Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

...Joanne won't shut up, part: The Holocaust.

Yeah, I've definitely been calling her Queen TERF & Holocaust Denier Fucking Joanne for the last month because of that Tweet.

She's been (threatening to) SLAPP Suit-ing people for several years now, it's just who she is and what she does. She will eventually attempt it against someone with enough power and influence to call her bluff, if not reverse it on her entirely because she says a ton of heinous shit in the open. But until then pointing and laughing at her Streisand Effecting herself will have to do.

Bonus Fuck Joanne stuff from the week or so in the immediate aftermath of her thinking she "won" something with the Cass Review[Citation Needed]:




And this link used to go to a Tweet in which Fucking Joanne made an incredibly dumb, ill-advised and hateful comparison between the trans community and the sinking of the Titanic:



Which she deleted, because she's a fucking coward.

But anyway mainstream rags and websites and shit totally started picking up on stuff even before this hashtag. Clock is ticking, witch.

 
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Yeah, I've definitely been calling her Queen TERF & Holocaust Denier Fucking Joanne for the last month because of that Tweet.

She's been (threatening to) SLAPP Suit-ing people for several years now, it's just who she is and what she does. She will eventually attempt it against someone with enough power and influence to call her bluff, if not reverse it on her entirely because she says a ton of heinous shit in the open. But until then pointing and laughing at her Streisand Effecting herself will have to do.

Bonus Fuck Joanne stuff from the week or so in the immediate aftermath of her thinking she "won" something with the Cass Review[Citation Needed]:




And this link used to go to a Tweet in which Fucking Joanne made an incredibly dumb, ill-advised and hateful comparison between the trans community and the sinking of the Titanic:



Which she deleted, because she's a fucking coward.

But anyway mainstream rags and websites and shit totally started picking up on stuff even before this hashtag. Clock is ticking, witch.


I personally cannot wait for the day when that bitch finally croaks. She's not getting any sympathy from me, I'll tell you that much.
 
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She's been (threatening to) SLAPP Suit-ing people for several years now, it's just who she is and what she does. She will eventually attempt it against someone with enough power and influence to call her bluff, if not reverse it on her entirely because she says a ton of heinous shit in the open. But until then pointing and laughing at her Streisand Effecting herself will have to do.
@Crystal and I have talked about Ms. Rowling elsewhere and I'll repeat what I've said there: she is at that point in her career, where like the late author Michael Crichton along with sci-fi writer Orson Scott Card, where she effectively has what is known as Protection from Editors...
When the creator is first starting out, the editors have the advantage in the artist-executive relationship. The creator's priority is just getting their stuff out there where people can see it, and in order to make that happen most people will acquiesce on the smaller details. The creator has no real leverage — if he objects too strenuously to executives meddling with his "vision", the executives have the option of shrugging their shoulders and moving on to one of the hundreds of other desperate artists looking for a break.

However, if the creator manages to pull off a hit, the dynamic changes. He eventually becomes marketable on star power alone. Whatever he produces is guaranteed to sell, regardless of quality, thanks to his established fanbase.

Not all creators actually appreciate the help they've received from the editors. As far as they're concerned, these short-sighted editors have been holding them back from true greatness. They might not actively think this, but getting a fanbase and thus lots of positive feedback gives some people a swelled head.

Due to editors not being willing or able to fight back against a brand-name star, the resulting new material from an old creator can end up being lower-quality. Sometimes very much lower, as the author's bad habits, Mary Sues, and Author Appeals come to the fore (sometimes to the horrified shock of the creator's fanbase), where before, such excesses would be quickly and ruthlessly excised. The creators get away with it because it'll sell anyway, and we don't want to risk pissing him off and having him bolt for another company.

Protection From Editors can also foster in some minds a feeling that they are also, by extension, given Protection From Critics as well, which results in great displeasure whenever any criticism is raised — even if that criticism is constructive, well-meant, and particularly if it is valid. Expect snide attacks on anyone who dares criticise them to follow.
Crichton fell into this category after Jurassic Park when he wrote Rising Sun (a bigoted anti-Japanese economic polemic) and Disclosure (a snide attack on sexual harassment claims) and Rowling is in the same position.
 
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May she take a long walk off a short pier. Anyone who uses a platform of her stature to spread hatred and outright lies should be placed in the stocks.
I'm not one to wish people pain & suffering, but these kind of people are the exception to the rule. Anyone who advocates for an ideology that bases itself on believing in one pure and superior race while looking down on others or even going as far as to purge those that aren't "aryan" deserves to forever burn in infamy.
 
@Crystal and I have talked about Ms. Rowling elsewhere and I'll repeat what I've said there: she is at that point in her career, where like the late author Michael Crichton along with sci-fi writer Orson Scott Card, where she effectively has what is known as Protection from Editors...
For sure. Harry Potter is popular still, but Fantastic Beasts and/or whatever else she has? Not so much. The public at large has taken to looking back at the books themselves with a critical eye as well, and have been pointing out flaws and shortcomings that will definitely not be addressed in the TV show or whatever it is that they have planned. Not, like, socially conscious things either mind you (although there's a lot of that too) - actual bad writing things.

And there's simply no reason for Daniel Radcliffe and Emma Watson to debase themselves (although, obviously, money talks), so I should think a damper will be had by the fanbase for not getting cameos. No, if you will, Spider-Man pop and subsequent buzz/zeitgeist capture.

So as her star fades, I'm curious what will happen. Moreso because, well, she can adopt the pseudonym Robert Galbraith all she wants (and the irony is not lost on me), but Joanne is not a man. She's certainly not Mel Gibson. I simply can't imagine her fending off antisemitism accusations to such an extent and recovering nearly as well from it - and, in this singular exception, I will revel in it. Absolutely.
 
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Anyways, I think we should be focusing less on Joanne and more on what's around the corner in 4 days: Playoff hockey :baybay :party
Leonardo Dicaprio Reaction GIF by Once Upon A Time In Hollywood
 
Maybe she is and she's just too scared to come out and face the people who she revels in being with at present?
Then it would be very hard to think of a worse prison for her, and one of her own design no less. ;)

Not that she isn't doing a fine enough job of that as-is as a cishet woman. But she and the others will learn that the hard way in due course.
 

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Ha... hahaha. I literally just can't anymore.

Listen we all knew this was bullshit. All along, every single solitary word of it.

But we've definitely hit the apex now. For sure! Right??



They need to have a rethink on them there chromosomes too lmao. And way to say the quiet part SUPER LOUD with "non-human" participants.


 
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Ha... hahaha. I literally just can't anymore.

Listen we all knew this was bullshit. All along, every single solitary word of it.

But we've definitely hit the apex now. For sure! Right??



They need to have a rethink on them there chromosomes too lmao. And way to say the quiet part SUPER LOUD with "non-human" participants.



AEW should tell Oklahoma to fuck off.
 
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Eh, I'm not in a particularly good mood today, so fuck it. I woke up and chose violence.
Yeah, I know the feeling; I spent most of the morning filing paperwork to get an emergency DVRO filed agst. an unwanted roommate who I asked this week to leave the house. Much as I want to throw her ass through the nearest fucking window I can get to, I'll let the state of North Carolina throw her ass out.
 
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Yeah, I know the feeling; I spent most of the morning filing paperwork to get an emergency DVRO filed agst. an unwanted roommate who I asked this week to leave the house. Much as I want to throw her ass through the nearest fucking window I can get to, I'll let the state of North Carolina throw her ass out.
For me, I had to deal with people and run errands despite not feeling well. I couldn't get a break until tonight, and well, that ended up being shitty considering how the Leafs game went. :(
 
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We got pulverized by Tampa. Scored some goals very late in the game, but overall, it's been a sloppy run of form for the Leafs the past 4 games. All of them with the team playing sloppy and allowing 4+ goals.

Matthews failed to get goal #70. He finished with 69 while Kucherov netted his 100th assist. :(
There are certain certainties in life, MJF...
-Death and taxes
-Sunrises and sunsets
-Toronto fizzling out every year
 
She literally can't stop herself. :giggle

If I'm to be perfectly honest, Kirstie Allsopp doesn't come across super great either. The principle idea of finding common ground is fine in theory, but it never applies in practice for anything remotely like this subject. And she is, of course, deeply mistaken about puberty blockers.

Perfection should not be the enemy progress and all that, but... yeah.

In the same way you can't find commonality with an anti-Black racist, you can't find commonality with a TERF/Gender Critical. Their entire conceit is that the people they hate are inferior/dangerous/should be enslaved or killed off. If they could be moved to "tolerance," which is the bare minimum, then they wouldn't be (so offensively) racist/transphobic to begin with. 👀
 
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She literally can't stop herself. :giggle

If I'm to be perfectly honest, Kirstie Allsopp doesn't come across super great either. The principle idea of finding common ground is fine in theory, but it never applies in practice for anything remotely like this subject. And she is, of course, deeply mistaken about puberty blockers.

Perfection should not be the enemy progress and all that, but... yeah.

In the same way you can't find commonality with an anti-Black racist, you can't find commonality with a TERF/Gender Critical. Their entire conceit is that the people they hate are inferior/dangerous/should be enslaved or killed off. If they could be moved to "tolerance," which is the bare minimum, then they wouldn't be (so offensively) racist/transphobic to begin with. 👀
Nope, you're not going to find any commonality with these people. Forget about trying to rationalize with Nazis, it's a lost cause.
 

Crystal

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She literally can't stop herself. :giggle

If I'm to be perfectly honest, Kirstie Allsopp doesn't come across super great either. The principle idea of finding common ground is fine in theory, but it never applies in practice for anything remotely like this subject. And she is, of course, deeply mistaken about puberty blockers.

Perfection should not be the enemy progress and all that, but... yeah.

In the same way you can't find commonality with an anti-Black racist, you can't find commonality with a TERF/Gender Critical. Their entire conceit is that the people they hate are inferior/dangerous/should be enslaved or killed off. If they could be moved to "tolerance," which is the bare minimum, then they wouldn't be (so offensively) racist/transphobic to begin with. 👀
They're two sides of the same coin and they're STILL arguing. The hypocrites can't even stay on the same page.
 
They're two sides of the same coin and they're STILL arguing. The hypocrites can't even stay on the same page.
Basically what always happens, yeah!

Who knew that reactionary movements driven wholly by hate and misinformation would constantly devolve into infighting and self-immolation when the target of their ire isn't directly in front of them? :rofl
 
Speaking of DeSantis, there's a certain amount of irony of face-value looking at the Don't Say Gay bullshit. Like the idiots drove themselves into a frothing mess that just the idea, the very concept, of LGBTQIA+ individuals existing might somehow convert their sweet, innocent children into Flaming Homosexuals™ or whatever.

But also.

ALSO.

We're going to now mandate that every school in our state teaches children (the bad parts of) Communism.


I'm pretty sure learning that other forms of societal governance exist is far more damaging to your way of life than we are there, buddy. Telling kids "thing bad" doesn't work generally, but especially not now in the Age of Information where simply typing "Communism" or "Socialism" into YouTube/TikTok will get them just as many influencers teaching that shit proper as chuds QQing about something they don't remotely understand.

But hey what do I know, right? :giggle
 
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Speaking of DeSantis, there's a certain amount of irony of face-value looking at the Don't Say Gay bullshit. Like the idiots drove themselves into a frothing mess that just the idea, the very concept, of LGBTQIA+ individuals existing might somehow convert their sweet, innocent children into Flaming Homosexuals™ or whatever.

But also.

ALSO.

We're going to now mandate that every school in our state teaches children (the bad parts of) Communism.


I'm pretty sure learning that other forms of societal governance exist is far more damaging to your way of life than we are there, buddy. Telling kids "thing bad" doesn't work generally, but especially not now in the Age of Information where simply typing "Communism" or "Socialism" into YouTube/TikTok will get them just as many influencers teaching that shit proper as chuds QQing about something they don't remotely understand.

But hey what do I know, right? :giggle
They want to scream about children being indoctrinated, and here they are trying to manipulate the education system in their favor. Funny how that works, innit?
 

Crystal

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Basically what always happens, yeah!

Who knew that reactionary movements driven wholly by hate and misinformation would constantly devolve into infighting and self-immolation when the target of their ire isn't directly in front of them? :rofl
TRANS PEOPLES IS PREDATORS! TRANS KIDS AREN'T REAL!

...TRANS PEOPLE ARE A LITTLE BIT REAL, JOANNE, BUT NO TRANS KIDS....

YOU BITCH, FUCK YOU!
 

Kat

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And she is, of course, deeply mistaken about puberty blockers.
So let's talk about this. I mean puberty blockers in general, not her being wrong about them.

First off, her statement that nobody under 18 should be allowed to do anything to "permanently affect" their fertility really rubs me the wrong way. I'm so tired of "fertility" being put above every other health concern out there. Yes, some people end up unable to have kids for whatever reason and deeply wish they could later in life. But some people are absolutely miserable because they can't get the healthcare they need because it might affect their ability to have kids that they might want someday. I wish we could all agree that people who currently exist are more important than theoretical future people.

But that rant aside, this topic came up with my girlfriend once, and she generally opposes them too. She says they have long-term effects that aren't great, and we should trust kids and just put them on hormones if they say they're trans. "Kids know who they are" was also something said in response to the Cass report.

I got my first period at 11, so I have to admit, that seems kind of nuts to me. I did not know who I was at that point. I'm sure some kids do, but a big part of being a kid is figuring that stuff out. I can see the argument for doing it younger than 18 in lots of cases, it's not like 18 year olds magically have everything figured out either, but surely puberty blockers generally make sense when kids are first hitting puberty?

Just curious your thoughts on that.
 

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They want to scream about children being indoctrinated, and here they are trying to manipulate the education system in their favor. Funny how that works, innit?
Duh, this has always been the actual complaint. "Indoctrination" is just a fancy way to say "teaching my kids something I don't want them to be taught."

If they really have a problem with so-called indoctrination, then maybe what we should really be teaching more of is critical thinking. Let kids question what's being taught if it doesn't make sense to them or conflicts with other things they've been taught. Then it won't be indoctrination. (That word is really hard to type on mobile.)

But I have a feeling they really won't like that. :tease
 
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Duh, this has always been the actual complaint. "Indoctrination" is just a fancy way to say "teaching my kids something I don't want them to be taught."

If they really have a problem with so-called indoctrination, then maybe what we should really be teaching more of is critical thinking. Let kids question what's being taught if it doesn't make sense to them or conflicts with other things they've been taught. Then it won't be indoctrination. (That word is really hard to type on mobile.)

But I have a feeling they really won't like that. :tease
Oh, most definitely not. They want people to be programmed to fall in line with them.
 
First off, her statement that nobody under 18 should be allowed to do anything to "permanently affect" their fertility really rubs me the wrong way. I'm so tired of "fertility" being put above every other health concern out there.
So, I feel like we should at least preface and acknowledge this part for what it is? Fertility, especially within the context of gender identity, isn't really a concern - it's a dog whistle. The fact that it harms/hurts cis women is (distantly) secondary to the fact that TERFs believe trans women aren't women, and the ability to give birth is the one thing science and technology cannot (currently, safely) grant unto us. By saying things like "women have a uterus" or "only women can give birth" (which, again, is wrong - but they never acknowledge that trans men exist) they are simply saying "trans women are not women."

Obviously the entire thing is steeped in misogyny, too. Top to bottom. Rigidly defining what a woman can or cannot be - I will once again say that not all outwardly cis women have XX chromosomes - will always exclude someone. Women that are infertile, or have a hysterectomy, or simply women that have gone through menopause? Shit like this will catch them, too. I mean fuck Joanne is 58-years old. By some of her own definitions she is not a woman?!

I wish we could all agree that people who currently exist are more important than theoretical future people.
That would be swell, wouldn't it? Alas. :shake

But that rant aside, this topic came up with my girlfriend once, and she generally opposes them too. She says they have long-term effects that aren't great, and we should trust kids and just put them on hormones if they say they're trans. "Kids know who they are" was also something said in response to the Cass report.
I feel like generally that's probably true, on the knowing part. Like for me, of course, I didn't "know" - but I also didn't know I could know, so it's not exactly fair. And judging the thoughts I had between the ages of 7 and ~12 based on the memories I have now of that time while pushing 40 is, uhh... not quite scientific. Or accurate, probably.

I would be curious about the "generally" qualifier on your girlfriend's stance, though. Because I feel like she's probably giving you the cliffnotes version of the longer explanation that the system is rigged? It could vary though.

But like, strictly speaking, puberty blockers are as safe as everything else medically available. People's specific reactions to things notwithstanding, the simple act of delaying puberty is not harmful. There is an actual phenomenon called "precocious puberty" wherein some cis children begin to enter puberty too early, and puberty blockers are used - were conceived of - to delay that. It is noteworthy, in fact, that as far as I'm aware Hillary Cass does not point out the existence of this (and as a pediatrician she should absolutely be familiar with it) and does not say that cis children should not receive puberty blockers - only that non-conforming children should be denied that access!

So, if the medical institutions weren't being fucked with, if anti-trans agendas and legislation weren't involved, if everyone had easy and reliable access to both physical and mental healthcare? Children that were questioning their gender could 100% safely be placed on to puberty blockers and be referred to therapists/clinicians that could evaluate and educate both them and their parents. The children could then begin the correct type of puberty, with proper medical help and oversight, and everything would be fine. There would be no concern of/for being on puberty blockers for "too long."

Too long only exists as a byproduct of transphobes/TERFs denying us access to lifesaving gender-affirming care. By saying that it's "not safe" or ethical or whatever - statements made with no medical background, understanding or genuine backing, I must point out - and that children must wait until age 18 (or 25*), they themselves create the false dichotomy wherein a non-conforming child would either 1) have to remain on puberty blockers for years/a decade or 2) go through the incorrect puberty and then face further discrimination, such as in sports, because of that.
 

Kat

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I would be curious about the "generally" qualifier on your girlfriend's stance, though. Because I feel like she's probably giving you the cliffnotes version of the longer explanation that the system is rigged? It could vary though.

But like, strictly speaking, puberty blockers are as safe as everything else medically available. People's specific reactions to things notwithstanding, the simple act of delaying puberty is not harmful.
You're right, it was a short conversation without much nuance, which is why I put "generally". I feel weird questioning her on that stuff so I just dropped it. She did give some specific side effect, maybe that it messes with bone density or calcium absorption or something like that?

Maybe it's more of a "being on them too long/late in life" problem than a general problem, like you said. Puberty definitely doesn't need to be delayed until fucking 25.
 
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But like, strictly speaking, puberty blockers are as safe as everything else medically available. People's specific reactions to things notwithstanding, the simple act of delaying puberty is not harmful. There is an actual phenomenon called "precocious puberty" wherein some cis children begin to enter puberty too early, and puberty blockers are used - were conceived of - to delay that. It is noteworthy, in fact, that as far as I'm aware Hillary Cass does not point out the existence of this (and as a pediatrician she should absolutely be familiar with it) and does not say that cis children should not receive puberty blockers - only that non-conforming children should be denied that access!
And contrary to what the anti-trans folk are trying to insinuate, puberty blockers are reversible, unlike the changes that occur with HRT itself. Think of them as a safeguard before one makes the decision to fully go ahead with medically transitioning.
 
You're right, it was a short conversation without much nuance, which is why I put "generally". I feel weird questioning her on that stuff so I just dropped it. She did give some specific side effect, maybe that it messes with bone density or calcium absorption or something like that?
Aw, that's understandable! :hugs

I think she'd probably be happy to answer your questions and would appreciate that you're just trying to understand the whole thing better. But, you've also got access to us - so feel free to lob questions whenever!

Bone density would be the primary concern, yeah. That's specifically what puberty is doing - promoting rapid growth/development of both the internal and external characteristics. There isn't really a good, scientific reason to delay puberty indefinitely, so the longer-term implications are probably at best murky. But short-term - a couple of months, perhaps - is safe and there are plenty of studies and reports on it. I think what would be interesting/useful, albeit probably difficult, is doing a study on say very young girls that need to be on the puberty blockers for several years so that they reach the "standard" age range.

Like a quick Google search brought this up:


Hypothetically speaking, if a girl was entering puberty at 5 - would it be medically sound to keep her on blockers until the age of 8? ...I mean I guess assuming such a study hasn't already been done. I haven't ever looked; I'm sure Cass and Joanne haven't either.

But per the article it's weighing odds at worst; potentially increased risk of cancer or future developmental stunting versus (as below) potential concerns with bone density/osteoporosis. 🤔

Maybe it's more of a "being on them too long/late in life" problem than a general problem, like you said. Puberty definitely doesn't need to be delayed until fucking 25.
Indeed, and... I would probably hazard that attempting to delay puberty all together until 25 would be massively devastating to the body. Like the exact condition(s) name eludes me, but I'm immediately reminded of the people that are super frail and skeletal-looking because their body naturally did not develop properly?

Which is... honestly probably what the bigots would want. "Look, see, this is what happens!" or some shit. :(

And contrary to what the anti-trans folk are trying to insinuate, puberty blockers are reversible, unlike the changes that occur with HRT itself. Think of them as a safeguard before one makes the decision to fully go ahead with medically transitioning.
Correct! Yes, that's something I failed to mention. The article Crystal posted seems to imply that Kirstie Allsopp thinks puberty blockers mess with fertility - they don't, and that stance should not be presented as the Pro-Trans one. Because it's very much Anti-Trans in nature and shifts the overton window completely out of focus via deceptive framing. It's "Bad vs Evil" at absolute best.
 

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What does a shithole city like Baltimore and the LGBTQ community have in common? Nothing but love for John Waters, whose birthday is today apparently. Dude’s a classic, doesn’t even age anymore, and still funny as hell.
 
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