U.S.A. Fmr. President Trump shot at during campaign event in Butler, PA

[VashTheStampede]

The real conspiracy is that David Zaslav did this because he saw I watched that West Wing episode where they shot President Bartlett again on Max the other day.

 

[Rachel]

He's probably just in shock. People do weird things when they're in shock. He could've even meant something completely different from "shoes"; his brain just wasn't firing right given the circumstances.

I mean, think about it -- it isn't logical that he needs shoes. He was wearing his shoes. What, he has an extra pair hidden at the podium?

This is also what I was wondering about! Did his shoes come off? If so, that's weird, doesn't seem like that should have happened when you look at the clips. Wondering if he keeps another pair on stage that he slips on that don't have lifts that are maybe more comfortable.

(not that this matters at all but it was a weird thing to focus on)

 

[Mark]

This is also what I was wondering about! Did his shoes come off? If so, that's weird, doesn't seem like that should have happened when you look at the clips. Wondering if he keeps another pair on stage that he slips on that don't have lifts that are maybe more comfortable.

(not that this matters at all but it was a weird thing to focus on)

If you shit your pants, you’d wanna make sure you grabbed your shoes so no one spotted the runoff… right?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Did someone check the grassy knoll or the sewage drains for a shooter with magic bullets yet?

 

[Mark]

Did someone check the grassy knoll or the sewage drains for a shooter with magic bullets yet?

Nah, too busy resting on their laurels…

 

[MC74]

Brother, it’s a million degrees outside. The water’s fine.

If you're lucky. With how hot it is, it might be all dried up by now, lol.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Did someone check the grassy knoll or the sewage drains for a shooter with magic bullets yet?

The secret service seemed to think it impossible that there would have been a second shooter waiting since they let him get up and vamp for the cameras...

 

[Ants!]

And we probably won't. Doesn't fit the agenda.

"But someone died."

MAGA: Who the fuck cares about some nobody? Our savior bled for you and I!


Classic. Remember when Clinton got egged? Simpler times.

Someone dying would suit them more, an innocent death to blame on the violent Left.

In any case, we do know who it was. He was a Fire chief.

 

[Jon]

The shooter was a registered Republican who made $15 donation to Biden when he was sworn in in 2021.

He climbed a roof on a building 150 feet outside the Secret Service check area. (EDIT - Rephrasing)

He used a semi-auto AR15 weapon.

He was killed by rooftop snipers after firing 4 times.

He was 20 years old and no motive has been determined as yet.

It appears as if he simply missed the target and nothing that Trump did contributed to the miss (speculative).

Republicans (including Trump) are already being as hypocritical as thought. Blaming the left, and condemning violence while also supporting guns and promoting 1/6 as "peaceful protests." The left if saying all the right things and condemning this. The MAGA right is in full blown conspiracy mode including some saying Biden ordered the hit. He is already being glorified and many on the right already throwing around full blown "God saved him" and similar "God's candidate" messaging.

This... is a fucking mess and disaster. Dems are now in huge trouble. Either this needed to not happen (preferred) or they couldn't have missed. I am more convinced than ever that Biden needs to withdraw because Biden vs Trump is wholly Trump now.

 

[Jon]

Alleged image of the shooter seconds before the shot/being shot. Putting in spoilers for sensitivity reasons, but the image itself has nothing sensitive. From TMZ.

Spoiler

 

[MC74]

The shooter was a registered Republican who made $15 donation to Biden when he was sworn in in 2021.

He climbed a roof on a building 150 feet outside the Secret Service check area. (EDIT - Rephrasing)

He used a semi-auto AR15 weapon.

He was killed by rooftop snipers after firing 4 times.

He was 20 years old and no motive has been determined as yet.

It appears as if he simply missed the target and nothing that Trump did contributed to the miss (speculative).

Republicans (including Trump) are already being as hypocritical as thought. Blaming the left, and condemning violence while also supporting guns and promoting 1/6 as "peaceful protests." The left if saying all the right things and condemning this. The MAGA right is in full blown conspiracy mode including some saying Biden ordered the hit. He is already being glorified and many on the right already throwing around full blown "God saved him" and similar "God's candidate" messaging.

This... is a fucking mess and disaster. Dems are now in huge trouble. Either this needed to not happen (preferred) or they couldn't have missed. I am more convinced than ever that Biden needs to withdraw because Biden vs Trump is wholly Trump now.

It's not gonna matter anymore because the Dems are 100% done. No way do they recover from this. Hate tom say it, but America's fate is sealed.

 

[Mark]

Alleged image of the shooter seconds before the shot/being shot. Putting in spoilers for sensitivity reasons, but the image itself has nothing sensitive. From TMZ.

Spoiler

View attachment 18063

This also seems to match with aftermath photos of the shooter circulating… which makes me wonder which cop snapped a photo, because you know they weren’t letting civilians anywhere near that roof… after the fact, anyway.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

The MAGA right is in full blown conspiracy mode including some saying Biden ordered the hit.

 

[Jon]

It's not gonna matter anymore because the Dems are 100% done. No way do they recover from this. Hate tom say it, but America's fate is sealed.

I do think there is a way forward, but it's absolutely not with Biden. Biden can't stand up to this. Someone else needs to be the voice. If Biden stays, Trump wins. Simple as that. Polls this week, I'm sure will confirm this. Perhaps this will be enough of that "If my team shows me I don't have a chance" evidence. But, yeah, this is a damned tough thing to come back from either way.

This also seems to match with aftermath photos of the shooter circulating… which makes me wonder which cop snapped a photo, because you know they weren’t letting civilians anywhere near that roof… after the fact, anyway.

Yeah, those i won't show, but I've seen them. Not sure circulating pictures of a dead person is in my MO.

 

[MC74]

I do think there is a way forward, but it's absolutely not with Biden. Biden can't stand up to this. Someone else needs to be the voice. If Biden stays, Trump wins. Simple as that. Polls this week, I'm sure will confirm this. Perhaps this will be enough of that "If my team shows me I don't have a chance" evidence. But, yeah, this is a damned tough thing to come back from either way.

I have a hard time seeing anyone coming back from this. Even if Biden steps down, the person replacing him will need a Goddamn miracle. The odds are this point are practically damn near impossible, if not that.

 

[Jon]

I have a hard time seeing anyone coming back from this. Even if Biden steps down, the person replacing him will need a Goddamn miracle. The odds are this point are practically damn near impossible, if not that.

I agree, wholeheartedly. My only point is I think Biden has a 0% chance. Someone else has a 1% chance. If that makes sense anyway.

Also, in the TMZ video, after the shots are fired and the gunman is down, some idiot says "This is exactly why we need fucking Trump."

Like, no, bitch, this is EXACLY why Trump CANNOT win...

 

[MC74]

I agree, wholeheartedly. My only point is I think Biden has a 0% chance. Someone else has a 1% chance. If that makes sense anyway.

Regardless of what happens from here on out, the Republicans now have that edge that can get them the trifecta. This is the last thing we needed this close to an election. This plays right into their hands, gives them that extra much-needed justification in their efforts to dismantle democracy.

Also, in the TMZ video, after the shots are fired and the gunman is down, some idiot says "This is exactly why we need fucking Trump."

Like, no, bitch, this is EXACLY why Trump CANNOT win...

Yeah, and now that the Republicans have the ammo they need, this makes me worry even more about the future of our neighbors next door. The idea of having an influential world superpower like the US fall into nationalism would have dire consequences on a global scale.

 

[MC74]

.....and by dire, I mean catastrophic.....

 

[Quagmire]

The shooter was a registered Republican who made $15 donation to Biden when he was sworn in in 2021.

Which was before he could vote so he registered after donating


I also think this won't matter long term, we are a long way from November, had this happened in September or October probably affects, but at this point most people are already decided

Maybe it gets Dems who may have thought doesn't mater, doesn't like Biden to go out because afraid of the right voting in full force

 

[VashTheStampede]

Only 20 years old means he was like 11 when Trump started his campaign. All he's known in politics is what Trump and his supporters have brought us to.

It's easy to think that this is hopeless for America but it's not like George Wallace became president after he was shot. Hell, Teddy Roosevelt lost his election after getting shot.

It's bleak but it isn't hopeless.

 

[Jon]

Only 20 years old means he was like 11 when Trump started his campaign. All he's known in politics is what Trump and his supporters have brought us to.

It's easy to think that this is hopeless for America but it's not like George Wallace became president after he was shot. Hell, Teddy Roosevelt lost his election after getting shot.

It's bleak but it isn't hopeless.

I agree with this sentiment.

And now I feel dirty for being in agreement with Vash.

It's like a blind date with a piece of spinach stuck to their teeth.

Then you realize you're in Florida and there's no tooth.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The shooter was a registered Republican who made $15 donation to Biden when he was sworn in in 2021.

The $15 ActBlue donation was from a 69 year old man with the same name in Pittsburgh. Not the shooter.

 

[Jon]

That's actually kinda funny (ironic funny). There are two Thomas Crooks.

 

[Quagmire]

The $15 ActBlue donation was from a 69 year old man with the same name in Pittsburgh. Not the shooter.

View attachment 18069

Apparently Bethel Park is a suburb of Pittsburg so it could be the same person

 

[VashTheStampede]

Apparently Bethel Park is a suburb of Pittsburg so it could be the same person

Hmm good point. ZIP codes match up too.

Of course, he would have been 17 and would have had to lie about his age because ActBlue only takes from 18+

How many more crimes did he commit???

 

[Jon]

Are we really trying to profile this guy? As bad as this was, let's not forget he was a 20 year old kid. He knew this was likely suicide and he felt that the future of the political world in the US and its Democracy hinged on him assassinating a would be dictator.

Scary prospects all around. All this kid knew was the threat Trump presented. I don't think there is more motivation than that. Truly.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Age: 69

Totally a legit age being used.

 

[Jon]

Age: 69

Totally a legit age being used.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Are we really trying to profile this guy? As bad as this was, let's not forget he was a 20 year old kid. He knew this was likely suicide and he felt that the future of the political world in the US and its Democracy hinged on him assassinating a would be dictator.

Scary prospects all around. All this kid knew was the threat Trump presented. I don't think there is more motivation than that. Truly.

I dunno, I saw an older Alex Jones clip where he and his guest decided that assassinating Trump would be the best thing for the right because whoever took his place would be more effective and they'd be able to take advantage of Trump's death to institute far-right policies.

It's not outside the realm of logic to think the guy was trying to make things worse.

 

[Jon]

I dunno, I saw an older Alex Jones clip where he and his guest decided that assassinating Trump would be the best thing for the right because whoever took his place would be more effective and they'd be able to take advantage of Trump's death to institute far-right policies.

It's not outside the realm of logic to think the guy was trying to make things worse.

Sure, it's a possibility.

But do you remember if the choices YOU made at 20 would be on that large a scale that would affect the entire country?

It's possible, of course, i concede that. Though very unlikely. The gun was registered to his father in a purple state that isn't known for exorbitant gun violence. It just feels more likely to me that he was trying to take out someone he perceived as a threat.

The profiling his classmates and "friends" described are not the typical that are pushed to Trump, but more away from him. They are prototypical of school shooters, but not political figure assassinations. He was quiet, a loner. He was smart, but kept to himself. By all accounts, a good student, but had neither friends nor enemies. Searches on his social media and history (limited as it is), have turned up a mostly apolitical kid.

So, the question of why is still unanswered. That being said, I feel it also reinforces this was done as something not to make a name for himself like say the Columbine shooters, but as a statement that Trump is a threat to democracy as a whole.

And as a 20 year old with little to no real world experience, he didn't think far enough out that this is worse for America if he misses.

I personally stand by there would have been a bigger power vacuum with Trump gone and the Reps would be in shambles trying to sort it out.

 

[Quagmire]

I personally stand by there would have been a bigger power vacuum with Trump gone and the Reps would be in shambles trying to sort it out.

I agree, would have been like after the death of Alexander the great

 

[Jon]

I agree, would have been like after the death of Alexander the great

Sure, that's a good analogy.

It's like was said earlier. Trump hasn't named a VP yet. Without one, there's no logical fall back to whose "next in line" for the MAGA throne. Reps are also divided into MAGA and Never-Trumpers. There would be a fight from those two sides on who is logical to succeed Trump and without the cult leader at the top, and no logical voice following him, uniting through fear and political consequences as Trump has would be nearly impossible. Particularly with only 4 months left.

EDIT - Additionally, which MAGA asshat would step up and be able to say follow me? You have Rubio, Vance and Burgum as the likely names he was to take, and none is the natural fit to get people to follow him.

 

[Quagmire]

Sure, that's a good analogy.

I know it is

I like to imagine them fighting over his corpse and parading it around

 

[Mark]

I know it is

I like to imagine them fighting over his corpse and parading it around

You’ve got it all wrong. The hairpiece gets passed on like a crown.

 

[Ben]

But do you remember if the choices YOU made at 20 would be on that large a scale that would affect the entire country?

I was probably at the start of my power tripping admin arc at 20... So does fucking up the globe on a small scale count?

 

[dimmerwit]

It depends. My eyes are still grateful to the mod team for the crucial step of limiting text glow strength.

 

[Mark]

It depends. My eyes are still grateful to the mod team for the crucial step of limiting text glow strength.

You’re lucky with that one… we had a fuckton of obnoxious filters like that we could have used back then that make your standard glow filter look like a delicately nuanced accent color.

 

[MC74]

I also think this won't matter long term, we are a long way from November, had this happened in September or October probably affects, but at this point most people are already decided

Maybe it gets Dems who may have thought doesn't mater, doesn't like Biden to go out because afraid of the right voting in full force

Fingers crossed that is indeed the case and my pessimism is just that.

 

[Mark]

Fingers crossed that is indeed the case and my pessimism is just that.

Your pessimism is absolutely warranted, though. Don’t be mistaken into thinking you’re just being paranoid or cynical, because there has to be some wild shit on the horizon after this. I have such a hard time thinking that we won’t see some degree of escalation.

 

[MC74]

Your pessimism is absolutely warranted, though. Don’t be mistaken into thinking you’re just being paranoid or cynical, because there has to be some wild shit on the horizon after this. I have such a hard time thinking that we won’t see some degree of escalation.

It's the way my mind works, it's conditioned to expect the worst. Admittedly, I don't have a whole lot of faith in humanity because of how people have proven themselves time & time again to be dumb enough to repeat history instead of learn from it.

 

[Mark]

It's the way my mind works, it's conditioned to expect the worst. Admittedly, I don't have a whole lot of faith in humanity because of how people have proven themselves time & time again to be dumb enough to repeat history instead of learn from it.

The way I see it… we have to have faith in our species ability to survive. We’ve overcome so many other obstacles, I find it hard to imagine that the collective would allow one individual to ruin it all, regardless of which side they’re on. History has proven that people have gotten better at dealing with “conquerors” in favor of a democratic approach. There are countries that, in our lifetimes, have finally acquired democracy as a means to govern. The unfortunate fact that we have to face is that we all are in what will eventually be referred to as a dark time in history, where certain truths are omitted from textbooks, and certain things we just don’t talk about anymore. So, I think we’ll come out of it with the usual tallying of lives lost and bullshit fronts to keep the peace while people still hate in dark corners, but we will come out of it stronger as a nation. Eventually.

 

[Ben]

The way I see it… we have to have faith in our species ability to survive. We’ve overcome so many other obstacles, I find it hard to imagine that the collective would allow one individual to ruin it all, regardless of which side they’re on. History has proven that people have gotten better at dealing with “conquerors” in favor of a democratic approach. There are countries that, in our lifetimes, have finally acquired democracy as a means to govern. The unfortunate fact that we have to face is that we all are in what will eventually be referred to as a dark time in history, where certain truths are omitted from textbooks, and certain things we just don’t talk about anymore. So, I think we’ll come out of it with the usual tallying of lives lost and bullshit fronts to keep the peace while people still hate in dark corners, but we will come out of it stronger as a nation. Eventually.

My main counter thought to that is, it's not just Trump who is the threat. He's the figurehead, yeah, but there's a whole long evil snake behind the head.

So it's not just one individual ruining it for everyone, it's fascists and racists taking control back and fucking all the progress up.

I do wonder how much closer people might feel we are to a civil war moment now, as opposed to the last time I hypothesized. If they do take power, at what point of them trying to enact Project 2025 do you try to stop them?

 

[MC74]

My main counter thought to that is, it's not just Trump who is the threat. He's the figurehead, yeah, but there's a whole long evil snake behind the head.

So it's not just one individual ruining it for everyone, it's fascists and racists taking control back and fucking all the progress up.

I do wonder how much closer people might feel we are to a civil war moment now, as opposed to the last time I hypothesized. If they do take power, at what point of them trying to enact Project 2025 do you try to stop them?

The scary part about the bold is, the amount of damage they can do in a relatively short amount of time could easily take decades, if not centuries to repair.

 

[Ben]

Yep. This is "we're back to slavery, and not just in the prison system" kind of uh oh.

 

[MC74]

Yep. This is "we're back to slavery, and not just in the prison system" kind of uh oh.

It's also scary to fathom how much more hellish life would be for LGBTQ+ people under a regime that would have no qualms stripping them of all rights & privileges, as well as branding them and those who support them as criminals.

On top of that, my bae lives in the US, so yeah, I have my own reasons to be paranoid as fuck. I deeply worry about her safety.

 

[dimmerwit]

Would Trump actually follow Project 2025?

The Trump approved platform for the RNC barely even mentions abortion or divorce and removes opposition on same-sex marriage to name some examples. Republicans know full well that their general positioning on abortion has hurt them in the last few years, and there's nothing Trump wants more than to be liked. Even a cursory glance at opinion polls shows the other two are non-starters.

Trump has no "allies" as such - he's beholden to nobody. He has only useful idiots who need to be smart enough to bend his ear a little but not to actually challenge him. But if Trump has already spoken out against many of these things then I don't see how that changes.

 

[Ben]

Would Trump actually follow Project 2025?

The Trump approved platform for the RNC barely even mentions abortion or divorce and removes opposition on same-sex marriage to name some examples. Republicans know full well that their general positioning on abortion has hurt them in the last few years, and there's nothing Trump wants more than to be liked. Even a cursory glance at opinion polls shows the other two are non-starters.

Trump has no "allies" as such - he's beholden to nobody. He has only useful idiots who need to be smart enough to bend his ear a little but not to actually challenge him. But if Trump has already spoken out against many of these things then I don't see how that changes.

You forget Trump likes to say one thing then do the exact opposite. And I just don't consider background people like Steven Miller to be idiots, they've got an agenda and use Trump as a means to an end in enacting it.

I haven't dug around but I'm pretty sure someone posted an article showing Project 2025 was integral to a lot of their plans, even with Trump denying it outwardly. I'll try to find it.

 

[Ben]

Oh, that didn't take much digging.

This should be absolutely a surprise to no one that Trump was lying about project 2025

 

[Jon]

Trump has no "allies" as such - he's beholden to nobody. He has only useful idiots who need to be smart enough to bend his ear a little but not to actually challenge him. But if Trump has already spoken out against many of these things then I don't see how that changes.

But is it the ear that was just shot off?

 

[dimmerwit]

Trump's prior affiliation with the Heritage foundation is well known. It's fact that their early support (or tolerance) of Trump's campaign in 2016 at a time when most of the conservative movement detested everything Trump gave them access and influence, not least in appointing staff.

It is also the case that Trump had no difficulty in dispensing with Heritage approved staff such as Jeff Sessions.

Colour me naive but I've never seen Trump as someone with any real interest in small "c" conservatism. That's not to say his administration would not enact any conservative policies or will not do damage - I think @MC74 's fears are sadly well warranted. But I'm just not convinced that he will enact all of that stuff. I really hope I'm right on this.

Also r.e. the video, Project 2025 did not exist at the time.