Ok, Ok, Let's Talk Trans

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Pfft, no judgment here. You're welcome to all the creativity you want!

It's Saturday though, so for me ideas like "productive" and "creative" sound an awful lot like "I'm dragging my dumb ass back into bed."


I dunno, this is beginning to sound like a challenge now...! If we have a character/word count, I haven't hit it... yet. We can go further?!

Was there ever a cap on the original board? Surely not in the twilight years with all those tables being functional, but it's been so long. Memory is failing!

There's a cap, but I set it quite high

Yup! It's super, super important to make sure we get the name juuust right. Simple and (fairly) common is usually best.

Yep, precisely. I wanted something that was different from...him, but felt like me. It took A LOT of soul searching, and even though it's similar to...him...it's me. It fits me, it IS me.

I know a lot of people choose variants of their birth name, some ask their parents to rename them, others choose to name themselves after people or media that means a lot to them. Or some combination of those!

Yeah, I thought about a more direct variant of my name, but...eww.

I didn't know it at the time, but my name chose me just as much as I chose it. It's - I don't necessarily believe in destiny or fate or anything like that. But if I did, uh... yeah, it was meant to be.

I feel like @Rachel may facepalm (again?) when she puts two and two together on this lol

I love the name Raine, it's a great name and it suits you well!

is it a FFVIII reference

For your amusement I am going to re-enact my thought process

Me: Okay cool we have a new GW member (not looking at post count or being a GW elder)
Me: Wow this person posts a lot around here
Me: Okay Raine I know a Rain at work who is trans
Me: Okay this person is posting in the trans thread, maybe they are trans too?? That's a coincidence
Me: This new person likes FFXIV, neat (lmaooo)
Me: I wonder if this is another IRL Crystal friend who joined
Me: Ohhhhh

Well strictly speaking she is a friend of mine

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

The gauntlet officially has been thrown! I just need a good, juicy question now.
My partner constantly teases me, saying I'm trying to write War and Peace with these posts lol.

lol, War and Peace would be a fitting adaptation in some threads

It does! It's a beautiful name and perfectly suits you.

Aww, thank you

I legitimately actually had a Berenstein Bears/Mandela Effect crisis of faith when we first got together on Discord and I saw "Crystal" pop up. Like I basically never look at people's profiles, so I wracked my brain for a good while - it fit, it worked, it was natural. How had I not connected the dots before that you were using a male-passing name variant to avoid harassment?! How could I be such an ass to a kind, hard-working soul? Had I ever misgendered you?? I was so embarrassed because obviously you were a woman, now that I was confronted with such simple proof of my mistake.

You're going to make me cry now, lol. I thought I did a decent job of passing as a guy before, but yeah, once the veil is lifted I suppose I am a bit obvious. Truth will out, and all that.

So if you have a case of imposter syndrome anytime soon, just remember that. It was - and is - super, super obvious!

It still doesn't feel that way to me, lol. I just feel like I come across as a guy playing the role of a woman, and I know when I SEE me I feel that very strongly.

Completely understandable, yeah! You know my birthname, there aren't any really good, close female variants for it. But if there were, I think I would be the same in not wanting one too close.

Absolutely, I'm happy I went with a departure, even though it's still close. I would be second-guessing my name constantly if I'd been any closer and it wouldn't feel like me. Crystal is me. 100% me. I'm glad you found you, and that it's a name that connects with you. I think it's a truly beautiful name.

Exactly!

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

One facet of "everyone on the internet is a guy" is that it's kind of hard to tell sometimes how good or bad a job of camouflaging you're doing, y'know? Like unless we start dropping hints or correcting people, especially anywhere a prior history exists, it's kind of more forward momentum carrying the assumption than anything else. It's like with GWF here, where if someone hadn't looked at my introduction thread, the early thread from Fool's Requiem about GWF's long-term prospects (that we then proceeded to derail lol) or this thread, I... don't think they could really know? So, while playing in the first few wolf games, it was fascinating watching everyone's needle on me shift.

That's a good point, short of having a particularly feminine username, avatar and posting style it would be quite difficult to just point at someone and say "that's a woman!" We're all just names and text, after all, but there is definitely that presumption of masculinity until proven otherwise. I suppose that did indeed play into me hiding a bit better than I probably otherwise would have.

Now, I'm not saying you did a bad job either! Just more... throughout our years of interacting and working on the community together, I had the sudden realization that "Apollo" was not decidedly in the Austin Powers category, if you will. Insert "wait am I projecting again" concerns and all of the rest, and... yup.

I think we might have a little bit better of a radar for spotting people in a similar boat to ourselves, lol. We know what we're looking for, so to speak, so when we see someone we *think* might be trans, or at least otherwise gender non-conforming, the signs are more obvious than they might be for someone else. You probably saw in me back then the things you saw in yourself and realized we were in a similar position, even if it took a while to fully understand and embrace what that meant. Imagine if we'd known then what we know now...could've pushed each other

Mmhm, I definitely understand that. I think some of the coping and deescalation exercises from severe anxiety help with that. Learning the ability to, say, mentally disassociate to some small degree and gain perspective that your mind's spiraling only because you see the entirety of your own existence at all times. Whereas people that aren't you only see portions and glimpses and don't have the fully history - good, bad, everything in between - staring them in the face constantly. They do not, actually, remember (or have any way of knowing) that time I called Hutchinson the C-word and, therefore, that will/can not influence their opinion of me. You know?

Yeah, that's very true, and I guess that's why my opinion of me will always be horrible while others don't see what I see. I see you and I see a wonderful person that I'm glad I get to chat with, but I know your own opinion of you is going to be different from me. The same is true on this end...I really hate me and I don't know how others tolerate me, lol.

Which on the subject of Hutchinson I promise this won't be a thousand-word tangent... probably..., I'm really super disappointed in women like her. Female powerlifters/bodybuilders - fuck, even (especially!) "simply" muscular women like Serena Williams - know what it's like to not fit society's extraordinarily rigid definition of what a woman is. I don't know if Hutchinson herself has ever been - or, with the way things are going, will be in the near future - misgendered herself, but she's flinging boulders in a glass house.

It makes the fact that she constantly attacks and misgenders her ex-friend, that she prior to talking about a different trans woman with didn't even know was trans, sting just that much worse. And Andres isn't what we would nominally call "passing," although counterintuitively she is/does in part because of her profession that people now want to take from her.

The transphobes that out themselves, either intentionally or unintentionally through their actions just staggers me. The level of ignorance, and to turn on someone or make someone feel unwanted because of a label? Disgraceful. It's fine not to like trans people, we're not everyone's kettle of fish, but common decency shouldn't be such a rare commodity.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Ain't that the truth! I think I was talking with Rachel about this and haven't posted anything to the effect on GWF, but - I didn't know the first thing about any of this for so, so long. I mean I've always been accepting, supportive and protective of people I perceive as being bullied or harassed or whatever. That's just how I am.

Buuut I couldn't have begun to tell you what "transgender" meant, how or if that was different from "transexual," what "transvestite" really was - that's all just, like, cross-dressing and Drag Queens and stuff right? "I mean, no offense, but that's not really my thing and I don't think I really need an informed opinion on any of that to be friends with y'all." and all that jazz, y'know? I'm certain I've said that to someone in a past life.

I've said similar things, but only as a deflection. I knew pretty young something was up and I spent most of my young life trying to figure it out. I stumbled across the words transsexual when I was 12 and that was the first box ticked. Then of course PC culture moves forward, words change, definitions change, but for the most part it was all trans. Trans people in movies were jokes, of course, to be laughed at. Silly men in dresses, but it wasn't the reality of the situation and I knew their struggle so much. I wanted to join them, but it was impossible, my family weren't going to accept THAT! So I stayed quiet, but I knew. I knew for so, so long who I was. I denied it, denied it, denied it and fought against it, but I knew. I understand not knowing and not thinking about it being the answer, because who would honestly WANT to be trans? I sure don't! But it's something you wrestle with constantly, as you know. I'm glad you finally started digging and found the answers, and I'm glad you managed to stick with things just long enough for this idiot to drag you back into GWF, because you're a great person and I'm glad to have found another sister (or two! @Fire Queen ) to share the journey with. It's a shitty journey, and a very, very long one, but knowing there are people there you can turn to or just talk with makes it so much better.

It makes me look back on people like SElsner/Emily coming out years back, and how I wish I'd had the courage to reach out and let her know she wasn't alone, but I was so repressed, so scared. I know she has her own support structure now, and that's awesome, but I do kick myself for not even reaching out in private to offer some support. Emily, Eva, and any other old GW members (or not GW members) that are trans, if you ever see this -- we're here for you, join us!

So imagine my surprise when, in late 2013 or so, one of my guildmates pulls me aside after raid night and drops the "Hey, um... are you like me?" bomb. And, of course, I have literally no idea what she means. So she's sitting here for like half an hour trying to explain some of this to me, and how I've been throwing signs for the past several months, and... I'm just not understanding. I don't get it. You could beat me upside the head with a crowbar and that nail just wasn't gonna stick.

lol, I played that trick on someone intentionally. I have no idea what you're talking about, no, it's not me! When they caught on I was terrified, I overcompensated so damn hard! Kind of feel stupid about that, but she was good about it after I did come out, lol.

Eventually, she seems satisfied (that I'm an idiot) but suggests I look into some of it to be a better guildmaster and friend to the 3~4 trans women I've got in our group. And so that's how I began to be corrupted and indoctrinated by The Radical Trans Agenda™.

...For as perceptive as I can be, I am too stupid to count to potato most of the time.

Support your sisters! Turn trans!

Haha, indeed. I can only imagine the hijinks that could've arisen! If I knew, I absolutely would've been nagging you constantly to be happy. I'm quite good at it!

I'd have pushed you just as hard, hon . I enjoy being a support structure for my trans brothers and sisters. It's nice to know there are people who care.

I think, ultimately, I'm okay with my journey so far. Obviously I would've liked to, y'know, have a little more youth experience, but... I mean I can't say I was particularly unstable in like '08/'09, but very much still a work in progress towards getting put back together. I've still spent more time being an Ally than I did being self-described Gender-Fluid, and longer in that state than accepting being a trans woman. And I think it did me good, so, I'll save the bitching and moaning for other things!

I hope one day I'll be able to be okay with my journey, as well. It's a struggle, but one day...

Well, not necessarily always! Your circumstances definitely play a huge role in the, shall we say, recovery process. Not being able to consistently and reliably spread your wings will postpone a lot of it and generate friction, and of course our current "political" climate can't be doing you any favors either. But you'll get there, I'm certain of it!

For me, it's like... I know I'm not a good person, nor do I truly understand how others tolerate me either, but I accept that I'm not quite the same person anymore. That no matter how much I would like to use what I know now to go back and undo some of the worst things I've ever done, I instead just need to be grateful that I managed to not directly kill anyone and have the opportunity to try and make amends with whatever time is available to me. ...Even if that's just making the number in the bottom-left corner of the reply box go up!

You are a good person, never doubt yourself.

Crystal I will drop nukes. I have the codes!

It's absolutely fine if people have reservations/don't want to have sex with trans folk.

...so there's this thing in Washington called Marjorie Talor-Greene...

*hands the button to Raine*

 

[Fire Queen]

first week of school is in full swing so i havent been able to read everything in detail but i saw name talk going down and i wanted to mention that there were multiple inspirations for my new name (Marina) including but not limited to knowing i wanted a name that started with M for some reason, having an affinity for the ocean, but it wouldnt have been on the list without the dancing little robot girl who's my av here lol (Marina Liteyears from the N64 classic Mischief Makers)

 

[Rachel]

did any of you ever consider the name your parents would have given if born a girl?

I feel like that could also be another avenue for some people, though in my case my younger brother now has that name

My sons can feel free to ask me one day what the name would have been

It's just sitting there gathering dust in the corner

 

[Fire Queen]

so i actually have a fun story for this one! my parents didn’t decide on a name until late in the pregnancy so whenever i asked “what would you have named me if i were a girl” (which was often. wonder why!) i never really got an answer

the name they ended up going with was Tyler. it was going to be Tyler all the way up until the day i was born, when i came out the womb with my dad’s trademark cowlick. on the spot they decided to make me a Jr. and name me after him

when i legally changed my name, i needed a new middle name. i went with Tyler because it’s nice and gender neutral but mainly because it felt like taking back who i was always meant to be lol

 

[Crystal]

first week of school is in full swing so i havent been able to read everything in detail but i saw name talk going down and i wanted to mention that there were multiple inspirations for my new name (Marina) including but not limited to knowing i wanted a name that started with M for some reason, having an affinity for the ocean, but it wouldnt have been on the list without the dancing little robot girl who's my av here lol (Marina Liteyears from the N64 classic Mischief Makers)

Hope you're doing well and the kiddos aren't driving you around the bend!

Marina is a great name, and for someone that loves the ocean it's so perfect!

did any of you ever consider the name your parents would have given if born a girl?

I feel like that could also be another avenue for some people, though in my case my younger brother now has that name

My parents named me after I was born, they had no ideas so named me after my father and paternal grandfather. I hated the name from birth. Middle name not so much, because it was my grandfather's middle name and I never got the chance to know him except he was an RAF pilot.

My sons can feel free to ask me one day what the name would have been

It's just sitting there gathering dust in the corner

I do wonder what they would have picked for me, but at the same time they got my birth name so wrong I don't want to know at the same time, lol.

so i actually have a fun story for this one! my parents didn’t decide on a name until late in the pregnancy so whenever i asked “what would you have named me if i were a girl” (which was often. wonder why!) i never really got an answer

the name they ended up going with was Tyler. it was going to be Tyler all the way up until the day i was born, when i came out the womb with my dad’s trademark cowlick. on the spot they decided to make me a Jr. and name me after him

when i legally changed my name, i needed a new middle name. i went with Tyler because it’s nice and gender neutral but mainly because it felt like taking back who i was always meant to be lol

Aww, I love that! Tyler is a sweet name, and the story is perfect! Redemption

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

My mother had two amniotic sacs while pregnant with me (the running joke being that I ate my twin), so I didn't really need to ask since she already had boy and girl names at the ready. She wanted to name me Stephanie Jean. I am totally not Steph material.

You could be a Steph, but I really like Raine . My sister is Lorraine, she used to go by Lor because it was close to Lauryn, a name she liked. I used to call her Lor Raine lol. She was a total hippy, though.

I remember, yeah. I don't think I even really understood, say, the Ace Ventura trans panic moment at the time. And I definitely didn't understand whatever in the name of fuck Jerry Springer's bullshit was on about, I just knew it made me incredibly angry (which is saying a lot!) and I would always turn the TV to something else if I came in and that happened to be on.

Yeah, same. I hated seeing trans people made fun of, turned into jokes and freaks to be laughed at. Baseketball, Ace Ventura, Slap Shot 2, Little Nicky so many fun films ruined by trash like that.

I tried my mother's bra on, once. I don't remember exactly when. That's as close as I ever allowed myself to get - and of course I made myself pay for that multiple times over because that isn't what Men do. I honestly couldn't imagine the hell of actually knowing and understanding and not being able to do anything about it for so long. You're a strong woman, Crystal.

No, I'm definitely not. A strong woman wouldn't have stayed hidden. I'm a coward.

Are we sure we can reconcile these two things?

FUCK IT TOO LATE

View attachment 2561

Wheeeee!

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

This would probably not be a terribly uncommon outcome, all things considered! The Boho style is cute, at least.

Oh yeah. So, so many movies and comedy skits and whatnot that are super hard, if not impossible, to go back to and actually enjoy. I don't really feel like the jokes were even super acceptable things at the time, but certainly more commonly accepted.

Lest we forget Silence of the Lambs...every film that makes trans people hookers, films that show a trans woman as being incomplete until the moment of surgery, films showing trans women as people playing dress up, films that show trans women as being deceivers and traps...just...ugh.

All about perspective, love! You're choosing to remain hidden to protect your parents and take care of your mother. You're not obligated to do that. It's actually very, very easy to discard people; to not care about other's feelings and do what you want. The people that irrationally hate us do it all the time.

It's never been easy for me to discard people, but it is easy for me to be discarded by people.

It requires a certain strength to take care of others, to accept their burdens, especially at the cost of your own immediate happiness.

If I were strong I'd have lived my life long before now.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Ugh, indeed. And of course the thing is those don't/didn't all have to be bad things. I'm pro-sexworker, I'd totally consider being a hooker escort for a spell if I was young and remotely had the looks for it! Gotta be a little more enjoyable than the current daily grind, right?! No I'm lying, but no shame for anyone that does lol

Oh I'm not anti-sexworker, but suggesting it's all we can do is a slap in the face.

The issue, of course, is there being virtually zero positive depictions, especially back then. Caricature after caricature, butt of joke after joke, and the rare supporting character that may be ever-so-slightly nonconforming meeting with a bad fate or winding up turning into a villain.

Yeah, very very very very true.

It's like the lack of trans-centric comedy discussion from a couple pages back. There's lots of room to explore here! But, nope, same two jokes on repeat from the same types of dipshits...

Why do new and innovative, inclusive things when you can go back to the well for cheap laughs?

Anyway have more cats!

View attachment 2571

Well that's presumably got something to do with not being a goddamn sociopath, so... +1 in the Good Person category!

Eh, not so much

You have to power up first though, right? Could take a couple episodes.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Oh yeah, no, I know. Sexworkers are another group of people that are basically routinely mistreated, is all. Kind of a two-fer there.

Oh most definitely

I've never seen/heard of this before. What in awkward green screen hell am I watching.

I'm so here for it!

That means you've never seen Kung Fury! A travesty we must immediately rectify!

 

[Crystal]

This is how the truly bad things happen.

Nebraska Governor Signs Bill Erasing Trans People from Law

Following the lead of other conservative states, the “Women’s Bill of Rights” defines gendered terms based on biological sex.

www.metroweekly.com

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Oh look, it's a man telling women what they can('t) be.

This is my shocked face.

...I trust by now y'all know what the remainder of the post looks like and I'll once more refrain from actually typing it. lol

I've got people calling me a child groomer on a different forum because I'm trans, now they're using this as proof I'm a guy in a dress. Fun.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

It's always going to be the same shit from the same dipshits, unfortunately. Projection is the entirety of their existence. Anyone that obsessed with child grooming should never be allowed around children.

AGREED!!!! They don't genuinely give a damn about kids, they just want to further the agenda they've been sold on by their right wing heroes.

If the "law" was so perfect and irrefutable, I'm sure they were first in line to get their COVID vaccines. I'm sure they never resisted wearing a simple surgical mask. I'm totally positive they don't hoard guns because they need them to fight/kill the government.

Oh for sure! They're so in line with the law. Totes.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Yup. See it time and time and time again. Real fuckin' sick of it.

Preach!

I will espouse my socialist propaganda anytime, anywhere as a matter of consequence - you cannot care about children unless you care what happens to both them and their parents (mother especially in current climate) after they pop outta the goddamn womb.

The what? What's a parent? Why do they matter?!? Only I matter with my mighty opinion!

OH GOD I NEED MIND BLEACH

Jan6 was delicious schadenfreude. For all the wrong reasons, but still.

Sadly.

 

[Crystal]

So random moment for the day -- a friend, who is a part of the LGBTQ community, felt it was important to point out to me that someone I have a disagreement with is gender non-binary. I sort of understand, but...is someone being non-binary supposed to excuse them being an absolute prick? I'm thinking no, but maybe I'm being a bitch about it?

Anyway, posting this here because it's in the ballpark and it's stuck on my mind.

 

[shortkut]

So random moment for the day -- a friend, who is a part of the LGBTQ community, felt it was important to point out to me that someone I have a disagreement with is gender non-binary. I sort of understand, but...is someone being non-binary supposed to excuse them being an absolute prick? I'm thinking no, but maybe I'm being a bitch about it?

Anyway, posting this here because it's in the ballpark and it's stuck on my mind.

It’s only an issue if the reason you are disagreeing is because they are non-binary. Same for any form of bigotry. I can dislike someone who is a different age/gender/race/religion/sexuality or I can dislike someone for those reasons. Big difference

 

[Crystal]

It’s only an issue if the reason you are disagreeing is because they are non-binary. Same for any form of bigotry. I can dislike someone who is a different age/gender/race/religion/sexuality or I can dislike someone for those reasons. Big difference

No, I disagree because the person is a total prick, not because of gender identity issues.

 

[shortkut]

No, I disagree because the person is a total prick, not because of gender identity issues.

I had to reread this twice because I thought you were disagreeing with me and was about to tell you off because we are saying the same thing

 

[Crystal]

I had to reread this twice because I thought you were disagreeing with me and was about to tell you off because we are saying the same thing

There's plenty of reason to tell me off, but for once I wasn't being a bitch

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Given they're a friend and we're presuming good faith, then: If you're calling the person a prick, they're probably cautioning about lobbing gendered criticism/insults at an Enby. Consider how different "bitch" tends to land when addressed towards women, or why only men get called pussies (...and the oft-nuclear warhead that is the C-word for ladies). Very easy to mean one thing and have it interpreted as something else entirely, especially during already heated discourse.

It's why I stick with the butt. Everyone has a butt, so shithead and piece of shit are inclusive. Also I have a fucking potty mouth.

I have sincere doubts that this particular person IS actually an Enby, not because I'm being an ass about it, but because they've always been "he/him," guy, dude, etc. right up until the point where they started trolling me. Now suddenly, out of nowhere, it's a they/them situation and they want me to respect their gender identity? I'm calling it for what it is, total bullshit and trolling. I just don't like that this is the card being played in response because of who is on the receiving end. Why do that?

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

I can't pretend to understand the inner workings of low-effort internet trolls, unfortunately!

Same, I just don't understand most actions of trolls, they make no sense at all.

This seems like a losing proposition for the troll, though. If they aren't Enby, then... congratulations on emasculating yourself for internet fame points cred currency_not_found?

lol, could you imagine trying to go backwards from where we are now? Just kidding, I'm really a guy again! I swear I can explain the bras and panties, and no, these are just big round pecs!

Endgame unclear, when in doubt troll them harder.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Aye. I've never partaken of trolling for the sake of it... but I do get a kick out of trolling and undermining people blatantly doing it to others. It's just bullying as far as I'm concerned, and the best cure for a bully is a shiner.

Now that's a solid solution!

Indeed, indeed. Definitely did not think through this course of action.

Going to be hard to get that masculinity back, that's for sure. lol

"No but I'm special now, you can't insult me or you're a bigot!" as if that's how any of this works. As if that's why people like that probably get called bigot.

Right? Just throwing it out there to troll someone is pathetic, can't call me a bigot because suddenly I'm calling myself non-binary so YOU'RE the bigot. Stupid.

 

[Webster]

Saw this post over at Mastodon...

Mastodon

mastodon.social

--"I keep seeing folks saying that a trans lifestyle is being shoved down their throat. I have never had a trans person knock on my door and try to convert me. I have never had a trans person leave lit on my car. I've never had a trans person threaten me with fireif Idon't agree." - Jess Piper

 

[Crystal]

Saw this post over at Mastodon...

Mastodon

mastodon.social

--"I keep seeing folks saying that a trans lifestyle is being shoved down their throat. I have never had a trans person knock on my door and try to convert me. I have never had a trans person leave lit on my car. I've never had a trans person threaten me with fireif Idon't agree." - Jess Piper

100% accurate!

 

[Raine]

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[Mark]

Mmhm. "Being shoved down their throat" literally just means "seeing them at all," obviously. It's what they mean when they say that people can do whatever they want in their own bedrooms - only in their own bedrooms, where nobody has to see them *gasp* hold hands, kiss, lean on one another's shoulder, yadda yadda.

Like just existing as a gay man in television makes anything and everything he appears in "Woke," politely requesting the use of specific pronouns is infringing upon their right to call you whatever they please (you're not allowed to call them a TERF, or a bigot, or any -ist though!). I mean the whole toxic waste dump that is The Last of Us 2 discourse, that somehow still persists to this day including harassment campaigns, speaks for itself.

The irony that the Right-wing spheres talk/panic/word-salad more about trans folk than everyone else combined, thereby shoving us down their own throat, is not lost on me.

I ain’t gonna lie, I get the sentiment behind the statement… but it’s not unlike when black people, Asian people, or handicap people were taken off of the “too taboo for television” list. The only difference is, my understanding of it doesn’t come from a place of hatred or insecurity. For example… I saw a commercial for Dove deodorant the other day. Every panel in the television spectrum for diversity was lit up… black, white, Latina, redhead, vitiligo, and the real kicker… Downs Syndrome. I’m not against representation by any means, but tell me what exactly vitiligo and Downs Syndrome have to do with selling deodorant. That early 90’s approach to diversity (Magic Schoolbus, Captain Planet, and even the Burger King kid’s club) just doesn’t work (for me), and the only message I take away from it is the most literal translation I can… EVERYONE smells funny, use deodorant. I forget what company it is… but that point reminds me of another commercial I saw recently. “We make (product) for all people.” Keep it real, marketing people. It’s much more dignified that way, and doesn’t come across as pandering to this year’s marginalized group or overloading the inclusivity in a 45 second television spot selling… of all things… fucking deodorant.

 

[Raine]

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[Mark]

Haha, no, I feel you. Back to... some conversation or another we had, it's pure exploitation. Diversity sells because, well shucks, there are fewer Angry White Internet Men than there are everyone else. But it's absolutely just marketing ticking boxes in the most blatant and hamfisted of ways. See also: Whatever the fuck ABK was trying to do here.

I love that we’ve been at this long enough to where we can just reference other instances of talking shit and understand exactly what the other is referring to.

As with Rainbow Capitalism, my hope - the hope, ostensibly - is that seeing different types of people, different body shapes (WRT more curvy models), etc., will slowly, uhh... deprogram(?) people. Get them to acknowledge and accept that advertisements/Hollywood/social media influencers are mostly smoke and mirrors, that none of that is super realistic, sustainable or healthy.

It’s wishful thinking… but as it stands now, I see gay dudes in makeup commercials from time to time, and gay dudes marketing HIV treatment medications. I haven’t seen too much trans marketing, but, that’s likely because I don’t actively seek out platforms that rely on advertising and if I do… it’s targeted advertising. Did you know DUDE WIPES are 30% LARGER FOR MEN’S ASSHOLES, dude? Duuude. Whoooa.

…gimme my Huggies wipes with green tea and whatever the fuck, and leave me alone, big marketing MANager.

One would hope that the meaningless co-opted labels like "Woke" would die off too, but well, it'll just get replaced with something else. That also has no real meaning. Hey remember Cancel Culture, everyone?! Boy am I glad Bill Cosby got canceled and we never have to hear from him ag--ohh...

I REALLY thought for sure that half of my friends and myself were gonna get “cancelled” by a bunch of white chicks with too much time on their hands, but… here I am. Still white, still straight, still mansplaining my way through the idiocy I have to unpack every single day from the world we live in.

 

[Raine]

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[Mark]

Indeed. It's still "funny" that the most known instance of a trans person being in marketing, that led to a hilarious boycott on Bud Light, was... never actually seen by anyone. The power of The Radical Trans Agenda™ is too great, it must be stopped!

My favorite retort to that whole debacle came from a gay dude… “Big fucking deal, gays have been on beer cans since they put the Cowboys logo on it for the NFL.”

I did a Google search for "trans spokesperson" and the first hit, of course, is Dylan Mulvaney. I wonder how many of the jackasses that got upset about her personalized can would have been able to tell without being explicitly tipped off?

I’ll be honest… my first thought was “get Skeletor a goddamn sammich, that’s an ugly bitch” and that was solely off of one headshot where the neck wasn’t visible or anything, so in that context… not easy to distinguish. There are some very feminine looking straight men out there, and there are masculine looking chicks out there with a stronger jawline than I’d ever want, so something as rudimentary as a headshot does make it difficult. Seeing a full shot, she’s built like a teenage boy… which isn’t necessarily derogatory to the trans aspect of her when there are women out there built the same damn way.

The other, which I didn't actually know was a thing, is a former US journalist now acting as a spokesperson for the Ukranian Military by the name of Sarah Ashton-Cirillo. So this isn't even, like, advertising per se... but...

Yeeeah.

Well, considering your comment… I don’t need to say a damn thing, you get it. I WILL say I wanted to give you so much shit for “didn’t know was a thing”, though, but I resisted in favor of this… as an admitted funny looking person… that is an even funnier looking person.

I'm still being subjected to Raid Shadow Legends and Manscaped?!

I mean… at least Manscaped serves a unisex purpose. Raid? Unacceptable. Completely.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Exactly. It's not even that, like, they don't find her attractive enough, or she's not convincing enough, or... whatever. It's literally just that she has the "trans" qualifier attached to her and trans = bad to them. So they have to go bulldoze their year's supply of Bud Light that they already paid for.

So fucking stupid, the whole situation. It's like someone putting up a billboard advertisement for spaghetti and someone hating Italy enough to destroy the whole billboard. There's a glass, dipshits. Pour out Mulvaney's juices and throw the visage away if you're THAT offended. Fuck.

Still hilarious how many people went around destroying beer they purchased, though. ...and the hypocrites that were later photographed enjoying said beer.

Passes a whole hell of a lot more than I do, at any rate!

I feel that. So very much.

 

[Raine]

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[Crystal]

Imagine hating spaghetti. The nerve and audacity alone! This is several magnitudes more serious than pineapple on pizza.

Right?!? The nerve!!

In a post-Twitch, girl-sells-bathwater world: PHRASING

lol, yep, I know where you're going and that's why I went there first

Always, always, always happens.

They're literally nothing but projection. Anything they accuse someone else of, I guarantee you they're actually doing. In this case, "virtue signaling."

They're just jealous of trans women because we're open about wearing bras and panties, those bitches are stuck pretending they've never done it, lol