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Actually, that was the one argument I didn’t get involved in. I just called him a dumdum because I learn my insults from my 4 1/2 year old
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Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1
- Thread starter Zell 17
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Wouldn't be the first time I've heard that insult from a pharmacist
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ID docs are the worst because they refuse to listen to anything… actually metabolic doctors are worse
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Shhhh… I told you that in confidence
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Oh I always listen. Even if I usually get my way. But my field isn't Infectious Disease.
VashTheStampede
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I've had people over this evening, so I haven't been as active as I like.
I find it silly that there were pages of argument about odds. Silly because they were completely pointless and only served to make it harder for people to follow discussion.
Whether or not Ryan was right or wrong in his idea that it was less likely that Cole would be a wolf this game is completely irrelevant UNLESS you can prove that he KNOWS the correct odds. Even if he was wrong in his estimation, he very well could have acted based on that incorrect assessment. And THAT is what is important.
I find it silly that there were pages of argument about odds. Silly because they were completely pointless and only served to make it harder for people to follow discussion.
Whether or not Ryan was right or wrong in his idea that it was less likely that Cole would be a wolf this game is completely irrelevant UNLESS you can prove that he KNOWS the correct odds. Even if he was wrong in his estimation, he very well could have acted based on that incorrect assessment. And THAT is what is important.
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One wonders if it was by design...
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Despite what has been said here, I think abstaining the first day is a bad idea with all the roles out there. Everyone has their own theory and that's fine, I don't think anyone is wrong yet. But I don't agree with abstention. I still have no idea who to start with, but I will be voting for the person with the most votes if we don't have a solid person by Sunday evening. In short, I will not be abstaining. I am 100% voting for someone before the day is over.
no one wonders that. literally no one.
welcome to GameWinners where everyone is going to keep saying they're right until the person that was wrong agrees.
it was just a dumb off-topic argument in the middle of a game.
NOT GONNA LIE TOMMY ADULT.
this is HUUUGELY suspicious to me. not only you saying abstaining is a bad idea (which I vehemently disagree with) but also saying you'll just tack on a vote for whoever is leading? you're setting off some alarm bells, bud.
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That's what a wolf would say...
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Oh, I did. I learned that you argue with people a lot, so much that you end up not being a primary suspect anymore, regardless of how people say "they always knew".
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Tommy Adult lmfao. Better than Tommy Man.
I know it will cause suspicion, but with 36 hour day phases and a game full of roles, I think a vote is necessary. I could be wrong and get someone fucked for no reason, but I don't think anything happens without reason in these games. Except shortkut dying.
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Idk, it helped me a little bit. Still very early, though.
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I haven't either, I have only played Wolf in IRC where the pacing is a LOT faster. Maybe that's why I feel like not voting is silly. But it's where I stand, I think we need to vote someone out today.
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OK this is NOT what I meant lol
yeah that's true, but you also know I have a game plan for every single day, and right now I'm just reacting to everyone else's posts.
I disagree even further. the roles only make it SAFER to abstain, because some of those roles will garner information for us, and random voting just increases the chance we hit some one valuable.
or, again, the fool, who ends the game for all of us.
my suspect list is short, but you are climbing.
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I'm playing catch up from the last game. I wanted to vote for him more than just the one time. If I were a townie, I wouldn't have even bothered with random votes for those rounds.
I can confirm that fool repeatedly said "I think I'd vote for you here", but was often worried about it starting a bandwagon.
voting for me will close to never make me suspect someone.
but I feel like you're fishing, almost like you and Tommy set that up.
...or you're framing Tommy.
THE PLOT THICKENS
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You haven't, I've only played this once and it was IRL. I agree it'll be fun to play together, I've been looking forward to it. =]
This is exactly what you said, it was quoted in the post you replied to: "in the previous game, I'd have to reread, but I don't *think* I outright lied"
So you did claim to have never lied in the last game, but with a very convenient out if you do happen to be caught in an outright lie. I followed the previous game closely, and I've got my eye on you this time for sure...
It'll be very interesting to see the results of your team comparison against shortkut tonight. Right now I'm leaning towards you being a townie and you really are playing it honest to set up your believability for the next time you're a wolf, but we'll see how it goes.
I'm going to abstain, but I'm open to changing if somebody has some solid info to go on. If it weren't for the fool, I'd advocate for lynching Cole or Ants since it'd be a 50/50 chance of getting an evil person on the first night, and a decent chance at the serial killer, which could save multiple townies vs waiting. It's not a great risk/reward ratio with an equal chance of serial killer and fool though.
Of course it's possible shortkut is evil and he's setting someone up, but that'd be bold to do so early since he'd be found out after whoever he fingers turns up innocent. I'd have to look at the roles again to see if there's something powerful and difficult enough to kill to make a sacrifice like that worth it, but I can't recall any offhand, and Cole has directly contradicted that possibility for himself (no offense, supposed witch).
Regardless of how that shakes out, I feel like we need to prioritize finding the fool somehow. Every lynch is extra risky otherwise, especially if we're using "definitely not a townie" as the reason to lynch. What if Ants and Cole are both innocent, and shortkut is hoping we'll find that out and lynch him as a suspected wolf when he's actually a fool? Or he is a wolf setting them up, and uses being a possible fool to postpone his lynching? The fool being unknown puts too much into question.
Wait, do we even have any way to distinguish between the fool and the serial killer? I gotta look at their auras again.
Brb, going to make notes on all the roles so I can eliminate SOME of this guess work.
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Tommy seems a bit eager to go against the grain and start a bandwagon on someone, playing off of what shortkut said earlier about wolves dog piling compounded with Cole's wolf strat of getting strong players lynched so they could have easy night kills.
This doesn't lead me to suspect Tommy is a wolf, tbh. That blatant a suspicious play could easily be Fool trying to start a bandwagon on themselves.
This doesn't lead me to suspect Tommy is a wolf, tbh. That blatant a suspicious play could easily be Fool trying to start a bandwagon on themselves.
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I don't think I'm being blatantly suspicious for wanting to vote, especially since people have started being public about their roles, and not everyone can be protected. But I can understand where you're coming from. It's interesting to see how fast things turn on you just by posting lol.
I'm gonna be more sporadic the rest of the night (I'll check in and maybe make a post or two, but not hyper active.)
PREVAILING THEORY: (and I note at this time it's like 90% conjecture, but I'm gonna toss out all my theories this game, maybe I'll strike gold.)
Tommy was the first person to jump on the "I think Cole is telling the truth!" train. A wolf would know for a fact I'm *NOT* a wolf, and with how many roles are in this game, there's no reason for Tommy to believe I'm lying.
But Tommys a smart enough guy, he knows that by publicly backing me up, that also means he can't try to kill me tonight. (This next part is where I'd LOVE to lie and do a little bit of townie manipulation), I want to say "I'm not going to protect myself tonight because Tommy already knows he can't kill me or it makes him look very guity". But I am NOT going to say that, because that's not the truth. I *am* going to protect myself tonight. Full stop. I've already sent the message to Zell. I said (paraphrasing) "it doesn't say I can't protect myself, so I am officially protecting myself."
so if t his theory is right (which again, is like, primarily me spitballing a potential outcome if Tommy IS a wolf), Tommy won't try to kill me anytime soon, which he thinks will make him look more innocent. Especially now that I'm calling him out about potentially being a wolf. He'll keep me around as long as he can.
But therein lies a problem. I don't lose my protection unless it is SUCCESFUL. I could (theoretically) protect myself every single night. And the only way he can cancel that is by wasting a night kill that he knows will be blocked by my potion.
I don't think I will be targeted tonight, and I will be protecting myself.
Other protectors, whoever you are. spread out your protections as best you can. someone needs to protect a "big name", someone needs to protect someone that hasn't been as active yet.
again, this is not me saying "Tommy is a wolf" this is just a day 1 theory based on very very limited evidence.
(also this theory will be hard to confirm unless after the game Tommys like "haha Coleman nailed it, I was totally planning to keep him around" etc.)
We'll see.
PREVAILING THEORY: (and I note at this time it's like 90% conjecture, but I'm gonna toss out all my theories this game, maybe I'll strike gold.)
Tommy was the first person to jump on the "I think Cole is telling the truth!" train. A wolf would know for a fact I'm *NOT* a wolf, and with how many roles are in this game, there's no reason for Tommy to believe I'm lying.
But Tommys a smart enough guy, he knows that by publicly backing me up, that also means he can't try to kill me tonight. (This next part is where I'd LOVE to lie and do a little bit of townie manipulation), I want to say "I'm not going to protect myself tonight because Tommy already knows he can't kill me or it makes him look very guity". But I am NOT going to say that, because that's not the truth. I *am* going to protect myself tonight. Full stop. I've already sent the message to Zell. I said (paraphrasing) "it doesn't say I can't protect myself, so I am officially protecting myself."
so if t his theory is right (which again, is like, primarily me spitballing a potential outcome if Tommy IS a wolf), Tommy won't try to kill me anytime soon, which he thinks will make him look more innocent. Especially now that I'm calling him out about potentially being a wolf. He'll keep me around as long as he can.
But therein lies a problem. I don't lose my protection unless it is SUCCESFUL. I could (theoretically) protect myself every single night. And the only way he can cancel that is by wasting a night kill that he knows will be blocked by my potion.
I don't think I will be targeted tonight, and I will be protecting myself.
Other protectors, whoever you are. spread out your protections as best you can. someone needs to protect a "big name", someone needs to protect someone that hasn't been as active yet.
again, this is not me saying "Tommy is a wolf" this is just a day 1 theory based on very very limited evidence.
(also this theory will be hard to confirm unless after the game Tommys like "haha Coleman nailed it, I was totally planning to keep him around" etc.)
We'll see.
Fair point, I was mistaken. I didn't think I had outright lied, but I suppose I did. I *do* try not to in all wolf games (whether I'm good or evil), I find it more interesting to TWIST the truth to my will, rather than just outright lie.
...hahahaha this is a fucking amazing read. I *am* being genuine when I say I try not to lie no matter what I am, but yes absolutely, I will be 100% honest this game so that future games people can see that honesty is a big part of my game.
objectively this is a GREAT strategy. if it weren't for the fool, and if you trust shortkut, I would completely advocate for a coin flip between Ants and I.
OKAY MAJOR UPDATE
ZELL SAYS I CAN NOT PROTECT MYSELF.
@Ryan! if you are who you say you are, and you decide you wanna protect me tonight, it wouldn't go amiss. Especially because I'm saying here that I can't protect myself.
Will reevaluate strategy in the morning considering now I know I cant protect myself. (WHICH IS MEGA DUMB DUMB ZELL, IT DOESN'T SAY I CANT. WHY CANT I DRINK MY OWN POTION?!)
ZELL SAYS I CAN NOT PROTECT MYSELF.
@Ryan! if you are who you say you are, and you decide you wanna protect me tonight, it wouldn't go amiss. Especially because I'm saying here that I can't protect myself.
Will reevaluate strategy in the morning considering now I know I cant protect myself. (WHICH IS MEGA DUMB DUMB ZELL, IT DOESN'T SAY I CANT. WHY CANT I DRINK MY OWN POTION?!)
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In a game where the Fool is an active role that instantly loses the game for everyone, it makes zero sense to want to have a day one vote. Even wolves wouldn't jump in on that, because they lose before they can get a kill. By calling for a vote no matter what, it feels like you're trying to push for people thinking you're incredibly suspicious because nearly everyone has said the day one vote is a terrible plan. You almost certainly aren't a wolf, you're just trying to appear that way. It's very, shall we say, Foolish?
VashTheStampede
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My current voting thought:
shortkut says he checked Cole/Ants. They are not on the same team.
Cole says he is a witch.
Thus, if everyone is truthful, Ants is wolf or solo.
Ants was the first one to bring up Fool, so he has Fool on the mind. Either cause he is the fool or he's actually paying attention to the rules. Makes him too much of a risk to lynch without more information.
Gonna put Abstain for now but may change before time is up.
shortkut says he checked Cole/Ants. They are not on the same team.
Cole says he is a witch.
Thus, if everyone is truthful, Ants is wolf or solo.
Ants was the first one to bring up Fool, so he has Fool on the mind. Either cause he is the fool or he's actually paying attention to the rules. Makes him too much of a risk to lynch without more information.
Gonna put Abstain for now but may change before time is up.
VashTheStampede
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You've been testing on yourself for years, you've developed a tolerance.
I said I wouldn't lie in this thread.
I said I was voting for shortkut and wouldn't change it. I 100% meant it at the time
just in case I don't wake up early enough tomorrow.
I change my vote to abstain.
knowing now I can't protect myself, I don't want to risk losing an ally.
I said I was voting for shortkut and wouldn't change it. I 100% meant it at the time
just in case I don't wake up early enough tomorrow.
I change my vote to abstain.
knowing now I can't protect myself, I don't want to risk losing an ally.
you know a little too much about witchcraft.
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Fair enough. I am just so not used to the fool being an entire game loser for everyone so I think I need to rethink how I approach the first vote, then. I'm not trying to rush into a vote or into a bandwagon, but I am trying to avoid losing an important future role the first night. Cole can't protect himself now so he's certainly target #1 for the wolves, unless someone else can protect him. Which I have been calling for.
Officially voting to Abstain. Some might think changing my logic is suspicious and that's fine, but part of the reason we all talk is to convince people to see their reasoning. I keep forgetting that the fool is a nuke in Megaton, so abstaining is the best way to go. But if I die during the night phase, I have literally nobody I feel comfortable calling suspicious.
Definitely not wolf:
Cole
Maybe wolf:
Ryan!
shortkut
Holly
Ants!
last post for now @Ryan! the original plan still works. protect me, I'll protect shortkut, and we can see what his investigation says.
if shortkut dies, you know I'm lying (or I guess in theory you don't, Zells rules say all night actions are chronological which means I could try and save shortkut but it's already too late) but it's fair to assume I'm lying if shortkut dies.
if I die, the same logic applies to Ryan. (including potentially being too late, but still.)
(Tommy is climbing my list faster by changing his vote. I said it here first.)
if shortkut dies, you know I'm lying (or I guess in theory you don't, Zells rules say all night actions are chronological which means I could try and save shortkut but it's already too late) but it's fair to assume I'm lying if shortkut dies.
if I die, the same logic applies to Ryan. (including potentially being too late, but still.)
(Tommy is climbing my list faster by changing his vote. I said it here first.)
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That was my first vote
I'm gunna go quiet too, I think I did the opposite of my intention and made me more suspicious for trying to facilitate conversation and forcing a vote. We have until 9am Monday morning, though. Curious to see what the people who haven't been so active feel.
VashTheStampede
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One hitch in your plan:
Berserk werewolf: Once per game, can select any villager for a guaranteed night kill. Anyone attempting to protect that player will also die.
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Or the berserk werewolf can kill you and have a feast, tubby
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Plenty of me to go round.
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The thing about that is, if my power works exactly like the Tough Guy, them getting their guaranteed kill means they may take out two, but I don't die until the next day at which point I just out them anyway and they drop a Wolf. It's a lose lose for them. Then the Medium can choose to resurrect a protector role and I'll still be available, as well as having the Doctor be around as an unknown variable for them.
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They've also blown their big super weapon on two minor roles. They don't have the Doctor. They don't have the Sheriff. They don't have the Medium, who may be the single most powerful entity in this entire game. They don't have the Aura Seer. They have to deal with an unknown protector role. Honestly, their best strategy would be to convince the town they're vulnerable townies and keep me around wasting my protection on them. Since I can't be killed in a single night unless they waste that ability, I'd be more of an asset for them to keep around, assuming they can convince me one of them is worth protecting.
VashTheStampede
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