Zell Wolf You are dead

[canadaguy]

It's a good strategy but the problem in pulling a random role that has no action it's unprovable. The shaman wolfing certainly didn't help you either lol

Wonder if it was him or Ants who was shamaned.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The problem is that Loudmouth pretty much requires you to die to be useful.

Yeah, if I had do it over again I know how I'd play it.

I'm a big board game guy and one of the things that takes points off of a game for me is when there's player elimination. Obviously it's a necessity in Wolf, but the idea of having to basically eliminate MYSELF to be useful was a super discouraging notion and took me right out of the game for a bit. I play the game to shoot the shit and have fun with you guys.

The idea that I could be resurrected didn't occur until it was too late. Clearly resurrecting the random killer was a safer play.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Wonder if it was him or Ants who was shamaned.

Oh BY THE FUCKING WAY

Yall motherfuckers realize there's more than 2 numbers, right?

 

[A Punched Face]

Hey @TD what i was telling you after a previous game is that one of my main strategies is to look just sus enough that the baddies think they can keep me around to draw heat but not so sus that I'm an obvious lynch.

Of course a drawback of this strategy is that when I scream from the rooftops what my real role is, no one believes me.

I mean I 100% believed you and hoped you'd target me with it after lynching you.

 

[A Punched Face]

Oh BY THE FUCKING WAY

Yall motherfuckers realize there's more than 2 numbers, right?

Benzine was asleep and picked 1 while doing it.

 

[canadaguy]

Oh BY THE FUCKING WAY

Yall motherfuckers realize there's more than 2 numbers, right?

OK Mr 1 and 16

 

[A Punched Face]

"Power on. 1 in case I forget. Back to sleep. If 1 is us is is go 2

Good night"

 

[TD]

Y'all out here picking convenient numbers.

I'm out here picking number 10 and thanos snapping him before he can even wet someone.

 

[Smacktard]

Y'all out here picking convenient numbers.

I'm out here picking number 10 and thanos snapping him before he can even wet someone.

I was literally thinking this morning "next time I'm gonna pick 10. Who the fuck picks 10?"

Back to the number-drawing board

 

[Jawneh]

I picked 6 at first since Zell said last game that it was a very common number to seer and whatnot. So I figured if that person was going to be sus, someone would have dirt on them.

 

[TD]

The only time I went on the offensive was when I became certain TD was Illusionist, which, of course, he was.

...which for the record, I was actually trying to work with you until you got all aggressive about it lol.

 

[Smacktard]

...which for the record, I was actually trying to work with you until you got all aggressive about it lol.

Therein lies the problem with the RK. They need to work with the wolves, but they need cred from the village. So in public, they name and shame wolves, draw attention towards them, go on the offensive. I was willing to work with you until you really started focusing on me. It's doubly precarious when you kill someone the first day and you don't know whether they're a wolf or not. As RK you need to closely track wolves vs townies, and you're not really able to do that.

Plus, there will eventually come a point where RK and wolves have to turn on each other. We all felt that the next day was *that* day. We didn't count on the Ritualist bringing back the RK because who tf does that? And furthermore we didn't count on the town voting for the non-RK the next day immediately after having voted him off the day prior.

Don't forget when you were wolves, you did the same thing to me -- you turned on me at the worst possible moment

 

[TD]

Therein lies the problem with the RK. They need to work with the wolves, but they need cred from the village. So in public, they name and shame wolves, draw attention towards them, go on the offensive. I was willing to work with you until you really started focusing on me. It's doubly precarious when you kill someone the first day and you don't know whether they're a wolf or not. As RK you need to closely track wolves vs townies, and you're not really able to do that.

But I wasn't really going after you hard at all. I think at most maybe Dean and Local jumped on but I needed you to know I knew. My main concern was that you thought I tagged you lol. Heck, when you called me the Illusionist first thing I said was "I'm only gonna kill wolves", I purposely left out Illusionist. I'm sure I could've said "I'm only gonna kill wolves that don't look like me" but that mighta been to obvious. I even kept telling you that you could be an ally.

I'm guessing my intended message was not received so when you did it again I took it as the wolves declaring war on me.

 

[Raine]

We didn't count on the Ritualist bringing back the RK because who tf does that?

Not the exact effect I was going for, but... hey if it works, it works.

I didn't have a solid grasp on just how close the town was to losing until Tubby's bombshell, but I knew it was close. The town had bled heavily by the time Day 2 rolled around, and it seemed like they were being pretty lackadaisical through to the afternoon. Was really hoping TD was actually, y'know, pro-town, but being the RK restored the block on the wolves' win condition.

I don't know when exactly, but sometime during Day 3 I just decided I no longer cared whether the town actually won or not. I just wanted the wolves to lose.
so I could be on the first winning wolf team lmao

 

[Smacktard]

I even kept telling you that you could be an ally.

Yes, I should've trusted you in this game of deception

But I wasn't really going after you hard at all

Lol, you voted for me every single day, and got others to switch their votes to me. It's sort of what you're supposed to do as RK, keep town and wolves in balance, but you can't say you weren't going after me hard.

I just wanted the wolves to lose.

And I think therein lies a balance problem in this game. I think people want the wolves to lose *so badly* that they would prefer to give the game away to the RK and SK.

 

[Tubby23]

Sign Ups: Australian Dingo: Predator vs Prey - Ep 1: Steve's Legacy

Crikey! And welcome to sign ups. Hopefully we can all have fun and get along, unlike these birds: Hoping to run this after the completion of Zell's game, pending getting the list of Night 1 allowed actions and Nightly action order confirmed. This will be my first time hosting a game of my own...

gwforums.com

 

[TD]

And I think therein lies a balance problem in this game. I think people want the wolves to lose *so badly* that they would prefer to give the game away to the RK and SK.

Let's not say that like the RK/SK have won anything here though. Honestly wouldn't mind if we did without the whole point system but i actually don't know if that factors into how people play, I see it brought up usually though.

 

[Raine]

And I think therein lies a balance problem in this game. I think people want the wolves to lose *so badly* that they would prefer to give the game away to the RK and SK.

I mean I had no intention of letting the Fool or Illusionist win, either!

Functionally, the RK is untraceable. There's no methodology that can be observed from what they target Night 0 through the random numbers, and unless/if they choose to kill it's a bit of a fool's errand to specifically gun for them unless you have a Seer-like role. The wolves, on the other hand...

Honestly wouldn't mind if we did without the whole point system but i actually don't know if that factors into how people play, I see it brought up usually though.

I care so little I couldn't tell you how many points I have. I also skip a lot of games so it's a non-starter on that basis alone.

 

[Dean]

Somethings fucky. How's he still possibly questioning Raine's role?

He's in a corner lying through his teeth

Nailed Alu being Alpha and Benzine being a wolf.

I expect some kudos

I love rereading everyone flipping out on me for supposed false role claiming. Hilarious.

 

[Dean]

Dean is a dense dingus, or a doubly dangerous dingo

I'm a dense and dangerous motherfucker

 

[Tubby23]

Nailed Alu being Alpha and Benzine being a wolf.

I expect some kudos

I love rereading everyone flipping out on me for supposed false role claiming. Hilarious.

 

[Mark]

I'm a dense and dangerous motherfucker

This might be my new favorite phrase.

 

[Dean]

Oh Dean. The wolves don't need to even kill at night. They'd just not do it and win.

This was more dense than dangerous

I don't know why people are mentioning the possibility of a draw. There is no draw possibility.

There are no draws. Only winners and losers.

Lololol

 

[TD]

I love rereading everyone flipping out on me for supposed false role claiming. Hilarious.

There has been some serious trauma in these games from certain false role claims.

 

[Mark]

There has been some serious trauma in these games from certain false role claims.

…and the therapist has left the building.

 

[TD]

…and the therapist has left the building.

 

[Smacktard]

Let's not say that like the RK/SK have won anything here though.

No, but there was a chance where they were close. I think depending on your role, you have a preference over who should win if not your own team. RV would probably side with Town, Wolves wouldn't want the RK to win, and Town wouldn't want the wolves to win.

There's no methodology that can be observed from what they target Night 0 through the random numbers

Trying to get reads from random numbers is illogical. It may as well be numerology.

I mean I had no intention of letting the Fool or Illusionist win, either!

No, but I recall another game where Raposa was the RK (and could've had a 50/50 shot at winning if he played differently), and I remember people saying they'd prefer to give the game to the RK over the wolves at that point. I think the same sort of anti-wolf resentment is typical for a lot of people. If I were on the town, I'd probably feel the same way.

 

[Dean]

I do want to apologize for the swearing on family thing, as I realize it was over the top and had the ability to ruin future games. It was kind of a spur of the moment, what else can I do to convince these people kind of thing. Like I said in the game, genuinely I didn't want people to accuse me of not doing more, especially after I didn't want to role claim in prior games for whatever weird reason. But anyway, regardless of all that, it was poor form and I won't be doing that again.

Sorry if it bothered anybody.

 

[Smacktard]

I do want to apologize for the swearing on family thing, as I realize it was over the top and had the ability to ruin future games. It was kind of a spur of the moment, what else can I do to convince these people kind of thing. Like I said in the game, genuinely I didn't want people to accuse me of not doing more, especially after I didn't want to role claim in prior games for whatever weird reason. But anyway, regardless of all that, it was poor form and I won't be doing that again.

Sorry if it bothered anybody.

I think it was an unsportsmanlike move, but I'm not going to hold it against you. It was a mistake. I think it was a bad decision, but that doesn't make you a bad person/player. You were trying to do what you thought would be best to win the game, and you were heartfelt about it -- you didn't have any ill intent.

Just don't do it again

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Therein lies the problem with the RK. They need to work with the wolves, but they need cred from the village. So in public, they name and shame wolves, draw attention towards them, go on the offensive. I was willing to work with you until you really started focusing on me. It's doubly precarious when you kill someone the first day and you don't know whether they're a wolf or not. As RK you need to closely track wolves vs townies, and you're not really able to do that.

Plus, there will eventually come a point where RK and wolves have to turn on each other. We all felt that the next day was *that* day. We didn't count on the Ritualist bringing back the RK because who tf does that? And furthermore we didn't count on the town voting for the non-RK the next day immediately after having voted him off the day prior.

Don't forget when you were wolves, you did the same thing to me -- you turned on me at the worst possible moment

The wolves AND the Villagers need the RK alive at the beginning. The Villagers need the RK alive because the wolves can't kill the RK but they can be killed by him.

The wolves need the RK alive because he can help eliminate Villagers and help even the odds for the Wolves. It's later in the game that everyone needs the RK dead.

The only one who needs the RK dead at any point is the Random Guesser because the RK can fuck their shit up and guarantee them a loss.

 

[Dean]

Also, as unfortunate as @Ants! throwing water at shortkut was, I envy him. I don't have the balls to do crazy moves like that, or at least I haven't yet. My two games as pro-town, I've been all about self-preservation. When I was the Marksman, I was afraid to shoot anybody for fear I would hit a villager. As Beast Hunter, I could've tried to move my trap to Raine or something, but I kept it on myself. I need to get out of my comfort zone. These games have some crazy roles and I'm very very rusty. I hope to get better as I keep playing.

 

[TD]

I don't know if I necessarily had a problem with it myself as much as I felt that "holy shit that could be some bad juju" feeling.

 

[Dean]

I don't know if I necessarily had a problem with it myself as much as I felt that "holy shit that could be some bad juju" feeling.

It was much too serious in a game that is meant to be fun. I'm not really superstitious, but it's one of those things I would only ever say if I was 100% truthful and wanted to convey that level of honesty. It was unsportsmanlike. I'll take all the criticism from everyone for it. If I could go back, I would not do it again, and I appreciate people being cool about it and understanding that I realize it was a mistake.

 

[TD]

Also, as unfortunate as @Ants! throwing water at shortkut was, I envy him. I don't have the balls to do crazy moves like that, or at least I haven't yet. My two games as pro-town, I've been all about self-preservation. When I was the Marksman, I was afraid to shoot anybody for fear I would hit a villager. As Beast Hunter, I could've tried to move my trap to Raine or something, but I kept it on myself. I need to get out of my comfort zone. These games have some crazy roles and I'm very very rusty. I hope to get better as I keep playing.

This happens more than you think. A lot of people don't want to have fear of ruining the game for people but it's a game built on deception and it's impossible to be right about everything always. Mistakes happen and eventually you get used to it.

 

[Smacktard]

The wolves AND the Villagers need the RK alive at the beginning. The Villagers need the RK alive because the wolves can't kill the RK but they can be killed by him.

The Villagers don't need the RK alive at the beginning cause early game kills tend to mostly target townies (Fire elemental Vash as an exception, of course). If you start a game off claiming to be RK, you're going to bed dead first lynch.

 

[Smacktard]

I want to hear @Benzine 's post-game thoughts.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I want to hear @Benzine 's post-game thoughts.

Yeah I am definitely curious as well.

I'm not used to seeing nobody talk about how they're disappointed in me after a game and he might be my last hope.

 

[Tubby23]

Yeah I am definitely curious as well.

I'm not used to seeing nobody talk about how they're disappointed in me after a game and he might be my last hope.

I'm disappointed you didn't go into business for yourself, brother

 

[VashTheStampede]

I'm disappointed you didn't go into business for yourself, brother

I'm honestly shocked no one else did.

I thought the town was at near 0% chance of survival. I'd say more but... I really shouldn't.

 

[Tubby23]

I'm honestly shocked no one else did.

I thought the town was at near 0% chance of survival. I'd say more but... I really shouldn't.

 

[VashTheStampede]

 

[Tubby23]

 

[VashTheStampede]

Right now Raine spelled herself, which I intend to disallow in future games but didn't specify for this game.

I would like to say that I appreciate you deciding on making changes between games and letting a loophole ride on this one.

 

[Raine]

I would like to say that I appreciate you deciding on making changes between games and letting a loophole ride on this one.

I adhered to the rule myself anyway, after Night 0.

I had it on Alu the Alpha Wolf the longest, followed by a brief period on Jawneh and then... WELL YOU KNOW THE REST.

 

[A Punched Face]

I adhered to the rule myself anyway, after Night 0.

I had it on Alu the Alpha Wolf the longest, followed by a brief period on Jawneh and then... WELL YOU KNOW THE REST.

Was thinking about killing you the night you had it on me. Would have been amazing!

We decided against letting tubby getting an easy sheriff on you though.

 

[Zell 17]

I would like to say that I appreciate you deciding on making changes between games and letting a loophole ride on this one.

I'm trying not to change a rule during the game unless it's game breaking.

The one I did change midgame was the wolf seer order. I changed it so the wolf seer checks before the Illusionist disguises. The reason was if I made the wolf seer wait until after the Illu made their choice, it's possible that the Illu could wait until the very end of the phase to decide. In that case, the wolves would have no ability to make an informed choice on who to kill because they wouldn't get their wolf seer results in time before they had to choose a person to kill. That to me was game breaking, so I swapped it.

 

[Raine]

Was thinking about killing you the night you had it on me. Would have been amazing!

We decided against letting tubby getting an easy sheriff on you though.

I wonder if a nigh-unkillable Alpha Wolf would have outweighed whatever Tubby came up with, especially since that would be on a delay in the event anyone but me had their finger on the trigger with that Wolf Rank inconsistency.

So many crazy swings this game could have taken, on top of the ones it already did.

 

[Raine]

@shortkut I see you reacting back there! You pushing so hard to skip phases basically shot my "He's the fucking Illusionist " radar into outer space, regardless of what I had previously thought.

 

[TD]

The one I did change midgame was the wolf seer order. I changed it so the wolf seer checks before the Illusionist disguises. The reason was if I made the wolf seer wait until after the Illu made their choice, it's possible that the Illu could wait until the very end of the phase to decide. In that case, the wolves would have no ability to make an informed choice on who to kill because they wouldn't get their wolf seer results in time before they had to choose a person to kill. That to me was game breaking, so I swapped it.

I have to be honest with you.

I was not at all happy with this. It changed everything for me and it irked me in a really bad way.

I do not think action order should be changed mid game and I would have been perfectly content getting my reads to you within a certain time of the night phase like I initially suggested.

Hell, if the game started with that action order I would not have killed FR Day 1 and who knows who he targets.

 

[Local Hero]

I have to be honest with you.

I was not at all happy with this. It changed everything for me and it irked me in a really bad way.

I do not think action order should be changed mid game and I would have been perfectly content getting my reads to you within a certain time of the night phase like I initially suggested.

Hell, if the game started with that action order I would not have killed FR Day 1 and who knows who he targets.

Still a good change. Sorry it affected you, but can't deny it was needed.