Zell Wolf Discussion Thread v3

[Ryan!]

Ants read as good, but with the roles in the game that could mean nothing. He could be the Werewolf fan. He's claiming a protection role which is the easiest to hide behind.

 

[Cole]

it doesn't waste it though. look what's happening RIGHT NOW.

every game has effectively been over in 2 or 3 days. using 2 confusions to create chaos like this? it's absolutely not a waste.

using guardian for even less information, not a waste.

 

[Ryan!]

Oh I think you played this very well. The townies are running around not knowing what to do. If you guys take it, you earned it. If they pay attention, they can start to see the lies unfold from the Wolf crew. I don't trust Local. I don't trust FR. I'm on the fence on Ants leaning to not trusting, but I could be very wrong on that one. FR is claiming Spirit Seer. Kut is obviously the real one, and there's way too many third townie roles. FR is lying.

Oh and when Kat does finally read this, two things. 1) If you're a Wolf, good play. 2) If you're a townie, I don't blame you, but you made a major blunder.

 

[Cole]

Oh I think you played this very well. The townies are running around not knowing what to do. If you guys take it, you earned it. If they pay attention, they can start to see the lies unfold from the Wolf crew. I don't trust Local. I don't trust FR. I'm on the fence on Ants leaning to not trusting, but I could be very wrong on that one. FR is claiming Spirit Seer. Kut is obviously the real one, and there's way too many third townie roles. FR is lying.

Oh and when Kat does finally read this, two things. 1) If you're a Wolf, good play. 2) If you're a townie, I don't blame you, but you made a major blunder.

remind me to respond to this post when the game ends.

 

[Ryan!]

I shall. And I'll be the first to admit I could be very very wrong on this whole thing, as always. Maybe I overthink things and get paranoid where I shouldn't. But with both FR and Local, something really doesn't feel right with them. There were a few people I thought about checking, and Local was one of them. I was deciding between Kat, Local, and Ants settled on Ants. Probably a big mistake on my part. I really should have gone with Local just so I could know, because I feel as though he's lying his ass off.

 

[Ryan!]

Now that I'm going back and rereading, it really could be Benzine. Playing along with not wanting to kill me against Kat to keep the suspicion alive that I was lying the entire time so they don't listen to me.

Yeah, I think Benzine makes a lot of sense.

 

[shortkut]

it doesn't waste it though. look what's happening RIGHT NOW.

every game has effectively been over in 2 or 3 days. using 2 confusions to create chaos like this? it's absolutely not a waste.

using guardian for even less information, not a waste.

I think that’s the play for those abilities. Use them as early as possible

 

[Cole]

of course it is.

the wolves need to post fast and hard. once I can get on my PC I'll send the message I typed up after I died. I was hoping yo not be revealed as wolf (stupid marksman) and I was gonna try to keep sowing chaos in here. even if people were 99.9% sure I was a wolf, there'd still be that little bit of doubt.

but alas. the witch was an ass

 

[Ryan!]

of course it is.

the wolves need to post fast and hard. once I can get on my PC I'll send the message I typed up after I died. I was hoping yo not be revealed as wolf (stupid marksman) and I was gonna try to keep sowing chaos in here. even if people were 99.9% sure I was a wolf, there'd still be that little bit of doubt.

but alas. the witch was an ass

Thanks a lot, Kat

 

[Ryan!]

Wrong thread, Zell

 

[Ryan!]

Also Zell, if you are interested in actually playing a game and not having to host, I think I am gonna post a discussion and sign up thread for a game. You've done a great job running a fun experience and deserve to actually play in one.

 

[Cole]

I think next time start with Day phase and/or fewer seer type roles or a limit to how many times it can be used.

The town can have half the group with some type of detection ability and the wolves can kill at random and hit a role, or use the wolf seer and decide if that is a target they want or they can aim for the field and know the target they want is out there.

Maybe move the wolf seer to occur after the wolf kill?

I will 100% maintain that the town is not overpowered.

The problem is that everyone was clamoring for Zell to buff the wolves, instead he tried to keep it "even" to have one more plot point to figure out balance. But Zell keeps structuring these games based on an app against random players. And he didn't account for people that were going to be targeted every single game on night 0 just based on name alone, that already imbalances the game. Then, he took out the Fool for some reason, removing the fool is a 100% flat boost to the town. Then, he "made it 5 wolves", except it wasnt, as there were only 3 working with no information. And lastly: the Wolf Shaman *needs* to be a guaranteed wolf. Those two things cast enough suspicion on lynching that the seer roles *do not matter*.

In games 1 and 2, the town was not overpowered.

In game 3 the town WAS over powered, but it wasn't because of the roles they had, it was because of what was taken away from the wolves. Only 3 people able to coordinate a plan. The Fool. The Shaman. Wolves in this game were nerfed.

I think the evils are starting to figure out the meta a bit. Let's see how the rest of this game goes. But let's look at some numbers.

I don't know that you can say *evils* are "starting to figure it out" when I was one of them and I had ALREADY figured it out. Combine that with you and I both explaining to everyone what the meta was.


Couple thoughts from before I was fully revealed.

 

[Tubby23]

Now that I'm going back and rereading, it really could be Benzine. Playing along with not wanting to kill me against Kat to keep the suspicion alive that I was lying the entire time so they don't listen to me.

Yeah, I think Benzine makes a lot of sense.

Benzine usually sticks to the shadows and while he still hasn't posted near as much as others he is certainly more present this game and notice how very quickly after being called out in a non-tagged post that he was quiet (the same post that called me out lol) he started posting. Usually doesn't let that sway him.

I'm certain he's involved

 

[Tubby23]

I will 100% maintain that the town is not overpowered.

The problem is that everyone was clamoring for Zell to buff the wolves, instead he tried to keep it "even" to have one more plot point to figure out balance. But Zell keeps structuring these games based on an app against random players. And he didn't account for people that were going to be targeted every single game on night 0 just based on name alone, that already imbalances the game. Then, he took out the Fool for some reason, removing the fool is a 100% flat boost to the town. Then, he "made it 5 wolves", except it wasnt, as there were only 3 working with no information. And lastly: the Wolf Shaman *needs* to be a guaranteed wolf. Those two things cast enough suspicion on lynching that the seer roles *do not matter*.

In games 1 and 2, the town was not overpowered.

In game 3 the town WAS over powered, but it wasn't because of the roles they had, it was because of what was taken away from the wolves. Only 3 people able to coordinate a plan. The Fool. The Shaman. Wolves in this game were nerfed.


I don't know that you can say *evils* are "starting to figure it out" when I was one of them and I had ALREADY figured it out. Combine that with you and I both explaining to everyone what the meta was.


Couple thoughts from before I was fully revealed.

I've also come around to your way of thinking. It's not the role balance in prior games that was the worry.

It was 15 years of interpersonal relationships rather than app based play

 

[Cole]

I've also come around to your way of thinking. It's not the role balance in prior games that was the worry.

It was 15 years of interpersonal relationships rather than app based play

yup. the relationships, the knowledge of who is good.

maybe Zell can confirm, but I think I've been targeted 13 times on night 0 in only 3 games.

not only does that suck for me, but it breaks the game when I'm gonna Insta die as wolf every single time

 

[Ryan!]

If it makes you feel any better, you weren't actually my initial choice. Canadaguy was. Zell can confirm.

 

[Cole]

If it makes you feel any better, you weren't actually my initial choice. Canadaguy was. Zell can confirm.

It doesn't, and I'll answer why again after the game.

 

[Ryan!]

I think I already know why anyway.

 

[Zell 17]

In game 3 the town WAS over powered, but it wasn't because of the roles they had, it was because of what was taken away from the wolves. Only 3 people able to coordinate a plan. The Fool. The Shaman. Wolves in this game were nerfed.

The only thing I know for certain is that everyone who is a wolf thinks the town is overpowered in their game.

 

[Cole]

The only thing I know for certain is that everyone who is a wolf thinks the town is overpowered in their game.

the town isn't overpowered though lol

the wolves were underpowered in this game, but in the previous two they were fine

 

[Zell 17]

Wolves had fixed confusion and guardian ww which are strong roles. Also the town had the strong roles (gunner, jailer, medium) removed.

The wolves also have two powerful allies who will always show as good to all seers.

 

[Ryan!]

Yeah, that's a big problem this game. I can't trust my reading of Ants at all

 

[Cole]

Wolves had fixed confusion and guardian ww which are strong roles. Also the town had the strong roles (gunner, jailer, medium) removed.

The wolves also have two powerful allies who will always show as good to all seers.

I understand what you tried to do. but it doesn't work in practice with this crowd. the fool pretty much has to be a mandated role.

I'll say more when the game ends

 

[Tubby23]

yup. the relationships, the knowledge of who is good.

maybe Zell can confirm, but I think I've been targeted 13 times on night 0 in only 3 games.

not only does that suck for me, but it breaks the game when I'm gonna Insta die as wolf every single time

I've yet to target you whether Night 0 or other and it's probably for unfair reasons: I know you are going to be targetted so why waste my action on you.

 

[Cole]

I've yet to target you whether Night 0 or other and it's probably for unfair reasons: I know you are going to be targetted so why waste my action on you.

and you're not alone.

that's kinda the meta and others have said the same.

@shortkut famously never bothers to check me either because someone else will.

and Alu has said the same

 

[Ryan!]

I'm eith Cole in needing a Fool or Headhunter to make voting dangerous

 

[Ryan!]

People are finally realizing FR is probably the Sorcerer and lying.

Which is what I was saying all Day 1. Which makes killing me more dumb.

 

[shortkut]

and you're not alone.

that's kinda the meta and others have said the same.

@shortkut famously never bothers to check me either because someone else will.

and Alu has said the same

I did last time because I wanted to know if I could trust you. This game I didn’t because my role most likely wouldn’t have provided enough information on you to make a difference

 

[Tubby23]

and you're not alone.

that's kinda the meta and others have said the same.

@shortkut famously never bothers to check me either because someone else will.

and Alu has said the same

It's my only good move XD

Who are the Wolfvengers again, I'm hoping to apply for a job opening

 

[Cole]

@Killface!

can you do me a favor and send a message to the town for me, you can even say it's from me.

tell them "remember who we thought might have been the wolf fan right before I skipped the vote? one of you suggested it? we were wrong but you should kill that person anyway"

thanks buddy!

 

[Zell 17]

@Killface!

can you do me a favor and send a message to the town for me, you can even say it's from me.

tell them "remember who we thought might have been the wolf fan right before I skipped the vote? one of you suggested it? we were wrong but you should kill that person anyway"

thanks buddy!

He wont see it until the night phase

 

[Ryan!]

Oh I have so much to tell Killface when he comes on

 

[shortkut]

@Killface!

can you do me a favor and send a message to the town for me, you can even say it's from me.

tell them "remember who we thought might have been the wolf fan right before I skipped the vote? one of you suggested it? we were wrong but you should kill that person anyway"

thanks buddy!

Why would he want to help the wolves?

 

[shortkut]

@Killface! Unless FR is naming wolves, he’s an enemy of the town and should be lynched

 

[Ryan!]

@Killface! Here's a message you can relay for me. Given my back and forth with Cole which you can catch up on in this thread, it's pretty apparent I was telling the truth. I am an Aura Seer. Everyone else claiming needs to be highly suspicious. Kut was the Spirit Seer and it's pretty evident FR is lying. He needs to be target number one.

Tell Kat, if she is the Witch, I don't blame her, but she made a major goof. The reason I wanted to be lynched day one was because it would have given validation to everything I'm saying. I figured the Wolves wouldn't kill me as it just ruins things for them. It was a gambit. Sacrifice one piece in order to gain a far better winning position. I knew if I died to them or other means it would have been a Confusion kill. It would have clouded everything so they could cast doubt.

Do not trust Local. Do not trust FR. Get rid of them asap.

 

[Tommy Boy]

I know people are tired of the imbalance and tired of the role claiming blah blah but I'm having a blast

I think this game is hilarious. Not telling people the roles after they got killed and watching the chaos is pretty entertaining. I would be fucked if I was alive and in this game lmao.

 

[shortkut]

I think this game is hilarious. Not telling people the roles after they got killed and watching the chaos is pretty entertaining. I would be fucked if I was alive and in this game lmao.

I think the confusion wolf has made this a better game overall than the previous ones

 

[Cole]

He wont see it until the night phase

I'm aware.

Why would he want to help the wolves?

who says it helps them?

 

[Ryan!]

I think Cole is just looking to get rid of the RK. Perhaps they tried to kill that person, used the Confusion, and couldn't

 

[shortkut]

Or he wants to kill FR and I wouldn’t blame him, lol

 

[Ryan!]

I mean, I do, too

 

[Ryan!]

I think we all do, at this point.

 

[Cole]

what have I told you guys about trying to predict me?

 

[Ryan!]

In my defense, I'm really not a great behaviorist. I'm a much better diagnostician and handling medications. Focusing more on behaviorism is way more school than I'm willing to put in.

 

[Cole]

In my defense, I'm really not a great behaviorist. I'm a much better diagnostician and handling medications. Focusing more on behaviorism is way more school than I'm willing to put in.

I have zero school in behaviorism and I do it exceedingly well! in fact it's probably my biggest strength

 

[Ryan!]

I think I have the plan figured out. I also could have completely overthought everything and be 100% wrong.

 

[Ryan!]

I have zero school in behaviorism and I do it exceedingly well! in fact it's probably my biggest strength

Some people are naturally drawn to it, as if it's just a sixth sense. I'm passingly okay at it, but admit my ego can get in my own way and I don't have 100% dead on reads. It's why I play more math in poker and chess.

 

[Cole]

Some people are naturally drawn to it, as if it's just a sixth sense. I'm passingly okay at it, but admit my ego can get in my own way and I don't have 100% dead on reads. It's why I play more math in poker and chess.

No mine is all PTSD and trauma from an abusive home.

It's read people or die. ...pretty literally.

 

[Ryan!]

Survivors, or rather those with a Survivor Personality type, will often adapt and turn skills learned through their trauma into something they can use to their advantage. Quite literally making the best of a bad situation. So long as they aren't masking their trauma and dealing with it in healthy ways, which should always be encouraged especially among men, there's nothing wrong with it.

 

[shortkut]

what have I told you guys about trying to predict me?

All I ever predict is you don’t do random idiocy. You’re too smart and calculating because you need to have some idea of the outcome. You don’t throw caution to the wind and go, “fuck it, let’s see what happens”