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Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

Raine

Chief Liquid Officer, Shitposting Dept.
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I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not. 🤔



Completely unrelated, and also not actually relevant to the trans experience yet, but saw this crop up earlier:

Article:
Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Two abortion-inducing drugs could soon be reclassified as controlled and dangerous substances in Louisiana under a first-of-its-kind bill that received final legislative passage Thursday and is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas. Numerous doctors, meanwhile, have said it will make it harder for them to prescribe the medicines, which they also use for other important reproductive health care needs.

Passage of the bill comes as both abortion rights advocates and abortion opponents await a final decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on an effort to restrict access to mifepristone. The justices did not appear ready to limit access to the drug on the day they heard arguments.

The GOP-dominated Legislature’s push to reclassify mifepristone and misoprostol could possibly open the door for other Republican states with abortion bans that are seeking tighter restrictions on the drugs. Louisiana currently has a near-total abortion ban in place, applying both to surgical and medical abortions.

Article:
In addition to inducing abortions, mifepristone and misoprostol have other common uses, such as treating miscarriages, inducing labor and stopping hemorrhaging.

Mifepristone was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2000 after federal regulators deemed it safe and effective for ending early pregnancies. It’s used in combination with misoprostol, which the FDA has separately approved to treat stomach ulcers.
 
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I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not. 🤔



Completely unrelated, and also not actually relevant to the trans experience yet, but saw this crop up earlier:

Article:
Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

BATON ROUGE, La. (AP) — Two abortion-inducing drugs could soon be reclassified as controlled and dangerous substances in Louisiana under a first-of-its-kind bill that received final legislative passage Thursday and is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas. Numerous doctors, meanwhile, have said it will make it harder for them to prescribe the medicines, which they also use for other important reproductive health care needs.

Passage of the bill comes as both abortion rights advocates and abortion opponents await a final decision from the U.S. Supreme Court on an effort to restrict access to mifepristone. The justices did not appear ready to limit access to the drug on the day they heard arguments.

The GOP-dominated Legislature’s push to reclassify mifepristone and misoprostol could possibly open the door for other Republican states with abortion bans that are seeking tighter restrictions on the drugs. Louisiana currently has a near-total abortion ban in place, applying both to surgical and medical abortions.

Article:
In addition to inducing abortions, mifepristone and misoprostol have other common uses, such as treating miscarriages, inducing labor and stopping hemorrhaging.

Mifepristone was approved by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration in 2000 after federal regulators deemed it safe and effective for ending early pregnancies. It’s used in combination with misoprostol, which the FDA has separately approved to treat stomach ulcers.
I fully expect them to take the same approach with HRT. Just you watch.
 

Kat

Orangekat, not Aphrodite
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I know more straight trans women than lesbian ones, though certainly I've noticed the lesbian metric being heavily skewed in nerd/geek/hobbyist communities. Not sure if that's self-selection or not. 🤔
Hmm, interesting. I know a lot of lesbians from my polycule, and a few happen to be trans, so that's why it's skewed for me personally. We're also all nerds though (and, of course, I know you ladies from this nerdy community).

Article:
Louisiana Legislature approves bill classifying abortion pills as controlled dangerous substances
Louisiana lawmakers approved a first-of-its-kind bill that would classify two abortion-inducing drugs as a controlled and dangerous substances, despite widespread criticism from doctors. The bill is expected to be signed into law by the governor.

Supporters of the reclassification of mifepristone and misoprostol, commonly known as “abortion pills,” say it would protect expectant mothers from coerced abortions, though they cited only one example of that happening, in the state of Texas.
To expand on this bit: the case they're talking about is a man who slipped his pregnant partner an abortion pill without her knowledge or consent, which is already illegal. I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you this, but this is just an excuse to further restrict abortion access. If they actually cared about that problem, they'd instead increase resources for domestic violence victims, make it easier for pregnant women to get divorced (many states effectively don't allow it), and increase safety nets so women don't stay in unsafe relationships for financial reasons. But they won't do any of that, even though it would significantly benefit both mothers and children.
 

Raine

Chief Liquid Officer, Shitposting Dept.
GW Elder
Messages
3,883
To expand on this bit: the case they're talking about is a man who slipped his pregnant partner an abortion pill without her knowledge or consent, which is already illegal. I'm sure I don't have to tell any of you this, but this is just an excuse to further restrict abortion access. If they actually cared about that problem, they'd instead increase resources for domestic violence victims, make it easier for pregnant women to get divorced (many states effectively don't allow it), and increase safety nets so women don't stay in unsafe relationships for financial reasons. But they won't do any of that, even though it would significantly benefit both mothers and children.
Yup! Which, as the AP article notes, there have been a handful of other cases beyond the one from Texas that Louisiana is citing. But none of those happened in Louisiana, that's a handful over a 15-year period, and as you say it's already a crime to do this!

As we all know, locks only keep out innocent people. Federal Schedule IVs aren't hard to come by if you want them; that's shit like Valium or Xanax. And there are worse things, like Rohypnol, that are the same classification and have never been approved in the US but are still extraordinarily common - to the point that multiple products have come to market (and many more that have not, like the nail polish) to help women/people protect themselves. 'Cause lord fucking knows the people in power are unwilling and incapable. So if it literally will not stop, in the eyes of Conservatives, baby killers, then what is the point of the ban if not the glaringly obvious?


The entire precedent that could be set by this is fucked, though. Non-medical experts making healthcare decisions based their asinine ideology is not going to end well if this is 1) not immediately challenged and shut down and 2) permitted to spread to half (or more!) of the country. That article Mark posted from the heavy metal website? Guarantee you that and the hack job Cass report would be used to ban HRT - invariably for both trans and cis individuals. "The treatment cannot be worse than the disease" mouth-breathing motherfuckers would absolutely try their hand at banning vaccines. So on, so forth...

Healthcare in the US is already beyond repair and redemption. Something like this running amok would just finish kneecapping the system and perhaps cause everything to collapse in on itself. :shake
 
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Yup! Which, as the AP article notes, there have been a handful of other cases beyond the one from Texas that Louisiana is citing. But none of those happened in Louisiana, that's a handful over a 15-year period, and as you say it's already a crime to do this!

As we all know, locks only keep out innocent people. Federal Schedule IVs aren't hard to come by if you want them; that's shit like Valium or Xanax. And there are worse things, like Rohypnol, that are the same classification and have never been approved in the US but are still extraordinarily common - to the point that multiple products have come to market (and many more that have not, like the nail polish) to help women/people protect themselves. 'Cause lord fucking knows the people in power are unwilling and incapable. So if it literally will not stop, in the eyes of Conservatives, baby killers, then what is the point of the ban if not the glaringly obvious?


The entire precedent that could be set by this is fucked, though. Non-medical experts making healthcare decisions based their asinine ideology is not going to end well if this is 1) not immediately challenged and shut down and 2) permitted to spread to half (or more!) of the country. That article Mark posted from the heavy metal website? Guarantee you that and the hack job Cass report would be used to ban HRT - invariably for both trans and cis individuals. "The treatment cannot be worse than the disease" mouth-breathing motherfuckers would absolutely try their hand at banning vaccines. So on, so forth...

Healthcare in the US is already beyond repair and redemption. Something like this running amok would just finish kneecapping the system and perhaps cause everything to collapse in on itself. :shake
Oh, without doubt. Conservatives are going to use that as ammunition in their efforts to completely shut down trans healthcare, with the goal of replacing it with conversion therapy (which is what's currently happening in the red states as we speak).
 

Kat

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It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.
 

Crystal

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It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.
Absolutely agreed, I hope that co-worker has an entirely new view on trans people. She's just a normal human being who is trying to live her life as herself, nothing more.
 
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It's easy to dehumanize an abstract group of people. It's much harder to apply that to someone you've known personally for many years. I hope that co-worker who had previously voiced opposition to trans people sees how much happier the poster is after transitioning and rethinks their position.

I go both ways on this, I mean I hope they do change their views, but it does bug me when someone has to have something directly affect them before they change their stance on something like homosexuality, trans, women's rights & safety, etc

Like I get when something directly happens it does affect your view on things, but we're talking about basic empathy for other people that are in no shape or way affecting your life
 

Raine

Chief Liquid Officer, Shitposting Dept.
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3,883
Uh-oh, Raine has some free time again. lol

Louisiana's passed the Don't Say Gay law.
To the surprise of nobody, really.

But here's the thing... it doesn't actually matter? And, like, I understand this is also a secondary boon for the dipshits, but if anything this just further undermines the validity and relevancy of schools. There is already an extraordinary push, and general sentiment, amongst Zoomers and Alphas (and younger Millennials) that there's no value in or point to schooling. "Anything you need to know or learn can be done at your own pace through the internet" - which is very true, to some extent. I've learned orders of magnitude more since I dropped out of school than I ever learned while in it, and many of the things that I did learn in school were just factually fucking wrong or whitewashed anyway. The myth of Christopher Columbus, for example, or the true nature and framing of both the Civil War and the Civil Rights Movement.

Kids already know about "Gay" and "Lesbian" and "Trans" - they are unavoidable. Kids have always learned about sex through peers and older siblings/relatives/friends/classmates before the alleged education system bothers to try to inadequately teach them fucking anything.

The entire argument from Conservatives, shockingly, is backwards. It's not "I need to shelter Timmy from Raine before she convinces him to chop off his peepee and stuff silicone implants into his chest." It's just not. It's "I need a qualified professional, a teacher, to help educate my child and all of his peers so that when they invariably start acting like bunny rabbits they are armed with the knowledge to do so safely and responsibly." And probably, while they're at it, broach subjects like Toxic Masculinity, Feminism and the importance of consent and respect.

If they can't manage that, or they're so late to the party that anything they say doesn't matter because the kids already know (and/or the things they're teaching or the way they're teaching is insufficient, see: the oxymoron of religious schools), then the entire thing might as well be scrapped from the curriculum anyway.

So per that secondary bonus, yes, that's the only way Conservatives have any means of retaining power: The uneducated masses literally not knowing any better and just blindly trusting their myths and lies, buying into their propaganda and being brainwashed little puppets.

But whether it's the GOP or the State of Israel: The internet is far too powerful a tool. Many children have tablets and/or cellphones with internet access before they're done being a toddler. Damn near everyone below the age of 18 is addicted to their cellphone - as are people older than 18, TBQH - and information moves so incredibly quickly. Zuckerberg can fuck up Facebook and Instagram, Musk can buy and undermine Twitter, spez can torpedo Reddit, the US government can ban TikTok, ads and propaganda can run amok all it wants everywhere directly and through ads... but the general consensus is far more solidified in recent years, and becomes moreso the more time that passes.

Old, archaic methods of indoctrination fall flat. Religious (Christian, anyway) adherence is in decline. Hatred of "the other" is a lot harder when, at the touch of a button, a person of color, or from a different country, with a different accent, can enter (or exit) a person's life and radically challenge their perception. All people need is the kernel of truth that people come in all kinds of different shapes, sizes, appearances and that that's completely normal. The days of being within a fully white cishet community, never seeing or interacting with a Black man, or a Gay man, or knowing anything at all outside of your little sphere and what your local elders pass down is well on its way out. That genie doesn't go back into the lamp no matter how hard bigots try.

The only consideration, at this point, is whether they can stifle progress long enough, to prevent the masses from dealing with the blight that is Neoliberalism and Capitalism at large before climate change makes everything moot by annihilating the species.

Like I get when something directly happens it does affect your view on things, but we're talking about basic empathy for other people that are in no shape or way affecting your life
It's a combination of factors, sadly. Most people are just not very emotionally mature.

We stigmatize men showing any sort of emotion, as a quick and dirty example. Mental health is dismissed; people with diagnoses are looked down upon pretty universally, it's basically always seen as some form of flaw or weakness. Our education system would rather do rote memorization of State Capitals or US Presidents than challenge and teach concepts like Critical Thinking, or to delve into psychology and tease out the nuances of Empathy and Sympathy.

We as a society use the word "Compassion" quite frequently, but in very... not useful, if not actually harmful, ways. We're still not really out of that whole "Being a Good Father™ just means supplying money, food and shelter" style of toxic, regressive thinking. We tell our children that healthy relationships include arguments, fighting, mockery and abuse (emotional and physical), that that's all normal, and then wonder why our divorce rates are ludicrous. Bullying is straight-up not handled properly in or out of school, to the point where - especially pertinent to this thread - trans and non-conforming children are driven to suicide and their effective murderers are not held accountable.

It happens with most subjects, though. It's just "not real" on some level until it happens to them, because it's only at that point that they can begin to finally understand. Back during the whole Roy Moore ordeal down in Alabama, I will always distinctly remember the old man holding a sign in opposition to his lifelong party. Not, necessarily, because he finally disagreed with them... but because he was so deeply and emotionally distraught that his own daughter was in the crosshairs, because she was a lesbian and that meant, according to the Conservative platform, that she was a deviant, a danger, a pervert.

Or, and probably why I really remember, she was a "Pre-vert" because the old man... probably never had much of a life of his own. As an ostensibly poor, cishet white man in Alabama, he probably got forced to drop out of school very early and go work on the family farm. Where, because he was a man and men are only good for toiling away to provide food, money and shelter for their families, he stayed, missing most or all of his daughter's upbringing. He loved his daughter, sure, but it simply wasn't "his place" to be part of her life like that. And so, with her in at least her 30's and him retired, he could finally return to just being a person - except his beloved daughter was now under attack, and he had to suddenly grapple with the actual realities of not just that, but his own role in perpetuating that bullshit his entire life.

And it's that story on endless repeat, subject after subject, year after year, but the overwhelming majority of those people are honestly just in too deep to dig out. It's much easier to just look away, or claim that it's false/fake, or whatever, than to stop and consider that everything they believe in was a lie.

Which, also, is why religion ends up being deeply entwined with so much of this. Because then it's not just that people are doing things in their own personal life that they don't agree with, it's that - to paraphrase the fucking Catholic Pope - "Transgender individuals are encroaching upon the domain of God" or some such bullshit. It's (not so) suddenly not that I'm a woman trapped in a man's body, it's that I'm personally spitting in their God's face, telling Him that He made a mistake, that my body is incorrect. So, therefore, I am blaspheming - I am now an enemy, a disciple of Satan, a corrupter of the innocent, a blight upon humanity, that I am literally evil. I simply cannot be left alone, I must either recant and atone for my sins or I must be excised before "my ideology" spreads to and corrupts others, further undermines the sanctity of their God-given paradise.

It's... I mean, obviously, not great. And those are the people you absolutely do not engage with. Ever. Under any circumstances. Those people are lost forever.
 

Raine

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Look on the bright side*, movie theater attendance is cratering and those assholes will be out of a job soon. Faster still since that's one of the few people keeping their ass employed!

* Regretfully many others will be affected too, but...
 
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Kat

Orangekat, not Aphrodite
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Fuck people. Still glad they had a day out, but fuck people...

View attachment 16196
Ugh. I'm not even trans and I run into this kind of thing occasionally when I put Kat into a name field. Yes, my license says Katherine, but the last name is the same, and it's obviously the same person. Tons of people aren't comfortable with their legal names for all sorts of reasons. If a company needs a legal name, they should explicitly say so, and ideally give them a place to put their preferred name.

Especially when it's something like this, where there's no real harm if someone occasionally gets away with using a pass that isn't theirs. It's ridiculous they're checking legal IDs at all instead of just going by the provided picture IMO. My expensive gym has less stringent security.

As said, it's 2024. There's no excuse for this.
 

Crystal

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Ugh. I'm not even trans and I run into this kind of thing occasionally when I put Kat into a name field. Yes, my license says Katherine, but the last name is the same, and it's obviously the same person. Tons of people aren't comfortable with their legal names for all sorts of reasons. If a company needs a legal name, they should explicitly say so, and ideally give them a place to put their preferred name.
I completely agree, there should 100% be a Preferred Name space for any document or identification requiring a legal name. I hate being called by my...that other name...at any point. I'm not that name, and it sucks to hear it. Same for anyone that doesn't like their legal name, it's something lots of people deal with, trans or not. To get denied access to a damn movie theatre for something like this?! Absolute disgrace, as much as I miss the cinema, I hope any that employ this practice go under.
Especially when it's something like this, where there's no real harm if someone occasionally gets away with using a pass that isn't theirs. It's ridiculous they're checking legal IDs at all instead of just going by the provided picture IMO. My expensive gym has less stringent security.

As said, it's 2024. There's no excuse for this.
This. Very, very, very much this. Disgusting that we're at this point. Is this how we're going to police the bathrooms and locker rooms next? Check IDs?
 

Kat

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I completely agree, there should 100% be a Preferred Name space for any document or identification requiring a legal name. I hate being called by my...that other name...at any point. I'm not that name, and it sucks to hear it. Same for anyone that doesn't like their legal name, it's something lots of people deal with, trans or not.
What's stopping you from changing your legal name? Cost? You don't want your parents to find out?

Disgusting that we're at this point.
I wouldn't say it's disgusting, it's not done out of malice, just laziness and lack of foresight. They probably started with the picture, but the passes were used more than expected (I'm assuming this is a monthly pass where you can buy as many tickets as you want or similar), so AMC was losing money. They figure people are sharing passes, a lot of people look alike, and confrontational people will insist it's them even when it isn't. So they figure they'll enforce it by comparing the name against an ID. Sharing a pass is one thing, but most people won't also loan out their ID. It becomes a zero tolerance policy due to the aforementioned confrontational asshole thieves who ruin things for everyone in all retail environments and managers who will always cave to said assholes (if you've ever worked at a large chain, you probably know what I mean).

Obviously the person who posted that isn't one of those people trying to pull something over on the theatre, and it's easy to tell that, but it's also easiest to say no to people being calm and polite.

... On second thought, I may have talked myself into agreeing with you.
 

Crystal

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What's stopping you from changing your legal name? Cost? You don't want your parents to find out?
Like all things, cost is a massive factor. It's way beyond me.
I wouldn't say it's disgusting, it's not done out of malice, just laziness and lack of foresight. They probably started with the picture, but the passes were used more than expected (I'm assuming this is a monthly pass where you can buy as many tickets as you want or similar), so AMC was losing money. They figure people are sharing passes, a lot of people look alike, and confrontational people will insist it's them even when it isn't. So they figure they'll enforce it by comparing the name against an ID. Sharing a pass is one thing, but most people won't also loan out their ID. It becomes a zero tolerance policy due to the aforementioned confrontational asshole thieves who ruin things for everyone in all retail environments and managers who will always cave to said assholes (if you've ever worked at a large chain, you probably know what I mean).

Obviously the person who posted that isn't one of those people trying to pull something over on the theatre, and it's easy to tell that, but it's also easiest to say no to people being calm and polite.

... On second thought, I may have talked myself into agreeing with you.
;)

No, I completely understand those who abuse the system, but in a situation where you can see person a = person a, but trans, you can easily let that slide and let them in. It's who they were, even if it isn't who they are.

I'm sticking with disgusting, they had every chance to do the right thing and didn't.
 

Crystal

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Outside of your case, I believe there are laws in some states trying to prevent people from changing their gender marker on their IDs. Not sure how it varies across state-to-state, but I can imagine that being a barrier for trans people living in the states that bar that.
It is definitely a thing in a lot of states. Here it's just prohibitively expensive.
 

Crystal

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To be clear, I meant the barriers in which one can change their name legally, but I think I have the answer. It varies, but there are states that won't allow anyone to legally change their name to one of the opposite gender due to policies in place to forbid it.
Correct. Arizona has no policies against it, they just make it expensive to do.
 
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Correct. Arizona has no policies against it, they just make it expensive to do.
But when it is banned, then things really start to become a problem. The incident mentioned above is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many instances where you need to provide identification, and bills that would bar someone from updating their legal documents means that a transgender person would not be allowed to have access to those services.
 
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So in layman's terms, trans people would be utterly screwed. Unable to gain employment, unable to properly enroll themselves in school/college, unable to get themselves accommodated, unable to have access to some of the most essential services.
 

Kat

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Same, it's about $400 here
That's so much!! I expected half that at most.

To be clear, I meant the barriers in which one can change their name legally, but I think I have the answer. It varies, but there are states that won't allow anyone to legally change their name to one of the opposite gender due to policies in place to forbid it.
What?! As a parent, you can name your child any dumb shit you want, but you can't pick your name as an adult? Who even decides what gender a name is appropriate for?

I was so skeptical about this that I tried to look it up, and I can't find anything about this. Do you have a reference or at least a specific state or instance of this happening? Like maybe somebody tried to claim it was fraud and denied it for that reason?
 
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so i have some personal experience with this although it only applies to my state of north cackalacky (since name change laws vary by state and sometimes even by county) and this is all as of five-ish years ago since i did my name change summer 2019

if you're changing your name for ANY reason that isn't marriage, good gravy are there some hoops to jump through. to be honest though most of the red tape i encountered wasn't specifically transphobic, it was to filter out people who might be changing their name to avoid the law or a debt. here's what i had to get done:

  • post a notice of intent to change my name in the courthouse, featuring what i'm changing from to what i'm changing to, and have it up for ten days. the idea here is that if anyone is seeking you for a crime or debt, they would find you in this period. most name changes i saw when i did mine weren't even trans-related (one person was changing from Camron to Cameron. another from Suzie to Soozy???) but there were some that were. by complete chance i ended up on a hinge date with one of them a couple years later LMAO
  • get a criminal background check from the state bureau of investigations and the FBI. this necessitates two separate fingerprints which run you about ten to fifteen bucks each
  • filing the actual petition which also comes with a $115 fee, not sure if that's changed since then. you're not required to actually be in court unless someone contests your name change, again usually for crime/debt reasons.
from there it was actually pretty easy. time-consuming and tedious sure but easy. i've also changed my gender marker on my driver's license. that was actually remarkably easy? just needed a note from my doctor, one from my therapist, and a filing fee. that also made it easy to change it on my passport. the only thing i haven't been able to change is my birth certificate and i honestly have no interest in changing that because who the fuck is ever gonna see that anyway? i don't show my birth cert when i get carded at the liquor store lol
 

Crystal

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That's so much!! I expected half that at most.
Yeah, I was hoping it'd be affordable, but nope.
so i have some personal experience with this although it only applies to my state of north cackalacky (since name change laws vary by state and sometimes even by county) and this is all as of five-ish years ago since i did my name change summer 2019

if you're changing your name for ANY reason that isn't marriage, good gravy are there some hoops to jump through. to be honest though most of the red tape i encountered wasn't specifically transphobic, it was to filter out people who might be changing their name to avoid the law or a debt. here's what i had to get done:

  • post a notice of intent to change my name in the courthouse, featuring what i'm changing from to what i'm changing to, and have it up for ten days. the idea here is that if anyone is seeking you for a crime or debt, they would find you in this period. most name changes i saw when i did mine weren't even trans-related (one person was changing from Camron to Cameron. another from Suzie to Soozy???) but there were some that were. by complete chance i ended up on a hinge date with one of them a couple years later LMAO
  • get a criminal background check from the state bureau of investigations and the FBI. this necessitates two separate fingerprints which run you about ten to fifteen bucks each
  • filing the actual petition which also comes with a $115 fee, not sure if that's changed since then. you're not required to actually be in court unless someone contests your name change, again usually for crime/debt reasons.
from there it was actually pretty easy. time-consuming and tedious sure but easy. i've also changed my gender marker on my driver's license. that was actually remarkably easy? just needed a note from my doctor, one from my therapist, and a filing fee. that also made it easy to change it on my passport. the only thing i haven't been able to change is my birth certificate and i honestly have no interest in changing that because who the fuck is ever gonna see that anyway? i don't show my birth cert when i get carded at the liquor store lol
Yeah, I think the debt/crime aspect is part of why it's so expensive in AZ.

Glad it was more affordable in NC and the process wasn't too bad! Same with the gender marker!
 

TD

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...what kind of movie theatre even checks ID that intensely? Given I haven't been in like... 6-7 years, but is that common practice? Then to be like that about the name?

It reminds me of when 7 years ago they introduced "X" as a gender option on your driver's license. It was made into a way bigger deal than it should be, people getting denied all kinds of crazy shit because of it. 7 years later you'd think it's a non-issue but it still is.

...I guess I shouldn't be surprised that phobics will find a chance to "flex" their shit whenever they can.
 

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...what kind of movie theatre even checks ID that intensely? Given I haven't been in like... 6-7 years, but is that common practice? Then to be like that about the name?
They're checking for the monthly pass that lets you see multiple movies per week for a flat fee to prevent people from sharing it. Same idea as Netflix cracking down on account sharing.

I'm not saying it's not dumb, but that's the reason.
 
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What?! As a parent, you can name your child any dumb shit you want, but you can't pick your name as an adult? Who even decides what gender a name is appropriate for?

I was so skeptical about this that I tried to look it up, and I can't find anything about this. Do you have a reference or at least a specific state or instance of this happening? Like maybe somebody tried to claim it was fraud and denied it for that reason?
Hold on a sec....
 
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Doesn't look like there should be any issues for anyone to change their name legally. In the cases where there are restrictions, it strictly applies to whether one could change their gender marker or not, but as far as name changes go, you should still be able to do it providing you can get through the red tape required for you to change your name.

Even Oklahoma allows you to change your name to reflect your gender identity. Makes me interested to know how it is in other states.

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Especially when it's something like this, where there's no real harm if someone occasionally gets away with using a pass that isn't theirs. It's ridiculous they're checking legal IDs at all instead of just going by the provided picture IMO. My expensive gym has less stringent security.
More of a general jumping off point than a direct response since I'm perpetually late to the party, but:

My experience growing up in an impoverished area of Ohio is that 100% of scenarios where ID is required are deliberate attempts at discrimination of one variety or another. The very act of getting a State ID, in fact, is incredibly rigged and discriminatory - it's not about proving someone's identity, it's about having a legal avenue of excluding and denying people basic, and oftentimes essential, services.

There's no "fraud" or whatever to commit at a movie theater either, so their justification falls flat. Fixed prices on tickets via subscription are a solution to a problem that the theaters themselves created, because they wanted to wring more money out of people at specific times of day or justify having more/less staff at any given time. Everybody already knows that the concession stand is where a sizable amount of the money is made. Per:


The economics of concessions
Revenue from ticket sales is about a third larger than concessions sales, according to Wold. But theaters generate significantly more profitability from concessions than from ticket sales.

About half the money from ticket sales goes to studios, while theaters keep all concessions margins, which typically amount to more than 80%, Wold said. Marcus Theatres pulls in 44% of its total revenue from concessions, compared with 39% at Cinemark Theatres
and 36% at AMC.
Bonus: They apparently want to charge varying price now depending on each individual seat's view/angle? JESUS FUCKING CHRIST CAPITALISTS ARE MORONS.

So I'm not sure, even if they were super duper concerned about people sharing passes like Netflix is about people sharing accounts (which, by the by, is/was still stupid), that it would have any material effect?

There's the consideration for the spirit of a rule versus the letter of it, too. Any manager that looks at the ID of someone, can clearly see that at minimum they are very probably related, and still denies them - much less without a full cash refund, none of this store credit horseshit Jesus Christ 😂 - deserves to have their jaw shattered on the spot. That's some low-level goon given a tiny amount of authority and going to town on it, even before considering any potential for bigotry. Ain't nobody got time for that; people in this country routinely get gunned down for less. I'd consider it doing them a favor before they spout off to the wrong person. :giggle


Look at this shit. LOOK AT THIS SHIT. The UK introduced a bill at 2:58pm and PASSED it at 4PM on the same day that outright bans puberty blockers ONLY IN THE CASE OF GENDER DYSPHORIA in the entire UK for anyone under 18.
Didn't watch the video, but I saw this crop up yesterday. I believe they specifically did this right before parliament goes on a 3-month break/vacation, so there is literally zero recourse for anyone. And from what I was scanning comment-wise, while it sounded like people already on blockers would be permitted to stay on them the various requirements (birth certificate, ID, et al) made it functionally impossible or at least opened the person, their family and their pharmacy/pharmacist to direct targeting. :shake

There's a throughput here that leads to black market situations/scenarios, and that should worry everyone.
 
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Didn't watch the video, but I saw this crop up yesterday. I believe they specifically did this right before parliament goes on a 3-month break/vacation, so there is literally zero recourse for anyone. And from what I was scanning comment-wise, while it sounded like people already on blockers would be permitted to stay on them the various requirements (birth certificate, ID, et al) made it functionally impossible or at least opened the person, their family and their pharmacy/pharmacist to direct targeting. :shake

There's a throughput here that leads to black market situations/scenarios, and that should worry everyone.
I said that to Crystal earlier on Discord. I said that trans people will now have to seek out their options on the black market and that it's pathetic that they only avenue of getting the care they need is through self-medicating.

This is why having trans healthcare established is essential. So people can go through the process of transitioning with the help of medically-trained professionals. People who have the tools, knowledge, and experience in that field.

I guarantee you we're also going to see suicide rates skyrocket because of this, but the Tories won't give a shit. This is what they want.
 

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I said that to Crystal earlier on Discord. I said that trans people will now have to seek out their options on the black market and that it's pathetic that they only avenue of getting the care they need is through self-medicating.
Time is a flat circle and all that, sadly. Society/humanity is just literally incapable of learning from their mistakes.

Or, rather, all of the shit and vile invariably makes its way to the top, like oil resting upon water, and those assholes are the ones incapable of learning. The French had the right idea, once upon a time.

I guarantee you we're also going to see suicide rates skyrocket because of this, but the Tories won't give a shit. This is what they want.
Correct. Genocide is the point; trans folk succumbing to suicide just speeds up the process as far as they're concerned. :ugh
 
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Time is a flat circle and all that, sadly. Society/humanity is just literally incapable of learning from their mistakes.

Or, rather, all of the shit and vile invariably makes its way to the top, like oil resting upon water, and those assholes are the ones incapable of learning. The French had the right idea, once upon a time.
Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and boy, are we ever close to repeating it. :sad

Correct. Genocide is the point; trans folk succumbing to suicide just speeds up the process as far as they're concerned. :ugh
Everyone else be damned. This law even affects cis women who need to take hormones due to an imbalance, and as Crystal pointed out on Discord, they don't understand what gender affirming care is. Again, not that they care. Whatever it takes to wipe trans people off the face of the Earth, by any means necessary.
 

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My experience growing up in an impoverished area of Ohio is that 100% of scenarios where ID is required are deliberate attempts at discrimination of one variety or another. The very act of getting a State ID, in fact, is incredibly rigged and discriminatory - it's not about proving someone's identity, it's about having a legal avenue of excluding and denying people basic, and oftentimes essential, services.
Sometimes that's the case, but 100% of the time? There's never any reason to establish someone's identity? Yeah, some people find it difficult to get one, but I don't see any way a movie theatre would benefit from intentionally excluding those people. Probably they're mostly too broke to go to the movies anyway.

It's a lot more likely the theatre is struggling financially and has incompetent management that thinks people abusing the passes is somehow the cause of their financial woes.

Most instances of things like this aren't malice, but rather a lack of knowledge and empathy about how it affects minorities. It's still shitty, the manager should've made an exception, but that doesn't mean the policy or this action was done out of malice.

IMO the real problem in this situation is that it's such a hardship for that woman to get an ID with a name she feels comfortable using that she hasn't done so already. The theater is being dumb and carelessly harming people, but asking for ID isn't some generally horrible act. I personally had no idea changing your name was so difficult and expensive until this conversation, so I imagine the vast majority of people don't know it either.

There's no "fraud" or whatever to commit at a movie theater either, so their justification falls flat. Fixed prices on tickets via subscription are a solution to a problem that the theaters themselves created
There's not fraud in the sense that would ever be legally prosecuted, but it's certainly "deception for financial gain" to share a subscription meant for a single person. I agree with you that this isn't helping them, they've brought it on themselves by pricing the subscription in a way that it's not profitable for people to actually use it fully despite the limits they've put on it. It's a normal and reasonable thing to sell a subscription service meant to be used by a single person though.

IDK if anybody remembers this or was even aware of it, but the subscription thing was originally done by a third party. You could spend a flat monthly fee to see as many movies as you wanted, and even though the third party was presumably buying the tickets at full price (because how could they possibly force the theatre to give them discounted tickets?), all the theaters completely lost their shit over it and did everything in their power to prevent people from using it. IIRC it eventually shuttered on its own because it wasn't profitable at a price point people were willing to pay, then theaters all implemented their own version of it... Despite the fact that it hadn't even been successful. So it's even more stupid they couldn't foresee the financial problems with the program and are resorting to ID checks.

AMC isn't in my area, but half the time when I go to Regal, there isn't even anybody making sure you have a ticket at all. Even if there is, it's usually trivial to get past them without showing a ticket. I wonder if all of AMC is so anal about it or if it's one rogue dipshit manager.

Correct. Genocide is the point; trans folk succumbing to suicide just speeds up the process as far as they're concerned. :ugh
I don't believe this to be generally true. The vast majority of people would be horrified by any child killing themselves, regardless of whether they're trans. They just don't believe the policy will lead to that. Obviously that position is wrong and incredibly harmful, but they're mostly thinking "if we hammer home the message that you should accept your body as it is, they'll grow out of it and be fine." The average person doesn't know much, if anything, about being trans. They don't realize it's different from being uncomfortable with your weight or your height or things like that.

I'm not making excuses for them. It's completely inexcusable for legislators to not be informed on a topic before legislating, and especially anybody in politics must've surely at least heard that suicide is a risk of policies like this. It's unconscionable to play with people's lives like that without seriously considering the possible consequences. I'm only saying this because when we start with the mindset of "the cruelty is the point", it becomes an intractable situation. Most people would have a different position if reality could penetrate their thick skulls. Not all people unfortunately, but most are not out to see trans people dead, they are just dangerously ignorant. That's a problem that can be fixed more easily than hatred.
 
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I don't believe this to be generally true. The vast majority of people would be horrified by any child killing themselves, regardless of whether they're trans. They just don't believe the policy will lead to that. Obviously that position is wrong and incredibly harmful, but they're mostly thinking "if we hammer home the message that you should accept your body as it is, they'll grow out of it and be fine." The average person doesn't know much, if anything, about being trans. They don't realize it's different from being uncomfortable with your weight or your height or things like that.

I'm not making excuses for them. It's completely inexcusable for legislators to not be informed on a topic before legislating, and especially anybody in politics must've surely at least heard that suicide is a risk of policies like this. It's unconscionable to play with people's lives like that without seriously considering the possible consequences. I'm only saying this because when we start with the mindset of "the cruelty is the point", it becomes an intractable situation. Most people would have a different position if reality could penetrate their thick skulls. Not all people unfortunately, but most are not out to see trans people dead, they are just dangerously ignorant. That's a problem that can be fixed more easily than hatred.
Genocide is absolutely the point in all this. It's not just the kids that are being targeted by anti-trans legislation, but adults too. Look at what's being done to ban any sort of educational material on the matter. Look at the bills proposed to bring in laws that ban trans women from womens' spaces, laws that prohibit them from getting the healthcare they need, laws that attempt to define one's gender as their assigned sex at birth, and so forth. When the intent is clearly to remove them from public life, then yeah, that's classified as genocide.

The whole argument of this being done to "protect the kids/women" can be thrown out the window as far as I'm concerned. Especially when people already have went on record to openly advocate for genocide.
 

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Sometimes that's the case, but 100% of the time? There's never any reason to establish someone's identity?
Well, the primary issue is that commercial business aren't establishing anyone's identity. The minimum wage worker at the movie theater or the grocery store are just looking at a name or a date on the laminated plastic card they're handed. They aren't even keeping a record of it after the glance; it's an inconvenient show for "normal" people at best.

But the people I grew up with aren't "normal" and have had all sorts of trouble getting or maintaining a State ID, which itself is functionally just a substitute for carrying other forms of identification anyway. And there aren't really any scenarios in which one can validate their identity using just their State ID, sometimes not even with the State itself. You basically always need multiple forms of identification - Social Security Number, proof of address, something with your picture - for things like that, and the State ID is either an option or a requirement on top (see: bank accounts).

For this incident in particular - why is the State ID required? Why did they not ask for their account number? Or why was the AMC card itself insufficient, assuming the AMC account can't have multiple cards? Or can it? IDK. If it can, why? Why are they inviting the possibility of people getting reduced fee tickets they don't "qualify" for? I mean clearly it's a big fucking deal if they gotta check State IDs and make sure every T and I in a person's name is identical, right? Why did they not just ask to see the credit/debit card that paid for the account? I mean, fuck, their own internal system should be capable of confirming that the subscription and the point of sale ticket were from the same card to begin with. Or did the person pay in cash for the ticket? ...But then they should've been given that cash back, instead of receiving store credit, right?

There are so many possible ways to go about this and none of them involve outside resources. The company got money, that's all that they should be concerned with. Everything else is just bullshit, y'know? The fact that it was a trans person is immaterial; this shouldn't happen to anyone, for any reason, period. But it does, and not just in this situation.

Yeah, some people find it difficult to get one, but I don't see any way a movie theatre would benefit from intentionally excluding those people. Probably they're mostly too broke to go to the movies anyway.

It's a lot more likely the theatre is struggling financially and has incompetent management that thinks people abusing the passes is somehow the cause of their financial woes.
But, you just described the problem - systemic oppression. Which is, by default, not actively malicious... until you run into it. :giggle

The business benefits by not having dirty poors within their establishment; by maintaining a level of "decorum" so that their well-to-do patrons feel safe and welcome in. It doesn't matter that the poor man has enough money to buy a ticket after saving up some money, he's not actually welcome and should know his place and station. Modern society likes to dress up their pig, but things have not really changed much from the days of full racial segregation - we merely hide it a little better, accept it as the reasonable lay of the land because the Rule of Law is just and sensible or some shit like that.

Consider, for a moment, what kind of clientele is primarily excluded from an establishment that doesn't handle cash and is done exclusively through cards. And, perhaps, not even just cards, but cards with chips or contactless functionality - stuff that, you know, maybe begins to show up in poorer areas a bit slower and later. And is probably too high-brow for (most types of) pre-paid debit or gift cards. It's not a coincidence; it's everywhere. "It's convenient" only really applies if you're part of the in group. In fact, the opposite is always jarring - I actually had to go to an ATM to withdraw a $20 bill for my emissions test a couple years back because the business they were cash only. It was kind of annoying actually... but then I thought about it and got annoyed at myself instead. Now I just keep four $10 bills in the glove compartment. :tease

IMO the real problem in this situation is that it's such a hardship for that woman to get an ID with a name she feels comfortable using that she hasn't done so already. The theater is being dumb and carelessly harming people, but asking for ID isn't some generally horrible act. I personally had no idea changing your name was so difficult and expensive until this conversation, so I imagine the vast majority of people don't know it either.
Yeah, but changing your name isn't the only way the State IDs suck - and doesn't suck just for trans folk. State IDs are de facto political at this point; Voter Suppression laws need State IDs to be as difficult and annoying and obnoxious to obtain as humanly possible. You cannot, for example, get a State ID if you don't have a place of residence. If you're homeless you don't have a place of residence, but just because you're homeless doesn't mean you aren't staying somewhere. Right? But you cannot, for example, use the address of a shelter in order to obtain a State ID - and you can't apply to rent an apartment without a State ID.

Or, if you've been in jail/prison for a bit, your State ID has most likely been lost or otherwise expired - you're now free, but you may temporarily be without an address. So no State ID for you. And a State ID is required to open a bank account, and more and more businesses only want to do direct deposit and not have physical paychecks, and of course you need the State ID to apply for various types of government benefits - Food Stamps, Section 8, Medicaid.

So lots and lots of people are ostensibly at risk of being excluded by practices like this. But, obviously, you're right that the core issue is that getting the ID to begin with - and making quick and easy edits and adjustments afterwards - is the biggest and most central problem. Capital simultaneously wants to undermine government and be wholly dependent upon it for all of its dumb systems and loopholes and shortcuts. The more you dig into it, or think about it, the less sense anything makes. :rofl

AMC isn't in my area, but half the time when I go to Regal, there isn't even anybody making sure you have a ticket at all. Even if there is, it's usually trivial to get past them without showing a ticket. I wonder if all of AMC is so anal about it or if it's one rogue dipshit manager.
It's been the same at my hometown Regal since I was a kid, yeah. Teens theater hopping all day on the weekend, employees and security never gave a fuck. They'd even give you a refund for the ticket you bought if you left the movie ~10 minutes before the end, and had bought popcorn or something, just to save everyone the hassle. Plus, again, concessions > tickets. If you're there all day you're definitely gonna be hitting that concession stand, and it's not like - especially these days - the theater is losing money because you're taking someone's seat. The last couple of movies I've gone to see with my partner and her family were ~25% capacity, max. :chuckle

I don't believe this to be generally true. The vast majority of people would be horrified by any child killing themselves, regardless of whether they're trans. They just don't believe the policy will lead to that.
...
I'm only saying this because when we start with the mindset of "the cruelty is the point", it becomes an intractable situation. Most people would have a different position if reality could penetrate their thick skulls. Not all people unfortunately, but most are not out to see trans people dead, they are just dangerously ignorant. That's a problem that can be fixed more easily than hatred.
For an alarming number, and especially for those in power, I unfortunately don't know that the distinction matters. Conservative ideology is honestly just wholesale evil, it's not just limited to any one issue. And whether it's a US Republican or a UK Tory/Conservative, they aren't held accountable nor taken to task by anyone within their party - so, end of the day, the cruelty is the point. It's simply not about making lives better, only ever making somebody's life worse.

If a trans child succumbs to suicide, and someone's reaction is that the policy they pushed wasn't the fault but the child was "too weak" or that I, as an adult trans person, am to blame - even if they don't specifically say that I should be killed as a consequence of this determination - then there's no commonality. Those people just want all trans people dead, and nothing we say or do will change their minds. Not all of them have to be in favor of killing me themselves, but if they aren't specifically against people doing that to me then, ultimately, what they're saying is that it's acceptable. And the number of In Favor and Undecided, as it were, is just way, way, way too goddamn high.


None of these people were held accountable, and they never will be. Most if not all will just get reelected. Society won't even stop and notice; Nex Benedict is not a name the general public knows or cares about already. Fuck, it's not a trans matter, but you could probably poll the general public about George Floyd at this point and a depressingly large percentage won't remember. :shake
 
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