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Zell Wolf Zell Wolf 16 - Day 4
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Me again!
Here's my info dump. I had posted this originally in the dead thread, so some of the info is a little... dated and deaded. Can't be arsed to edit it though lol. See it below.
Lists! Woooooo!
Deadders
Local - Doctor
Alu - Evil Detective
Tommy - Avenger Wolf
dimmerwit - Farmer
Kelly - Bard
Livers
kut - protector
Kat - Former aura, now protector
Fool - Aura
rk - ???
Benzine - ???
Jawneh - Ritualist
Vash - Jailer
Now. Whahappuh next?
Firstly, thanks to Alu, we know he went after 2 people the first nights. Kelly and someone who got protected, then Kat and someone protected. Now that I think about it, those protected also could've been ones Jailed.
So night 1, Local protects Vash, meaning Kelly is wolf/SV.
Night 2, I believe Alu targeted Tommy and Kat. Tommy lived being in jail and Kat got swapped with the body. I assume wolves went after Kat as well unless there is sorc/fan.
Night 3... sorc/fan if it didn't happen night 2. Potentially targetting me as I was jailed.
Now then. Best case scenario, there's 1 wolf left. That one wolf would be confusion wolf who has used both loads night 1 and night 3. That would mean Kelly and Tommy were the first two. One more left between rk, Benzine, and Fool. rk and Benzine make sense thanks to the list, but why Fool? Well, he claimed aura, but never actually gave us anything other than Alu. Day 1 I can pass to being hesitant and not wanting to die, but during day 2 you should spill the beans on the previous day, even if it was used on deadders. And day 3 he didn't forward anything either. I'm looking that as a missplay in the sense that he didn't want to / think to lie about something unless pressed / asked.
Worse or worst? Sorc, fan, another wolf. Though if fan exists, Kelly has to have been a wolf. So, only sorc and fan. Well huh. That just came to me as I was typing this. I'd go with rk or Benzine as we got nothing on them.
So uhhh... tl;dr for the scenarios:
1 wolf with unknown role and solo other than fan
2 wolves with unknown roles
Sorcerer and fan
Sorcerer and converted fan
Any of the unknown role wolves could be confusion still too. Rather not stick to that mentality just in case though.
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VashTheStampede
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VashTheStampede
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Benzine - confirmed good by FR. Was checked last night and was jailed, so can't be a fan who was turned. Technically could be a sorcerer
Jawneh - claiming ritualist, wolves could've killed medium or ritualist the first night though
Me - confirmed good by FR, gave y'all a wolf
Rk - confirmed gunner
Kut - confirmed good by FR, technically could be a fan that was turned last night or the night before, or could be a sorcerer
Vash - confirmed jailer
Jawneh seems like the best choice. If he turns out to be innocent, Vash can kill Benzine overnight, who can avenge kill kut if he turns out to be innocent.
Jawneh - claiming ritualist, wolves could've killed medium or ritualist the first night though
Me - confirmed good by FR, gave y'all a wolf
Rk - confirmed gunner
Kut - confirmed good by FR, technically could be a fan that was turned last night or the night before, or could be a sorcerer
Vash - confirmed jailer
Jawneh seems like the best choice. If he turns out to be innocent, Vash can kill Benzine overnight, who can avenge kill kut if he turns out to be innocent.
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Don’t we all?
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Good thing Kat @'d me so many times lol.
I like my "I'm a wolf" bit more. But sadly I'm not this game around.
Next game though.
Imo, Benzine could change his target to kut and we lynch him. Or if we believe Benzine then we go straight to kut. Some of my post did detail info on wolf and solo role possibilities so we don't know what's up. Technically, we can just not lynch, protect rk and Vash, and finish it tonight / tomorrow in case there's still a fool.
Err... I got more thoughts, but I also need to start driving home. More in like half an hour or so.
kat fixed that after
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I agree, very well done. I don't want to vote for him but it seems silly to vote for anybody else.
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Yeah, you’re get used to me posted a response to a post before I finish the thread
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The first sentence in that post also says FR cleared him.
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i mean I literally did that before so I get it lol
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I was kidding. But red lady is protected by visiting, not by not visiting...
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I hope nobody tells @Christina I visited @VashTheStampede one night
... where as that is 100% something I would do, I would've asked Zell to @ me once every night to humor me lol. Though sadly I didn't commit to the bit in dead chat.
One thing to note. In case nine thought of it, we now have all 3 strong roles here and also alive. Me as ritualist, Vash jailer, rk gunner. None else claimed to be one. Before anyone objects saying Kelly could've been a strong role, that would mean that currently there's 2 wolves and the solo alive. If the solo is the fan, we'd have lost now. Unless they're not converted. Then it's up to Vash not heck up tonight or town loses.
For me it's Benzine and kut. Either two wolves, or solo and wolf. If we're afraid of the fool and/or hh, no lynch today, Vash kills one of the tonight, rk shoots the other tomorrow. If game is still going on, lynch me tomorrow. This is the most optimal and safe way to go about this. Just protect rk. Empty words, but I'm putting my revive on rk too.
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Okay. It took a while, but after a good night sleep, I think I cracked it.
@VashTheStampede , grab Kat and do a murder. She's the fan.
I had trouble parsing in Fool's checks as there were so made good reads, but seemingly there was no cupid around. There'd be no reason for Fool to lie or mislead anything. So going from there, the only thing that would work out, is with some good old fashioned weird fuckery lol. Thanks to the dead body
Oh, kut is sorcerer btw.
So, night 1 Kelly dies to Alu. He was confusion wolf. Local protects Vash from dying so no double dick dipping.
Night 2... the weirdness happens. Alu gets Kat, dead body swaps with her, and wolves kill Kat. The dead body was the fan. Alu targeted Tommy, but he was jailed and safe.
Day 2 Tommy dies. Normally, sorc being the last wolf standing means they auto convert to regular, but as Kat was converted, kut stays as sorc still, retaining good aura.
Night 3, that comes in handy immediately for Fool's check as kut comes back good. They try to attack me and wiff as I'm jailed.
Night 4, went after Benzine. The lad was jailed.
Though, night 3 and 4 are subject to not killing anyone either. Doubtful, but who knows.
Wheee.
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Problem is the dead body is guaranteed to be a townie. Nice try though, I admire your tenacity.
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The dead body is assigned a villager role before the game begins. The first non-wolf killed swaps with them. That person could be the wildcard role or even the random killer. Here’s an example:
Dead body is assigned role of priest.
Night 1: Serial Killer stabs wolf avenger.
Wolf avenger tags serial killer.
Serial Killer would then convert to priest and play out the rest of the game as a townie.
Dead body mechanics are gonna be revised after this game, the aspect of confusion was not one that I foresaw until too late
Fan is a townie though. At least before conversion. And I thought Zell said it was possible anyhow.
But say I'm wrong with the overall plan, it would only end up shuffling you to Benzine. And well, the whole dead body swapping thing would be ignored.
In a way it makes a bit more sense for Benzine to be. If you're an avenger, using your power as your "defense" against townies is... to say the least, very shitty. In terms of gameplay I mean. Tactic wise, if it works, it works. Personally, I would've either immediately pulled the trigger on him or ask to change the target to another potential baddie and still pull the trigger before the next day starts. It's no good holding townies hostage when you're one yourself.
But that's me. I will say depending on Zell's qualification on if the fan is townie or not for the dead body, I can be wrong about you Kat. But it just means we got kut and Benzine as two wolves, or wolf and solo. Nothing really changes. Town will win in the end as long as we don't lynch a fool. If there's one. Or HH target. Which still does bring us back to Vash and rk doing the bidding.
Why the heck did I put in a vote anyhow? I need to remove that.
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But that’s the opposite of the example he gave where the real person converts from solo role to townie, not from townie to solo role
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Until I get confirmation of it, I don’t feel comfortable withyour conclusion
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It's fine really. To be honest, as long as there's no lynch today, nothing matters. If we lynch a townie today, it'll be at worst 3v2 townies to wolves. If they get a kill at night, or Vash decides not to kill again or kills a townie, we lose. Sure, it can still happen if there's two wolves the same way, but at least both Vash has to wiff or kill a townie as well as wolves killing a townie.
Say I'm the last wolf. As long as Vash kills a wolf. Hell, say Vash doesn't a kill anyone, but jails them only. Tomorrow we can still have 4v2 or 3v2 and rk can take a shot someone. Again, If 4v2 we're gutchi as he can shoot with peace of mind. 3v2, we lose if he shoots a townie.
Though the above is all hypothetical of 2 wolves. Could be sorc and converted fan, could be just two wolves. We can also still have 1 wolf and 1 solo. The last possibility is the main crux of not wanting to lynch at this stage of the game as well. Would suck if we do have a fool around here.
Just to try to convince you more, if you think I'm a wolf, Vash would then also have to be a wolf. Jailing and leaving Tommy alive since... what was it, he's Tommy? Okay. Looking at the past I can give that. Jailing another wolf the next night and not killing them either? That doesn't sound as believable anymore. Next is Benzine whose sole role is to verify Vash is the jailer. Which he did after Vash said he was an avenger and wanted that to stay hidden. But now it all comes down to pointing at Vash and wondering what the heck is he doing with his trigger finger for not killing any of the three people he's jailed, one of which was verifiably a wolf, one (me) who has between crazy theories also given probable theories on how things are going, and Benzine who was the last one without a role claim. What's going for me too is the last strong role, info on Local and (lack of) info on Kelly, and Alu's kill attemps in dead chat.
And to put some pressure on kut, he just had a sudden change of heart from both hinting at protecting and straight up saying he protected folks, not having seers to give information on anything, where he's now saying he's a red lady, being a seer himself, never giving any info on any of the nights for us, and never communicating he was going out to visit someone. If you skip visiting night 1, it's the safest role to have to clear people and to find one baddie when visiting them. Just have to say who it is during the day and you get one. But he did none of it.
But in case he's the fool, Vash can jail murder him.
Dammit! It was a good theory. :/ I was really happy about it when I woke up this morning. Bah.@Jawneh ’s theory
Well, at least you're an obvious... solo or wolf lol. My theory not working out just means Kat is a townie. The rest still works fine. Alu still killed Kat and tried getting Tommy. Wolves went after the dead body, or potentially still Kat if there's a special double-kill attempt protection in place by Zell thanks to the dead body. That's a weird logistical thing Zell will have to clear up at some point. Or last possibility is that the Kelly being a wolf and Tommy being in jail left sorc alone in wolf chat to not able to vote to kill.
And the last wolf or solo is then Benzine. If I'm a wolf, there's no reason for me to lay out a plan to kill the other wolf or solo. Today I would've been better off to stick to crazier tin foil hat plans, get a kill tonight, and win. If the kill misses, spread more weird ideas and have rk wiff tomorrow and win.
We have, thanks to Zell's clarification on the dead body, guarantee on Kat being town as none else came forward with saying they were killed instead and swapped roles. rk is second. Benzine and I both confirmed Vash. You, kut, was fine originally for a while saying you were a protector, but this red lady swap now means you just had lied and it's a no go. Benzine has an avenger claim and threat to kill Vash with his power going for him. I at least had some information to share afterwards with the class. If this was a big brain I see dead people person fakeout game as a wolf on my part, then y'all should applaud and give it to me then lol. But instead of that, I recommend everyone not lynching today and Vash taking care of kut.
Or we can have Benzine switch his kill to kut and Vash kills Benzine. We'd get both the wild cards. If I'm a wolf, at that point tomorrow it would still be 3v1 with me being the last wolf and just lynch me to win. This actually sounds the best. This way the town wins for sure.
@Benzine got it? Switch your kill to kut, @VashTheStampede , jails you again and kills you, we win. If we don't, tomorrow lynch me and town wins. Game solved.
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Read between the lines. I was trying to get the wolves to attack me and waste a night action, so I claimed a protector that could not protect themself.
When I said I protected Vash and FR, I was indicating I visited them and they were clear. A wolf cannot attack another wolf, so by saying they were attacked, that was my subtle way of saying they weren’t wolves
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But that's not how the role works my man. No one, at least I dont think anyone, thought you were the red lady and clearing folks that you were visiting. You definitely weren't telegraphing that in any way. Then if you just died one night randomly, we'd know you were the lady, but not who killed you. What a waste.
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I said I was the doctor. That was to draw attention. I didn’t want to make it clear I was the red lady. That means the wolves have one less person to target and can narrow down the strong roles easier.
The people I “protected” were the people I visited and they were not wolves. If I was the actual doctor, the wolves would not have been able to attack other wolves, so it at least made sense in my mind that I was indicating they were not wolves to everyone, regardless of my stated role
Good in theory, if you had left some kind of a breadcrumb the previous day for who you were visiting. Otherwise, again, if you had died while visiting, we'd have no idea who it was and thus wasted your role altogether.
Not to mention, obfuscating your "protections" while folks were still confused on all the wolf kills wiffing made considering possibilities and making plans worse for the town. If we knew you weren't a protector, we could've ruled that out and start working on thinking it was either wolves targetting folks Vash jailed, or maybe folk he jailed were wolves who now couldn't do a kill during the night.
But in any case. You don't have to believe me. I don't have to believe you. We can all just believe Vash and Benzine. We believe they're the jailer and avenger. If they do their roles as I laid out, the town wins. At worst, if you're town, you wouldn't live to the end, but you'd still win. Same for Benzine. There's no real argument against that now.
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I’m fine with no kill today
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That might be how you would use the role, but I wanted to use it to defend the town, not solely as a seer.
If I made it obvious enough that I was red lady, the wolves would not attack me.
When I die, you’d figure out I was the red lady and work backwards. You would see the names of people I used my night actions on and then extrapolate from there.
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I think @Jawneh is the last wolf left and doing whatever he can to live another day. And so far, it seems to be working.
Kut's explanation makes a lot of sense to me. Red lady dies if the person they're visiting is attacked, so he cannot straight up say he's the red lady and who he's visiting in advance.
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