Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

[MC74]

 

[Kat]

Some middle ground would probably be the ideal! Like my mother is 5'9", which is just entering the "officially tall" slider, and my partner is between 6' and 6'1". Meanwhile my dumb ass is over here at 6'5", 'bout 21" shoulder to shoulder, and honestly could do without some of it.

Fair! I don't want to be that tall. I've seen how often really tall people run into things, and I like having leg room on airplanes and being able to curl up in a chair.

I have to jump just to see into top cupboards though, and actually reaching anything in them requires climbing on the counter. :

I'd take a few inches but not more than that.

There are many trans women who very much prefer women, and are in relationships with them. Yet, that seems to be a foreign concept to grasp for some....

I don't think I know a single straight trans person, lol.

You probably make her feel much better about her height, honestly. I like being around taller people (you silly people!) because I feel less conspicuous by comparison

I kinda like being in Thailand because I can see over crowds, even in flats. It's wild!

 

[Crystal]

I kinda like being in Thailand because I can see over crowds, even in flats. It's wild!

Yeah, I can absolutely see how you'd feel like that, lol. A chance to feel tall!

 

[MC74]

I don't think I know a single straight trans person, lol.

Every trans woman I've known or met is a lesbian.

 

[Crystal]

I know several straight trans women, but yeah, a lot of us are lesbians, lol

 

[MC74]

I know several straight trans women, but yeah, a lot of us are lesbians, lol

At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy that matters most. Never mind what anyone else thinks, do what makes you happy.

 

[Crystal]

At the end of the day, it's what makes you happy that matters most. Never mind what anyone else thinks, do what makes you happy.

I know what makes me happy.

 

[Raine]

I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not.



Completely unrelated, and also not actually relevant to the trans experience yet, but saw this crop up earlier:

Article:

Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Two abortion-inducing drugs could soon be reclassified as controlled and dangerous substances in Louisiana under a first-of-its-kind bill that received final legislative passage Thursday and is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas. Numerous doctors, meanwhile, have said it will make it harder for them to prescribe the medicines, which they also use for other important reproductive health care needs.

Passage of the bill comes as both abortion rights advocates and abortion opponents await a final decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on an effort to restrict access to mifepristone. The justices did not appear ready to limit access to the drug on the day they heard arguments.

The GOP-dominated Legislature’s push to reclassify mifepristone and misoprostol could possibly open the door for other Republican states with abortion bans that are seeking tighter restrictions on the drugs. Louisiana currently has a near-total abortion ban in place, applying both to surgical and medical abortions.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-pills-louisiana-legislature-controlled-substance-06ea3e8df86b72b473efe8fc71054ddf

Article:

In addition to inducing abortions, mifepristone and misoprostol have other common uses, such as treating miscarriages, inducing labor and stopping hemorrhaging.

Mifepristone was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2000 after federal regulators deemed it safe and effective for ending early pregnancies. It’s used in combination with misoprostol, which the FDA has separately approved to treat stomach ulcers.

 

[MC74]

I know what makes me happy.

Likewise.

 

[MC74]

I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not.



Completely unrelated, and also not actually relevant to the trans experience yet, but saw this crop up earlier:

Article:

Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Two abortion-inducing drugs could soon be reclassified as controlled and dangerous substances in Louisiana under a first-of-its-kind bill that received final legislative passage Thursday and is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas. Numerous doctors, meanwhile, have said it will make it harder for them to prescribe the medicines, which they also use for other important reproductive health care needs.

Passage of the bill comes as both abortion rights advocates and abortion opponents await a final decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on an effort to restrict access to mifepristone. The justices did not appear ready to limit access to the drug on the day they heard arguments.

The GOP-dominated Legislature’s push to reclassify mifepristone and misoprostol could possibly open the door for other Republican states with abortion bans that are seeking tighter restrictions on the drugs. Louisiana currently has a near-total abortion ban in place, applying both to surgical and medical abortions.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-pills-louisiana-legislature-controlled-substance-06ea3e8df86b72b473efe8fc71054ddf

Article:

In addition to inducing abortions, mifepristone and misoprostol have other common uses, such as treating miscarriages, inducing labor and stopping hemorrhaging.

Mifepristone was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2000 after federal regulators deemed it safe and effective for ending early pregnancies. It’s used in combination with misoprostol, which the FDA has separately approved to treat stomach ulcers.

I fully expect them to take the same approach with HRT. Just you watch.

 

[Crystal]

Agreed, 100%

 

[Kat]

I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not.

Hmm, interesting. I know a lot of lesbians from my polycule, and a few happen to be trans, so that's why it's skewed for me personally. We're also all nerds though (and, of course, I know you ladies from this nerdy community).

Article:

Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/abortion-pills-louisiana-legislature-controlled-substance-06ea3e8df86b72b473efe8fc71054ddf

To expand on this bit: the case they're talking about is a man who slipped his pregnant partner an abortion pill without her knowledge or consent, which is already illegal. I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you this, but this is just an excuse to further restrict abortion access. If they actually cared about that problem, they'd instead increase resources for domestic violence victims, make it easier for pregnant women to get divorced (many states effectively don't allow it), and increase safety nets so women don't stay in unsafe relationships for financial reasons. But they won't do any of that, even though it would significantly benefit both mothers and children.

 

[Crystal]

Hmm, interesting. I know a lot of lesbians from my polycule, and a few happen to be trans, so that's why it's skewed for me personally. We're also all nerds though (and, of course, I know you ladies from this nerdy community).

Hmm...so we're...lesbinerds...I'll take it

 

[Raine]

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[MC74]

Yup! Which, as the AP article notes, there have been a handful of other cases beyond the one from Texas that Louisiana is citing. But none of those happened in Louisiana, that's a handful over a 15-year period, and as you say it's already a crime to do this!

As we all know, locks only keep out innocent people. Federal Schedule IVs aren't hard to come by if you want them; that's shit like Valium or Xanax. And there are worse things, like Rohypnol, that are the same classification and have never been approved in the US but are still extraordinarily common - to the point that multiple products have come to market (and many more that have not, like the nail polish) to help women/people protect themselves. 'Cause lord fucking knows the people in power are unwilling and incapable. So if it literally will not stop, in the eyes of Conservatives, baby killers, then what is the point of the ban if not the glaringly obvious?


The entire precedent that could be set by this is fucked, though. Non-medical experts making healthcare decisions based their asinine ideology is not going to end well if this is 1) not immediately challenged and shut down and 2) permitted to spread to half (or more!) of the country. That article Mark posted from the heavy metal website? Guarantee you that and the hack job Cass report would be used to ban HRT - invariably for both trans and cis individuals. "The treatment cannot be worse than the disease" mouth-breathing motherfuckers would absolutely try their hand at banning vaccines. So on, so forth...

Healthcare in the US is already beyond repair and redemption. Something like this running amok would just finish kneecapping the system and perhaps cause everything to collapse in on itself.

Oh, without doubt. Conservatives are going to use that as ammunition in their efforts to completely shut down trans healthcare, with the goal of replacing it with conversion therapy (which is what's currently happening in the red states as we speak).

 

[Crystal]

Keeping the positive stories going

 

[Kat]

It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.

 

[Crystal]

It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.

Absolutely agreed, I hope that co-worker has an entirely new view on trans people. She's just a normal human being who is trying to live her life as herself, nothing more.

 

[Quagmire]

It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.

I go both ways on this, I mean I hope they do change their views, but it does bug me when someone has to have something directly affect them before they change their stance on something like homosexuality, trans, women's rights & safety, etc

Like I get when something directly happens it does affect your view on things, but we're talking about basic empathy for other people that are in no shape or way affecting your life

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Fuck people. Still glad they had a day out, but fuck people...

 

[Raine]

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[MC74]

Ridiculous that they were denied entry over this, but unfortunately it's a very common problem with trans folk. I've heard many stories of people being refused service because of issues with their ID.

 

[Kat]

Fuck people. Still glad they had a day out, but fuck people...

View attachment 16196

Ugh. I'm not even trans and I run into this kind of thing occasionally when I put Kat into a name field. Yes, my license says Katherine, but the last name is the same, and it's obviously the same person. Tons of people aren't comfortable with their legal names for all sorts of reasons. If a company needs a legal name, they should explicitly say so, and ideally give them a place to put their preferred name.

Especially when it's something like this, where there's no real harm if someone occasionally gets away with using a pass that isn't theirs. It's ridiculous they're checking legal IDs at all instead of just going by the provided picture IMO. My expensive gym has less stringent security.

As said, it's 2024. There's no excuse for this.

 

[Crystal]

Ugh. I'm not even trans and I run into this kind of thing occasionally when I put Kat into a name field. Yes, my license says Katherine, but the last name is the same, and it's obviously the same person. Tons of people aren't comfortable with their legal names for all sorts of reasons. If a company needs a legal name, they should explicitly say so, and ideally give them a place to put their preferred name.

I completely agree, there should 100% be a Preferred Name space for any document or identification requiring a legal name. I hate being called by my...that other name...at any point. I'm not that name, and it sucks to hear it. Same for anyone that doesn't like their legal name, it's something lots of people deal with, trans or not. To get denied access to a damn movie theatre for something like this?! Absolute disgrace, as much as I miss the cinema, I hope any that employ this practice go under.

Especially when it's something like this, where there's no real harm if someone occasionally gets away with using a pass that isn't theirs. It's ridiculous they're checking legal IDs at all instead of just going by the provided picture IMO. My expensive gym has less stringent security.

As said, it's 2024. There's no excuse for this.

This. Very, very, very much this. Disgusting that we're at this point. Is this how we're going to police the bathrooms and locker rooms next? Check IDs?

 

[Kat]

I completely agree, there should 100% be a Preferred Name space for any document or identification requiring a legal name. I hate being called by my...that other name...at any point. I'm not that name, and it sucks to hear it. Same for anyone that doesn't like their legal name, it's something lots of people deal with, trans or not.

What's stopping you from changing your legal name? Cost? You don't want your parents to find out?

Disgusting that we're at this point.

I wouldn't say it's disgusting, it's not done out of malice, just laziness and lack of foresight. They probably started with the picture, but the passes were used more than expected (I'm assuming this is a monthly pass where you can buy as many tickets as you want or similar), so AMC was losing money. They figure people are sharing passes, a lot of people look alike, and confrontational people will insist it's them even when it isn't. So they figure they'll enforce it by comparing the name against an ID. Sharing a pass is one thing, but most people won't also loan out their ID. It becomes a zero tolerance policy due to the aforementioned confrontational asshole thieves who ruin things for everyone in all retail environments and managers who will always cave to said assholes (if you've ever worked at a large chain, you probably know what I mean).

Obviously the person who posted that isn't one of those people trying to pull something over on the theatre, and it's easy to tell that, but it's also easiest to say no to people being calm and polite.

... On second thought, I may have talked myself into agreeing with you.

 

[Crystal]

What's stopping you from changing your legal name? Cost? You don't want your parents to find out?

Like all things, cost is a massive factor. It's way beyond me.

I wouldn't say it's disgusting, it's not done out of malice, just laziness and lack of foresight. They probably started with the picture, but the passes were used more than expected (I'm assuming this is a monthly pass where you can buy as many tickets as you want or similar), so AMC was losing money. They figure people are sharing passes, a lot of people look alike, and confrontational people will insist it's them even when it isn't. So they figure they'll enforce it by comparing the name against an ID. Sharing a pass is one thing, but most people won't also loan out their ID. It becomes a zero tolerance policy due to the aforementioned confrontational asshole thieves who ruin things for everyone in all retail environments and managers who will always cave to said assholes (if you've ever worked at a large chain, you probably know what I mean).

Obviously the person who posted that isn't one of those people trying to pull something over on the theatre, and it's easy to tell that, but it's also easiest to say no to people being calm and polite.

... On second thought, I may have talked myself into agreeing with you.

No, I completely understand those who abuse the system, but in a situation where you can see person a = person a, but trans, you can easily let that slide and let them in. It's who they were, even if it isn't who they are.

I'm sticking with disgusting, they had every chance to do the right thing and didn't.

 

[MC74]

Like all things, cost is a massive factor. It's way beyond me.

Outside of your case, I believe there are laws in some states trying to prevent people from changing their gender marker on their IDs. Not sure how it varies across state-to-state, but I can imagine that being a barrier for trans people living in the states that bar that.

 

[Crystal]

Outside of your case, I believe there are laws in some states trying to prevent people from changing their gender marker on their IDs. Not sure how it varies across state-to-state, but I can imagine that being a barrier for trans people living in the states that bar that.

It is definitely a thing in a lot of states. Here it's just prohibitively expensive.

 

[MC74]

It is definitely a thing in a lot of states. Here it's just prohibitively expensive.

What about legally changing their names though? I'm wondering about that.

 

[Crystal]

What about legally changing their names though? I'm wondering about that.

Same, it's about $400 here

 

[Crystal]

Sorry, I'm wrong -- changing gender marker is legal and relatively straight-forward, change name is about $400 after all fees.

 

[MC74]

Same, it's about $400 here

To be clear, I meant the barriers in which one can change their name legally, but I think I have the answer. It varies, but there are states that won't allow anyone to legally change their name to one of the opposite gender due to policies in place to forbid it.

 

[Crystal]

To be clear, I meant the barriers in which one can change their name legally, but I think I have the answer. It varies, but there are states that won't allow anyone to legally change their name to one of the opposite gender due to policies in place to forbid it.

Correct. Arizona has no policies against it, they just make it expensive to do.

 

[MC74]

Correct. Arizona has no policies against it, they just make it expensive to do.

But when it is banned, then things really start to become a problem. The incident mentioned above is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many instances where you need to provide identification, and bills that would bar someone from updating their legal documents means that a transgender person would not be allowed to have access to those services.

 

[MC74]

So in layman's terms, trans people would be utterly screwed. Unable to gain employment, unable to properly enroll themselves in school/college, unable to get themselves accommodated, unable to have access to some of the most essential services.

 

[Kat]

Same, it's about $400 here

That's so much!! I expected half that at most.

To be clear, I meant the barriers in which one can change their name legally, but I think I have the answer. It varies, but there are states that won't allow anyone to legally change their name to one of the opposite gender due to policies in place to forbid it.

What?! As a parent, you can name your child any dumb shit you want, but you can't pick your name as an adult? Who even decides what gender a name is appropriate for?

I was so skeptical about this that I tried to look it up, and I can't find anything about this. Do you have a reference or at least a specific state or instance of this happening? Like maybe somebody tried to claim it was fraud and denied it for that reason?

 

[Fire Queen]

so i have some personal experience with this although it only applies to my state of north cackalacky (since name change laws vary by state and sometimes even by county) and this is all as of five-ish years ago since i did my name change summer 2019

if you're changing your name for ANY reason that isn't marriage, good gravy are there some hoops to jump through. to be honest though most of the red tape i encountered wasn't specifically transphobic, it was to filter out people who might be changing their name to avoid the law or a debt. here's what i had to get done:

• post a notice of intent to change my name in the courthouse, featuring what i'm changing from to what i'm changing to, and have it up for ten days. the idea here is that if anyone is seeking you for a crime or debt, they would find you in this period. most name changes i saw when i did mine weren't even trans-related (one person was changing from Camron to Cameron. another from Suzie to Soozy???) but there were some that were. by complete chance i ended up on a hinge date with one of them a couple years later LMAO
• get a criminal background check from the state bureau of investigations and the FBI. this necessitates two separate fingerprints which run you about ten to fifteen bucks each
• filing the actual petition which also comes with a $115 fee, not sure if that's changed since then. you're not required to actually be in court unless someone contests your name change, again usually for crime/debt reasons.

from there it was actually pretty easy. time-consuming and tedious sure but easy. i've also changed my gender marker on my driver's license. that was actually remarkably easy? just needed a note from my doctor, one from my therapist, and a filing fee. that also made it easy to change it on my passport. the only thing i haven't been able to change is my birth certificate and i honestly have no interest in changing that because who the fuck is ever gonna see that anyway? i don't show my birth cert when i get carded at the liquor store lol

 

[Crystal]

That's so much!! I expected half that at most.

Yeah, I was hoping it'd be affordable, but nope.

so i have some personal experience with this although it only applies to my state of north cackalacky (since name change laws vary by state and sometimes even by county) and this is all as of five-ish years ago since i did my name change summer 2019

if you're changing your name for ANY reason that isn't marriage, good gravy are there some hoops to jump through. to be honest though most of the red tape i encountered wasn't specifically transphobic, it was to filter out people who might be changing their name to avoid the law or a debt. here's what i had to get done:

• post a notice of intent to change my name in the courthouse, featuring what i'm changing from to what i'm changing to, and have it up for ten days. the idea here is that if anyone is seeking you for a crime or debt, they would find you in this period. most name changes i saw when i did mine weren't even trans-related (one person was changing from Camron to Cameron. another from Suzie to Soozy???) but there were some that were. by complete chance i ended up on a hinge date with one of them a couple years later LMAO
• get a criminal background check from the state bureau of investigations and the FBI. this necessitates two separate fingerprints which run you about ten to fifteen bucks each
• filing the actual petition which also comes with a $115 fee, not sure if that's changed since then. you're not required to actually be in court unless someone contests your name change, again usually for crime/debt reasons.

from there it was actually pretty easy. time-consuming and tedious sure but easy. i've also changed my gender marker on my driver's license. that was actually remarkably easy? just needed a note from my doctor, one from my therapist, and a filing fee. that also made it easy to change it on my passport. the only thing i haven't been able to change is my birth certificate and i honestly have no interest in changing that because who the fuck is ever gonna see that anyway? i don't show my birth cert when i get carded at the liquor store lol

Yeah, I think the debt/crime aspect is part of why it's so expensive in AZ.

Glad it was more affordable in NC and the process wasn't too bad! Same with the gender marker!

 

[TD]

...what kind of movie theatre even checks ID that intensely? Given I haven't been in like... 6-7 years, but is that common practice? Then to be like that about the name?

It reminds me of when 7 years ago they introduced "X" as a gender option on your driver's license. It was made into a way bigger deal than it should be, people getting denied all kinds of crazy shit because of it. 7 years later you'd think it's a non-issue but it still is.

...I guess I shouldn't be surprised that phobics will find a chance to "flex" their shit whenever they can.

 

[Kat]

...what kind of movie theatre even checks ID that intensely? Given I haven't been in like... 6-7 years, but is that common practice? Then to be like that about the name?

They're checking for the monthly pass that lets you see multiple movies per week for a flat fee to prevent people from sharing it. Same idea as Netflix cracking down on account sharing.

I'm not saying it's not dumb, but that's the reason.

 

[MC74]

What?! As a parent, you can name your child any dumb shit you want, but you can't pick your name as an adult? Who even decides what gender a name is appropriate for?

I was so skeptical about this that I tried to look it up, and I can't find anything about this. Do you have a reference or at least a specific state or instance of this happening? Like maybe somebody tried to claim it was fraud and denied it for that reason?

Hold on a sec....

 

[MC74]

Doesn't look like there should be any issues for anyone to change their name legally. In the cases where there are restrictions, it strictly applies to whether one could change their gender marker or not, but as far as name changes go, you should still be able to do it providing you can get through the red tape required for you to change your name.

Even Oklahoma allows you to change your name to reflect your gender identity. Makes me interested to know how it is in other states.

 

[Crystal]

Look at this shit. LOOK AT THIS SHIT. The UK introduced a bill at 2:58pm and PASSED it at 4PM on the same day that outright bans puberty blockers ONLY IN THE CASE OF GENDER DYSPHORIA in the entire UK for anyone under 18.


Full text: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2024/727/made

Essentially, under 18? You're fucked.

 

[MC74]

Just you watch, that'll be the case for people under 25 next.

 

[Crystal]

This is the impact of the new UK ban. Tell this kid they're not valid, that they now have to be something they aren't because of ignorance and hatred. This is what the UK has done

 

[Raine]

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[MC74]

Didn't watch the video, but I saw this crop up yesterday. I believe they specifically did this right before parliament goes on a 3-month break/vacation, so there is literally zero recourse for anyone. And from what I was scanning comment-wise, while it sounded like people already on blockers would be permitted to stay on them the various requirements (birth certificate, ID, et al) made it functionally impossible or at least opened the person, their family and their pharmacy/pharmacist to direct targeting.

There's a throughput here that leads to black market situations/scenarios, and that should worry everyone.

I said that to Crystal earlier on Discord. I said that trans people will now have to seek out their options on the black market and that it's pathetic that they only avenue of getting the care they need is through self-medicating.

This is why having trans healthcare established is essential. So people can go through the process of transitioning with the help of medically-trained professionals. People who have the tools, knowledge, and experience in that field.

I guarantee you we're also going to see suicide rates skyrocket because of this, but the Tories won't give a shit. This is what they want.

 

[Raine]

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[MC74]

Time is a flat circle and all that, sadly. Society/humanity is just literally incapable of learning from their mistakes.

Or, rather, all of the shit and vile invariably makes its way to the top, like oil resting upon water, and those assholes are the ones incapable of learning. The French had the right idea, once upon a time.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and boy, are we ever close to repeating it.

Correct. Genocide is the point; trans folk succumbing to suicide just speeds up the process as far as they're concerned.

Everyone else be damned. This law even affects cis women who need to take hormones due to an imbalance, and as Crystal pointed out on Discord, they don't understand what gender affirming care is. Again, not that they care. Whatever it takes to wipe trans people off the face of the Earth, by any means necessary.