you see videos of people going nuts because someone misgendered them, or they’re one of the 50+ genders and you got the pronouns wrong. There’s just no need.

 

[Crystal]

I generally don’t care. You be you.

Perfect, I will be

I'm not here to convert the world or make everyone love trans people, I want people to be free to object if they do or to not give a damn. It's everyone's right to think what they want!

The thing that gets me is when you see videos of people going nuts because someone misgendered them,

In those instances it's a lot to do with pent up frustration from people doing it deliberately. There are a lot of people out there who like to remind trans women of their status as trans women or remind them of where they came from. The reality is we know, constantly, who and what we are, a lot of us have it in our brain we'll never be whole, never pass, never be who we need to be, so to have it reinforced by people being cruel hurts, which means it builds up, so when that one person does it innocently, it just comes out. Its not right and it's not good, but I do understand why it happens.

or they’re one of the 50+ genders and you got the pronouns wrong. There’s just no need.

This part, I'm honestly lost as to what some of these identities are or what they mean, or how to refer to them. Its a minefield and I get everyone being frustrated with it. I don't know what non-binary is, it confuses me.