Zell Wolf GWF Zell Wolf Version XI Day 6

[TD]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.

Simple math? Like rolling dice and adding the results. TD should come back and join the campaign?

...Is this the D&D thing?
Never played but I'm so in as long as y'all willing to hold my hand.

 

[Zell 17]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.


...Is this the D&D thing?
Never played but I'm so in as long as y'all willing to hold my hand.

Love ya bud, hope you stick around. Regardless of whether you play wolf or not, but I DO think we can make this a game people enjoy….all the time. Not just most of the time.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.


...Is this the D&D thing?
Never played but I'm so in as long as y'all willing to hold my hand.

Yeah a bunch of newbies (myself included) gearing up. Head over to the sub forum and create a character. There's a lot of interest and likely to be multiple campaigns.

Also @Tubby23 and I are working on an amazing race style game to be launched in the new year.

As a result of this game we all felt motivated to make games that would be very unlikely to cause any ill will and don't involve deception and such.

 

[shortkut]

Thanks guys, I appreciate it.


...Is this the D&D thing?
Never played but I'm so in as long as y'all willing to hold my hand.

That’s where most of us are at

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

We're all just holding each other's hands

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

 

[shortkut]

We're all just holding each other's hands

 

[Jon]

but I DO think we can make this a game people enjoy….all the time. Not just most of the time.

Must... kill... cupid...

 

[shortkut]

Alternatively, just make me Cupid every game and see if people can guess who I couple

 

[shortkut]

Alternatively, just make me Cupid every game and see if people can guess who I couple

 

[VashTheStampede]

Alternatively, just make me Cupid every game and see if people can guess who I couple

Looks like you coupled your post this time

 

[shortkut]

Looks like you coupled your post this time

And you just won this round!

 

[Zell 17]

Better late than never:

1​	shortkut	RRV	Sheriff
2​	Fool's Requiem	RRV	Bell Ringer
3​	TD	RWW	Nightmare Wolf
4​	canadaguy	RSV	Ritualist
5​	Benzine	RRV	Seer Apprentice
6​	Raine	RSV	Detective
7​	Ben	RRV	Judge
8​	Jon	RWW	Alpha Wolf
9​	Kat	RRV	Loudmouth
10​	Tubby23	RRV	Beast Hunter
11​	Tommy Boy	RV	Cupid
12​	Smacktard	RSV	Warden
13​	Jawneh	RWW	Blind Wolf
14​	VashTheStampede	RRV	Seer Apprentice
15​	GwJumpman	RK	Corruptor
16​	Dean	RWW	Wolf Seer

 

[Zell 17]

Night 1	Role	Action	Result
shortkut	Sheriff	Watch Tommy Boy	No info
Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer	Bells on shortkut and Dean
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Kill Ben
canadaguy	Ritualist	No spell
Benzine	Seer Apprentice	None
Raine	Detective	Check canadaguy and Benzine	Same team
Ben	Judge	None
Jon	Alpha Wolf	Kill canadaguy
Kat	Loudmouth	Reveal Dean
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	Trap Benzine
Tommy Boy	Cupid	Couple Raine/TD Backup: Jon/Tubby23
Smacktard	Warden	None
Jawneh	Blind Wolf	Check canadaguy and Ben	Strong Villager/Regular Villager
VashTheStampede	Seer Apprentice	None
GwJumpman	Corruptor
Dean	Wolf Seer	Check Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer
Wolves	Wolves	Kill canadaguy	canadaguy dead
Day 1	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf
Ben	Judge	None
Kat	Loudmouth	Reveal shortkut
Smacktard	Warden	Jail VashTheStampede and Fool's Requiem
Night 2	Role	Action	Result
shortkut	Sheriff	Watch Dean
Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer	Jailed
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Kill Ben
Benzine	Seer Apprentice	None
Raine	Detective	Check Smacktard and VashTheStampede	Same team
Ben	Judge	None
Jon	Alpha Wolf	Kill GwJumpman
Kat	Loudmouth
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	Trap active on Benzine
Tommy Boy	Cupid	None
Smacktard	Warden	Give weapon to Vash
VashTheStampede	Seer Apprentice	Jailed
GwJumpman	Corruptor	Corrupt Tubby23	Tubby23 corrupted
Dean	Wolf Seer	Check shortkut	Sheriff
Wolves	Wolves	Kill GwJumpman	Cannot be killed
Day 2	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf
Ben	Judge	Judge VashTheStampede
Kat	Loudmouth
Smacktard	Warden	Jail shortkut and TD
Night 3	Role	Action	Result
shortkut	Sheriff	Jailed	Dead
Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer	Bells on Tommy Boy and Dean
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Jailed, use weapon on shortkut, Kill Smacktard
Benzine	Seer Apprentice	None	Convert to Sheriff
Raine	Detective	Check Benzine and Kat	Same team
Ben	Judge	None
Jon	Alpha Wolf	Kill Smacktard
Kat	Loudmouth
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	Trap Tubby23
Tommy Boy	Cupid	None
Smacktard	Warden	Give weapon to TD
VashTheStampede	Seer Apprentice	None	Convert to Sheriff
Dean	Wolf Seer	Check Smacktard	Warden
Wolves	Wolves	Kill Smacktard	Smacktard dead
Day 3	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf
Ben	Judge	Judge VashTheStampede
Kat	Loudmouth	Reveal Dean
Night 4	Role	Action	Result
Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer	Bells on TD and Dean
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Kill Ben
Benzine	Sheriff	Watch Ben	See Tommy Boy and TD
Raine	Detective	Check Jon and Dean	Same team
Ben	Judge
Jon	Alpha Wolf	Kill Ben
Kat	Loudmouth
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	None
Tommy Boy	Cupid	None
VashTheStampede	Sheriff	Watch Ben	See Benzine and TD
Dean	Wolf Seer	Check Tubby23	Beast Hunter
Wolves	Wolves	Kill Ben	Ben dead
Day 4	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Nightmare VashTheStampede
Kat	Loudmouth	Reveal Dean
Night 5	Role	Action	Result
Fool's Requiem	Bell Ringer	None
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Kill Fool's Requiem
Benzine	Sheriff	Watch Tommy Boy
Raine	Detective	None
Kat	Loudmouth	None
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	None
Tommy Boy	Cupid	None
VashTheStampede	Sheriff	Nightmared
Dean	Wolf Seer	Check VashTheStampede, resign, Kill Fool's Requiem	Sheriff
Wolves	Wolves	Kill Fool's Requiem	Fool's Requiem dead
Day 5	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf
Kat	Loudmouth
Night 6	Role	Action	Result
TD	Nightmare Wolf	Kill Kat
Benzine	Sheriff	Watch VashTheStampede
Raine	Detective	None
Kat	Loudmouth	None
Tubby23	Beast Hunter	None
Tommy Boy	Cupid	None
VashTheStampede	Sheriff	Watch Benzine
Dean	Wolf Seer	Kill VashTheStampede
Wolves	Wolves	Kill VashTheStampede	VashTheStampede dead

 

[TD]

I caught up on this thread and it led to a bunch of "I can't believe that was said" and eye roll moments, along with a whole lot of revisionist history.

Not sure if anyone cares but since it may be my final wolf game I'll clarify things to set the record straight:

- It was mentioned a few times that I was convinced it would be a town or cupid win, uh, no. As far back as Day 3 I was telling Jon/Dean it was either going to be a wolf or cupid win.
- I didn't want to sell another wolf even though strategically I could have, me and Raine played this whole game basically with the assumption we would die at any point. I don't think either of us ever really thought we would win it.
- Despite me not wanting to sell wolves, Dean prevented the lynching of a townie (Kat) to turn around and get Jon lynched. A selfish play that really summarizes who he is as a player, selfish. The move helped me but if he was serious about a wolf win he would've let Kat die.
- I never told Raine the wolf names. She figured it all out by herself.
- I came clean to Jon and Dean about me being Cupid'd for one reason, to let them know there was still a chance at a wolf win because they were both ready to give up and panicking when people were accusing them on Day 3.
- I never had some "master plan" all along as mentioned a few times, I was winging it phase by phase as Raine, Dean, and Jon can all attest to, again, because I thought I wouldn't live so I was at least trying to set the wolves up for what I felt was my inevitable death.
- This is a big reason that I came up with the Warden jailbreak plan preemptively if it happened, we needed to play catchup after being down one wolf and missing the kill attempt on Jump. If we didn't find the Warden, I'm going down but at least I'm taking the Detective with me to help the wolves (love you ride or die).
- I see Zell awarded the win to the wolves, I don't agree with the conclusion but I understand how he got to it. At this point, really, town, wolves, or cupids all could have won.
- For what it's worth, being Cupid'd with Raine was insanely fun and I actually had a blast with it so kudos to Tommy for hooking us up, even if the outcome became a giant cluster fuck.
- Outcome and personal feelings aside, this was one of the games I've had the most fun with. I wasn't super active in the day phases and a lot of that had to do with being busy but also in the two chats that I had.

The Cupid role itself I don't think is a big issue. The role needs some adjustments because someone shouldn't be able to claim it and remain invincible. I think it adds a cool element to these games but as a community (myself included), we have to work on what is acceptable game conduct.

When two members (Dean and I) "won" but end up feeling gross about it, something is wrong.

 

[TD]

Random high thought on this whole Cupid thing after reading through the dead thread and seeing the kingmaker situation brought up.

I had some ideas to help future games where a Cupid may get rolled in.

First. I like the new changes to Cupid itself.

However, I think more tweaks are needed. For example, Instigator can only win with the Instigator team, why is this not the case for Cupid team? I think part of the issue with Cupid is you're outright giving people two win conditions to choose from so there's inherent betrayal that may leave feelings of resentment and add to this kingmaker approach. There should've been a downside to me telling Dean & Jon I was Cupid'd, but there really wasn't, it gave the wolves hope, and it gave the Cupids hope.

Another possible idea is that if Cupid is killed, the couple is disbanded and can no longer win as a couple but this might be too aggressive.

Thoughts?

 

[Zell 17]

However, I think more tweaks are needed. For example, Instigator can only win with the Instigator team, why is this not the case for Cupid team? I think part of the issue with Cupid is you're outright giving people two win conditions to choose from so there's inherent betrayal that may leave feelings of resentment and add to this kingmaker approach. There should've been a downside to me telling Dean & Jon I was Cupid'd, but there really wasn't, it gave the wolves hope, and it gave the Cupids hope.

Another possible idea is that if Cupid is killed, the couple is disbanded and can no longer win as a couple but this might be too aggressive.

Thoughts?

People would be pissed at Cupid if they got coupled and it gave them a much harder win condition. Right now it's basically a bonus chance at a win.

 

[TD]

People would be pissed at Cupid if they got coupled and it gave them a much harder win condition. Right now it's basically a bonus chance at a win.

But why the ambiguous language saying that winning as a couple is their primary objective? Are you saying they should play to the default team objective?

Maybe the "kill Cupid" crowd has the right idea.

 

[shortkut]

People would be pissed at Cupid if they got coupled and it gave them a much harder win condition. Right now it's basically a bonus chance at a win.

If you remove the secondary chance to win, you can add Cupid to the group chat so it becomes a block of 3, which is a benefit, but removes their safety of an alternate win condition

 

[Jawneh]

If you remove the secondary chance to win, you can add Cupid to the group chat so it becomes a block of 3, which is a benefit, but removes their safety of an alternate win condition

I had mentioned this as one of the possibilities. Instigator gets a threesome. Why not cupid tw-... three?

Considering the Fool doesn't win with the town, the Cupid just shouldn't either. Add the threesome and it should be a tad more balanced. The couple could always win via either cupid or their original team. Otherwise it's just instigator #2.

 

[Zell 17]

If you remove the secondary chance to win, you can add Cupid to the group chat so it becomes a block of 3, which is a benefit, but removes their safety of an alternate win condition

Basically no different from the Instigator at that point.

Cupid plays out different from the Instigator because both cupid lovers try to hedge their bets to make sure their side still has a way to win if the coupling goes south. Also, neither the town nor wolves have any idea of the coupling: Could be wolves, could be villagers, could be a combo. And some couplings are impossible if the only objective is to win as a couple (see: Wolf coupled with wolf)

 

[TD]

Basically no different from the Instigator at that point.

Cupid plays out different from the Instigator because both cupid lovers try to hedge their bets to make sure their side still has a way to win if the coupling goes south. Also, neither the town nor wolves have any idea of the coupling: Could be wolves, could be villagers, could be a combo. And some couplings are impossible if the only objective is to win as a couple (see: Wolf coupled with wolf)

It would still be plenty different from Instigator. Instigator you're locked in as working with a wolf/townie and the kill role element if the pair dies.

Cupid only picks players and has no idea of roles so it could create a very interesting dynamic without the burden of the alternate condition and wondering if your coupled partner will betray you or if your original team could betray you.

It would be cool to see any of Cupid/town/town, Cupid/wolf/wolf, Cupid/town/wolf, Cupid/town/sk, or Cupid/wolf/sk try to be the final three.

As it is - I feel like you're looking at it like the Cupid pair has two ways to win. You think they'd be pissed by being Cupid'd because they get a harder win condition, if that's the case, why bother with it as is?

 

[TD]

I know sometimes I don't shut up and I was just thinking about Wolf randomly.

Why do I like these forum games so much. Why Subject myself to wolf over and over?

For me, it's reminiscent of my golden days of gaming. Sitting in a basement with three friends, while the four of us play Mario Kart, Goldeneye. Perfect Dark, whatever.

I miss the days of couch co op and social gaming. Period.

Early on into my time with these games I blurred the lines between social game and being offensive. It ended with my "clueless fuck" rant in Vash's game, that was the last time.

The character bits ended for me, like Raine said. I played as myself in these games after that for the most part.

The problem with playing as yourself? When you're an empath and chronic overthinker, it's a strange game to play.

I find myself walking on eggshells with those around me to try to not offend anyone. I end up being very mindful of what everyone says and does to a fault. At the end of the day, probably around the time of the Lamb Chop game, I stopped caring about winning or losing and wanted everyone to have fun. It doesn't mean fun in my way.

You can ask both Dean & Jon how many times I checked to make sure they were having fun.

You can ask Raine how many times I said I was having fun being paired with her.

Hell, even Benzine. He called me out saying what's fun but the ironic part was that I wasn't making that statement for me. I know that Benzine would rather end a game that's been decided and move to the next. That's what is fun for him.

My point is - the main thing I care about in these games is that people have fun, whether that means I play or sit on the sidelines, I don't know.

I agree with what Zell said in that there's got to be a way for us to make this fun for everyone all of the time, not just most of the time.

 

[shortkut]

I know sometimes I don't shut up and I was just thinking about Wolf randomly.

Why do I like these forum games so much. Why Subject myself to wolf over and over?

For me, it's reminiscent of my golden days of gaming. Sitting in a basement with three friends, while the four of us play Mario Kart, Goldeneye. Perfect Dark, whatever.

I miss the days of couch co op and social gaming. Period.

Early on into my time with these games I blurred the lines between social game and being offensive. It ended with my "clueless fuck" rant in Vash's game, that was the last time.

The character bits ended for me, like Raine said. I played as myself in these games after that for the most part.

The problem with playing as yourself? When you're an empath and chronic overthinker, it's a strange game to play.

I find myself walking on eggshells with those around me to try to not offend anyone. I end up being very mindful of what everyone says and does to a fault. At the end of the day, probably around the time of the Lamb Chop game, I stopped caring about winning or losing and wanted everyone to have fun. It doesn't mean fun in my way.

You can ask both Dean & Jon how many times I checked to make sure they were having fun.

You can ask Raine how many times I said I was having fun being paired with her.

Hell, even Benzine. He called me out saying what's fun but the ironic part was that I wasn't making that statement for me. I know that Benzine would rather end a game that's been decided and move to the next. That's what is fun for him.

My point is - the main thing I care about in these games is that people have fun, whether that means I play or sit on the sidelines, I don't know.

I agree with what Zell said in that there's got to be a way for us to make this fun for everyone all of the time, not just most of the time.

I always have fun since I stopped reading as much

 

[TD]

More high ramblings because I need to get this off my chest in case I ever decide to play another game of Wolf:

In another timelime where TD takes a ten minute breather instead:

- Dean made the play one night too early
- Dean has gone after Tubby
- The Cupids pretend to vote Tubby
- People say their piece and the Cupids switch to Dean for lynch (note: my final lynch vote was on Dean when I left)
- Dean's options are joining the town to lynch me or Cupid, both of those MIGHT lead to a town win from the guy preaching to play to his win condition
- Anyone else Dean goes after is going to be a tie vote at best, but the person he votes for likely votes him (Tubby)
- Dean gets lynched
- I control the wolf kill and kill Kat (maybe Benzine)
- Cupids are up 3:2
- We lynch Benzine finally to appease our Cupid
- No wolf night kill
- We lynch Tubby
- Cupids win

So, I'm also going to apologize to Tommy and Raine. You two played a hell of a game and I took the win away at the end.

One of the hard things for everyone to judge is the work that goes on behind the scenes and what people are doing.

While I don't agree with the "winner" of the game, Zell worked with what info he had from who was available, and made a decision.

Now I've noticed he's starting up another game, changed some roles, but hasn't added this to the record book.

So it should be added to the record book if the game is going to have counted and if not, that's fine too.

 

[shortkut]

Dean's options are joining the town to lynch me or Cupid, both of those MIGHT lead to a town win from the guy preaching to play to his win condition

He needed to out you as a wolf and vote you off to try to win as a wolf. Then he had some credibility and the couple is gone

 

[TD]

He needed to out you as a wolf and vote you off to try to win as a wolf. Then he had some credibility and the couple is gone

Except the moment he voted with the Cupid trio to force a draw, he proved he was a wolf.

If he lynches me, the only way for the wolf win is for Dean and someone else to be the final two.

So let's say me and Raine are gone.
That leaves Dean, Tommy, Benzine, Tubby, and Kat.

If Dean is successful in his night kill, he's still out numbered 3 to 1 the next day and the town wins.

 

[shortkut]

Except the moment he voted with the Cupid trio to force a draw, he proved he was a wolf.

If he lynches me, the only way for the wolf win is for Dean and someone else to be the final two.

So let's say me and Raine are gone.
That leaves Dean, Tommy, Benzine, Tubby, and Kat.

If Dean is successful in his night kill, he's still out numbered 3 to 1 the next day and the town wins.

That’s why he should have done it to start the day

 

[TD]

That’s why he should have done it to start the day

It still wouldn't have mattered though. If he was going to take me down it was the day that Jon was finished off, he missed his chance and backed himself into a corner.

 

[TD]

Oh and hot take: if the wolves do get credited with the win, Jawneh was the MVP.

 

[Jawneh]

I got sacc'd for the better of all of wolfkind.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Oh and hot take: if the wolves do get credited with the win, Jawneh was the MVP.

I maintain that I was the MVP for not playing this game.

 

[Jon]

He still could have lynched Tubby, then he controlled the wolf vote and killed Tommy, which takes your advantage away. Then if he votes to lynch you with the town it kills you and Raine. Then one more wolf kill at night and he won.

He had a path to victory. So did you. Town needed quite a bit to roll their way and a misplay altogether.

I'm going by memory here. Far too lazy to look up the scenarios again and I don't care to reopen the wound. There was a layout I did in the dead thread that sort of showed Dean's path forward, but he did control the outcome as far as I remembered.

 

[TD]

I got sacc'd for the better of all of wolfkind.

It may sound like a joke but I actually mean it, but again, benefit of knowing behind the scenes.

Jawneh and I both agreed on playing the long game and it was best to let a wolf die if it was going to happen. It was pretty clear the town was struggling after bumbling into a Day 1 wolf lynch that the wolves helped happen.

MVP Analysis:

Jawneh: After I voted for him, he encouraged other wolves to vote for him too to get cred. As you saw, the play worked wonders.

Jon: Was quiet and busy, didn't get to play a whole lot so not much to say.

Dean: He was my leading MVP candidate until he moved the town off of Kat and onto Jon. It was not a move that was good for the wolf team, it was good for him. Jon wasn't really under fire and as a wolf team, it would have been better for Kat to be lynched and for Dean to be revealed which would have made people question the people he cleared too.

TD: I'll never vote myself for MVP. I was mostly behind the scenes stuff anyhow, plus I quit so there's that.

 

[TD]

He still could have lynched Tubby, then he controlled the wolf vote and killed Tommy, which takes your advantage away. Then if he votes to lynch you with the town it kills you and Raine. Then one more wolf kill at night and he won.

The problem with this is that Dean did a whole lot of assuming what others would do (was wrong) and that helped Zell draw his conclusion.

Nobody asked Tubby who he would've been voting for on the day Dean was pushing to vote him and if Tubby voted Dean, Dean's out.

 

[Jawneh]

It may sound like a joke but I actually mean it, but again, benefit of knowing behind the scenes.

Jawneh and I both agreed on playing the long game and it was best to let a wolf die if it was going to happen. It was pretty clear the town was struggling after bumbling into a Day 1 wolf lynch that the wolves helped happen.

MVP Analysis:

Jawneh: After I voted for him, he encouraged other wolves to vote for him too to get cred. As you saw, the play worked wonders.

Jon: Was quiet and busy, didn't get to play a whole lot so not much to say.

Dean: He was my leading MVP candidate until he moved the town off of Kat and onto Jon. It was not a move that was good for the wolf team, it was good for him. Jon wasn't really under fire and as a wolf team, it would have been better for Kat to be lynched and for Dean to be revealed which would have made people question the people he cleared too.

TD: I'll never vote myself for MVP. I was mostly behind the scenes stuff anyhow, plus I quit so there's that.

I appreciate the sentiment. Though acquiescing to being lynched day 1 and making the best out of it is hardly MVP worthy IMO (but of course on brand). Maybe if this was day 3+ I'd consider it a bigger pp moment.

For me it's between TD and Dean. Possibly TD since he had to balance both wolf and cupid nonsense and not to have either or both crumble while doing it. And then the D3 happened. By his own rights, Dean did run a good wolf game through start to nearly the end. It's hard for me to say how convincing it actually was as I was thinking through most of the days as Dean was rambling on that if I was on the town team I'd think he's a wolf. But I already knew that, so maybe I'm too biased in that sense. Or maybe my sus meter is dialed well for Dean now.

Considering how the game ended, I'd consider the MVP from both wolf AND cupid teams. Town honestly didn't do too well at all this time around so they don't get a say even if there was a chance for a town win still. And consider TD did the things on cupid team and wolf team, he'd get points from working both sides.

 

[TD]

Oh and I guess the last thing I'll say before I shut up, I hope the takeaway here isn't that you have to be a raging asshole to win as a wolf. That's a misconception that popped up at some point. The wolves came close many times without the need to be like that.

The first Cupid game, the wolves came close.
The first time Benzine faked Bell Ringer, the wolves came close.
A couple of games ago when Tommy was the last one standing, the wolves came close.

Again, you don't gotta be an asshole so we can squash this misconception.

 

[Jawneh]

Wolves just love edging that's all.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Every single game its "the town didn't really play well this time" outside of one or two outlier plays.

The town is barely an entity and one that has less knowledge than any of the other 3 factions at play.

I really dislike the "town didn't play well this time" narrative that pops up every game. It's fake analysis.

 

[Jon]

Every single game its "the town didn't really play well this time" outside of one or two outlier plays.

The town is barely an entity and one that has less knowledge than any of the other 3 factions at play.

I really dislike the "town didn't play well this time" narrative that pops up every game. It's fake analysis.

 

[TD]

For what it's worth, I thought the town actually played this one pretty well given the information they were provided.

The game was over for the town Day 3, they just didn't know it - and it had nothing to do with how the town played, just math and the Cupid factor.

 

[TD]

Vash and Benzine both watching Ben? Right move.
Vash not swinging at FR? Right move.
Kat offering to lynch herself to expose Dean? Right move.
Ben offering to prove his role as judge? Right move.
Never lynching a townie? Right move.
There's a lot more but all of those come to mind.

 

[TD]

The only objective mistake I can see made by the town is Kelly jailing me with shortkut and dropping me a weapon.

But even Kelly said he didn't expect a wolf to do that.

My own wolf team thought it was too risky of a play to try.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I take the jail kill as a wolf, personally.

The jailerwarden possibly outs themselves the next day pushing for a lynch and you get a kill role off the board.

Obviously that wasn't an issue this time around.

 

[TD]

I take the jail kill as a wolf, personally.

The jailerwarden possibly outs themselves the next day pushing for a lynch and you get a kill role off the board.

Obviously that wasn't an issue this time around.

One of these days we'll end up on the same team, one of these days.

 

[Zell 17]

More high ramblings because I need to get this off my chest in case I ever decide to play another game of Wolf:

In another timelime where TD takes a ten minute breather instead:

- Dean made the play one night too early
- Dean has gone after Tubby
- The Cupids pretend to vote Tubby
- People say their piece and the Cupids switch to Dean for lynch (note: my final lynch vote was on Dean when I left)
- Dean's options are joining the town to lynch me or Cupid, both of those MIGHT lead to a town win from the guy preaching to play to his win condition
- Anyone else Dean goes after is going to be a tie vote at best, but the person he votes for likely votes him (Tubby)
- Dean gets lynched
- I control the wolf kill and kill Kat (maybe Benzine)
- Cupids are up 3:2
- We lynch Benzine finally to appease our Cupid
- No wolf night kill
- We lynch Tubby
- Cupids win

So, I'm also going to apologize to Tommy and Raine. You two played a hell of a game and I took the win away at the end.

One of the hard things for everyone to judge is the work that goes on behind the scenes and what people are doing.

While I don't agree with the "winner" of the game, Zell worked with what info he had from who was available, and made a decision.

Now I've noticed he's starting up another game, changed some roles, but hasn't added this to the record book.

So it should be added to the record book if the game is going to have counted and if not, that's fine too.

Agreed this plausibly could have happened. Not to be overly harsh, but because you and Raine left I couldn't give you guys the benefit of the doubt unless those remaining said they would have helped you.

It'll get added. I was just going to wait until things had died down a bit.

 

[TD]

Agreed this plausibly could have happened. Not to be overly harsh, but because you and Raine left I couldn't give you guys the benefit of the doubt unless those remaining said they would have helped you.

It'll get added. I was just going to wait until things had died down a bit.

Oh dude it's fine and you know I don't care about the outcome. Like I said earlier, I also understand how you got to that conclusion.

This was more of a "me getting it all off my chest" when it comes to this game so I can move on, but there was a whole lot of incorrect statements and "certainties" being tossed around that I just felt the need to address so I can get on with the retirement and there's no doubts about what happened from my end and why I don't play anymore.

 

[Dean]

I have been very sporadically getting notifications from being tagged, and I see my name mentioned a bunch (both tagged and untagged), which is whatever, can't do anything about that and it isn't going to bother me. By the time I see it, the threads are closed or there are several pages of conversation. I finally got caught up on pretty much all of it, from Cole, TD, Zell, Jon, Tubby, Tommy, etc. etc.

I've seen a lot of opinions, and I've got my own as well. Everybody has their own version of what happened, who was wronged, who should be mad or should not be mad. I've seen a lot of "revisionist history" and claims of it. Some people tried to discredit the wolf win.

If anybody cares, as Cole said, I'm done with GWF for a multitude of reasons:
1. I regret my actions in the wolf game and realized too late that it wasn't worth winning if I'm manipulating real emotions and taking things too far.
2. I have lost at least a couple of friendships. I've had someone imply our friendship never meant anything, somebody I've known for 20 years and was happy to reconnect with, only for things to now be ruined.
3. My name keeps getting brought up negatively, either that I was a prick, a bully, an asshole, toxic, an idiot, or all of the above. I don't need that kind of negativity; nobody does.

The biggest thing to me is, I don't enjoy coming here anymore. I checked back in to see what the notifications were about and see what the general consensus was, after a week or two, and things aren't any better. People are still fighting, and there is one member in particular who is still dragging my name through mud at every opportunity.

I realize I took things too far, and I am very sorry. I have personally and publicly apologized to Vash and others. However, I'm still being trolled and insulted by one member in particular whose friendship I've apparently never truly had, which I don't believe.

I don't get how someone can act like they were upset and left because of anxiety and things getting too personal/mean and definitely not because they rage quit when they didn't get to win the way they wanted, but then they return and continue to bash me and mention me and criticize my playing style and personally attack my ethics and intelligence.

I'm over the whole thing. I need to figure out some way to unregister or whatever.

I'm sorry, again, to the people who I've hurt. I'm sorry to the people who think I hurt them, even if I don't agree with you. I'm actually sorry I even returned here. It isn't just about wolf, it's about being insulted and losing friendships. I will choose to remember people from the original GW and just lose touch with most of you, rather than ruin what few positive memories I do have.

@Mark or @Crystal can ban me or something now.

Goodbye.

 

[shortkut]

I have been very sporadically getting notifications from being tagged, and I see my name mentioned a bunch (both tagged and untagged), which is whatever, can't do anything about that and it isn't going to bother me. By the time I see it, the threads are closed or there are several pages of conversation. I finally got caught up on pretty much all of it, from Cole, TD, Zell, Jon, Tubby, Tommy, etc. etc.

I've seen a lot of opinions, and I've got my own as well. Everybody has their own version of what happened, who was wronged, who should be mad or should not be mad. I've seen a lot of "revisionist history" and claims of it. Some people tried to discredit the wolf win.

If anybody cares, as Cole said, I'm done with GWF for a multitude of reasons:
1. I regret my actions in the wolf game and realized too late that it wasn't worth winning if I'm manipulating real emotions and taking things too far.
2. I have lost at least a couple of friendships. I've had someone imply our friendship never meant anything, somebody I've known for 20 years and was happy to reconnect with, only for things to now be ruined.
3. My name keeps getting brought up negatively, either that I was a prick, a bully, an asshole, toxic, an idiot, or all of the above. I don't need that kind of negativity; nobody does.

The biggest thing to me is, I don't enjoy coming here anymore. I checked back in to see what the notifications were about and see what the general consensus was, after a week or two, and things aren't any better. People are still fighting, and there is one member in particular who is still dragging my name through mud at every opportunity.

I realize I took things too far, and I am very sorry. I have personally and publicly apologized to Vash and others. However, I'm still being trolled and insulted by one member in particular whose friendship I've apparently never truly had, which I don't believe.

I don't get how someone can act like they were upset and left because of anxiety and things getting too personal/mean and definitely not because they rage quit when they didn't get to win the way they wanted, but then they return and continue to bash me and mention me and criticize my playing style and personally attack my ethics and intelligence.

I'm over the whole thing. I need to figure out some way to unregister or whatever.

I'm sorry, again, to the people who I've hurt. I'm sorry to the people who think I hurt them, even if I don't agree with you. I'm actually sorry I even returned here. It isn't just about wolf, it's about being insulted and losing friendships. I will choose to remember people from the original GW and just lose touch with most of you, rather than ruin what few positive memories I do have.

@Mark or @Crystal can ban me or something now.

Goodbye.

1. we accept your apology
2. We’re all moving forward. Nothing says those are lost forever
3. Pretty sure those were all old posts

No one wants you to leave you dingleberry

 

[Crystal]

I'm sorry, again, to the people who I've hurt. I'm sorry to the people who think I hurt them, even if I don't agree with you. I'm actually sorry I even returned here. It isn't just about wolf, it's about being insulted and losing friendships. I will choose to remember people from the original GW and just lose touch with most of you, rather than ruin what few positive memories I do have.

I wish you'd stay, I genuinely believe everyone here cares about you and wants you to be here, no matter what happened in a Wolf game. You're a friend to all of us, Dean, and while I can't speak about any of this wolf stuff because I'm not in it, I sincerely doubt there are hard feelings or that anyone wants you to leave us over a game.

@Mark or @Crystal can ban me or something now.

No.