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Zell Wolf You are dead

FWIW I only did this because Zell suggested it, and I wanted to play entirely "his" way and see what kind of game we ended up with. I've normally been accused for revealing my role too late (Day 2), and now I'm accused for revealing my role too early. Makes sense. Except, I wasn't accused for revealing my role too early last time I revealed it Day 1, when I was a townie.
Like I said, it was a gut thing. Last game, I wasn't 100% sure I could trust you, but Ants was adamant on Raine being a baddie so I threw a rock at her instead of Ben.

This time, your role claim just felt off. I was leaning more towards splashing Local if it's any consolation.
 

canadaguy

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I feel like voting for Benzine, Alu, or TD.

We know Raine is the Ritualist... or well, "know" as much as you can in this game.

I know I'm the Beast Hunter, even if you guys don't believe me.

Smacktard and Benzine were kinda together on some shit.

Alu has been hard to trust. So has TD.

Alu, why don't you shoot either Benzine or TD tonight, assuming you have one of them targeted? And we can lynch the other.

Hopefully you are all correct that Local Hero was the Fool.

Please don't be this ridiculous, unless you've been lying this whole time and are not townie.

If you aren't the wolf and are the Marksman, that means either Vash isn't the loudmouth, shortkut isn't the avenger, or Raine isn't the ritualist.

If you are the Marksman, we need Benzine dead.

But I have a feeling that you and Benzine are the last two wolves. You are the Alpha (maybe your new name can be Alpha Wolf) and Benzine is the Shaman Wolf.

Somethings fucky. How's he still possibly questioning Raine's role?
 

canadaguy

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And kut isn't a wolf
Tonight Show Laughing GIF by The Tonight Show Starring Jimmy Fallon
 
TD being Illusionist will blow Raine's mind
Not mine lol
Like I said, it was a gut thing. Last game, I wasn't 100% sure I could trust you, but Ants was adamant on Raine being a baddie so I threw a rock at her instead of Ben.

This time, your role claim just felt off. I was leaning more towards splashing Local if it's any consolation.
You still would have died, but yes that would have been amazing
Somethings fucky. How's he still possibly questioning Raine's role?
Dean is a dense dingus, or a doubly dangerous dingo
 

Smacktard

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IMPORTANT POST INCOMING
Hey you were the one person I didn't name lol. Sorry coach, can't let Dean get away with these war crimes
Okay, since it came up, I'm guessing it's because the "swear on my love one's life" thing, right? Well, I knew we were going to have to address this eventually, so let's get into it:

Joke answer:
It's in-universe roleplay, we're wolves lying about having family lol who cares, this isn't the real world.

Real answer:
I think it was really shitty that Dean introduced this idea of "swearing on your loved one's life."
I did not advise Dean to use that line
. Wolf is just a game, but it's a game where the entire point is to be emotionally manipulative and shitty. Even still, using your loved ones to justify a play or defend yourself is INCREDIBLY emotionally manipulative and shitty. A boundary was absolutely crossed and there should be rules forbidding that from future games.

Before I address the big question ("Why did you do it too?"), I think there are some things that I need to say.

I know I have a "bad guy" rep because:
  • I take these games seriously
  • I'm not afraid of lying in-game
  • I've been the evil in 3/4 Zell games.
But here's the thing: they're just games. They're games of DECEPTION. We're supposed to lie.

But bringing the real world into the game like Dean did? Not cool. That's mixing lies and fantasy with reality.

My parents raised me to never lie, to the point that I was maybe too forthcoming and blunt with my criticisms of other people/places/things when I was growing up. I couldn't even tell white lies. It was something I actually had to notice, acknowledge, and work to change about myself. But outside of games of deception, I just don't lie (excluding white lies to not hurt peoples' feelings).

All of that to say, I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt and trust what I have to say in the next part of my post, but I know many of you have probably already made up their minds about me.

So the big question: Why did I do the same thing Dean did, and swear on my wife's life?
  1. First of all, I asked my wife if I could do this and she said I could. We were both laying in bed, first thing in the morning. She still had her eyes closed, and I leaned over and asked her permission. She grinned, and gave me an "mhmm." Later in the day, after she woke up, I asked her if she remembered what she'd agreed to and she said she had no idea. I was mortified. She's a little bit superstitious, so I thought maybe she had genuinely slept through the whole thing and granted me permission to do something she wasn't comfortable with by accident, but when I tried explaining it to her, she remembered and said she didn't care. So me and my wife? We're fine. I wouldn't EVER want to do something that makes her uncomfortable -- even if I personally didn't believe in the voodoo magic powers of swearing on a loved one's life -- but if she's cool with it, I don't think it should matter to anyone else.

  2. Swearing on a loved one's life is some playground bullshit. I'm not at all superstitious, so to me it ultimately means nothing, and my wife clarified to me that she's "not superstitious about things she didn't grow up with" (swearing on a loved one's life is not a "thing" in Arab culture, apparently). These words hold no power over her, over me, or over reality.

  3. I offered it as a way to balance the claim of "I swear on <loved one's> life". If this power were unchecked, the game would end day 1 when all of the non wolves go, "I really super swear on my most loved person in the world's life that I'm not a wolf." I never would've made the claim in a vaccuum, but the second someone did, I felt like I had to deprive it of all power. It really didn't matter who was on whose team, what the intent was, etc. I thought a claim like that was shitty, no matter what. If the taboo around some superstitious playground-tier bullshit disappeared, then it wouldn't have any power.
So there's my take on it. I hope people don't hold my decision against me. I didn't use that line expecting that it would save my hide by any means -- everyone had been calling me sus already, and Jawneh said he had his sights on me and intended to let his arrow fly. I knew I was dead that night, it didn't matter what I said. It wasn't some manipulative mastermind play on my part. Rather, it was my attempt to point out how ridiculous this whole fucking notion is of grown-ass adults swearing on others' lives, and to deprive it of its nonsensical power.
 
If Dean and Vash are wolves, and Benzine and Alu are good. That leaves TD or kut as the Illusionist.

If TD is the Illusionist, there is still a chance for someone to pull out a win. If it's Vash and he doesn't get votes out or killed, I'm going to guess it's game over tomorrow.

You still would have died, but yes that would have been amazing
I was so looking forward to revealing my dumb plan. :(
 

canadaguy

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Messages
4,204
IMPORTANT POST INCOMING

Okay, since it came up, I'm guessing it's because the "swear on my love one's life" thing, right? Well, I knew we were going to have to address this eventually, so let's get into it:

Joke answer:
It's in-universe roleplay, we're wolves lying about having family lol who cares, this isn't the real world.

Real answer:
I think it was really shitty that Dean introduced this idea of "swearing on your loved one's life."
I did not advise Dean to use that line
. Wolf is just a game, but it's a game where the entire point is to be emotionally manipulative and shitty. Even still, using your loved ones to justify a play or defend yourself is INCREDIBLY emotionally manipulative and shitty. A boundary was absolutely crossed and there should be rules forbidding that from future games.

Before I address the big question ("Why did you do it too?"), I think there are some things that I need to say.

I know I have a "bad guy" rep because:
  • I take these games seriously
  • I'm not afraid of lying in-game
  • I've been the evil in 3/4 Zell games.
But here's the thing: they're just games. They're games of DECEPTION. We're supposed to lie.

But bringing the real world into the game like Dean did? Not cool. That's mixing lies and fantasy with reality.

My parents raised me to never lie, to the point that I was maybe too forthcoming and blunt with my criticisms of other people/places/things when I was growing up. I couldn't even tell white lies. It was something I actually had to notice, acknowledge, and work to change about myself. But outside of games of deception, I just don't lie (excluding white lies to not hurt peoples' feelings).

All of that to say, I hope you'll give me the benefit of the doubt and trust what I have to say in the next part of my post, but I know many of you have probably already made up their minds about me.

So the big question: Why did I do the same thing Dean did, and swear on my wife's life?
  1. First of all, I asked my wife if I could do this and she said I could. We were both laying in bed, first thing in the morning. She still had her eyes closed, and I leaned over and asked her permission. She grinned, and gave me an "mhmm." Later in the day, after she woke up, I asked her if she remembered what she'd agreed to and she said she had no idea. I was mortified. She's a little bit superstitious, so I thought maybe she had genuinely slept through the whole thing and granted me permission to do something she wasn't comfortable with by accident, but when I tried explaining it to her, she remembered and said she didn't care. So me and my wife? We're fine. I wouldn't EVER want to do something that makes her uncomfortable -- even if I personally didn't believe in the voodoo magic powers of swearing on a loved one's life -- but if she's cool with it, I don't think it should matter to anyone else.

  2. Swearing on a loved one's life is some playground bullshit. I'm not at all superstitious, so to me it ultimately means nothing, and my wife clarified to me that she's "not superstitious about things she didn't grow up with" (swearing on a loved one's life is not a "thing" in Arab culture, apparently). These words hold no power over her, over me, or over reality.

  3. I offered it as a way to balance the claim of "I swear on <loved one's> life". If this power were unchecked, the game would end day 1 when all of the non wolves go, "I really super swear on my most loved person in the world's life that I'm not a wolf." I never would've made the claim in a vaccuum, but the second someone did, I felt like I had to deprive it of all power. It really didn't matter who was on whose team, what the intent was, etc. I thought a claim like that was shitty, no matter what. If the taboo around some superstitious playground-tier bullshit disappeared, then it wouldn't have any power.
So there's my take on it. I hope people don't hold my decision against me. I didn't use that line expecting that it would save my hide by any means -- everyone had been calling me sus already, and Jawneh said he had his sights on me and intended to let his arrow fly. I knew I was dead that night, it didn't matter what I said. It wasn't some manipulative mastermind play on my part. Rather, it was my attempt to point out how ridiculous this whole fucking notion is of grown-ass adults swearing on others' lives, and deprive it of its nonsensical power.
Yeah but what if all this is a lie?
 
I mean about the only thing I'm sure of is that Raine is the ritualist
Something that is fun about these games: you never know who is going to get put in the pressure cooker or how they are going to handle it.

And if you get a less powerful role? That just means you are likely going to be around longer and your decisions are going to have a lot more importance/pressure.
 
Something that is fun about these games: you never know who is going to get put in the pressure cooker or how they are going to handle it.

And if you get a less powerful role? That just means you are likely going to be around longer and your decisions are going to have a lot more importance/pressure.
Notice almost all of the guaranteed roles are gone. Lots of “randoms” left.
 

Jawneh

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Regardless of results, you did your job. Town MVP for me if they can actually pull it off
Nice!

If it does end up being Dean as the alphablike the original idea was, I'll be a tad bit upset. I was on the fence about having Alu pull the trigger too and take claim of his shot too (three confirmed hits ad marksman in one game, let's gooo), but at this point reading through this side of game I'm getting worried about everything being real anymore...
 

canadaguy

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When I was flagger everyone that got killed was like "why flagger no protect me what an idiot" and then I fucking wrecked the instigator .

But when it's beast hunters who do fuck all, everyone's like "yeah good plan. Thanks for contributing nothing"
 
OUT OF CHARACTER: Dang I hope Raine isn't actually upset by the dead thread. She sounds very flustered from everything here and said she's livid. I'd expect Dean to be mad at me but it's all in the spirit of the game. I don't harbor any bad feelings or ill intent to anyone - those I've named, my teammates, the town. My intention is never, and will never be, to hurt feelings. I think Dean using his daughter was bad taste but like I'm not pissed off at him or anything. He did what he thought was right in that moment. Same with me. I hope everyone can see this when the game is done. Also sorry Vash. 🥺
 
OUT OF CHARACTER: Dang I hope Raine isn't actually upset by the dead thread. She sounds very flustered from everything here and said she's livid. I'd expect Dean to be mad at me but it's all in the spirit of the game. I don't harbor any bad feelings or ill intent to anyone - those I've named, my teammates, the town. My intention is never, and will never be, to hurt feelings. I think Dean using his daughter was bad taste but like I'm not pissed off at him or anything. He did what he thought was right in that moment. Same with me. I hope everyone can see this when the game is done. Also sorry Vash. 🥺
You didn’t do anything wrong. I actually like Tubby’s play too even though it’s a huge gambit. The only thing I might have done different in Tubby’s place is post admission that you made up the info right before the day closed JUST IN CASE you got killed.
 

canadaguy

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You didn’t do anything wrong. I actually like Tubby’s play too even though it’s a huge gambit. The only thing I might have done different in Tubby’s place is post admission that you made up the info right before the day closed JUST IN CASE you got killed.
Yeah just set a post to publish 1 minute before end of day. Too early and maybe everyone jumps off the bandwagon
 

canadaguy

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I think we need a new Tubby badge for doing something absolutely insane that somehow pays off.

Could even vote each game like the MVP
 

Smacktard

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@Raine You seem to think I get tilted about these games.

I hope I don't give off that impression. I DO have some moments like:
images

...but I'm never genuinely upset. Even when people take shots at me or vote against me -- they're doing what to them is most logical (and, as far as concerns me, most often correct). I take my role in the game seriously, but in the end it's still just a game.
 
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