Breaking Satellite Images Show 30% of Gaza Destroyed

[VashTheStampede]

Satellite images show 30% of Gaza destroyed, UN center says

Air strikes, shelling, and demolitions have razed entire city districts, including much civilian infrastructure.

m.jpost.com

Over 11k Palestinian children have been killed according to Al Jazeera.



The majority of hospitals in Gaza are inoperable due to Israeli bombings. Israel claims that Hamas was operating out of or below all these hospitals.

Things have really escalated since we last touched this topic.

Sorry, I didn't know which tag to use on the thread but something is definitely breaking.

 

[TD]

Speaking of breaking - you can also include my heart from reading this.

It fucking sucks that this is happening.

 

[Raine]

Meanwhile, upstanding individuals continue to be fired and ostracized - if not actually killed - for calling a spade a spade.

The word is genocide. Israel is responsible, and Israel is evil.

There isn't a damn thing any normal person can do to help, either, which sucks. The leadership in the US in particular have acted in abhorrent fashion.

 

[shortkut]

The word is genocide. Israel is responsible, and Israel is evil.

This is what started the conflict in the other thread with this topic. Using wording to equate the actions to attack an entire people.

The government of Israel is ordering atrocities that are being carried out by the military.

When people bring up the other side, the terrorists in Gaza are, in the same way, representative of the Palestinian people

 

[VashTheStampede]

If I say the US is bombing Iraq and Syria, I'm not saying that the American people are all coming together to bomb these countries, I'm saying that the leadership of the country is doing these things.

Can we all agree going forward that using the name of the countries involved is not indicating that the rank and file citizens of the country are wholly responsible?

I think a ground rule like that could go a long way.

 

[VashTheStampede]

tl;Dr:

Israel != Israelis

 

[shortkut]

If I say the US is bombing Iraq and Syria, I'm not saying that the American people are all coming together to bomb these countries, I'm saying that the leadership of the country is doing these things.

Can we all agree going forward that using the name of the countries involved is not indicating that the rank and file citizens of the country are wholly responsible?

I think a ground rule like that could go a long way.

I’m okay with that. I posted minimally in the previous thread, but that issue was something that came up multiple times

 

[shortkut]

tl;Dr:

Israel != Israelis

Don’t forget
Palestinians ≠ terrorists
Hamas does not speak for the Palestinian people

It is very easy to cherry pick videos and interviews with citizens from each side reveling in the massacre of the other side, so finding one of them does not prove any point other than humans suck to the point where Alu doesn’t even register on the scale

 

[Raine]

tl;Dr:

Israel != Israelis

Israel =/= Israelis =/= Jewish people.

That last part is super important because that's the defacto defense and derail.

This is not a war of Religion, it's not a war of ethnostates, it's not even a war - it's largely one-sided genocide. It's ethnic cleansing. The government of Israel is unmitigated, indefensible evil incarnate. "Hamas" exists simultaneously as a legitimately bad, unkillable evil (that grows stronger through Israel's actions) and a pathetic veneer to cover for their own misdeeds such as those outlined in the opening post.

That does not mean they have a monopoly on being evil, either. Hamas is not "good" because the Israeli government is evil. But Hamas is not children, not bodies being run over with bulldozers, not buried in the graveyards being desecrated and the hospitals that were starved/bombed/shot up.

 

[Mark]

If I say the US is bombing Iraq and Syria, I'm not saying that the American people are all coming together to bomb these countries, I'm saying that the leadership of the country is doing these things.

Can we all agree going forward that using the name of the countries involved is not indicating that the rank and file citizens of the country are wholly responsible?

I think a ground rule like that could go a long way.

This.

Below is not a reply to Vash directly, but a general statement after the last thread:

In the same sense, I don’t want to see any shit flinging because one person has an opinion that doesn’t agree with another’s. Just because someone feels one side is to blame over the other, or more at fault, or however it can be phrased doesn’t mean that person is on the front lines taking lives.

Education is key with these kind of events. We all know this. Instead of using the community as a platform to shit on someone for what they think, use it as an opportunity to share information with them. It takes just as much effort to type up an explanation or provide information as it does to talk shit, and we all know there is more than enough hatred out there in the world. We don’t need it here.

Anyone that can’t participate in this discussion without being disrespectful to the other people in it shouldn’t be a part of this discussion. Period. Y’all know that not a single person here is responsible for what’s going on over there, and just because they don’t see it the way you do doesn’t give anyone a free pass to be disrespectful. You might be offended by what someone says. You SHOULD be. It’s a tragic situation with a ton of innocent casualties on both sides of the conflict, whether you want to see it that way or not. There are innocent children of Hamas losing their father’s to this. There are innocent Palestinian kids our kid’s ages and younger getting blown the fuck up. There are Israeli kids suffering the same fate. This should strike a chord with you all, because this is where places like the US are headed. Think about what’s going on over there between TWO factions, and then think about what kind of powder keg we’re sitting on with all of the factions here. If y’all’s grandkids were in the same place that those kids over there are in now… y’all wouldn’t be worried about arguing semantics or about who hit who first. You’d be trying to figure out how to put a stop to it.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Vash - I know you had mentioned really wanting a place to be able to discuss this topic with, well, basically anyone. I'm hoping the topic can stay civil enough that we can all use it like that.


But I 100% agree with the ground rules that have been put forth in here. We don't need to strawman ourselves into arguments, this is a sensitive enough topic as it is.

 

[Raine]

With the specific consideration of further distinguishing between the name "Israel" as shorthand for the leadership/government of the country and the concept of the "Israeli people" insofar that the former does not equal nor represent (all of) the latter:

Article:

Only 15% of Israelis want Netanyahu to keep job after Gaza war, poll finds

JERUSALEM, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Only 15% of Israelis want Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to stay in office after the war on Hamas in Gaza ends, though many more still support his strategy of crushing the militants in the Palestinian enclave, according to a poll published on Tuesday.

Netanyahu promised to crush Hamas after its Oct. 7 rampage in southern Israel in which 1,200 people were killed and 240 abducted to Gaza. Israeli forces have laid much of Gaza to waste in their nearly three-month retalitory offensive.

Netanyahu has said such intense military pressure is also vital to ensure that the remaining 129 hostages still held in Gaza are returned after around 100 were freed in late November in a swap deal also involving hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

In the poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI), 56% of those questioned said continuing the military offensive was the best way to recover the hostages, while 24% thought a swap deal including the release of thousands more Palestinian prisoners from Israel's jails would be best.

More than 22,000 Palestinians have been killed in the war, according to Gaza health officials, and most of the population displaced. Israel says it has killed some 8,000 Palestinian fighters and has vowed to hunt down Hamas leaders.

But a mere 15% want Netanyahu to be prime minister once the war is over, the poll showed. His political rival and present war cabinet partner, centrist Benny Gantz, garnered support from 23% of interviewees. Around 30% named no preferred leader.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/

It would be editorializing to not point out that the genocide is not the only, if truly even the primary, reason the Israeli populous doesn't want more of Netanyahu's bullshit though. Such as:

Article:

More Israelis blame Netanyahu for security lapses that led to Hamas attack

Israel's military and officials from Prime Minister Netanyahu's ruling party have acknowledged intelligence failures, and accepted responsibility for security lapses on Oct 7. Netanyahu has not.

...

FRAYER: "I call on all Likud officials to do the same," said Tamir Idan, waving his resignation letter. Netanyahu's defense minister, the military chief of staff and the head of the domestic security agency have all accepted responsibility. Netanyahu says there will be an investigation, but only after the war. Meanwhile, in the streets...

Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/1211724903/amid-plummeting-approval-ratings-he-s-blamed-those-around-him

And there's stuff like this assortment of polls from Gallup, trying to loosely gauge general sentiment over time with regards to things like the Two-State Solution.

Article:

1. Israelis No Longer Support a Two-State Solution

One in four Israeli adults currently support the existence of an independent Palestinian state, while most (65%) oppose it. This is almost a complete reversal of where they stood on the issue a decade ago, when twice as many Israeli adults supported an independent Palestinian state (61%) as opposed one (30%).

This change in attitudes mirrors the shift in public opinion in the Palestinian Territories shortly before the war between Israel and Hamas began. Almost one in four Palestinians (24%) surveyed between July and September of this year supported a two-state solution, down from 59% in 2012.

In both cases, it is not clear how opinions have changed annually over the past decade because of the 11-year gap in measurement between 2012 and 2023. As a result, Gallup cannot attribute Israelis’ drop in support for a two-state solution to the recent conflict alone.

Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/547760/life-israel-oct-charts.aspx

 

[VashTheStampede]

I do think, if asked, that most Israelis would point to the Hamas attack that preceded the current situation as the main reasoning for no longer supporting a two-state solution.

But, as Gallup implies, I have no way of knowing how they would have responded directly preceding this situation, so its just an assumption.

I also really hate the term "conflict" being used because that implies more even footing in the attacks. Its like calling a cop shooting someone an "officer-involved shooting".

 

[Raine]

Recency and the ongoing threat cannot be overstated, yes. And will linger for a very long time to come once everything is said and done, regardless of the particular details concerning what remains.

I also really hate the term "conflict" being used because that implies more even footing in the attacks. Its like calling a cop shooting someone an "officer-involved shooting".

Correct. Framing is a devious and all too common deception tactic, intentional or otherwise. I personally take more issue with blindly parroting statements - from government officials, from the military, from the police - and presenting those as fact though. Specifically this bit:

8,000 Palestinian fighters

Does such an immense amount of heavy lifting and dehumanizing that's it's fucking comical.

1) "Palestinian fighters" =/= Hamas soldiers
2) Palestinian fighters = rough estimates of male-presenting bodies roughly guessed to be between the ages of 16 and 64. Or thereabouts, at least.

The sentence should say:

Israel says it has killed some 8,000 Palestinian men, 14,000 Palestinian women and children and has vowed to hunt down Hamas leaders.

This isn't unique to Israel, obviously. Every government and military force does this with their propaganda. But any amount of critical thinking lays the truth bare.

 

[Mark]

Has anyone seen any confirmation of flooding the tunnels yet? I’ve seen lots of talk about it creating an environmental crisis akin to how if a sewage system collects too much rain and backs sewage up into houses.

 

[Leandros?]

With the specific consideration of further distinguishing between the name "Israel" as shorthand for the leadership/government of the country and the concept of the "Israeli people" insofar that the former does not equal nor represent (all of) the latter:

Article:

Only 15% of Israelis want Netanyahu to keep job after Gaza war, poll finds

JERUSALEM, Jan 2 (Reuters) - Only 15% of Israelis want Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu to stay in office after the war on Hamas in Gaza ends, though many more still support his strategy of crushing the militants in the Palestinian enclave, according to a poll published on Tuesday.

Netanyahu promised to crush Hamas after its Oct. 7 rampage in southern Israel in which 1,200 people were killed and 240 abducted to Gaza. Israeli forces have laid much of Gaza to waste in their nearly three-month retalitory offensive.

Netanyahu has said such intense military pressure is also vital to ensure that the remaining 129 hostages still held in Gaza are returned after around 100 were freed in late November in a swap deal also involving hundreds of Palestinian prisoners.

In the poll conducted by the Israel Democracy Institute (IDI), 56% of those questioned said continuing the military offensive was the best way to recover the hostages, while 24% thought a swap deal including the release of thousands more Palestinian prisoners from Israel's jails would be best.

More than 22,000 Palestinians have been killed in the war, according to Gaza health officials, and most of the population displaced. Israel says it has killed some 8,000 Palestinian fighters and has vowed to hunt down Hamas leaders.

But a mere 15% want Netanyahu to be prime minister once the war is over, the poll showed. His political rival and present war cabinet partner, centrist Benny Gantz, garnered support from 23% of interviewees. Around 30% named no preferred leader.

Source: https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/only-15-israelis-want-netanyahu-keep-job-after-gaza-war-poll-finds-2024-01-02/

It would be editorializing to not point out that the genocide is not the only, if truly even the primary, reason the Israeli populous doesn't want more of Netanyahu's bullshit though. Such as:

Article:

More Israelis blame Netanyahu for security lapses that led to Hamas attack

Israel's military and officials from Prime Minister Netanyahu's ruling party have acknowledged intelligence failures, and accepted responsibility for security lapses on Oct 7. Netanyahu has not.

...

FRAYER: "I call on all Likud officials to do the same," said Tamir Idan, waving his resignation letter. Netanyahu's defense minister, the military chief of staff and the head of the domestic security agency have all accepted responsibility. Netanyahu says there will be an investigation, but only after the war. Meanwhile, in the streets...

Source: https://www.npr.org/2023/11/09/1211724903/amid-plummeting-approval-ratings-he-s-blamed-those-around-him

And there's stuff like this assortment of polls from Gallup, trying to loosely gauge general sentiment over time with regards to things like the Two-State Solution.

Article:

1. Israelis No Longer Support a Two-State Solution

One in four Israeli adults currently support the existence of an independent Palestinian state, while most (65%) oppose it. This is almost a complete reversal of where they stood on the issue a decade ago, when twice as many Israeli adults supported an independent Palestinian state (61%) as opposed one (30%).

This change in attitudes mirrors the shift in public opinion in the Palestinian Territories shortly before the war between Israel and Hamas began. Almost one in four Palestinians (24%) surveyed between July and September of this year supported a two-state solution, down from 59% in 2012.

In both cases, it is not clear how opinions have changed annually over the past decade because of the 11-year gap in measurement between 2012 and 2023. As a result, Gallup cannot attribute Israelis’ drop in support for a two-state solution to the recent conflict alone.

Source: https://news.gallup.com/poll/547760/life-israel-oct-charts.aspx

Sorry bud but this is utter nonsense. The Israeli government is being blamed for this failure to prevent the deaths of Israelis, not for the deaths of so many Palestinians. In fact that (non-Arab) Israeli populace by and large want to step up the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and have been moving to an even extremer right as a whole, as can be found in surveys from the Israeli Democracy Institute and Knesset polling. Israel is not the Israeli government is not all Israeli people, but any critical view of these kinds of articles will easily show how much the writers are dancing around the facts.
Blaming Likud/Bibi is purely a western fantasy to distract from the fact that Israel has had 80 years of ethnonationalism baked into people's minds. Also Gallup using the term "Palestinian Territories" to plant the idea that Palestine is not a country, as well as not providing any clarification on the question as to what Israelis support instead of a 2-state solution, should be enough to throw up some red flags.

Has anyone seen any confirmation of flooding the tunnels yet? I've seen lots of talk about it creating an environmental crisis akin to how if a sewage system collects too much rain and backs sewage up into houses.

They've been doing it, they've been failing at affecting Hamas on a large scale. The Vietcong had ways of preventing this, there is no reason to assume Hamas would not. I'm sure it'll have lasting effects on ground water though.

 

[Mark]

Sorry bud but this is utter nonsense. The Israeli government is being blamed for this failure to prevent the deaths of Israelis, not for the deaths of so many Palestinians. In fact that (non-Arab) Israeli populace by and large want to step up the ethnic cleansing of Palestine and have been moving to an even extremer right as a whole, as can be found in surveys from the Israeli Democracy Institute and Knesset polling. Israel is not the Israeli government is not all Israeli people, but any critical view of these kinds of articles will easily show how much the writers are dancing around the facts.
Blaming Likud/Bibi is purely a western fantasy to distract from the fact that Israel has had 80 years of ethnonationalism baked into people's minds. Also Gallup using the term "Palestinian Territories" to plant the idea that Palestine is not a country, as well as not providing any clarification on the question as to what Israelis support instead of a 2-state solution, should be enough to throw up some red flags.

We’ve been seeing a shift in media coverage and tone over here in the west as this has gone on. Kinda hard for there to not be a change when the talk from Israel was about Hamas personnel infiltrating and posing as doctors and such only for there to be a press briefing from IDF showing that they have also engaged in impersonating medical staff and patients to engage people in a hospital after criticizing Hamas for it… among other instances that are reported. Hell, even US government is starting to show frustration with Israel and their determination to resolve this how they see fit regardless of collateral damage.

They've been doing it, they've been failing at affecting Hamas on a large scale. The Vietcong had ways of preventing this, there is no reason to assume Hamas would not. I'm sure it'll have lasting effects on ground water though.

The Vietcong also had a different environment to contend with, so the same solutions they used might not even be applicable in this scenario. I was thinking more down the lines of Flint, Michigan levels of contamination… where there will be years of contamination, kneecapping an entire generation of civilians, assuming they even have a home or a life by the end of this.

 

[Leandros?]

We’ve been seeing a shift in media coverage and tone over here in the west as this has gone on. Kinda hard for there to not be a change when the talk from Israel was about Hamas personnel infiltrating and posing as doctors and such only for there to be a press briefing from IDF showing that they have also engaged in impersonating medical staff and patients to engage people in a hospital after criticizing Hamas for it… among other instances that are reported. Hell, even US government is starting to show frustration with Israel and their determination to resolve this how they see fit regardless of collateral damage.

This is just a stalling tactic. Biden could end this today if he wanted to, just as Reagan brought Israel to heel in the 80s. As for literal perfidy, well it's become quite clear that just about every atrocity they claim Hamas has done, Hamas has in fact not done and they did this sometime between 1948 and now. See babies in ovens, rapes, the blood libel shit, etc

The Vietcong also had a different environment to contend with, so the same solutions they used might not even be applicable in this scenario. I was thinking more down the lines of Flint, Michigan levels of contamination… where there will be years of contamination, kneecapping an entire generation of civilians, assuming they even have a home or a life by the end of this.

A tunnel is a tunnel and a drain pipe trap is a drain pipe trap and Hamas has had much more machinery to make proper tunnels. As for long-term effects, well it should be quite clear that nobody in the west thinks beyond the next fiscal or election year. If by magic the IDF manages to clear Gaza and Israel bulldozes it all to turn it into shitty condo villages, they'll just throw US money at it to ignore the problem.

 

[Mark]

This is just a stalling tactic. Biden could end this today if he wanted to, just as Reagan brought Israel to heel in the 80s. As for literal perfidy, well it's become quite clear that just about every atrocity they claim Hamas has done, Hamas has in fact not done and they did this sometime between 1948 and now. See babies in ovens, rapes, the blood libel shit, etc

That’s a lot of credibility to give a man who was just more or less referred to as an incompetent old man. It’s an election year, and despite his competition’s numerous issues, he’s still not helping his own case any. Diving head-first into Israel’s ass over how they’re handling things would be career suicide, which is why Blinken keeps getting sent over there to do the talking for him, if I had to guess. To say any president, or world leader has the capability of ending a conflict that has extended as long as this one honestly gives more credibility than deserved. Israel and Hamas could both lay down arms today, and it would only reignite down the line because neither side will let it end.

A tunnel is a tunnel and a drain pipe trap is a drain pipe trap and Hamas has had much more machinery to make proper tunnels. As for long-term effects, well it should be quite clear that nobody in the west thinks beyond the next fiscal or election year. If by magic the IDF manages to clear Gaza and Israel bulldozes it all to turn it into shitty condo villages, they'll just throw US money at it to ignore the problem.

I’m sure a tunnel in an arid environment is going to pose challenges that a tunnel in a jungle environment won’t necessarily have is more in line with what I was going after with that point.

 

[Leandros?]

That’s a lot of credibility to give a man who was just more or less referred to as an incompetent old man. It’s an election year, and despite his competition’s numerous issues, he’s still not helping his own case any. Diving head-first into Israel’s ass over how they’re handling things would be career suicide, which is why Blinken keeps getting sent over there to do the talking for him, if I had to guess. To say any president, or world leader has the capability of ending a conflict that has extended as long as this one honestly gives more credibility than deserved. Israel and Hamas could both lay down arms today, and it would only reignite down the line because neither side will let it end.

Reagon was also not a paragon of cognitive excellence. Whatever the case, Blinken clearly also does not give a shit about Palestinians, and Biden in between bouts of dementia (and before, in congress and as VP) has made his support for Israel clear.

 

[Raine]

[stuff]

You should probably reread that post, because it's definitely not saying whatever you think/thought it is.

The articles referenced are simply amongst the first explicitly not (far) right-wing Google results served as a result of a query made based on things I've remembered seeing. None of the problematic framing therein is lost on me, as outlined in other posts in this incredibly short thread, but good luck snagging an article that avoids that from a traditionally mainstream US-centric organization (which is what's going to show up in said search results). And the likes of Twitter are literally unusable without an account, which, fuck the entirety of that noise but that's a topic for another time.

 

[Leandros?]

You should probably reread that post, because it's definitely not saying whatever you think/thought it is.

The articles referenced are simply amongst the first explicitly not (far) right-wing Google results served as a result of a query made based on things I've remembered seeing. None of the problematic framing therein is lost on me, as outlined in other posts in this incredibly short thread, but good luck snagging an article that avoids that from a traditionally mainstream US-centric organization (which is what's going to show up in said search results). And the likes of Twitter are literally unusable without an account, which, fuck the entirety of that noise but that's a topic for another time.

I may have worded that a bit strangely, but what I'm saying is Bibi does represent the Israeli people quite well, but western media tries to dance around that fact. The neoliberal hollowing out of the Israeli security state is clearly what allowed some giant balls to be dropped, and now that is being put as Bibi's feet, but if they truly wanted him and his policies gone, they would have removed him.

 

[Raine]

I may have worded that a bit strangely, but what I'm saying is Bibi does represent the Israeli people quite well, but western media tries to dance around that fact.

Gotcha. I was very confused because you said it was nonsense but then essentially laid out what it was putting down. With more stuff that I personally don't disagree with.

And yes, he's an elected official. Either through direct support or callous disregard/apathy that will be the case, and doubly so every time an atrocity occurs - and they have been, for a long time - but then the same government figures are reelected. And there was that poll from last year, which I chose not to look up and (re)post because its questions were fairly leading.

Minimally: Netanyahu representing the will of Israel at least as much as Trump represents the will of the US should be a given, and not controversial to say as a surface-level observation.

 

[VashTheStampede]

So if I'm seeing things right, at the same time Israel had a Super Bowl ad running they were bombing the place they told Palestinians would be a safe place?

 

[Fire Queen]

i wonder if genocide joe had anything to say ab--



pre-emptive edit: yes i know that he is referencing the conspiracy theory about the super bowl being rigged here, i just still think it's morally bankrupt to post a meme like this in the wake of what's happening in rafah, especially given how much leverage joe has over what israel does

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

So if I'm seeing things right, at the same time Israel had a Super Bowl ad running they were bombing the place they told Palestinians would be a safe place?

Plus or minus a few minutes.

 

[Leandros?]

So if I'm seeing things right, at the same time Israel had a Super Bowl ad running they were bombing the place they told Palestinians would be a safe place?

The reverse of announcing the bombings in Yemen (and Iraq back in the day) and having them coincide with evening news, yes.

 

[Smacktard]

pre-emptive edit: yes i know that he is referencing the conspiracy theory about the super bowl being rigged here, i just still think it's morally bankrupt to post a meme like this in the wake of what's happening in rafah, especially given how much leverage joe has over what israel does

I mean, I feel like this is a pretty weird pretty test to impose for presidents. If they were forbidden from speaking while atrocities were being committed elsewhere in the world, it would've been a pretty silent occupation from inception. There's a genocide going on right now in Sudan and Ethiopia.

 

[Fire Queen]

I mean, I feel like this is a pretty weird pretty test to impose for presidents. If they were forbidden from speaking while atrocities were being committed elsewhere in the world, it would've been a pretty silent occupation from inception. There's a genocide going on right now in Sudan and Ethiopia.

i mean, yes, you're right. there are terrible things happening in those places. but there's specific context given that we're talking about biden. for months he and his vice president have been getting hounded by protesters specifically calling for a ceasefire in this specific conflict because of biden and america's material, tangible support for the state of israel. the test isn't "he can't speak out during any genocide happening anywhere", it's "why the fuck is he memeing. does he not have anything better to do. is bibi not answering his calls anymore. how tone deaf is he."

 

[Raine]

Why is (an intern/representative for) Biden memeing anyway. Dude's fuckin' 80 years old and been in political office longer than the presumptive target audience has been alive. The Dark Brandon shit in general is cringe-worthy.

On top of which, why are they humoring conspiracy theorists in the year 2024 in any capacity?

You know what, full old ass hot take: No official accounts for governments or sitting officials should be partaking of The Memes, period. Israel can still pound sand for the edgelord that runs theirs.

---

In other news...

Article:

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli forces stormed the main hospital in southern Gaza on Thursday, hours after Israeli fire killed a patient and wounded six others inside the complex. The Israeli army said it was a limited operation seeking the remains of hostages taken by Hamas.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-02-15-2024-d3a25caf6b60fe560e1a31d4f8f6b45e

Indefensible evil.

And their excuses are more and more flimsy every fucking day, somehow.

 

[Raine]

Made the mistake of swiping right this morning, was greeted with this:

Article:

WHO says Gaza's Nasser hospital not functional after Israel raids

The World Health Organization has said Gaza's Nasser hospital has ceased to function following an Israeli raid.

Israel Defense Force (IDF) troops entered the complex on Thursday, saying intelligence indicated hostages taken by Hamas were being held there.

The WHO said it had not been allowed to enter the site to assess the situation.

The IDF has described its operation in Nasser as "precise and limited" and accused Hamas of "cynically using hospitals for terror".

Nasser hospital in #Gaza is not functional anymore, after a weeklong siege followed by the ongoing raid.

Both yesterday and the day before, the @WHO team was not permitted to enter the hospital to assess the conditions of the patients and critical medical needs, despite reaching the hospital compound to deliver fuel alongside partners.

There are still about 200 patients in the hospital. At least 20 need to be urgently referred to other hospitals to receive health care; medical referral is every patient’s right.

The cost of delays will be paid by patients’ lives.

Access to the patients and hospital should be facilitated.

The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says only four medical staff were left in the hospital trying to care for the remaining patients.

One source inside the hospital, who did not want to be named, told BBC News that 11 patients had died due to interruptions in the supply of electricity and oxygen, and that several doctors had been arrested.

Yesterday, the Israeli military said its troops had been told to keep the hospital running and that food and water had been delivered. Asked about the state of the hospital this morning, an army spokesman said only that they were checking.

Fighting has raged around the Nasser site for weeks. Israel has repeatedly claimed Hamas is using hospitals, along with schools, as operational bases.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68330579

 

[Mark]

Why is (an intern/representative for) Biden memeing anyway. Dude's fuckin' 80 years old and been in political office longer than the presumptive target audience has been alive. The Dark Brandon shit in general is cringe-worthy.

Because if you take something like that and own the “joke” then the common person won’t even bother to question the validity of it.

On top of which, why are they humoring conspiracy theorists in the year 2024 in any capacity?

Is it humoring them, or a tongue in cheek way of telling them that no one’s going to believe anything they say? We’ve seen conspiracies turn out to be true, but we’ve also seen a fuckton turn into memes because of how far-fetched they are. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.

You know what, full old ass hot take: No official accounts for governments or sitting officials should be partaking of The Memes, period. Israel can still pound sand for the edgelord that runs theirs.

Agreed. Unless, it was a level playing field. Let’s deep dive our politicians the same way our employers or banks or government would deep dive us.

---

In other news...

Article:

RAFAH, Gaza Strip (AP) — Israeli forces stormed the main hospital in southern Gaza on Thursday, hours after Israeli fire killed a patient and wounded six others inside the complex. The Israeli army said it was a limited operation seeking the remains of hostages taken by Hamas.

Source: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-news-02-15-2024-d3a25caf6b60fe560e1a31d4f8f6b45e

Indefensible evil.

And their excuses are more and more flimsy every fucking day, somehow.

That’s simple… they don’t need to provide excuses anymore. They’re IN there already, they have free roam of the place.

Made the mistake of swiping right this morning, was greeted with this:

Article:

WHO says Gaza's Nasser hospital not functional after Israel raids

The World Health Organization has said Gaza's Nasser hospital has ceased to function following an Israeli raid.

Israel Defense Force (IDF) troops entered the complex on Thursday, saying intelligence indicated hostages taken by Hamas were being held there.

The WHO said it had not been allowed to enter the site to assess the situation.

The IDF has described its operation in Nasser as "precise and limited" and accused Hamas of "cynically using hospitals for terror".




The Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza says only four medical staff were left in the hospital trying to care for the remaining patients.

One source inside the hospital, who did not want to be named, told BBC News that 11 patients had died due to interruptions in the supply of electricity and oxygen, and that several doctors had been arrested.

Yesterday, the Israeli military said its troops had been told to keep the hospital running and that food and water had been delivered. Asked about the state of the hospital this morning, an army spokesman said only that they were checking.

Fighting has raged around the Nasser site for weeks. Israel has repeatedly claimed Hamas is using hospitals, along with schools, as operational bases.

Source: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-68330579

I’m really curious how Biden’s 3rd warning is going to go… is he gonna move him to a yellow light until he behaves? Put a sad face next to his name?

 

[Raine]

Because if you take something like that and own the “joke” then the common person won’t even bother to question the validity of it.

Mm, maybe. Specifically with the Superbowl thing it's a subject that's, by nature, going to spread - they've intentionally crossed streams there, bad sportsmanship and hawkish team mentality meets political grievance and the conspiracy theory pipeline. This is the exact avenue QAnon took when they began co-opting the protecting children and human trafficking narrative.

But Dark Brandon itself is already the counter to Let's Go Brandon, and that was Liberals/Never-Trumpers pushing back against the MAGA dumbasses. It doesn't need further input from the Biden Administration, in my opinion. Especially not right then.

Is it humoring them, or a tongue in cheek way of telling them that no one’s going to believe anything they say? We’ve seen conspiracies turn out to be true, but we’ve also seen a fuckton turn into memes because of how far-fetched they are. It’s like the boy who cried wolf.

People at my jobsite were having an actual, legitimate conversation about how "it's probably true" that the game was rigged. This is... incredibly dangerous. I've - we've - seen this play out before. It's only February. I might need to find some heavy duty bear sedatives or something to get me through the year at this rate.

Broaching the subject in any capacity will 1) further solidify the beliefs of the idiots, 2) bring more eyes to something that might otherwise quickly flame out and 3) send mixed messages. I really don't think it's a good idea. America still hasn't finished dealing with Jan6!

I’m really curious how Biden’s 3rd warning is going to go… is he gonna move him to a yellow light until he behaves? Put a sad face next to his name?

Well he's sure as fuck not going to stop giving them weapons and ammunition, so it's effectively the Susan Collins strategy regardless.

 

[Leandros?]

That’s simple… they don’t need to provide excuses anymore. They’re IN there already, they have free roam of the place.

Nah they've had the media and western politicians not giving a shit for decades so any excuses they thought up were dogshit transparent bullshit but still accepted. This is the first conflict in which they are being called on it and it shows.

 

[Mark]

Nah they've had the media and western politicians not giving a shit for decades so any excuses they thought up were dogshit transparent bullshit but still accepted. This is the first conflict in which they are being called on it and it shows.

That gives the implication that at the end of the day, Israel as a governing body cares what the US thinks. The media I’ve seen (both liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning sources) seem to be intersecting with the storyline coming out of the region where “Israel is doing what’s best for Israel”, regardless of how it affects Palestinian people or how the rest of the world reacts. I meant what I said in a more literal sense, since they already have boots on the ground… they’re not concerned with providing reasons the way they were in prior instances when there were, for example, instances of Hamas activity prior to this. They already knocked the gloves off, so what happens now is of little consequence to them since “Hamas asked for it” by throwing the first blow in this exchange.

 

[Leandros?]

That gives the implication that at the end of the day, Israel as a governing body cares what the US thinks. The media I’ve seen (both liberal-leaning and conservative-leaning sources) seem to be intersecting with the storyline coming out of the region where “Israel is doing what’s best for Israel”, regardless of how it affects Palestinian people or how the rest of the world reacts. I meant what I said in a more literal sense, since they already have boots on the ground… they’re not concerned with providing reasons the way they were in prior instances when there were, for example, instances of Hamas activity prior to this. They already knocked the gloves off, so what happens now is of little consequence to them since “Hamas asked for it” by throwing the first blow in this exchange.

Of course Israel cares, they need billions in US tax money to be economically viable and to prosecute this war. Otherwise why would they bring out all these ridiculous English languages videos of supposed headquarters underneath hospitals? Biden is a psychotic whose support is generally unwavering but even he wants to be re-elected, and I think the white house signaling a desire to end the conflict quickly is partly because he wants to keep it away from voter attention as November draws closer.

PR has always been a component of Israeli self defense, because they cannot exist independently and are constantly doing horrendous shit to the people they're oppressing.

 

[Raine]

That gives the implication that at the end of the day, Israel as a governing body cares what the US thinks.

Less so now, perhaps, but that's definitely been a big component for why we're at where we're at now. The fact that nobody bats an eye at AIPAC:

AIPAC - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

...Or gets smeared as an antisemite for pointing out how fucking wrong and bizarre and decidedly un-American (from a traditionally conservative viewpoint, granted) having something like that is? That's just money well spent.

Israel wouldn't be where it is now without the US. The IDF literally sniping innocents for years wouldn't have been a thing. Journalists and reporters, medics, hospital staff - Israel has maimed and killed them all with the US's express blessing and backing at this point.

 

[Mark]

Of course Israel cares, they need billions in US tax money to be economically viable and to prosecute this war. Otherwise why would they bring out all these ridiculous English languages videos of supposed headquarters underneath hospitals? Biden is a psychotic whose support is generally unwavering but even he wants to be re-elected, and I think the white house signaling a desire to end the conflict quickly is partly because he wants to keep it away from voter attention as November draws closer.

Although they might need the money, or want the money, the point is that their conflicts precede the US. Sure, it’s nice to have the extra funds and moral support, but at the end of the day? They’re still gonna have beef with whoever they choose to, no different than any other culture with their prejudices. Biden might support Israel, but he has been short on support for the bulk of his time in office, so if anything… this serves to feed the war-hungry.

PR has always been a component of Israeli self defense, because they cannot exist independently and are constantly doing horrendous shit to the people they're oppressing.

Absolutely, and the tactic doesn’t end with Israel. We can easily say the same about other countries as well, the US included. There’s a reason why we often hear of global politics referred to in the setting of “the world stage”, because they’re putting on a show with the worker ants. I won’t sit here and conspire, but “they” are everyone from politicians to corporations to religions and social movements. We live in a sick world, human life is just a commodity to a lot of people out there.

...Or gets smeared as an antisemite for pointing out how fucking wrong and bizarre and decidedly un-American (from a traditionally conservative viewpoint, granted) having something like that is? That's just money well spent.

Israel wouldn't be where it is now without the US. The IDF literally sniping innocents for years wouldn't have been a thing. Journalists and reporters, medics, hospital staff - Israel has maimed and killed them all with the US's express blessing and backing at this point.

Yeah, Baltimore has a large Jewish population, and I’ve seen firsthand how that claim plays out. It’s hard to explain… but I can liken it to the racism you see between Africans, African Americans, black people, and biracial people… or white people with different zip codes…

I worked for a family of Israeli Jews before, and they liked to throw out the antisemite word anytime they faced any opposition, and the thing was… they deserved the opposition. They were terrible to people. Looked down on anyone that wasn’t in their family, and treated each other like garbage. Granted, I know that doesn’t speak for an entire people by any means… but getting that kind of insight into how bad one family can turn following hate in that upbringing concerned me just as much as a bunch of racist rednecks or the next gang in Baltimore’s shittiest corner.

 

[Leandros?]

Although they might need the money, or want the money, the point is that their conflicts precede the US. Sure, it’s nice to have the extra funds and moral support, but at the end of the day? They’re still gonna have beef with whoever they choose to, no different than any other culture with their prejudices. Biden might support Israel, but he has been short on support for the bulk of his time in office, so if anything… this serves to feed the war-hungry.

This conflict does not predate the US, that's a rationalisation like "this conflict is very complex" for ignoring it. For the most part of history, jewish communities in Europe faced much more persecution than in Islamic countries, including the Ottoman empire which held current day Israel for hundreds of years. Zionism in earnest began at the end of the 19th century and ramped up when the Brits held the area. It's not some perpetual blood feud, it's an unfolding ethnic cleansing that has lasted some 80 years. They need material support from the west for that and will alter their behaviour as they see necessary. Because Biden has at most telegraphed in the weakest possible way that he is not looking for a maximum amount of bloodshed, all the while supplying endless amounts of weapons, the Israeli government and everyone participating in the theft of West Bank land and destruction of Gaza feel very free in their reign of terror. Almost all surrounding Arab states are bought and paid for (even though they are utterly collapsing as societies) so the only things they need to look out for is functioning trade (Houthis are fucking them on that), support from the west and defense against unfriendly countries (Iran is the major driver but Syria and Egypt were pretty big in the past, they have their own shit to deal with now).

Yeah, Baltimore has a large Jewish population, and I’ve seen firsthand how that claim plays out. It’s hard to explain… but I can liken it to the racism you see between Africans, African Americans, black people, and biracial people… or white people with different zip codes…

I worked for a family of Israeli Jews before, and they liked to throw out the antisemite word anytime they faced any opposition, and the thing was… they deserved the opposition. They were terrible to people. Looked down on anyone that wasn’t in their family, and treated each other like garbage. Granted, I know that doesn’t speak for an entire people by any means… but getting that kind of insight into how bad one family can turn following hate in that upbringing concerned me just as much as a bunch of racist rednecks or the next gang in Baltimore’s shittiest corner.

Israeli society is incredibly racist and has ramped up its ethnonationalist ideology in recent decades, to the point that it has been explicitly proclaimed that Israel is for the white man. There have been stories of foreign workers requiring a stipulation in their work visa that they not procreate with Jewish women, and of Israeli doctors sterilising Ethiopian Jews without informing their patients, much less getting consent. For generations, they've been coddled by the west, had money thrown at them and been told everyone else is trying to kill them and there are barbarians everywhere, and are seen by the world's 2 major religions as a special tribe chosen by god. It's not a great formula for a person, much less a national psyche.

 

[Webster]

Blaming Likud/Bibi is purely a western fantasy to distract from the fact that Israel has had 80 years of ethnonationalism baked into people's minds.

Yeah, after about 3400 years of people trying to kill the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews, from the Middle East to North America and beyond.

 

[Leandros?]

Funny how similarly persecuted peoples as well as Jews not subscribing to Zionism don't behave the same way.

 

[Mark]

Yeah, after about 3400 years of people trying to kill the Israelites/Hebrews/Jews, from the Middle East to North America and beyond.

I’ll be honest, I’ve always wondered why they specifically had such a hard time everywhere, but it’s not exactly something that’s easy to research without getting blasted with propaganda. You learn about various events in history class growing up, and then independently as time goes on, but the overall “but WHY?” question has never really answered for me.

Edit - To clarify, I’ve had this conversation with Jewish friends, I’ve had this conversation with antisemitics, and I’ve had this conversation with indifferent people and wound up with the same conclusion… perspective based beliefs that inevitably lead back to religious beliefs, perceived superiority, land-grabs, persecution, and genocide. Yet, no definitive explanation as to why they’ve had the history they’ve had. I guess you could say the same about a racist person, for example, but they could have been victimized by the race they’re prejudice against worst case scenario or indoctrinated by their upbringing in the best case scenario. So, that would offer some kind of perspective as to why an individual would treat someone a certain way. To have collective populations of different races and religions at different points in history in different parts of the world react the same way to one population just makes me wonder why that is.

 

[Zell 17]

Funny how similarly persecuted peoples as well as Jews not subscribing to Zionism don't behave the same way.

There are no similarly persecuted peoples.

The fact that you think that "Israel is for the white man" is hilarious, and shows that you have never been there. Here is a fun fact: Only 30% of Israeli Jews can trace lineage back to ANY European country. Are Palestinians white? Because genetically they are indistinguishable from the vast majority of Israeli Jews.

 

[Zell 17]

I’ll be honest, I’ve always wondered why they specifically had such a hard time everywhere, but it’s not exactly something that’s easy to research without getting blasted with propaganda. You learn about various events in history class growing up, and then independently as time goes on, but the overall “but WHY?” question has never really answered for me.

Edit - To clarify, I’ve had this conversation with Jewish friends, I’ve had this conversation with antisemitics, and I’ve had this conversation with indifferent people and wound up with the same conclusion… perspective based beliefs that inevitably lead back to religious beliefs, perceived superiority, land-grabs, persecution, and genocide. Yet, no definitive explanation as to why they’ve had the history they’ve had. I guess you could say the same about a racist person, for example, but they could have been victimized by the race they’re prejudice against worst case scenario or indoctrinated by their upbringing in the best case scenario. So, that would offer some kind of perspective as to why an individual would treat someone a certain way. To have collective populations of different races and religions at different points in history in different parts of the world react the same way to one population just makes me wonder why that is.

The Jews aren't special really, all of the major religions fought the crap out of each other. The major difference is that Jews don't actively recruit or convert people, so they were always the smallest and easiest to kick around. They chose to be the freckled kid with glasses in the corner and just got the shit beat out of them everywhere they went.

 

[Mark]

The Jews aren't special really, all of the major religions fought the crap out of each other. The major difference is that Jews don't actively recruit or convert people, so they were always the smallest and easiest to kick around. They chose to be the freckled kid with glasses in the corner and just got the shit beat out of them everywhere they went.

Right, that’s really all I ever saw growing up. Sure, I saw stereotypical situations, like a Jewish landlord that went cheap on repairs. You know who else goes cheap on repairs? Landlords in general. Being frugal isn’t exclusive to Jewish people, even if the stereotype is rooted in the common teaching of fiscal responsibility within the community. I just draw a blank when I get to the part where the Jewish people got to a point where Hitler decided that was what should be done… or locally, why the black community here has so much of an issue with the Jewish community… or globally, where we see what’s unfolding now.

I’ve known plenty of cool Jews, quite a few shitheads, and quite a few snakes. No different than any other group of people. So, yeah, I guess that phrases where I’m coming from better… what makes them so special and deserving of so many different people’s hate? Is it REALLY just from ancient text? Did those beliefs forge a manifest destiny type situation? I dunno, but, I’m way too stoned to be asking questions about Jews on the internet on a Sunday night. What motivates people to hate other people has always intrigued me, though, because I’ve seen people hate for silly reasons, valid reasons, and no reason at all… and it just seems like such a waste of energy.

 

[Leandros?]

There are no similarly persecuted peoples.

Armenians and Kurds would like a word, and those are just within the former ottoman empire.

The fact that you think that "Israel is for the white man" is hilarious, and shows that you have never been there.

Here's me and a friend being very sad at your wrongness in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre in the center of Jerusalem:

Sudanese face expulsion; minister declares Israel "belongs to white man"

Israel has begun arresting South Sudanese migrants in preparation for deporting them from the country.

electronicintifada.net

Here is a fun fact: Only 30% of Israeli Jews can trace lineage back to ANY European country. Are Palestinians white? Because genetically they are indistinguishable from the vast majority of Israeli Jews.

I never said their racism wasn't contradictory

 

[Zell 17]

Sudanese face expulsion; minister declares Israel "belongs to white man"

Israel has begun arresting South Sudanese migrants in preparation for deporting them from the country.

electronicintifada.net

The minister did not say that Israel belongs to the white man. Here is his exact quote:

"רוב האנשים שבאים הנה הם מוסלמים שחושבים שהארץ בכלל לא שייכת לנו, לאדם הלבן. כמה מהם דיברו על כך בגלוי בטלוויזיה. אני הולך להמשיך את המאבק שלי עד סוף הקדנציה, בלי פשרות. אפעיל את כל הכלים לגירוש זרים. שלא יהיה כאן אף מסתנן"

He said that the Muslims who came were declaring "This country does not belong to the white man".

 

[Leandros?]

Well googled, now read how the rest of the interview is full of him describing africans and others as infiltrators, murderers, rapists and spreaders of AIDS which he will expel by all means necessary. Really dispell the myth that he's the type of person to say that and would agree with the quote he probably made up.

 

[Zell 17]

Well googled, now read how the rest of the interview is full of him describing africans and others as infiltrators, murderers, rapists and spreaders of AIDS which he will expel by all means necessary. Really dispell the myth that he's the type of person to say that and would agree with the quote he probably made up.

The dude is African. I find it hard to believe Africans are hard at work building the white man’s utopia.

There’s a lot of fucked up shit going on in Israel but this is not a Black-White race issue like we see in the United States. It just isn’t.

 

[Leandros?]

I find it hard to believe Africans are hard at work building the white man’s utopia.

lol