Zell Wolf Discussion Thread v2

[Ryan!]

I had TD on the verge of wanting me dead after you had everyone ready to think you were a townie. I was suspicious as fuck calling for Cole to die.

 

[Ants!]

I had TD on the verge of wanting me dead after you had everyone ready to think you were a townie. I was suspicious as fuck calling for Cole to die.

I was the first to hint at Coleman being the fool and you picked that up and ran with it. Imagine my surprise when YOU were the fool. Lol

 

[Ants!]

But yeah that would have been wild for the spirit seer to check both solo roles the first night and the killer makes a kill.

 

[shortkut]

My assessment after three wolf games: no roles favors the wolves heavily. Everyone having a role makes the townies overpowered. I think a balanced game would be some of the townies have roles and some are just ordinary folk who can vote to lynch.

I agree that this is probably better with our small pool of players. If he had 20+ players, we would need the extra roles

While feeling like there are too many roles, I feel like I’m the event of duplicate roles they should know who each other is. If Alu, canadaguy, and I acted like we knew the others were innocent, in the beginning it makes us look too coordinated and thereby suspicious if there are fewer other roles that would be able to confirm our allegiances

 

[Zell 17]

DAMNIT ANTS YOU COULD HAVE GOTTEN ME LYNCHED AND ENDED THE ENTIRE GAME FIRST DAY!

Cole would have died day 1 too. No bullets

 

[Ryan!]

Honestly, in a game with 16 players, having four wolves with only one having a role randomly selected from your list, a solo killer/fool/headhunter randomly selected, and having four people who have roles which are randomly selected from your list, it would make role claiming possible, but incredibly dangerous. If everyone has a role, you end up with games where the town overwhelms the center and forces mate by day two.

 

[Ants!]

Cole would have died day 1 too. No bullets

So Holly is the revenge wolf?

 

[Ants!]

Cole would have died day 1 too. No bullets

So Holly is the revenge wolf?

 

[Ants!]

Cole would have died day 1 too. No bullets

So Holly is the revenge wolf

Honestly, in a game with 16 players, having four wolves with only one having a role randomly selected from your list, a solo killer/fool/headhunter randomly selected, and having four people who have roles which are randomly selected from your list, it would make role claiming possible, but incredibly dangerous. If everyone has a role, you end up with games where the town overwhelms the center and forces mate by day two.

this is my take on it also.

 

[Ryan!]

In fact, I think that may be the ideal way to do it. You have your list of all Wolf roles. One Wolf, selected randomly, has one of those abilities. You have your solo killer from that list, Fool, or Head Hunter that one person gets randomly. That leaves you with 11 townies. Giving roughly 1/3 of them spme kind of role, randomly selected from your list of townie roles, or just having some guaranteed, wouldn't greatly balance the game. Want to role claim? Do it at your own risk. What's best about this set up? Only give the list from which you could draw from. Don't say whatsoever what role any group has. The sheer chaos will allow those townies with roles to have to convince everyone of their case, while the Wolves would only have one special ability that would need to be accounted for. So maybe listing what ability the Wolves had would help.

But yeah, of you want to role claim you are playing a dangerous game. You could either paint a target on your chest for the Wolves, or have people not believe you and get yourself lynched.

 

[Ants!]

Sorry for the multiple post, don’t know why my phone is acting weird right now.

 

[Zell 17]

In fact, I think that may be the ideal way to do it. You have your list of all Wolf roles. One Wolf, selected randomly, has one of those abilities. You have your solo killer from that list, Fool, or Head Hunter that one person gets randomly. That leaves you with 11 townies. Giving roughly 1/3 of them spme kind of role, randomly selected from your list of townie roles, or just having some guaranteed, wouldn't greatly balance the game. Want to role claim? Do it at your own risk. What's best about this set up? Only give the list from which you could draw from. Don't say whatsoever what role any group has. The sheer chaos will allow those townies with roles to have to convince everyone of their case, while the Wolves would only have one special ability that would need to be accounted for. So maybe listing what ability the Wolves had would help.

But yeah, of you want to role claim you are playing a dangerous game. You could either paint a target on your chest for the Wolves, or have people not believe you and get yourself lynched.

So this version of the game is one of information, not necessarily psychology (although that plays a part).

Point blank, if the evils don't attempt to give any misinformation, they will never win. Ever. The town won't immolate of it's own accord.

 

[Ants!]

Miss information gets found out. That’s why people don’t do it.

 

[Ants!]

There are lots of roles that can prove you’re lying. So why wouldn’t you lay low?

 

[Zell 17]

There are lots of roles I can prove you’re lying. So why wouldn’t you lay low?

Because you can't survive. I've won this setup as serial killer maybe 20 or so times. Half the time I claimed spirit seer (being very careful not to kill after day 1 when I know the other SS will check me). It's easy to nab some wolves as a fake spirit seer and get some credibility (even easier if you are a wolf). And then you sell out some villagers at the end (These two guys are red). One gets shot, the other gets voted. Evils win.

 

[Zell 17]

Also TBH I think evils win this game even without claims if they had just berserked on the gunner + jailer last night instead of shortkut.

 

[Zell 17]

There are lots of roles that can prove you’re lying. So why wouldn’t you lay low?

Also, lots of roles can CLAIM that you are lying, not prove it. It comes down to who has more credibility. If nobody know who the true aura seer and spirit seer are, how do they make decisions?

 

[Ants!]

Also TBH I think evils win this game even without claims if they had just berserked on the gunner + jailer last night instead of shortkut.

Wolves refusing to use that ability is still a sore spot for me after the last game. Lol

 

[Ants!]

I guess I’ll just have to agree to disagree, it’s not how I would do it but it’s your game and it is still really fun so I will keep playing them. Thank you for all of your effort hosting these so the rest of us can have a good time

 

[Ants!]

And sorry for being nitpicky and critical, a meaner person than you would just say “well go make your own game then” and they would be right for saying it. Lol

 

[shortkut]

Also TBH I think evils win this game even without claims if they had just berserked on the gunner + jailer last night instead of shortkut.

Yeah, I thought if I died at night it would be from a pro-town role, not from the wolves. I handed myself over on a silver platter to be lynched so that the wolves wouldn’t bother trying to kill me. Everyone was ready to lynch me

 

[Ryan!]

The Wolves have a Berserker, could easily guess someone would be protecting Cole, and decided it wasn't worth pulling the trigger and went for kut who already had a ton of suspicion on him?

Dean is smarter than this. Dean is way better a player than this. He has to be smashing his head against a wall right now.

 

[Ryan!]

Wolves refusing to use that ability is still a sore spot for me after the last game. Lol

You could have gotten rid of me and Cole night 2, and at that point possibly won the entire thing. You had to be pissed.

 

[Ants!]

He has to be smashing his head against a wall right now.

Me last game.

 

[Ants!]

You could have gotten rid of me and Cole night 2, and at that point possibly won the entire thing. You had to be pissed.

I know! Y’all even provided us a nice convenient list and didn’t realize this error until the following day phase. And I TOLD them y’all might figure it out if they don’t jump on it right now. And that’s exactly what happened.

 

[Ryan!]

If I were a Wolf, I'd like to keep the strong players in the game, but sometimes a kill just makes sense. If you have the Berserk ability, know someone is going to be protected, and you can get rid of two people at once, you do it. No questions asked.

 

[Ants!]

If I were a Wolf, I'd like to keep the strong players in the game, but sometimes a kill just makes sense. If you have the Berserk ability, know someone is going to be protected, and you can get rid of two people at once, you do it. No questions asked.

YES

 

[shortkut]

Night 1, always berserk Cole. Imagine if 3 people are protecting him? Awesome night for the wolves

 

[Ryan!]

I know! Y’all even provided us a nice convenient list and didn’t realize this error until the following day phase. And I TOLD them y’all might figure it out if they don’t jump on it right now. And that’s exactly what happened.

I was hoping you guys bought my bluff about being the Bodyguard instead of Doctor and didn't use it in hopes you got him instead of me.

 

[Ryan!]

Night 1, always berserk Cole. Imagine if 3 people are protecting him? Awesome night for the wolves

Night one Berserk Cole. Day one vote Ants! It has to be a winning strategy.

 

[Ants!]

Night 1, always berserk Cole. Imagine if 3 people are protecting him? Awesome night for the wolves

I’ll need to check again, but I think there was at least one ability we weren’t allowed to use on the first night. I think that was it.

 

[shortkut]

Night one Berserk Cole. Day one vote Ants! It has to be a winning strategy.

I am the idea man

I’ll need to check again, but I think there was at least one ability we weren’t allowed to use on the first night. I think that was it.

I think it is wolf shaman

 

[Ants!]

Night one Berserk Cole. Day one vote Ants! It has to be a winning strategy.

Starting to feel like killing me is a safe bet these days.

 

[Ants!]

I am the idea man

I think it is wolf shaman

Could be. Only remember that we used seer and revenge on the first night.

 

[Zell 17]

And sorry for being nitpicky and critical, a meaner person than you would just say “well go make your own game then” and they would be right for saying it. Lol

No worries. The issue I’m having isn’t that the game is unbalanced. The issue is that Coleman figured out the meta-for the town in the first game and the evils haven’t figured it out yet

 

[shortkut]

No worries. The issue I’m having isn’t that the game is unbalanced. The issue is that Coleman figured out the meta-for the town in the first game and the evils haven’t figured it out yet

Shake up the meta. I think there are too many roles who can identify wolves

 

[shortkut]

Shake up the meta. I think there are too many roles who can identify wolves

Or don’t RNG the roles, try to figure out who is best for each role and assign them, or assign specific people to work together

 

[Ants!]

By the way, I’m an automatic yes for game three, so if you make a sign-up list, go ahead and add me.

 

[Ryan!]

The meta for the evils is gonna be to lie their asses off, use the Berserk for a key kill, and cast shade on anyone also trying to role claim. If you're likely, the solo killer may take them out for you.

 

[Ryan!]

Meta for solo killer, if you're the Serial Killer at least, has to be to try and lay as low as possible and stack kills until you can get like four in one night.

 

[Ants!]

In hindsight, I think I made the right call on night zero, but should have guessed this might be a possibility, and taken a chance on night one.

 

[Zell 17]

Or don’t RNG the roles, try to figure out who is best for each role and assign them, or assign specific people to work together

If I see the evils give a good effort at causing damage and it still ends in a wipeout I will. It’s hard to say the game is broken because of the multiple seers when no checks came back as evil or red. They lost right now because they are the only ones with no credibility.

 

[Ants!]

Meta for solo killer, if you're the Serial Killer at least, has to be to try and lay as low as possible and stack kills until you can get like four in one night.

That was basically my plan. To either wait until I can kill everyone in one stroke, or to use up my stack once the tough guy is eliminated.

 

[Zell 17]

Meta for solo killer, if you're the Serial Killer at least, has to be to try and lay as low as possible and stack kills until you can get like four in one night.

There’s downside for this too. Fewer villagers make it more likely for a desperate (I.e bad) shot or watering. And if you have a free shot at taking bullets out…

 

[Ryan!]

In hindsight, I think I made the right call on night zero, but should have guessed this might be a possibility, and taken a chance on night one.

If you had killed on night 0 I guarantee it would have been game over day one. TD would have seen I killed someone, would have called me incredibly suspicious, and gotten me lynched.

 

[Zell 17]

That was basically my plan. To either wait until I can kill everyone in one stroke, or to use up my stack once the tough guy is eliminated.

Yeah solo hitting TG is a problem. Kinda wish a different solo other than SK had come up this game

 

[Ryan!]

Yeah solo hitting TG is a problem. Kinda wish a different solo other than SK had come up this game

I really wanna see what the Arsonist can do.

 

[Zell 17]

I really wanna see what the Arsonist can do.

The arsonist can wreck a village. But the drawback is that the n1 dousing is essentially random. If you douse the fool and a wolf night one it’s gonna be a short game. If they can burn n3 and it’s four villagers the game is over for the town.

 

[Zell 17]

The meta for the evils is gonna be to lie their asses off, use the Berserk for a key kill, and cast shade on anyone also trying to role claim. If you're likely, the solo killer may take them out for you.

I just want to clarify. I don’t think ALL the wolves need to come out as fake aura seers or whatever. But n1 they all need to decide what their roles are going to be. Someone should fake info, better if two. If someone else claims your role (including RV) CHALLENGE them.

I.e. “I’m the tough guy, Fools is lying”.

 

[Ants!]

There’s downside for this too. Fewer villagers make it more likely for a desperate (I.e bad) shot or watering. And if you have a free shot at taking bullets out…

I know it would have been good to take out the gunner, but Coleman listed me as very low on his suspicions list so I thought strategically it made sense not to this time.