Zell Wolf Zell Wolf 16 - Day 4

[Benzine]

Shit I gotta quit getting high during this. I guess it's just Jawneh?

lol

 

[Jawneh]

@Jawneh

Me again!

Here's my info dump. I had posted this originally in the dead thread, so some of the info is a little... dated and deaded. Can't be arsed to edit it though lol. See it below.

---

Lists! Woooooo!

Deadders
Local - Doctor
Alu - Evil Detective
Tommy - Avenger Wolf
dimmerwit - Farmer
Kelly - Bard
Livers
kut - protector
Kat - Former aura, now protector
Fool - Aura
rk - ???
Benzine - ???
Jawneh - Ritualist
Vash - Jailer

Now. Whahappuh next?

Firstly, thanks to Alu, we know he went after 2 people the first nights. Kelly and someone who got protected, then Kat and someone protected. Now that I think about it, those protected also could've been ones Jailed.

So night 1, Local protects Vash, meaning Kelly is wolf/SV.

Night 2, I believe Alu targeted Tommy and Kat. Tommy lived being in jail and Kat got swapped with the body. I assume wolves went after Kat as well unless there is sorc/fan.

Night 3... sorc/fan if it didn't happen night 2. Potentially targetting me as I was jailed.


Now then. Best case scenario, there's 1 wolf left. That one wolf would be confusion wolf who has used both loads night 1 and night 3. That would mean Kelly and Tommy were the first two. One more left between rk, Benzine, and Fool. rk and Benzine make sense thanks to the list, but why Fool? Well, he claimed aura, but never actually gave us anything other than Alu. Day 1 I can pass to being hesitant and not wanting to die, but during day 2 you should spill the beans on the previous day, even if it was used on deadders. And day 3 he didn't forward anything either. I'm looking that as a missplay in the sense that he didn't want to / think to lie about something unless pressed / asked.

Worse or worst? Sorc, fan, another wolf. Though if fan exists, Kelly has to have been a wolf. So, only sorc and fan. Well huh. That just came to me as I was typing this. I'd go with rk or Benzine as we got nothing on them.

So uhhh... tl;dr for the scenarios:

1 wolf with unknown role and solo other than fan
2 wolves with unknown roles
Sorcerer and fan
Sorcerer and converted fan

Any of the unknown role wolves could be confusion still too. Rather not stick to that mentality just in case though.

 

[Kat]

Oh man, you missed a LOT while typing that @Jawneh

 

[Jawneh]

Oh man, you missed a LOT while typing that @Jawneh

It includes nothing that happened today lol.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Ok if Jawneh is a wolf it's 100% my favorite play I've seen in these games yet and he deserves to win

 

[VashTheStampede]

shortkut and Benzine, eh?

 

[Kat]

Benzine - confirmed good by FR. Was checked last night and was jailed, so can't be a fan who was turned. Technically could be a sorcerer
Jawneh - claiming ritualist, wolves could've killed medium or ritualist the first night though
Me - confirmed good by FR, gave y'all a wolf
Rk - confirmed gunner
Kut - confirmed good by FR, technically could be a fan that was turned last night or the night before, or could be a sorcerer
Vash - confirmed jailer

Jawneh seems like the best choice. If he turns out to be innocent, Vash can kill Benzine overnight, who can avenge kill kut if he turns out to be innocent.

 

[shortkut]

Let's go, we ain't got all night. shortkut wants to see bloodshed.

Don’t we all?

 

[shortkut]

That gives us some info at least. FR had no reason to lie, so kut, me, and Benzine all have good auras.

Rk is definitely good

Vash is definitely good.

Despite recent events, I think you all believe me to most likely be good.

That leaves Jawneh and kut.

I like Jawneh's posts and kut did try to skip early once to avoid lynching, so I'm voting kut.

Fool’s cleared my aura

 

[Jawneh]

I'm still not convinced that @Jawneh's crazy theory about the jailer being paired with a wolf is all that crazy.

Good thing Kat @'d me so many times lol.

Ok if Jawneh is a wolf it's 100% my favorite play I've seen in these games yet and he deserves to win

I like my "I'm a wolf" bit more. But sadly I'm not this game around.

Next game though.


Imo, Benzine could change his target to kut and we lynch him. Or if we believe Benzine then we go straight to kut. Some of my post did detail info on wolf and solo role possibilities so we don't know what's up. Technically, we can just not lynch, protect rk and Vash, and finish it tonight / tomorrow in case there's still a fool.

Err... I got more thoughts, but I also need to start driving home. More in like half an hour or so.

 

[rktaker]

Fool’s cleared my aura

kat fixed that after

 

[Kat]

Ok if Jawneh is a wolf it's 100% my favorite play I've seen in these games yet and he deserves to win

I agree, very well done. I don't want to vote for him but it seems silly to vote for anybody else.

 

[shortkut]

kat fixed that after

Yeah, you’re get used to me posted a response to a post before I finish the thread

 

[Kat]

kat fixed that after

The first sentence in that post also says FR cleared him.

 

[shortkut]

Jawneh seems like the best choice. If he turns out to be innocent, Vash can kill Benzine overnight, who can avenge kill kut if he turns out to be innocent.

I’m good with this plan because I have nothing to fear


Voting Jawneh

 

[shortkut]

Also, in the interest of full disclosure, I am not the doctor. I do not fear the wolves, because I am able to protect myself but I didn’t want them to know that

 

[rktaker]

Yeah, you’re get used to me posted a response to a post before I finish the thread

i mean I literally did that before so I get it lol

 

[shortkut]

 

[Kat]

@rktaker good call on shooting FR instead of Vash. That was really useful to confirm his role.

New crazy theory about the vegetarian wolves: @Jawneh is so committed to his bit that without any wolves to tag him in Wolf chat, he was unable to kill anybody.

 

[shortkut]

@rktaker good call on shooting FR instead of Vash. That was really useful to confirm his role.

New crazy theory about the vegetarian wolves: @Jawneh is so committed to his bit that without any wolves to tag him in Wolf chat, he was unable to kill anybody.

Or as long as I don’t visit anyone I can’t be killed at night and they targeted me at least once since I claimed to be the doctor

 

[Kat]

Or as long as I don’t visit anyone I can’t be killed at night and they targeted me at least once since I claimed to be the doctor

I was kidding. But red lady is protected by visiting, not by not visiting...

 

[shortkut]

I was kidding. But red lady is protected by visiting, not by not visiting...

‘‘Twas also a joke

 

[shortkut]

I hope nobody tells @Christina I visited @VashTheStampede one night

 

[Jawneh]

New crazy theory about the vegetarian wolves: @Jawneh is so committed to his bit that without any wolves to tag him in Wolf chat, he was unable to kill anybody.

... where as that is 100% something I would do, I would've asked Zell to @ me once every night to humor me lol. Though sadly I didn't commit to the bit in dead chat.

One thing to note. In case nine thought of it, we now have all 3 strong roles here and also alive. Me as ritualist, Vash jailer, rk gunner. None else claimed to be one. Before anyone objects saying Kelly could've been a strong role, that would mean that currently there's 2 wolves and the solo alive. If the solo is the fan, we'd have lost now. Unless they're not converted. Then it's up to Vash not heck up tonight or town loses.

For me it's Benzine and kut. Either two wolves, or solo and wolf. If we're afraid of the fool and/or hh, no lynch today, Vash kills one of the tonight, rk shoots the other tomorrow. If game is still going on, lynch me tomorrow. This is the most optimal and safe way to go about this. Just protect rk. Empty words, but I'm putting my revive on rk too.

 

[Kat]

Skip

 

[VashTheStampede]

Then it's up to Vash not heck up tonight or town loses.

 

[shortkut]

Skip

Sounds good to skip

 

[Jawneh]

Okay. It took a while, but after a good night sleep, I think I cracked it.

@VashTheStampede , grab Kat and do a murder. She's the fan.

I had trouble parsing in Fool's checks as there were so made good reads, but seemingly there was no cupid around. There'd be no reason for Fool to lie or mislead anything. So going from there, the only thing that would work out, is with some good old fashioned weird fuckery lol. Thanks to the dead body

Oh, kut is sorcerer btw.

So, night 1 Kelly dies to Alu. He was confusion wolf. Local protects Vash from dying so no double dick dipping.

Night 2... the weirdness happens. Alu gets Kat, dead body swaps with her, and wolves kill Kat. The dead body was the fan. Alu targeted Tommy, but he was jailed and safe.

Day 2 Tommy dies. Normally, sorc being the last wolf standing means they auto convert to regular, but as Kat was converted, kut stays as sorc still, retaining good aura.

Night 3, that comes in handy immediately for Fool's check as kut comes back good. They try to attack me and wiff as I'm jailed.

Night 4, went after Benzine. The lad was jailed.

Though, night 3 and 4 are subject to not killing anyone either. Doubtful, but who knows.

Wheee.

 

[Kat]

Night 2... the weirdness happens. Alu gets Kat, dead body swaps with her, and wolves kill Kat. The dead body was the fan. Alu targeted Tommy, but he was jailed and safe.

Problem is the dead body is guaranteed to be a townie. Nice try though, I admire your tenacity.

 

[Kat]

Why are you all going after kut? You think he's the sorcerer and Jawneh is innocent?

 

[VashTheStampede]

Problem is the dead body is guaranteed to be a townie. Nice try though, I admire your tenacity.

Dead body can only be a villager. The SV could switch with them if they were killed though

This is a tad confusing for me, specifically Zell's last sentence.

 

[Zell 17]

This is a tad confusing for me, specifically Zell's last sentence.

The dead body is assigned a villager role before the game begins. The first non-wolf killed swaps with them. That person could be the wildcard role or even the random killer. Here’s an example:

Dead body is assigned role of priest.
Night 1: Serial Killer stabs wolf avenger.
Wolf avenger tags serial killer.

Serial Killer would then convert to priest and play out the rest of the game as a townie.

Dead body mechanics are gonna be revised after this game, the aspect of confusion was not one that I foresaw until too late

 

[Jawneh]

Problem is the dead body is guaranteed to be a townie. Nice try though, I admire your tenacity.

Fan is a townie though. At least before conversion. And I thought Zell said it was possible anyhow.

But say I'm wrong with the overall plan, it would only end up shuffling you to Benzine. And well, the whole dead body swapping thing would be ignored.

In a way it makes a bit more sense for Benzine to be. If you're an avenger, using your power as your "defense" against townies is... to say the least, very shitty. In terms of gameplay I mean. Tactic wise, if it works, it works. Personally, I would've either immediately pulled the trigger on him or ask to change the target to another potential baddie and still pull the trigger before the next day starts. It's no good holding townies hostage when you're one yourself.

But that's me. I will say depending on Zell's qualification on if the fan is townie or not for the dead body, I can be wrong about you Kat. But it just means we got kut and Benzine as two wolves, or wolf and solo. Nothing really changes. Town will win in the end as long as we don't lynch a fool. If there's one. Or HH target. Which still does bring us back to Vash and rk doing the bidding.

Why the heck did I put in a vote anyhow? I need to remove that.

 

[shortkut]

Can we even have a sorcerer and fan together in this game?

 

[shortkut]

Fan is a townie though. At least before conversion. And I thought Zell said it was possible anyhow.

@Zell 17 can you confirm this?

Otherwise I’m good with my vote on Jawneh

 

[Jawneh]

@Zell 17 can you confirm this?

Otherwise I’m good with my vote on Jawneh

Village team:
3x Random Strong Villager
5x Random Regular Villager

Note: There will be NO MORE than one person who has a "speak with the dead" role. There will also be no more than one person with a "lock players up at night" role. There may be none of either, but there won't be multiple.

Wolf team:
3x Random Wolf

The random werewolf can be any of the numbered wolves (except regular werewolf) listed in the dictionary.

Solo team:
1x Random Killer

Wildcard Role:
Fool/Headhunter/Werewolf Fan/Cupid

Werewolf Fan
Aura: Good
Is a normal townie. Really wants to be a werewolf. The Marksman cannot kill this player nor can they be killed by the Warden's weapon. Cannot kill at night. The Detective can see that they belong to the werewolf team, but they have good Aura. Werewolves do not know their identity, and they do not know the identity of the werewolves. If they are attacked by the werewolves then they become a regular werewolf with no powers. At any time, the Werewolf Fan can choose to have their role revealed to a player of their choosing. The chosen player will be told the identity of the Werewolf Fan at the beginning of the next night.

See bottom

Edit: Cheating edit, I know. oops.

 

[shortkut]

See bottom

Edit: Cheating edit, I know. oops.

But that’s the opposite of the example he gave where the real person converts from solo role to townie, not from townie to solo role

The dead body is assigned a villager role before the game begins. The first non-wolf killed swaps with them. That person could be the wildcard role or even the random killer. Here’s an example:

Dead body is assigned role of priest.
Night 1: Serial Killer stabs wolf avenger.
Wolf avenger tags serial killer.

Serial Killer would then convert to priest and play out the rest of the game as a townie.

Dead body mechanics are gonna be revised after this game, the aspect of confusion was not one that I foresaw until too late

 

[Jawneh]

But that’s the opposite of the example he gave where the real person converts from solo role to townie, not from townie to solo role

In the spirit of the game, he wont arbitrate on that specifically for us. He's done it before. So whether it's good or not, he wont give it directly to us.

 

[shortkut]

In the spirit of the game, he wont arbitrate on that specifically for us. He's done it before. So whether it's good or not, he wont give it directly to us.

Until I get confirmation of it, I don’t feel comfortable withyour conclusion

 

[Zell 17]

Fan can't be assigned to dead body, it's a wildcard role.

 

[shortkut]

Fan can't be assigned to dead body, it's a wildcard role.

@Jawneh ’s theory

 

[Jawneh]

Until I get confirmation of it, I don’t feel comfortable withyour conclusion

It's fine really. To be honest, as long as there's no lynch today, nothing matters. If we lynch a townie today, it'll be at worst 3v2 townies to wolves. If they get a kill at night, or Vash decides not to kill again or kills a townie, we lose. Sure, it can still happen if there's two wolves the same way, but at least both Vash has to wiff or kill a townie as well as wolves killing a townie.

Say I'm the last wolf. As long as Vash kills a wolf. Hell, say Vash doesn't a kill anyone, but jails them only. Tomorrow we can still have 4v2 or 3v2 and rk can take a shot someone. Again, If 4v2 we're gutchi as he can shoot with peace of mind. 3v2, we lose if he shoots a townie.

Though the above is all hypothetical of 2 wolves. Could be sorc and converted fan, could be just two wolves. We can also still have 1 wolf and 1 solo. The last possibility is the main crux of not wanting to lynch at this stage of the game as well. Would suck if we do have a fool around here.


Just to try to convince you more, if you think I'm a wolf, Vash would then also have to be a wolf. Jailing and leaving Tommy alive since... what was it, he's Tommy? Okay. Looking at the past I can give that. Jailing another wolf the next night and not killing them either? That doesn't sound as believable anymore. Next is Benzine whose sole role is to verify Vash is the jailer. Which he did after Vash said he was an avenger and wanted that to stay hidden. But now it all comes down to pointing at Vash and wondering what the heck is he doing with his trigger finger for not killing any of the three people he's jailed, one of which was verifiably a wolf, one (me) who has between crazy theories also given probable theories on how things are going, and Benzine who was the last one without a role claim. What's going for me too is the last strong role, info on Local and (lack of) info on Kelly, and Alu's kill attemps in dead chat.

And to put some pressure on kut, he just had a sudden change of heart from both hinting at protecting and straight up saying he protected folks, not having seers to give information on anything, where he's now saying he's a red lady, being a seer himself, never giving any info on any of the nights for us, and never communicating he was going out to visit someone. If you skip visiting night 1, it's the safest role to have to clear people and to find one baddie when visiting them. Just have to say who it is during the day and you get one. But he did none of it.

But in case he's the fool, Vash can jail murder him.

Fan can't be assigned to dead body, it's a wildcard role.

@Jawneh ’s theory

Dammit! It was a good theory. :/ I was really happy about it when I woke up this morning. Bah.

Well, at least you're an obvious... solo or wolf lol. My theory not working out just means Kat is a townie. The rest still works fine. Alu still killed Kat and tried getting Tommy. Wolves went after the dead body, or potentially still Kat if there's a special double-kill attempt protection in place by Zell thanks to the dead body. That's a weird logistical thing Zell will have to clear up at some point. Or last possibility is that the Kelly being a wolf and Tommy being in jail left sorc alone in wolf chat to not able to vote to kill.

And the last wolf or solo is then Benzine. If I'm a wolf, there's no reason for me to lay out a plan to kill the other wolf or solo. Today I would've been better off to stick to crazier tin foil hat plans, get a kill tonight, and win. If the kill misses, spread more weird ideas and have rk wiff tomorrow and win.

We have, thanks to Zell's clarification on the dead body, guarantee on Kat being town as none else came forward with saying they were killed instead and swapped roles. rk is second. Benzine and I both confirmed Vash. You, kut, was fine originally for a while saying you were a protector, but this red lady swap now means you just had lied and it's a no go. Benzine has an avenger claim and threat to kill Vash with his power going for him. I at least had some information to share afterwards with the class. If this was a big brain I see dead people person fakeout game as a wolf on my part, then y'all should applaud and give it to me then lol. But instead of that, I recommend everyone not lynching today and Vash taking care of kut.

Or we can have Benzine switch his kill to kut and Vash kills Benzine. We'd get both the wild cards. If I'm a wolf, at that point tomorrow it would still be 3v1 with me being the last wolf and just lynch me to win. This actually sounds the best. This way the town wins for sure.

@Benzine got it? Switch your kill to kut, @VashTheStampede , jails you again and kills you, we win. If we don't, tomorrow lynch me and town wins. Game solved.

 

[shortkut]

And to put some pressure on kut, he just had a sudden change of heart from both hinting at protecting and straight up saying he protected folks, not having seers to give information on anything, where he's now saying he's a red lady, being a seer himself, never giving any info on any of the nights for us, and never communicating he was going out to visit someone. If you skip visiting night 1, it's the safest role to have to clear people and to find one baddie when visiting them. Just have to say who it is during the day and you get one. But he did none of it.

Read between the lines. I was trying to get the wolves to attack me and waste a night action, so I claimed a protector that could not protect themself.

When I said I protected Vash and FR, I was indicating I visited them and they were clear. A wolf cannot attack another wolf, so by saying they were attacked, that was my subtle way of saying they weren’t wolves

 

[shortkut]

@VashTheStampede @Kat @Benzine @rktaker - why do you all think Jawneh is trying for a cascade of kills today/tonight?

His kat is a fan theory is busted, and I have a perfectly good explanation for my posts implying I saved people

 

[Jawneh]

Read between the lines. I was trying to get the wolves to attack me and waste a night action, so I claimed a protector that could not protect themself.

When I said I protected Vash and FR, I was indicating I visited them and they were clear. A wolf cannot attack another wolf, so by saying they were attacked, that was my subtle way of saying they weren’t wolves

But that's not how the role works my man. No one, at least I dont think anyone, thought you were the red lady and clearing folks that you were visiting. You definitely weren't telegraphing that in any way. Then if you just died one night randomly, we'd know you were the lady, but not who killed you. What a waste.

 

[shortkut]

But that's not how the role works my man. No one, at least I dont think anyone, thought you were the red lady and clearing folks that you were visiting. You definitely weren't telegraphing that in any way. Then if you just died one night randomly, we'd know you were the lady, but not who killed you. What a waste.

I said I was the doctor. That was to draw attention. I didn’t want to make it clear I was the red lady. That means the wolves have one less person to target and can narrow down the strong roles easier.

The people I “protected” were the people I visited and they were not wolves. If I was the actual doctor, the wolves would not have been able to attack other wolves, so it at least made sense in my mind that I was indicating they were not wolves to everyone, regardless of my stated role

 

[Jawneh]

I said I was the doctor. That was to draw attention. I didn’t want to make it clear I was the red lady. That means the wolves have one less person to target and can narrow down the strong roles easier.

The people I “protected” were the people I visited and they were not wolves. If I was the actual doctor, the wolves would not have been able to attack other wolves, so it at least made sense in my mind that I was indicating they were not wolves to everyone, regardless of my stated role

Good in theory, if you had left some kind of a breadcrumb the previous day for who you were visiting. Otherwise, again, if you had died while visiting, we'd have no idea who it was and thus wasted your role altogether.

Not to mention, obfuscating your "protections" while folks were still confused on all the wolf kills wiffing made considering possibilities and making plans worse for the town. If we knew you weren't a protector, we could've ruled that out and start working on thinking it was either wolves targetting folks Vash jailed, or maybe folk he jailed were wolves who now couldn't do a kill during the night.

But in any case. You don't have to believe me. I don't have to believe you. We can all just believe Vash and Benzine. We believe they're the jailer and avenger. If they do their roles as I laid out, the town wins. At worst, if you're town, you wouldn't live to the end, but you'd still win. Same for Benzine. There's no real argument against that now.

 

[shortkut]

Good in theory, if you had left some kind of a breadcrumb the previous day for who you were visiting. Otherwise, again, if you had died while visiting, we'd have no idea who it was and thus wasted your role altogether.

Not to mention, obfuscating your "protections" while folks were still confused on all the wolf kills wiffing made considering possibilities and making plans worse for the town. If we knew you weren't a protector, we could've ruled that out and start working on thinking it was either wolves targetting folks Vash jailed, or maybe folk he jailed were wolves who now couldn't do a kill during the night.

But in any case. You don't have to believe me. I don't have to believe you. We can all just believe Vash and Benzine. We believe they're the jailer and avenger. If they do their roles as I laid out, the town wins. At worst, if you're town, you wouldn't live to the end, but you'd still win. Same for Benzine. There's no real argument against that now.

I’m fine with no kill today

 

[shortkut]

Good in theory, if you had left some kind of a breadcrumb the previous day for who you were visiting. Otherwise, again, if you had died while visiting, we'd have no idea who it was and thus wasted your role altogether.

That might be how you would use the role, but I wanted to use it to defend the town, not solely as a seer.

If I made it obvious enough that I was red lady, the wolves would not attack me.

When I die, you’d figure out I was the red lady and work backwards. You would see the names of people I used my night actions on and then extrapolate from there.

 

[Kat]

@VashTheStampede @Kat @Benzine @rktaker - why do you all think Jawneh is trying for a cascade of kills today/tonight?

His kat is a fan theory is busted, and I have a perfectly good explanation for my posts implying I saved people

I think @Jawneh is the last wolf left and doing whatever he can to live another day. And so far, it seems to be working.

Kut's explanation makes a lot of sense to me. Red lady dies if the person they're visiting is attacked, so he cannot straight up say he's the red lady and who he's visiting in advance.