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Zell Wolf You are dead

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Jawneh

Jawneh

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Hey Zell, have you thought about making a "Zell's Pick" wolf game where you assign everyone to their roles, and potentially even pick all the roles including "random" ones? I'm sure at this point you've gotten some good insight into people and could cook up one fuck up game lol.
 
Zell 17

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Jawneh said:
Hey Zell, have you thought about making a "Zell's Pick" wolf game where you assign everyone to their roles, and potentially even pick all the roles including "random" ones? I'm sure at this point you've gotten some good insight into people and could cook up one fuck up game lol.
Click to expand...
More fucked up than this one???
 
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Jawneh

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Zell 17 said:
More fucked up than this one???
Click to expand...
YES!

You Can Do It GIF by bubly
 
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Jawneh

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Only 6 hours passed. Glad to be back already Raine? Will it be you now to get rid of the last confirmed role leaving just randoms, or will they keep you alive to witness more of the pain?
 
Local Hero

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Fool's Requiem said:
Hey, so I forgot, how did we know Dean was full of shit on his role claim?

I know Vash isn't a townie, but I can't remember how it was determined that Dean wasn't a townie either.
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Smacktard said:
IMPORTANT POST INCOMING
​

Okay, since it came up, I'm guessing it's because the "swear on my love one's life" thing, right? Well, I knew we were going to have to address this eventually, so let's get into it:

Joke answer:
It's in-universe roleplay, we're wolves lying about having family lol who cares, this isn't the real world.

Real answer:
I think it was really shitty that Dean introduced this idea of "swearing on your loved one's life."
I did not advise Dean to use that line. Wolf is just a game, but it's a game where the entire point is to be emotionally manipulative and shitty. Even still, using your loved ones to justify a play or defend yourself is INCREDIBLY emotionally manipulative and shitty. A boundary was absolutely crossed and there should be rules forbidding that from future games.

Before I address the big question ("Why did you do it too?"), I think there are some things that I need to say.

I know I have a "bad guy" rep because:
  • I take these games seriously
  • I'm not afraid of lying in-game
  • I've been the evil in 3/4 Zell games.
But here's the thing: they're just games. They're games of DECEPTION. We're supposed to lie.

But bringing the real world into the game like Dean did? Not cool. That's mixing lies and fantasy with reality.

My parents raised me to never lie, to the point that I was maybe too forthcoming and blunt with my criticisms of other people/places/things when I was growing up. I couldn't even tell white lies. It was something I actually had to notice, acknowledge, and work to change about myself. But outside of games of deception, I just don't lie (excluding white lies to not hurt peoples' feelings).

All of that to say, I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt and trust what I have to say in the next part of my post, but I know many of you have probably already made up their minds about me.

So the big question: Why did I do the same thing Dean did, and swear on my wife's life?
  1. First of all, I asked my wife if I could do this and she said I could. We were both laying in bed, first thing in the morning. She still had her eyes closed, and I leaned over and asked her permission. She grinned, and gave me an "mhmm." Later in the day, after she woke up, I asked her if she remembered what she'd agreed to and she said she had no idea. I was mortified. She's a little bit superstitious, so I thought maybe she had genuinely slept through the whole thing and granted me permission to do something she wasn't comfortable with by accident, but when I tried explaining it to her, she remembered and said she didn't care. So me and my wife? We're fine. I wouldn't EVER want to do something that makes her uncomfortable -- even if I personally didn't believe in the voodoo magic powers of swearing on a loved one's life -- but if she's cool with it, I don't think it should matter to anyone else.

  2. Swearing on a loved one's life is some playground bullshit. I'm not at all superstitious, so to me it ultimately means nothing, and my wife clarified to me that she's "not superstitious about things she didn't grow up with" (swearing on a loved one's life is not a "thing" in Arab culture, apparently). These words hold no power over her, over me, or over reality.

  3. I offered it as a way to balance the claim of "I swear on <loved one's> life". If this power were unchecked, the game would end day 1 when all of the non wolves go, "I really super swear on my most loved person in the world's life that I'm not a wolf." I never would've made the claim in a vaccuum, but the second someone did, I felt like I had to deprive it of all power. It really didn't matter who was on whose team, what the intent was, etc. I thought a claim like that was shitty, no matter what. If the taboo around some superstitious playground-tier bullshit disappeared, then it wouldn't have any power.
So there's my take on it. I hope people don't hold my decision against me. I didn't use that line expecting that it would save my hide by any means -- everyone had been calling me sus already, and Jawneh said he had his sights on me and intended to let his arrow fly. I knew I was dead that night, it didn't matter what I said. It wasn't some manipulative mastermind play on my part. Rather, it was my attempt to point out how ridiculous this whole fucking notion is of grown-ass adults swearing on others' lives, and to deprive it of its nonsensical power.
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Zell 17

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Raine said:
Oh good, I'm finally fucking dead.

I did the best job I could with the information available to me.

If anyone has a personal problem with that, my DMs are open.

Otherwise... I hope y'all had fun. 'Cause I did. :shrug
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I think you made a reasonable judgment given the information you had. It made sense that if TD was the illu, he would expend all of his kills before dying. No kills = TD isn't the illu.

The problem was, TD is the illusionist. He just had no kills to use. He tried to disguise Local the day prior, and was thwarted by the Jailer.
 
Jawneh

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Ants! said:
So wait, TD was the actual illusionist, Raine rezzed him and then died?
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It was looking very bad for the town as we weren't sure about Alu/Dean/Vash/kut and their roles. Benzine everyone kind of went along with being the bellringer thanks to the TD illusionist call which maybe we all eventually did buy into between all the confusion. But as we didn't know who the alpha was, who the shaman wolf was, and how many kills the illusionist had bagged, the town was boned. The day we lynched TD, I was still expecting there to be illusionist bodies before the lynch. If Dean is a BH and kut avenger and we all came to a consensus on that, we could've made a play against the wolves, but there was too much uncertainty to everything, and the town couldn't decide who to trust to find a win condition, so the next best thing was to bring a roadblock in the wolf victory.

Well, "the next best thing" is a strong combination of words. An amusing albeit fucked up thing sounds better. I'm all for it personally.
 
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Raine

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Smacktard said:
Swearing on a loved one's life is some playground bullshit. I'm not at all superstitious, so to me it ultimately means nothing, and my wife clarified to me that she's "not superstitious about things she didn't grow up with" (swearing on a loved one's life is not a "thing" in Arab culture, apparently). These words hold no power over her, over me, or over reality.
Click to expand...
It's not a matter of superstition, for me. I'm going around jokingly saying I worship Baphomet/Satan and shit, I routinely blaspheme against God. All that jazz.

...I was asked to choose whether I should call a father a bad one. To call a husband a poor one. In order to win a completely pointless, meaningless online game of deception between friends and friendly people.

I won't do it. I won't ever do it. If I'm calling you something like that, implied or not, I'm going to mean it. And so, I chose to lose. I'll sleep just fine tonight.

Tommy Boy said:
OUT OF CHARACTER: Dang I hope Raine isn't actually upset by the dead thread. She sounds very flustered from everything here and said she's livid.
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You're fine, love. It's the above that bothers me, not necessarily the dead thread lying.

Although the further implication of Dean's... misdeed, applying to you because you have to lie for or against his innocence, also didn't set well with me. I'm quite unhappy with that. My hands were trembling this morning and that is not a good sign.

Smacktard said:
@Raine You seem to think I get tilted about these games.
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Not exactly tilted, but like... you seemed more erratic than usual? Somewhat more paranoid? Something like that. There was a cadence in my perception of your post that resonated with some of my prior episodes, so where other people saw "Sus!" I was mostly just a little concerned?

If that makes sense. Absolutely not trying to be an armchair psychologist or anything. :)
 
Raine

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Ants! said:
So wait, TD was the actual illusionist, Raine rezzed him and then died?
Click to expand...
That would appear to be the case!

Everyone's running around lying, I had... 3 very valid candidates for who Illusionist was. My only "confirmed" co-townie was Jawneh, and I wasn't entirely confident in his ability to lead the town, so I made a choice.

Outside of Jawneh taking out the Fool (Local) and Blind Wolf (Smacktard), this town's goose was cooked. I think it's revisionist to imply my resurrecting the Illusionist is what caused the town to lose, per "yesterday's" thread. :chuckle

Jawneh said:
But as we didn't know who the alpha was, who the shaman wolf was, and how many kills the illusionist had bagged, the town was boned. The day we lynched TD, I was still expecting there to be illusionist bodies before the lynch.
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Yup. I mean shit the town didn't even have an accurate count on the number of wolves and Solos remaining, so besides "not great" I don't think there was much in the way of viable options. :rofl
 
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