Zell Wolf Not Zell Wolf 2 Day 4

[Smacktard]

Unless he was Shaman/Trickstered. Though I believe Shaman is night selection, so only really trickster. Which would have had to have been done BLINDLY and under the assumption the trickster disguise goes off before the detective check (it's not in the order of operations so we don't know).

Long way of saying, I completely agree with you. He's almost certainly the real trickster that was hit day one.

We had this discussion yesterday. Zell confirmed dimmerwit was on a different team. Auras are not swapped before death

 

[Ants!]

Another piece of info gathered if Ants is the lynch

I'm starting to lean on this: kill Quagmire first. He comes back as wolf, it confirms my role a lot more. And then if he just happens to be the shaman wolf, that will make me more willing to thing Alu might be legit (and a spectacular play by shaman-Quagmire last night).

Unless he was Shaman/Trickstered. Though I believe Shaman is night selection, so only really trickster. Which would have had to have been done BLINDLY and under the assumption the trickster disguise goes off before the detective check (it's not in the order of operations so we don't know).

Long way of saying, I completely agree with you. He's almost certainly the real trickster that was hit day one.

NO. Two things:

1. Shaman fucks with aura. Not TEAMS. Detective check looks at teams.
2. Trickster doesn't take effect until the moment of death, so it also doesn't affect the detective check.

I've repeated both of those things multiple times.

DIMMERWIT CAN NOT BE THE PREACHER IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

 

[VashTheStampede]

It's a damn shame we killed the Preacher day 1 though

 

[Ants!]

It's a damn shame we killed the Preacher day 1 though

what does a seer apprentice do

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Seer Apprentice
Aura: Good
Initially has no powers or abilities. However, if a seer dies, the apprentice will transform into their role during the day. The following roles count as "seers" for this ability: Aura Seer, Detective, Sheriff, Spirit Seer, Violinist. If the person the Apprentice transformed into is revived, the Apprentice will revert back to an Apprentice with no powers.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

at least there's something I can do right...

 

[A Punched Face]

I'm starting to lean on this: kill Quagmire first. He comes back as wolf, it confirms my role a lot more. And then if he just happens to be the shaman wolf, that will make me more willing to thing Alu might be legit (and a spectacular play by shaman-Quagmire last night).

NO. Two things:

1. Shaman fucks with aura. Not TEAMS. Detective check looks at teams.
2. Trickster doesn't take effect until the moment of death, so it also doesn't affect the detective check.

I've repeated both of those things multiple times.

DIMMERWIT CAN NOT BE THE PREACHER IT IS NOT POSSIBLE.

I will happily kill Quagmire with you.

 

[Jon]

Fair enough. Either way, the sentiment is there, I never believed dimmerwit was the preacher.

I'm starting to lean on this: kill Quagmire first. He comes back as wolf, it confirms my role a lot more. And then if he just happens to be the shaman wolf, that will make me more willing to thing Alu might be legit (and a spectacular play by shaman-Quagmire last night).

The issue is if he is town we've essentially set us up for a big fat L because we're not going to catch wolves fast enough. Again, I lean on the side of making the play that gives us the MOST information.

Sadly, I still think that's you.

If you're good: so is Kat, Quagmire is bad, Alu is likely evil and we know 2 more wolves.

If you're bad: Kat is likely bad, Alu and Quagmire are likely good and we know 2 more wolves.

You could also just be trying to toss Quagmire as a sacrifice in perhaps and alpha/guardian play.

 

[Banana]

can someone elaborate on the implications of the dimmerwit thing for me? so if him and jon were opposite then he was either a wildcard or a wolf? im also not really following why the shaman wolf couldnt be involved for dimmerwit but someone else is using that as their defense?

 

[Ants!]

Trickster cannot be used on another werewolf. It's in the rules, and it would be silly to do that anyway. And he got lynched and the game did not end, so he can't be fool. So that leaves three options for Dimmerwit:

1. He was the original Trickster wolf
2. He was the cupid
3. He was the head hunter

Though so far all of us feel like there has to be a NV solo still at play, so I'm thinking Trickster is most likely.

 

[Banana]

but why cant he have been telling the truth about preacher? i thought that is where we were a couple days ago? sorry.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The issue is if he is town we've essentially set us up for a big fat L because we're not going to catch wolves fast enough.

Show me that math and I could be persuaded.

I've been operating under the assumption that Kelly is the Flagger and with you as an Avenger I thought we were in great shape.

 

[A Punched Face]

can someone elaborate on the implications of the dimmerwit thing for me? so if him and jon were opposite then he was either a wildcard or a wolf? im also not really following why the shaman wolf couldnt be involved for dimmerwit but someone else is using that as their defense?

Shaman doesn't change what team you appear on, just your aura. Trickster doesn't take until the person is actually killed.

Therefore dimmerwit and Jon need to be on not the same team, and Jon is confirmed town.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

but why cant he have been telling the truth about preacher? i thought that is where we were a couple days ago? sorry.

Because Zell found him to be on a different from Jon, who is the Avenger. dimmerwit can only be a wolf or a SV.

Edit: I ADDED CLARIFYING INFORMATION

 

[Banana]

Shaman doesn't change what team you appear on, just your aura. Trickster doesn't take until the person is actually killed.

Therefore dimmerwit and Jon need to be on not the same team, and Jon is confirmed town.

thats not how i interpreted it though? it says you will appear as the wolf shaman. is that just aura?

 

[Ants!]

Fair enough. Either way, the sentiment is there, I never believed dimmerwit was the preacher.


The issue is if he is town we've essentially set us up for a big fat L because we're not going to catch wolves fast enough. Again, I lean on the side of making the play that gives us the MOST information.

Sadly, I still think that's you.

If you're good: so is Kat, Quagmire is bad, Alu is likely evil and we know 2 more wolves.

If you're bad: Kat is likely bad, Alu and Quagmire are likely good and we know 2 more wolves.

You could also just be trying to toss Quagmire as a sacrifice in perhaps and alpha/guardian play.

Again, I'm fine with being killed to prove myself and damn two wolves. It was originally my idea anyway.

However, that is not my preference. What is your logic that killing me gives more information than killing Quagmire? His death confirms me one way or the other just as easily as mine does, and if he ends up being shaman then that is even more information and gives some credibility to Alu's claim, which is technically possible.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Again, I'm fine with being killed to prove myself and damn two wolves. It was originally my idea anyway.

no. I do not approve of this plan. We cannot afford to lynch townies. We don't know if they do or do not have an alpha wolf.

 

[Jon]

Show me that math and I could be persuaded.

I've been operating under the assumption that Kelly is the Flagger and with you as an Avenger I thought we were in great shape.

Right now there are 6 town (2 confirmed), 3 wolves (under the expectation dimmerwit was a wolf) and a SNV left. If we lynch Quagmire and he's town, it puts it at 5-3-1. Wolves kill another town at night. It's 4-3-1.

Town would have one guaranteed and one POSSIBLE extra kill (Avenger and BH) that have to SPECIFICALLY be targeted by the wolves, which they won't do. The wolves and headhunter can easily work together to lynch another town (by which point the wolves know pretty much everyone's roles) making it 3-3-1. Then the wolves kill the headhunter and win.

It's dangerous to lynch anything but a wolf today.

 

[Ants!]

thats not how i interpreted it though? it says you will appear as the wolf shaman. is that just aura?

...Well I'll be damned. I just checked and she's right. It does say "all seer roles". Why the hell did I think it was only shaman? And I was so damned smug about it. I'll eat all the crow, and the humble pie.

Still, that's a long shot that Dimmerwit got shamaned by random number, Zell picked him by random number, and then the trickster did his thing. That's a lot of dominoes falling exactly perfect for that scenario to work. I'm going to continue under the assumption that Dimmerwit was wolf or solo, that seems like a much more likely thing.

 

[A Punched Face]

...Well I'll be damned. I just checked and she's right. It does say "all seer roles". Why the hell did I think it was only shaman? And I was so damned smug about it. I'll eat all the crow, and the humble pie.

Still, that's a long shot that Dimmerwit got shamaned by random number, Zell picked him by random number, and then the trickster did his thing. That's a lot of dominoes falling exactly perfect for that scenario to work. I'm going to continue under the assumption that Dimmerwit was wolf or solo, that seems like a much more likely thing.

The trickster doing their thing is the easiest part of that. It's Zell and the Shaman picking the same number that would be the long odds. Slightly better than usual odds because Zell picked 2 numbers, but still long odds.

 

[Jon]

However, that is not my preference. What is your logic that killing me gives more information than killing Quagmire?

Because if he was shaman'd he could still be town. Same with Alu. Taking you out can confirm both of them. Whereas taking him out could only prove there is a shaman.

 

[Ants!]

no. I do not approve of this plan. We cannot afford to lynch townies. We don't know if they do or do not have an alpha wolf.

Then let's vote Quagmire and see if he's shaman. I'll go switch my vote now.

Right now there are 6 town (2 confirmed), 3 wolves (under the expectation dimmerwit was a wolf) and a SNV left. If we lynch Quagmire and he's town, it puts it at 5-3-1. Wolves kill another town at night. It's 4-3-1.

Town would have one guaranteed and one POSSIBLE extra kill (Avenger and BH) that have to SPECIFICALLY be targeted by the wolves, which they won't do. The wolves and headhunter can easily work together to lynch another town (by which point the wolves know pretty much everyone's roles) making it 3-3-1. Then the wolves kill the headhunter and win.

It's dangerous to lynch anything but a wolf today.

Okay, so you're scared of the risk that Quagmire is town.
But you're not scared that I might be town, and it fucks the numbers in the same way?

And either death confirms me. I'm fine with being killed but only if lynching Alu or Quagmire instead doesn't happen.

 

[Banana]

so forget odds for a second because its possible regardless of odds. that means there is a chance there are 4 wolves right? and if there are its going to be hard to get anything going on someone because of that.

what do things look like if he was the preacher?

 

[Ants!]

The trickster doing their thing is the easiest part of that. It's Zell and the Shaman picking the same number that would be the long odds. Slightly better than usual odds because Zell picked 2 numbers, but still long odds.

True. All trickster would have to do is PM benzine when someone's about to be lynched.

Because if he was shaman'd he could still be town. Same with Alu. Taking you out can confirm both of them. Whereas taking him out could only prove there is a shaman.

I'm still not getting your logic. Taking out either of them also confirms them both and kills one of them in the process.

 

[Jon]

Okay, so you're scared of the risk that Quagmire is town.
But you're not scared that I might be town, and it fucks the numbers in the same way?

Either way risks a town, yes. There is no good option.

But if he turns out to be a townie, it opens more questions of whether there is just a shaman OR you're a wolf still. And if he turns out to be town, you'll just say it's a shaman to hide you're a wolf.

It's much more risky than taking out the snake at the head... again, in my opinion.

This is all just my thoughts. I don't like our options or choices.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I think there is some MAD manipulation fuckery going on here.

Kat was confirmed good by Ants. I reconfirm that she is good by being on the same team as Tommy because I completely forgot thar Ants already cleared her. That makes my reads sus. But Ants reads are also supposedly sus because Alu claims that Ants read on him is bull.

Which is it, folks? Who the fuck is wrong?

I'm going with neither of us. I'm confident that Ants is good and will continue to believe that until proven otherwise with no reason to doubt.

I'm down to vote Quag, Alu, or Vash, but I would prefer Vash because he can silence people and thus making close votes too close by muting townies.

 

[VashTheStampede]

There he goes pushing that Vash thing again

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Also, if we lynch Quagmire and he turns out to be a wolf, one of you protecter roles better fucking protect Ants.

 

[Jon]

so forget odds for a second because its possible regardless of odds. that means there is a chance there are 4 wolves right? and if there are its going to be hard to get anything going on someone because of that.

what do things look like if he was the preacher?

If he was the preacher and there are 4 wolves, town has already lost. Wolves would need to just kill the SNV

 

[Fool's Requiem]

There he goes pushing that Vash thing again

 

[Banana]

If he was the preacher and there are 4 wolves, town has already lost. Wolves would need to just kill the SNV

but if someone killed a wolf tonight then we would still have a chance?

 

[Ants!]

Alu, Quagmire, or me, we need to lynch one of these 3 today no matter what.

My first choice is Quagmire, to see if we hit a shaman then I'd be more willing to believe Alu.
My second choice is Alu, because that still seems like long odds that there is a shaman and we both picked Alu last night.
Last resort is me. If you lynch me today, kill Quagmire 2nd and then Alu 3rd.

Regardless though, we need to come to enough of a consensus to get the minimum numbers for a lynch.

 

[Jon]

Also, if we lynch Quagmire and he turns out to be a wolf, one of you protecter roles better fucking protect Ants.

There is likely no protector roles.

BH is too slow.

Banana may or may not be a witch.

Kat is unknown.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

If he was the preacher and there are 4 wolves, town has already lost. Wolves would need to just kill the SNV

dimmerwit was not Preacher

switched vote to Quagmire

 

[A Punched Face]

I'm still not getting your logic. Taking out either of them also confirms them both and kills one of them in the process.

If we lynch Quagmire and he turns out to be a wolf, it doesn't confirm me at all. If he's the shaman it might make it seem obvious that I was shamaned. If he's a different wolf it doesn't get rid of the possibility that I was shamaned.

 

[Jon]

Alu, Quagmire, or me, we need to lynch one of these 3 today no matter what.

My first choice is Quagmire, to see if we hit a shaman then I'd be more willing to believe Alu.
My second choice is Alu, because that still seems like long odds that there is a shaman and we both picked Alu last night.
Last resort is me. If you lynch me today, kill Quagmire 2nd and then Alu 3rd.

Regardless though, we need to come to enough of a consensus to get the minimum numbers for a lynch.

I agree with this. maybe not the order, but I agree with this.

I would REALLY like to hear from @Kat

 

[Fool's Requiem]

There is likely no protector roles.

BH is too slow.

Banana may or may not be a witch.

Kat is unknown.

Then I guess we're fucked.

 

[Ants!]

Either way risks a town, yes. There is no good option.

But if he turns out to be a townie, it opens more questions of whether there is just a shaman OR you're a wolf still. And if he turns out to be town, you'll just say it's a shaman to hide you're a wolf.

It's much more risky than taking out the snake at the head... again, in my opinion.

This is all just my thoughts. I don't like our options or choices.

Okay, your logic is starting to sound a little better. I can almost get on board. However even if I die and get confirmed as aura seer, that still leaves the shaman defense. Each wolf we take out who is not shaman makes that claim harder and less believable, because fewer unknown wolf roles remaining means less odds of one of them being shaman.

 

[Jon]

dimmerwit was not Preacher

switched vote to Quagmire

We literally just explained why he POSSIBLY could...

I don't think he was, but, it IS possible he was.

 

[Ants!]

If he's a different wolf it doesn't get rid of the possibility that I was shamaned.

That's true, but offering to kill him before you is the best chance I can give you to get credibility for your claim. Maybe we're lucky and he's revealed as shaman.

We literally just explained why he POSSIBLY could...

I don't think he was, but, it IS possible he was.

That's true. I fucked up on my understanding of the shaman role, and banana helped me see that. My bad.

But yes I agree that it's just technically possible and still highly unlikely.

 

[Jon]

Okay, your logic is starting to sound a little better. I can almost get on board. However even if I die and get confirmed as aura seer, that still leaves the shaman defense. Each wolf we take out who is not shaman makes that claim harder and less believable, because fewer unknown wolf roles remaining means less odds of one of them being shaman.

Trust me, I'd rather NOT lynch you. Especially given the way you're responding, it's how I would act if I were town in your situation. That and you seem to be genuinely trying to help the town.

The issue is legit ANYONE outside Tommy and I are good lynch targets.

In before you're the werewolf fan and we're all fucked anyway >.>

 

[VashTheStampede]

Almost wanna die just to see the dead thread making fun of us

 

[Jon]

Almost wanna die just to see the dead thread making fun of us

They were just as confused, you dolt

 

[Jon]

In before you're the werewolf fan and we're all fucked anyway >.>

OH MY FUCKING GOD!

We have a fucking WW Fan don't we >.>

 

[Fool's Requiem]

OH MY FUCKING GOD!

We have a fucking WW Fan don't we >.>

I'm the Sorcerer.

 

[Ants!]

Trust me, I'd rather NOT lynch you. Especially given the way you're responding, it's how I would act if I were town in your situation. That and you seem to be genuinely trying to help the town.

The issue is legit ANYONE outside Tommy and I are good lynch targets.

In before you're the werewolf fan and we're all fucked anyway >.>

Only one I'm uncomfortable lynching is banana. I don't think she's innocent, I just think it's very possible that she's the fool. It's a good ploy to claim a provable role and then not prove it even this late in the game despite constant pressure to do so, and if that's the case then it's working because people are making the case to lynch her. I'd be most comfortable lynching Quagmire and having Kelly point his re-direct towards banana or Alu.

 

[VashTheStampede]

OH MY FUCKING GOD!

We have a fucking WW Fan don't we >.>

 

[Ants!]

Almost wanna die just to see the dead thread making fun of us

Personally when I die in the game I find it hard to follow it as closely as I once did, if at all. Especially if I die early and there are hundreds of posts a day to sift through. lol

 

[Ants!]

Kat is the only one who hasn't posted yet. Is she silenced?

 

[VashTheStampede]

Personally when I die in the game I find it hard to follow it as closely as I once did, if at all. Especially if I die early and there are hundreds of posts a day to sift through. lol

Yeah but you know 15 minutes after Zell died (BUT AFTER JAWNEH COULD HAVE SEEN HIM) he was like "here is the optimum gameplan for all three sides and it's kind of weird they don't see it" and then I'll go in there and read it and feel like a buffoon.