Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1

[shortkut]

...uhh what?

how can you confirm we're not on the same team? according to the rules, I read as "unknown", there are several other *townies* that also read as unknown. which means we could both be townie. I'm the witch, he could be gunner and read unknown too. but we're fighting the same cause.

alternatively, ants read "good", can't lynch him, but might lead you to believe I'm lying.

or ants read "evil" and now you're preserving him.

you wanna join my total honesty game? I'm down.

how did we both read? and why would you still vote for Ryan knowing that *YOU PERSINALLY* can detect the wolves? lol

what is HAPPENING

It says I can find out if they are on the same team or not. I cannot find out if they are good or bad or their role

 

[Cole]

We knew you were a wolf Cole, and a few people figured out ants as well. Not voting tells us nothing. lynching a townie almost always has at least one wolf on the bandwagon

no you didn't lol

you literally would have me on your list 100% of the time. NO ONE came for me. it's so easy to say it in hindsight. did people suspect me? obviously, that's the goal. but you are a stone faced liar if you say "we knew" but there was never one concerted effort to lynch me.

 

[Cole]

It says I can find out if they are on the same team or not. I cannot find out if they are good or bad or their role

okay, fine. I made a mistake, there's a ton of roles and I will admit I didn't flat out read them all yet. (I figured I'd read them as things like this came up)

I was mistaken and I apologize.

BUT, I guess this requires more rule clarification.

@Zell 17 does "same team" mean wolves vs townies? or does it mean good vs evil vs unknown.

HYPOTHETICALLY if ants is the doctir and I'm the witch, would we read same team or not?

 

[shortkut]

okay, fine. I made a mistake, there's a ton of roles and I will admit I didn't flat out read them all yet. (I figured I'd read them as things like this came up)

I was mistaken and I apologize.

BUT, I guess this requires more rule clarification.

@Zell 17 does "same team" mean wolves vs townies? or does it mean good vs evil vs unknown.

HYPOTHETICALLY if ants is the doctir and I'm the witch, would we read same team or not?

My understanding was just same or not same. Doctor and witch are both village team. The other teams are solo and wolf. The aura seer can see more details

 

[Cole]

My understanding was just same or not same. Doctor and witch are both village team. The other teams are solo and wolf. The aura seer can see more details

I agree that's one interpretation if it (and I would theorize you're correct), but it's possible "team" refers here to "alliance", good/evil/unknown.

 

[shortkut]

I agree that's one interpretation if it (and I would theorize you're correct), but it's possible "team" refers here to "alliance", good/evil/unknown.

My interpretation was based off of his wording in the initial post. He specifically used the words team and aura as different terms

For the record, when I found out I could not learn good or evil, I asked if I could forego detecting someone to take night classes and become a better detective

 

[Cole]

My interpretation was based off of his wording in the initial post. He specifically used the words team and aura as different terms

For the record, when I found out I could not learn good or evil, I asked if I could forego detecting someone to take night classes and become a better detective

again, I agree that's probably the correct interpretation, but id like to know for sure.

but I can give you the benefit of the doubt and even believe you're being honest.

but I also will happily lynch you if you're steering us in the same direction you steered the game last time.

 

[shortkut]

again, I agree that's probably the correct interpretation, but id like to know for sure.

but I can give you the benefit of the doubt and even believe you're being honest.

but I also will happily lynch you if you're steering us in the same direction you steered the game last time.

Look at who bandwagons on me. When I’m not a wolf, use that information wisely

 

[Ryan!]

I didn’t ask anyone to blatantly reveal themselves. I wanted people to point towards others with suspicions.

I’ll play like @Cole - I’m the town detective and a shitty one at that. All I know is that Cole and ants! are not on the same team. If Cole is telling the truth, then it means my original vote for ants! Was actually pretty good.

Despite that, I’m petty and voting for @Ryan!

That is a fantastic backtrack you've got going on there. How would you like people with info to reveal it without outing themselves?

Petty vote all you want. I'm still not voting anyone day one because it's stupid. If the Wolves kill you during the night we'll know you were the Fool. If they don't kill you, we'll know you're a Wolf and we can safely lynch you tomorrow.

 

[shortkut]

That is a fantastic backtrack you've got going on there. How would you like people with info to reveal it without outing themselves?

Petty vote all you want. I'm still not voting anyone day one because it's stupid. If the Wolves kill you during the night we'll know you were the Fool. If they don't kill you, we'll know you're a Wolf and we can safely lynch you tomorrow.

Wait until someone posts and call it suspicious and vote for them. If they get killed, everyone they vote for becomes an instant suspect.

Changing my vote from a petty vote back to voting for @Ryan! for being a dumdum

 

[Cole]

Look at who bandwagons on me. When I’m not a wolf, use that information wisely

kut, our different styles aside, you know I know what I'm doing.

I'll examine any one who votes for every one.

 

[Cole]

That is a fantastic backtrack you've got going on there. How would you like people with info to reveal it without outing themselves?

Petty vote all you want. I'm still not voting anyone day one because it's stupid. If the Wolves kill you during the night we'll know you were the Fool. If they don't kill you, we'll know you're a Wolf and we can safely lynch you tomorrow.

this is a horrendously misleading statement. we absolutely will not know he's a wolf if he survives.

 

[Ryan!]

Wait until someone posts and call it suspicious and vote for them. If they get killed, everyone they vote for becomes an instant suspect.

Changing my vote from a petty vote back to voting for @Ryan! for being a dumdum

I like the part where I say a statement you made was incredibly suspicious but still suggested not voting for you or anyone else because day one votes are bad. And then with the Fool being a role, it's doubly stupid. I voted abstain. You are getting extremely defensive when called out for your little slip in your first post.

 

[shortkut]

I like the part where I say a statement you made was incredibly suspicious but still suggested not voting for you or anyone else because day one votes are bad. And then with the Fool being a role, it's doubly stupid. I voted abstain. You are getting extremely defensive when called out for your little slip in your first post.

It’s not a slip if it was deliberate. As detective, if I found two people on the same team, I would try to see if anyone else was on their team. If I got more people on the team than there are wolves, I would try to steer votes away from them. If one of them was revealed as a wolf, I would have either outted myself or kept calling the other person’s posts suspicious until a bandwagon forms.

Edit to add: There are ways to steer the conversation without revealing yourself the way I already did. For not realizing, you’re a dumdum and/or a wolf

 

[Ryan!]

It’s not a slip if it was deliberate. As detective, if I found two people on the same team, I would try to see if anyone else was on their team. If I got more people on the team than there are wolves, I would try to steer votes away from them. If one of them was revealed as a wolf, I would have either outted myself or kept calling the other person’s posts suspicious until a bandwagon forms.

Edit to add: There are ways to steer the conversation without revealing yourself the way I already did. For not realizing, you’re a dumdum and/or a wolf

And if your little spat after your bit of suspicious activity ends up getting me killed we'll be well aware of how big a mistake you made.

 

[A Punched Face]

Just chiming in to say I'm not being quiet on purpose. I'm still not at home and don't have full access to everything.

Right now I want to confirm:

@Cole is claiming to be the witch
@shortkut is claiming to be that one that can tell when people are on opposite teams but not specify which teen

Right?

Did I miss any? I tried to get through the past few pages but phone reading in between things is tough.

I'll have time to review tomorrow as well before I decide on officially voting or not.

 

[shortkut]

Just chiming in to say I'm not being quiet on purpose. I'm still not at home and don't have full access to everything.

Right now I want to confirm:

@Cole is claiming to be the witch
@shortkut is claiming to be that one that can tell when people are on opposite teams but not specify which teen

Right?

Did I miss any? I tried to get through the past few pages but phone reading in between things is tough.

I'll have time to review tomorrow as well before I decide on officially voting or not.

Ryan is implying he has an important role and killing him would be bad news, but he’s also a dumdum so make of that what you will.

 

[Cole]

so far that's it, yes. me witch, kut detective

 

[Cole]

this is a horrendously misleading statement. we absolutely will not know he's a wolf if he survives.

Ryan I would like you to address this.

if you are a role that can detect shortkut (or already have), it's time to say something more specific. because otherwise, it is odd you'd assume him NOT dying tonight means he's a wolf. or even that him dying will definitely mean he's the fool.

 

[Ryan!]

Ryan I would like you to address this.

if you are a role that can detect shortkut (or already have), it's time to say something more specific. because otherwise, it is odd you'd assume him NOT dying tonight means he's a wolf. or even that him dying will definitely mean he's the fool.

No, I don't detect. I simply found his little bit at the end suspicious. If that was his intention, that's fine. But it's still suspicious.

I know that it would be a waste for the wolves to try and kill me during the night and that no one targeted Cole last night.

 

[Cole]

No, I don't detect. I simply found his little bit at the end suspicious. If that was his intention, that's fine. But it's still suspicious.

I know that it would be a waste for the wolves to try and kill me during the night and that no one targeted Cole last night.

you don't know that no one targeted me last night though... there could be any number of protection roles.

The witch (me), until I hear otherwise, I'm pretty sure I can protect MYSELF.

The doctor can protect.

and the three "additional" roles could *all* be more witches, or they could all be any of the other roles that can protect.

I could've had 4 people protecting me, the wolves, the serial killer, and whoever the fuck else all trying to kill me.

you're speaking in SO VERY MANY absolutes that are ABSOLUTELY not absolute.

it's getting more weird, man, I'm not gonna lie to you.

 

[Ryan!]

you don't know that no one targeted me last night though... there could be any number of protection roles.

The witch (me), until I hear otherwise, I'm pretty sure I can protect MYSELF.

The doctor can protect.

and the three "additional" roles could *all* be more witches, or they could all be any of the other roles that can protect.

I could've had 4 people protecting me, the wolves, the serial killer, and whoever the fuck else all trying to kill me.

you're speaking in SO VERY MANY absolutes that are ABSOLUTELY not absolute.

it's getting more weird, man, I'm not gonna lie to you.

Yes, I'm aware.

 

[Tubby23]

Waking up to 4 pages of discussion is why I love a game of Wolf.

From what I have gleaned so far it seems too risky to make any vote Day 1, especially when considering all our fun would be over of we lynch the fool.

I need to go back and re-read all the posts to try and establish an understanding of who is up to something and who isn't. Having not played 100s of games with you guys my first read didn't give me anything glaring to go by.

 

[Cole]

Yes, I'm aware.

then why are you speaking in absolutes?

"kut is the fool if he dies tonight"
"kut is a wolf if he survives tonight"
"no one targeted Cole last night"

not one of those statements can be said with ANY amount of certainty.

 

[Ryan!]

then why are you speaking in absolutes?

"kut is the fool if he dies tonight"
"kut is a wolf if he survives tonight"
"no one targeted Cole last night"

not one of those statements can be said with ANY amount of certainty.

One of them can

 

[Tubby23]

One of them can

Which one?

 

[Ryan!]

No one targeted Cole.

 

[Tubby23]

I'm still not sure we can conclusively say that.

@Zell 17 does the Fool win if the the Priest splashes it with holy water? The role description says lynching but I just want to check all the win/loss conditions

 

[Cole]

No one targeted Cole.

how can you say this as an absolute? just because I'm alive?

there are NUMEROUS protection roles in this game. the only way you could be even remotely certain is if you are a wolf or serial killer and you chose not to target me. but EVEN THEN the other role could have.

that is not an absolute unless you know something I don't.

 

[Ryan!]

I'm still not sure we can conclusively say that.

@Zell 17 does the Fool win if the the Priest splashes it with holy water? The role description says lynching but I just want to check all the win/loss conditions

I can conclusively say that. And I can outright state it is a waste for the Wolves to try and kill me. There's only one guaranteed way, and that's the Berserker using his power for a guarantee. And even then, they don't get rid of more powerful roles and they have wasted their power.

 

[Cole]

I can conclusively say that. And I can outright state it is a waste for the Wolves to try and kill me. There's only one guaranteed way, and that's the Berserker using his power for a guarantee. And even then, they don't get rid of more powerful roles and they have wasted their power.

okay so you're effectively outing yourself as another witch.

what you're trying to imply is that you tried to protect me last night, but your potion was not used, and therefore no one targeted me.

and saying "the wolves would waste trying to kill you" means you also plan to protect yourself tonight.

yes, I (a witch townie) am outing you.

tell me I'm wrong and explain another way those two statements make sense.

 

[Jawneh]

Holy fuck. I'm gonna need two spreadsheets to keep track of all these roles. This is going to be a slight mindfuck for a while to go from a 2 basic role game to a 764 role game. But hey, as long as we're gonna have another banger I'm all in for it.

I shall abstain from voting today. I'll just kick back, sip my soda, and watch whatever Ryan is cooking. Hopefully something entertaining in the end.

... and also go back and try to internalize what the hell everyone can do with their powers.

 

[Ryan!]

okay so you're effectively outing yourself as another witch.

what you're trying to imply is that you tried to protect me last night, but your potion was not used, and therefore no one targeted me.

and saying "the wolves would waste trying to kill you" means you also plan to protect yourself tonight.

yes, I (a witch townie) am outing you.

tell me I'm wrong and explain another way those two statements make sense.

I'm a Bodyguard. I protected you last night. No one went after you. They need to attack me twice in order to get rid of me. The only way to do it in one shot is for the Berserker to use his power and effectively waste it instead of getting rid of a more powerful role.

 

[Cole]

I'm a Bodyguard. I protected you last night. No one went after you. They need to attack me twice in order to get rid of me. The only way to do it in one shot is for the Berserker to use his power and effectively waste it instead of getting rid of a more powerful role.

or that they tried for you last night, and tonight would be the second one if they try again.

so still, not an absolute.

 

[Cole]

also, in the spirit of honesty. I'm curious why you protected *me* after what happened in the first game (assuming you read it), why would you even risk saving me if I could be a role that allows for serious levels if manipulation.

I would be the last person I would ever protect unless you knew for sure I was innocent.

 

[Ryan!]

also, in the spirit of honesty. I'm curious why you protected *me* after what happened in the first game (assuming you read it), why would you even risk saving me if I could be a role that allows for serious levels if manipulation.

I would be the last person I would ever protect unless you knew for sure I was innocent.

I played the math. You were a wolf in the last game. The odds of you getting wolf again in the next game are extremely low.

If what you said is true, and what kut said is true, then just protect me tonight, and have kut investigate you and I. We'll be revealed as the same team.

 

[Ants!]

I played the math. You were a wolf in the last game. The odds of you getting wolf again in the next game are extremely low.

If what you said is true, and what kut said is true, then just protect me tonight, and have kut investigate you and I. We'll be revealed as the same team.

That’s not how odds work. Last game already happened and does not change the odds this go-around as being 1 in 4.

 

[Fire Queen]

I played the math. You were a wolf in the last game. The odds of you getting wolf again in the next game are extremely low.

i flipped this coin 50 times and it got heads all fifty times! next time it’s definitely gonna come up tails

EDIT: it’s bugging me that i used both “fifty” and “50” in this post but i have to stand by it

 

[Jawneh]

also, in the spirit of honesty. I'm curious why you protected *me* after what happened in the first game (assuming you read it), why would you even risk saving me if I could be a role that allows for serious levels if manipulation.

I might not agree with a bunch of the stuff Ryan is rambling about, but there was no reason not to use Bodyguards power (if he is one) to hopefully find out something. There's no downsides and protecting you is a good random choice as you are a power player in general and maybe the wolves this game chose to out you night 0. If I was the bodyguard I would've potentially chosen you or kut or Ants thanks to the previous game.

 

[Cole]

I played the math. You were a wolf in the last game. The odds of you getting wolf again in the next game are extremely low.

If what you said is true, and what kut said is true, then just protect me tonight, and have kut investigate you and I. We'll be revealed as the same team.

no.

firstly: not how odds work assuming a completely random role selection by the host (which in the case of math genius @Zell 17 he definitely did). there's absolutely zero reason I couldn't have drawn wolf agian, but okay, I can forgive the mistake in odds.

second: I will not be protecting you tonight, if Zell for some reason says I *can not* protect myself, I'll either not use it or find someone else I think is in danger.

I'm not convinced you're a wolf, not at all, but you are acting shady right now, and as I said, I will HAPPILY lynch or kill someone that is steering the game negatively even if they are a good guy.

shortkut should only include me in a second investigation if he trusts compeltely that I am who I say I am.

If I am, he now has a permanent barometer of comparing me to someone else.

and AGAIN I WILL SAY: this is me being perfectly honest, this statement alone could cause the wolves to target me. because if shortkut DOES trust me, he can permanently use me to detect who the bad guys are as long as he is in the game. which means he now has an outright detective role where he knows who to kill. so look for wolves to try and accuse me of NOT being the witch in this thread.

and again, I will be protecting myself. and should Zell come back and say that I can *NOT* protect myself, I will post in this thread asking someone else to do it.

 

[Tommy Boy]

Just chiming in to say I'm not being quiet on purpose. I'm still not at home and don't have full access to everything.

Yeah yeah yeah, sounds like something a WOLF would say.

If Cole can't protect himself then I agree that someone else needs to protect him tonight. He said he rarely lies, not never. At this point, everything he said would have to be a lie if he is a wolf so I truly believe he's the witch.

 

[Cole]

I might not agree with a bunch of the stuff Ryan is rambling about, but there was no reason not to use Bodyguards power (if he is one) to hopefully find out something. There's no downsides and protecting you is a good random choice as you are a power player in general and maybe the wolves this game chose to out you night 0. If I was the bodyguard I would've potentially chosen you or kut or Ants thanks to the previous game.

Sure, I can completely respect that stance. I appreciate the protection. but if I were looking from the outside in, I played the first game fairly well I think (trying not to toot my own horn), I'd risk me dying just to have that not happen again. Most of the people in this game have either A: not played w ith me or B: dont remember playing with me when I was a townie. I *can* (not always, but can) be a valauble townie, Ihave ABSOLUTELY cold read people in this game and been accurate. but I doubt many people in the game remember that.

If I was an outside observer, I'd fucking let me die.

 

[Ants!]

EDIT: it’s bugging me that i used both “fifty” and “50” in this post but i have to stand by it

DON’T EDIT YOUR POST!!

RESIST!

Resist

Resist

Resist

 

[Ryan!]

no.

firstly: not how odds work assuming a completely random role selection by the host (which in the case of math genius @Zell 17 he definitely did). there's absolutely zero reason I couldn't have drawn wolf agian, but okay, I can forgive the mistake in odds.

second: I will not be protecting you tonight, if Zell for some reason says I *can not* protect myself, I'll either not use it or find someone else I think is in danger.

I'm not convinced you're a wolf, not at all, but you are acting shady right now, and as I said, I will HAPPILY lynch or kill someone that is steering the game negatively even if they are a good guy.

shortkut should only include me in a second investigation if he trusts compeltely that I am who I say I am.

If I am, he now has a permanent barometer of comparing me to someone else.

and AGAIN I WILL SAY: this is me being perfectly honest, this statement alone could cause the wolves to target me. because if shortkut DOES trust me, he can permanently use me to detect who the bad guys are as long as he is in the game. which means he now has an outright detective role where he knows who to kill. so look for wolves to try and accuse me of NOT being the witch in this thread.

and again, I will be protecting myself. and should Zell come back and say that I can *NOT* protect myself, I will post in this thread asking someone else to do it.

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was extremely unlikely. And it is. The odds of drawing wolf twice are lower than drawing townie twice in a row or drawing wolf then townie.

I'm fine with protecting you tonight. In fact, that's exactly what I'll do.

 

[shortkut]

I’ll investigate you and myself since the rules don’t state I can’t and I’m a shorty detective, so it only makes sense I would investigate myself by mistake. Once that happens, I will know for sure if Cole is a civilian or not.

 

[Cole]

Yeah yeah yeah, sounds like something a WOLF would say.

If Cole can't protect himself then I agree that someone else needs to protect him tonight. He said he rarely lies, not never. At this point, everything he said would have to be a lie if he is a wolf so I truly believe he's the witch.

100% true.

I have a few "personal rules" when it comes to being a wolf. I will *never* say "I am not a wolf", it's not as fun that way. as a civilian, I play it by ear as to whether or not I announce myself as a specific role (for this game I was NOT planning to, but it just felt like the right play. after last game and how many people claim they knew, and that I played "differently" this game, I plan to play with 100% honesty and full disclosure just to prove that point. Of course, maybe I'm lying about being 100% honest?

but either way, I'm not lying. you'll see it eventually whether its lynch, night kill, or victory. and you can go back and read that everything I said was completely true.

in the previous game, I'd have to reread, but I don't *think* I outright lied (other than loosely saying "we" to mean "the town"), but I did embellish. most notably, any time I posted a "here are my suspects list", that's me finding things that actually happened, and twisting it to make it sound like it was suspicious.

 

[Ryan!]

I’ll investigate you and myself since the rules don’t state I can’t and I’m a shorty detective, so it only makes sense I would investigate myself by mistake. Once that happens, I will know for sure if Cole is a civilian or not.

That's fine. I'm just outright saying to investigate me after. I'm going to come out as clean. And I'll protect whichever one you choose to investigate against me.

 

[Cole]

I didn't say it was impossible. I said it was extremely unlikely. And it is. The odds of drawing wolf twice are lower than drawing townie twice in a row or drawing wolf then townie.

I'm fine with protecting you tonight. In fact, that's exactly what I'll do.

but that's not how odds work... see @Fire Queen s post. you can flip a coin 100 times, have it land heads EVERY SINGLE TIME. this game is a complete reset, who was chosen in the previous game as what roles matters to the sum of zero in this game assuming complete randomization. unless Zell drew me as wolf and was like "nah, that's not fair, I'll redraw" (which I do not believe he did), than you can't make any statement about my guilt or innocence regarding the previous game.

ONCE AGAIN: and I am going to stress this as deeply as possible.

I will protect myself tonight, if you are the bodyguard you say you are, you are wasting your protect that could ultimately save a life.

if Zell gets back to me before the end of the day phase and tells me I CAN NOT protect myself, then I will happily post in this thread, and if you choose to protect me then, that's fine.

 

[Ryan!]

but that's not how odds work... see @Fire Queen s post. you can flip a coin 100 times, have it land heads EVERY SINGLE TIME. this game is a complete reset, who was chosen in the previous game as what roles matters to the sum of zero in this game assuming complete randomization. unless Zell drew me as wolf and was like "nah, that's not fair, I'll redraw" (which I do not believe he did), than you can't make any statement about my guilt or innocence regarding the previous game.

ONCE AGAIN: and I am going to stress this as deeply as possible.

I will protect myself tonight, if you are the bodyguard you say you are, you are wasting your protect that could ultimately save a life.

if Zell gets back to me before the end of the day phase and tells me I CAN NOT protect myself, then I will happily post in this thread, and if you choose to protect me then, that's fine.

That was my intention. If you can protect yourself, I'm going to protect kut so he can confirm you're a townie. Then, if he so chooses, he can compare me to one of you two, and I'll protect that person.

 

[Fire Queen]

im not a GWPS vet but misrepresenting odds this badly in a wolf game with so many GWPS vets is not going to get you very far i think