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"Hey, listen!"Gonna just make and run my own Zelda-themed wolf clone with all the least toxic roles ever
We found the seer role."Hey, listen!"
The ones Zell run came from a game that's played online quite a bit and was the result of years of playing and adding more intrigue.Question for people who have run these wolf games: How did the evolution of the choice of roles come about? Are there versions of wolf that people have put together as being particularly "good" or is this basically built from scratch
@Zell 17 this seems like a cross between beast hunter and avenger right? They don't actually protect themselves but they don't choose who to kill, it's just someone who was allied with the attacker? That could be a fun role. Wolves try to trick the town into killing them while also trying to avoid them.Scratch that. Anyone attacks the cucco and they go rampage mode and kill a random player on the team of the person (or people) who attacked.
dude, you go from saying you don't got time for things only to drop this bombshell of an idea. Please continue not having time for wolf stuff. This is fuckin awesome.I thought I'd do a lol and bust out some funny roles, but it actually turned into an entire thing...
Suggestions;
Villager Team
- Link (Hunter): Can eliminate a player at any time, night or day, once per game.
- Zelda (Doctor): Protects one player each night from elimination by any source.
- Impa (Seer): Identifies alignment to tell if a player is on the side of good or evil each night.
- Navi (Messenger): Can send secret messages to any one player each night. Knows who Epona is from the start.
- Sheik (Harlot): Visits players at night with varying outcomes; If a villain, Sheik survives any attacks against them that night. If a target, Sheik dies too.
- Cucco (Avenger): If eliminated by any means a random member of the murdering party will also die.
- Great Fairy (Guardian Angel): Each night, can grant a player a one-time use protection to use during a following night phase.
- Epona (Messenger's Assistant): While Epona is alive, Navi can talk to two players per night. Epona does not know Navi's identity.
- Tetra (Bodyguard): Chooses a player to guard each night, protecting them from elimination.
- The Deku Tree (Elder): Survives the first attack or elimination vote against them, but their role is revealed to the village.
- Saria (Spirit Medium): Communicates with eliminated players/bored spirits.
- Deku Tree Sprout (Oracle): Can reveal once if a specific role is still in the game. Can be used night or day.
- Tingle (Fool): Wholly believes they are Impa. Receives incorrect or misleading information each night.
- Mido (Villager): A regular villager with no special abilities.
Villain Team
- Ganondorf (Werewolf): Can vote. Has overruling vote on which player to eliminate each night.
- Dark Link (Alpha Werewolf): Can vote. Survives the first attempt against their life.
- ReDead (Silencer): Cannot vote. Each night, silences a player for 18 hours during the next day phase.
- Ghirahim (Sorcerer): Can vote. Seeks the Seer. Each night tries to identify Impa. If they guess correctly, Impa is eliminated.
- Twinrova (Witch): Can vote. Has one-time abilities to save and eliminate a player.
Misc Team
- Groose (Jester): Aims to get himself eliminated by any means after night 2. Must survive until then. Game doesn't end.
- Skull Kid (Trickster): Swaps the roles of two players once in the game. Wins if both those players are eliminated by any means. Game doesn't end.
- Vaati (Minion): Knows who the villains are, but has no special abilities and is not part of the villain chat. Wins if they're among the last villagers alive when the wolves outnumber them. Game would naturally end.
The true secret is that my time to do this and my time to do adult work overlap... Don't tell my boss.dude, you go from saying you don't got time for things only to drop this bombshell of an idea. Please continue not having time for wolf stuff. This is fuckin awesome.
I was thinking about this a few minutes prior, so since you said it too, yes. I did that.Should talk of another game be tossed into post your game ideas instead of Zell's sign up thread?
I had a very similar notion when we were recently spinning up ideas for this last meta game and had been rolling it over in my head the last several days trying to figure out how to make it workI think it was... Last night or the other night. I was laying in bed trying to fall asleep, but I kept thinking about more fun yet different wolf game iterations.
One I really liked the idea of was one that is different from all the other wolf and mafia games. I would make many, many different roles for all sides and at least starting off no one would know what any of the roles did apart from their own. Everyone would be banned from copy/pasting anything about their role, but they're free to use their own words to describe what they do. All of their role related questions would have to go through PMs too. I'm 110% sure none of it would be balanced, but at least a couple of the random roles I spit balled with me and myself were neat and interesting.
You wouldn't even know how many of any role type there are. Are there strong and normal roles? Is there only one evil faction? How many of them are there? Are solo roles a thing?
I was considering adding some meta game related roles too to get things going and build up on stuff for the long haul. But then I also realized I'd probably have the attention span for hosting at best 1 game before getting distracted or starting to find it a chore to run. :/ Bleh.
I can easily be an idea guy. Not an actionable guy. Leave that for someone else.I had a very similar notion when we were recently spinning up ideas for this last meta game and had been rolling it over in my head the last several days trying to figure out how to make it work
I'm way happier letting someone else do the work
I do like that idea. For the sake of "balance", everything does have to have some % chance to fail, with some being higher than others. That would definitely make games last longer as the evil roles also wiff their kills lol. Maybe days and nights would have to get adjusted to be shorter. I don't know.In the realm of rule variants I always thought it would be interesting if their was a pass/fail chance on all role abilities.
So like let's say a seer has a 25% fail chance, then 1/4 of their reads give the wrong info.
And a 5 or 10% chance the gun misfires, exploding in their hand and they can never shoot againI still like the idea. Could give the gunner a six shooter. Can shoot twice a day, but with a 33% chance of succeeding
Also brain aneurysms are a .001% chance for everyone every time they postAnd with that each passing day there is an increasing chance of gangrene setting in, and by the 4th day they die
Not ant themed, but I did try to generate a Pokemon themed version earlier this afternoon. Would need tweaking, but seemed kinda interesting.@Ants! should make an insect themed version of wolf.
### Legendary Pokémon Roles:
#### **Team Rocket Agents (Villains):**
These legendary Pokémon have been corrupted by Team Rocket and seek to dominate the village.
1. **Darkrai** (Nightmare Inducer): Each night, Darkrai can choose one player to put into a nightmare, preventing them from using their role that night.
2. **Yveltal** (Destruction Bringer): Yveltal can eliminate one player every two nights, in addition to the Team Rocket's standard elimination. They are powerful but limited in usage.
3. **Hoopa Unbound** (Portal Manipulator): Hoopa can swap two players at night, causing all actions targeting one player to affect the other. They can use this once per game to confuse the villagers.
#### **Villager Pokémon (Town):**
The villagers are innocent legendary Pokémon trying to stop the corrupted ones from taking over.
1. **Celebi** (Time Traveler/Reviver): Once per game, Celebi can travel through time to revive one player who was eliminated during a previous night phase.
2. **Lugia** (Protector of the Seas): Lugia can protect one player each night from being eliminated, but they cannot protect the same player two nights in a row.
3. **Latios** (Seer): Latios can use their telepathic powers to investigate one player each night and learn whether they are Team Rocket or not.
4. **Latias** (Tracker): Latias can follow one player each night and discover who that player visited or interacted with during the night.
5. **Regigigas** (Delayed Avenger): If Regigigas is eliminated (either by vote or attack), they take one other player down with them after one day, as they take time to gather their strength.
6. **Moltres** (Vigilante): Moltres can unleash a fire attack once during the game to eliminate a player of their choice.
7. **Zapdos** (Storm Caller): Once during the game, Zapdos can prevent any player from using their abilities during a single night phase.
8. **Mew** (Role Mimic): Mew can choose to copy the role of a player that has been eliminated and use that role's power for one night.
9. **Shaymin** (Gratitude Healer): Shaymin can heal a player each night, preventing them from being eliminated, but cannot heal the same player more than twice in the game.
#### **Neutral Pokémon (Third Party Roles):**
These legendary Pokémon have their own objectives that are independent of the town or Team Rocket agents.
1. **Mewtwo** (Serial Killer): Mewtwo's goal is to be the last one standing. They can eliminate one player each night and appear innocent if investigated by Latios.
2. **Zygarde** (Neutral Observer): Zygarde wins by surviving until the end of the game. They are not concerned with who wins or loses, as long as they are still alive.
3. **Jirachi** (Wisher): Jirachi can make three wishes during the game. These wishes can be used to do things like prevent a vote, heal a player, or stop an elimination. However, once their three wishes are used, they have no other abilities.
4. **Deoxys** (Shapeshifter): Deoxys can switch between one of their four forms each night, each granting them a different ability:
- **Attack Form**: Can eliminate a player.
- **Defense Form**: Can protect themselves from any attack that night.
- **Speed Form**: Can move faster, allowing them to see who a player visits.
- **Normal Form**: Appears as innocent to any investigations.
#### **Unique Legendary Roles:**
These special legendary Pokémon have abilities that stand out and add unique dynamics to the game.
1. **Arceus** (Judge): Once during the game, Arceus can stop all votes during the day and eliminate one player by divine judgment. They are impartial, and their goal is to maintain balance.
2. **Solgaleo** (Sun Guardian): Solgaleo can choose one player each night to protect, but if Solgaleo is eliminated, the next day's vote must be skipped as a day of mourning.
3. **Lunala** (Moon Veil): Lunala can cloak a player in darkness, making them untargetable by any night actions for one night.
4. **Kyogre** (Rain Summoner): Kyogre can flood the village once per game, preventing any eliminations during a single night and day phase.
---
### Win Conditions:
- **Team Rocket Agents** win if they outnumber the villagers.
- **Villagers** win if they eliminate all Team Rocket agents.
- **Neutral Pokémon** have their own unique win conditions, such as survival or fulfilling specific tasks.
Needs more original 151 because I don’t recognize most of those namesNot ant themed, but I did try to generate a Pokemon themed version earlier this afternoon. Would need tweaking, but seemed kinda interesting.
Investigation
Communication
- Seer - Investigation - Basic Good/Evil Alignment Check every night.
- Psychic - Investigation - Can check the ratio of good to evil currently in village.
- Senior Detective - Investigation - Can compare players and see if at least 1 is guilty of having killed during the night.
- Junior Detective - Investigation - Knows who the detective is from the start, and takes over their role if the Detective dies.
- Peeper- Investigation - Learns if their observed target was visited by anyone at night.
- Tracker - Investigation - Follows one player at night, learning if they visit anyone.
- Dreamer - Investigation - Dreams of one random role present in the game each night, either good or evil.
- Oracle - Investigation - Can ask game master one yes/no question per game.
- Messenger - Communication - Can send one anonymous message each night to a specified villager.
- Postal Worker - Communication - Knows who the messenger is. If the postal worker dies, the messenger cannot deliver anymore messages at night.
Protection
- Doctor - Protection - Heal someone physically attacked/poisoned at night
- Knight - Protection - If attacked, the attacker dies.
- Martyr - Protection - Can choose to die in place of someone at night.
- Amulet of Protection - Protection - Passed around town. Will prevent the player holding it from dying. Must be passed on before sunset the next day or the amulets magic fades.
- Shepherd - Protection - Can lead everyone out of town for 1 night, preventing any deaths at all.
- Blacksmith - Protection - Can protect another player, but both their attacker and they will die as a result.
- Pacifist - Protection - Can prevent a daytime lynch one time.
- Priest - Protection - Heal someone magically cursed/poisoned. Can remove curse from cursed villager.
- Saint - Protection - Can raise 1 person from the dead as the role they were prior to death.
Kill Roles
Mixed
- Hunter - Elimination - Can kill a player at any time. If they kill a villager they will be killed. If they kill an evil role, they are free to kill another player the next day/night.
- Assassin - Elimination - Can kill 1 player during the day, with no announcement of why they died.
- Veteran - Elimination - Can go on 'high-alert' overnight, 2 times per game. If visited by anyone overnight, the visitor will die.
- Exorcist - Elimination - Can attempt to exercise the evil from a villager once.
- Vengeful Spirit - Elimination - If lynched during the day, the vengeful spirit can kill one player who voted against them that night.
- Monster Hunter - Elimination - Once per game, can kill someone regardless of protections.
- Paladin - Elimination - Hunts the Necromancer. Can cleanse one dead player each night, purging the Necromancer's influence if they've been turned. Once the Paladin has purged 2 dead players successfully, they can smite a player they think is the Necromancer during the day.
Other
- Jailer - Mixed - Can detain a player at night, protecting them from action and preventing them from preforming any. Jailer can kill detained player but only once per game.
- Witch - Mixed - Has two potions, one that protects and one that kills.
- Arms Dealer - Mixed - Can give 1 player a gun. If they do and it's used to kill a villager, they can from then on only win with the evil team by being one of the last town members alive when outnumbered by wolves. If they do not hand out a gun, or the gun they hand out are only ever used against evil, they can win with the town.
Werewolves
- Cursed - Other - One villager is cursed and on their death will rise as a werewolf. Does not know they are cursed until death. Can be cured by magical healing.
- Alpha - Werewolf - Can attempt to scratch one player during the day. If that player is the cursed villager, they will convert to become a werewolf that night.
- Werewolf - Werewolf - Regular evil, votes at night on kills.
- Bloodhound - Werewolf - Can detect someone's role once per night.
- Skinwalker - Werewolf - Can mimic a dead player's role/alignment to fool reads. Cannot copy the same dead person two nights in a row.
- Loup Garou - Werewolf - Can protect one other player from death at night.
- Bisclavret - Werewolf - Takes 2 attempts to kill, unless by lynching.
- Beast of Gévaudan - Werewolf - One time, can berserk and kill regardless of protection roles in play.
- Howler - Werewolf - Can send 1 anonymous message every 2 nights.
- Wendigo - Werewolf - Abducts 1 player for a night, preventing their actions/death.
Evil
- Necromancer - Evil - Once there are 3 or more dead players, can turn 1 player into an undead minion who gets put in a special chat. Once the necromancer has 3 undead minions, they can collectively vote to either prevent a player acting at night, or to collectively add/subtract 1 from a days vote. Necromancer wins when their undead minions total half the remaining players.
- Juggernaut - Evil - First night does nothing, second night gets an alignment read, third night gets to kill 1 person, fourth night gets to kill 2 people, etc.
- Arsonist - Evil - Can either douse or ignite everyone doused so far.
- Serial Killer - Evil - Can kill once per night. Doesn't get to stack kills, it's used or not.
- Mad bomber - Evil - Does nothing for the first 4 nights, but on night 4 can activate a bomb to kill 1d10 random players.
- Poisoner - Evil - Can poison a player, who will die the following night unless healed.
- Arch-Rival - Evil - Must get one specific player chosen at the start of the game lynched.
- Warlock - Evil - Hunts the witch. Can kill someone every other night. Takes the witch's potion powers if successful.
- Cult Leader - Evil - Can induct 1 person each night into their cult. Wins if the cult comprises 1/2 of the town.
because the intent is to give the dead thread something to do while... dead
In a game of Werewolf (also known as Mafia), a **kingmaker** situation arises when a player who cannot win themselves holds the power to decide which faction—villagers or werewolves—wins the game. This scenario can detract from the game's competitive integrity because it shifts the outcome from being a result of collective strategy and deduction to the whim of a single player. In forum-based games, where interactions are asynchronous and extended over days, preventing such situations requires careful planning.
Here are strategies to avoid creating a kingmaker scenario at the game's end:
1. **Balance the Number of Players and Roles:**
- **Even Player Count:** Ensure the game starts with an odd number of players to prevent tie votes, which can lead to stalemates or kingmaker situations.
- **Role Distribution:** Carefully assign roles to maintain balance. Too many special roles can complicate endgame scenarios, increasing the risk of a kingmaker situation.
2. **Clear Victory Conditions:**
- **Explicit Rules:** Define unambiguous victory conditions for each faction. For instance, specify that the game ends immediately when the werewolves have an equal number of players as the villagers.
- **Endgame Triggers:** Set conditions where the game concludes before a kingmaker scenario can occur, such as ending the game when only a set number of players remain.
3. **Modify Voting Mechanics:**
- **No Last-Minute Votes:** Implement deadlines for vote changes to prevent sudden shifts influenced by potential kingmakers.
- **Majority vs. Plurality:** Use majority voting instead of plurality to ensure a clear decision, reducing the chance of a tie that could empower a kingmaker.
4. **Restrict Eliminated Players:**
- **Silence After Death:** Prohibit dead players from posting in the game thread or communicating with alive players to prevent them from influencing the outcome.
- **No Post-Mortem Abilities:** Avoid roles that allow players to affect the game after elimination, such as ghosts or mediums.
5. **Implement Tie-Breaking Procedures:**
- **Predetermined Rules:** Establish clear tie-breaker rules, such as the player with the earliest votes gets eliminated, or introduce a random element like a coin toss.
- **Avoid Player Discretion:** Do not allow a single player to decide tie-breakers; use objective methods instead.
6. **Endgame Role Adjustments:**
- **Limited Abilities:** Design roles whose powers diminish as the game approaches the end to prevent overpowering influence.
- **Single-Use Abilities:** Assign abilities that can only be used once and not in the endgame phase.
7. **Encourage Active Participation:**
- **Activity Requirements:** Set minimum activity levels to keep players engaged, reducing the likelihood of inactive players becoming unintended kingmakers.
- **Regular Check-ins:** Have moderators prompt less active players to participate, ensuring that all decisions are collaborative.
8. **Role Transparency:**
- **Open Roles:** Consider playing with open roles revealed at the start to all players, which can reduce uncertainty and limit kingmaker potential.
- **Reveal Upon Death:** Automatically reveal roles when players are eliminated to aid in informed decision-making by remaining players.
9. **Game Moderator Intervention:**
- **Monitor Game State:** The moderator can watch for emerging kingmaker situations and adjust the game accordingly, perhaps by accelerating the endgame.
- **Rule Enforcement:** Ensure that all players adhere strictly to the rules to maintain fairness and prevent manipulation.
10. **Alternate Win Conditions:**
- **Secondary Objectives:** Introduce side goals that can offer players alternative paths to victory, reducing the temptation to act as a kingmaker.
- **Shared Victories:** Allow for joint wins under certain conditions, which can minimize the impact of one player's decisions on the overall outcome.
By integrating these strategies, you can design a Werewolf game on an internet forum that minimizes the risk of a kingmaker situation, ensuring a fair and engaging experience for all participants. The key is thoughtful game structuring, clear communication of rules, and proactive moderation to maintain the game's integrity until its conclusion.
I could, sure, but they're just in different locations. I'd have to move my desk and everything and that's annoying.Also @Ben
Couldnt comment because Im dead, but are you able to hook up your pc to your big screen? That is where I connect my computer to and love gaming on my couch.
I could, sure, but they're just in different locations. I'd have to move my desk and everything and that's annoying.
Maybe we can add a pacifist solo role who wins if there's both a day and night phase back to back without any deaths
I'm in. I'm a glutton for punishment!Before I fully invest in it, is there enough of an interest in having a series of wolf games with tracked statistics?
I tried to do something similar before by scraping old game data, but that was messy.
I'm planning to just start a game using a form/spreadsheet so that all the data stays clean, and I could make meaningful stats around it.
Things like the number of games played, of course, win rate, all that. I'd also be able to quantify how many phases each player has acted in, who everyone targeted the most, how many times each player was executed, splashed, etc.
The main caveat being I'd want to log email on the form to ensure no one is trying to be smart, submitting actions under someone else. But not only do I already have your email, I'm fine with you using a proxy Google account, if you consistently use that while playing.
Edit: also I'm not sharing the input sheet so the email doesn't leave me.
I don't know exactly what you mean but let's goBefore I fully invest in it, is there enough of an interest in having a series of wolf games with tracked statistics?
I tried to do something similar before by scraping old game data, but that was messy.
I'm planning to just start a game using a form/spreadsheet so that all the data stays clean, and I could make meaningful stats around it.
Things like the number of games played, of course, win rate, all that. I'd also be able to quantify how many phases each player has acted in, who everyone targeted the most, how many times each player was executed, splashed, etc.
The main caveat being I'd want to log email on the form to ensure no one is trying to be smart, submitting actions under someone else. But not only do I already have your email, I'm fine with you using a proxy Google account, if you consistently use that while playing.
Edit: also I'm not sharing the input sheet so the email doesn't leave me.
Really just that it'll be tracked on a Google sheet instead of through PM and poll voting. Everything else would be the same, just the way you interact.I don't know exactly what you mean but let's go
I'll give everyone a little time to decompress from this game, while I finish prepping everything, but I'll get a sign up thread going in the next few days.
I'll give everyone a little time