Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1

[Cole]

Ants!, we've all been straightforward thus far. What's your role?

OOO I LOVE THIS!

I think he's effectively conceded that I'm right and he's not working on the side of the town. but I would love to see him tell us his role.

ants, I know you are guilty, I'm gonna kill you tonight.

but you have every reason to answer this.

if you're wolf or serial killer, you have the opportunity to convince us you're not (or by getting us to think you are the fool)

if you're the fool, you have the opportunity to trick us into believing you're a wolf.

so here's tour moment, don't just tell us your role, tell us your strategy. tell us what you've been thinking, what you've been planning. tell us your exact thoughts. lie, be honest, fib, mix it up, doesn't matter.

tell us your story.

 

[Cole]

reply edit: the important part here ants, is that if you're a wolf, you can help your team out by convincing us you're not. even if you're dead, you can help them.

 

[Dean]

I think Ants! has effectively been backed into a corner. I almost get the impression he wants us to think he's the fool, with his not so subtle hints. I'm still abstaining for now, though.

 

[Cole]

I think Ants! has effectively been backed into a corner. I almost get the impression he wants us to think he's the fool, with his not so subtle hints. I'm still abstaining for now, though.

which hints do you see? other than "alright, kill me"?

 

[Kat]

I can answer this definitively but you can of course wait for his confirmation, because why would you trust me?

in my dm from zell telling me my role it reads "One can be used to protect any player. It is consumed if the protection is successful."

I don't trust you, but I can't think of how it'd benefit you to lie in this case, so I believe you. I was only asking to make sure you didn't accidentally waste your potion.

Another question that maybe any experienced player will know: when a kill happens, will we know which role performed it? Say, purely hypothetically, that Cole were the serial killer and pretending to be a witch to cover his murder of Ants tonight. Would that even be possible or would we know whether the serial killer or witch killed him?

In the same vein, do we learn townies' specific roles when they die? At this point, we don't even know who any of the powerful townies are, and they could die before we find out. Knowing which wolves are still around would be super helpful, too.

I know I could PM him, but I figured it'd be better for everyone to be on the same page. Though I guess we'll find out soon anyway.

 

[Cole]

Another question that maybe any experienced player will know: when a kill happens, will we know which role performed it? Say, purely hypothetically, that Cole were the serial killer and pretending to be a witch to cover his murder of Ants tonight. Would that even be possible or would we know whether the serial killer or witch killed him?

EXTREMELY valid question that I hadn't even thought to consider.

I theorize that the kill wouldnt be outright announced as who did it. but revealed in story? "ants was found with bite marks all over his body" "ants was found looking like Joffrey from game of thrones" etc.

but valid.

 

[Kat]

OOO I LOVE THIS!

I think he's effectively conceded that I'm right and he's not working on the side of the town. but I would love to see him tell us his role.

ants, I know you are guilty, I'm gonna kill you tonight.

but you have every reason to answer this.

if you're wolf or serial killer, you have the opportunity to convince us you're not (or by getting us to think you are the fool)

if you're the fool, you have the opportunity to trick us into believing you're a wolf.

so here's tour moment, don't just tell us your role, tell us your strategy. tell us what you've been thinking, what you've been planning. tell us your exact thoughts. lie, be honest, fib, mix it up, doesn't matter.

tell us your story.

I'm all for this for the entertainment value, but we're not really going to lynch even if he seems like he's not the fool, right? That seems risky for no real benefit.

If you really want to save your potion, I'd rather just leave him to the wolves tonight: if he's not a wolf, we're forcing their hand to kill him (or at least try), because otherwise we'll lynch him tomorrow and there's a 50/50 chance they lose along with us. It would give us a night off from wolves killing townies in that case, which is a nice benefit. However if it's not the fool, then either it's a wolf with an extra night to use their ability, or a serial killer with nothing left to lose, so even that doesn't seem worth the trade off IMO.

The safe thing is for you to kill him with your potion. Assuming you actually have one, of course. Plus making you kill him would confirm you're a townie for sure, which I imagine we're all keen on.

Unless we think he'll be able to do a night action if we don't lynch, even if you kill him tonight? I'm still not totally clear on the whole timing thing of the night phase. If and only if that's the case, I still don't feel lynching today is worth it (1/6 chance of immediately losing), but we may as well wait a night and just lynch tomorrow if he's still alive. It'd save a potion and gives us a 1/3 chance of avoiding a townie kill by the wolves, and the only downside would be that we can't lynch anyone else tomorrow

 

[Cole]

so, to the very first part of your question, as of the day I see things, the only reason NOT to lynch is if somehow we can be certain he's the fool.

you have no reason to trust me yet, but I obviously know I'm town. I also at this point fully believe shortkut is the detective, AND that ants and I would easily be his first detection.

believing those means ants is the enemy to the town full stop.

I am leaning very hard to him specifically being wolf, because if he were the fool he'd be pulling a MASSIVE long game. serial killer is possible, but a few of his comments (I'd have to go back and search) kind of lead me to believe he was protecting others.

so yes, if somehow we can know for sure he's not the fool, then yes, 100% lynch.

 

[Cole]

Why not use the Aura Seer to read one of us? Coleman could be lying, or one of us could be a neutral role, or I could be a wolf. The detective power is so limited, and either one of us could be the fool at this point.

This would mean the Aura Seer outs themselves, but then we have protector roles for that.

this is mostly for @Kat

so this post alone has two conflicting little reads.

suggesting the aura reader read one of us, it won't prove if I'm telling the truth because I'll read as "unknown", but him even suggesting this seems to imply *he* would read as unknown, which is both wolf and serial killer.

but the second half, wanting the aura seer to out themselves screams wolf. if he thinks he's gonna die, he'd wanna do something to help his team, and getting another role to out themselves is a big step in that direction.

I couldn't sleep so hence the post. but this is something I'd like to discuss.

I think if were less than 70/30 on him NOT being fool, we risk the lynch. not only do I save my potion. but the +1 night on the wolves would be huge.

if he's the serial killer, that's one less kill every single day.

we'd want to be more than reasonably certain he's not fool, but it's worth discussing.

 

[Ryan!]

So, two prevailing theories I'm working on.

Number one: Cole, Ants!, and kut are all wolves. They put together this entire spiel of accusing each other and role reveals simply so one of them could be thrown under the bus and clear the other two while the fourth wolf keeps a low profile. It would be a bold strategy, that's for certain. Especially with Cole leading the train on role reveals. Notice the role he revealed isn't a major one and there can be multiples of them, so he can never be called out on it. Entirely possible that kut and Cole agreed to sacrifice Ants! in order to have the both of them clear.

Two: Ants! Is almost certainly a wolf.

Tommy is the Fool.

Kut is being 100% truthful.

Cole is being 100% truthful.

Kat is keeping a low profile and only chiming in with questions and mild corrections. She's posting long statements, but it's really only going after Cole for previous statements in the game (and a bit of pedantry which I always appreciate) which leads me to believe she's being genuine here and is likely a townie who is just trying to work out if a strong player like Cole is being truthful or playing the ultimate manipulation game.

Tubby has only briefly chimed in and hasn't said much of anything except proposing a plan that gets rid of both Cole and I, which will likely be negated by the Medium anyway. Something seems hairy there. I'm not fully convinced he's wolf, but he's creeping up my suspicions list quickly.

Vash hasn't been active but was doing real life stuff or something boring so it makes sense. He's piped in with a few insightful things here and there. Don't have a decent read on him. Same as Dean. Will have to probe further after Mass or something.

I think that about covers it. If theory two is correct, Ants! needs to be roped tomorrow and Tubby needs to be looked into more. Seeing if Vash and Dean are on the same team after this coming night phase wouldn't be a terrible idea.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Vash hasn't been active but was doing real life stuff or something boring so it makes sense. He's piped in with a few insightful things here and there.

Something boring like a Diablo LAN party and hitting credits on Diablo 4. Real life stuff.

The odds that kut/Cole/Ants are all in it together are so astronomical that its almost comical. But I don't want to start another odds discussion...

 

[Ryan!]

Something boring like a Diablo LAN party and hitting credits on Diablo 4. Real life stuff.

The odds that kut/Cole/Ants are all in it together are so astronomical that its almost comical. But I don't want to start another odds discussion...

You have zero idea how helpful that really was.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The odds that I would have ZERO idea how that was helpful...

 

[Ants!]

Wolf aura reads as evil, not unknown. And I suggested it because it would be easier to have another role PROVE my innocence outright rather than convince yall that Coleman with his walls of text has yall bamboozled again. I simply do not have the time to win this argument, so see you guys next wolf game.

 

[Tubby23]

Tubby has only briefly chimed in and hasn't said much of anything except proposing a plan that gets rid of both Cole and I, which will likely be negated by the Medium anyway. Something seems hairy there. I'm not fully convinced he's wolf, but he's creeping up my suspicions list quickly.

Vash hasn't been active but was doing real life stuff or something boring so it makes sense. He's piped in with a few insightful things here and there. Don't have a decent read on him. Same as Dean. Will have to probe further after Mass or something.

I think that about covers it. If theory two is correct, Ants! needs to be roped tomorrow and Tubby needs to be looked into more. Seeing if Vash and Dean are on the same team after this coming night phase wouldn't be a terrible idea.

I'm much keener at this point to see who Ants! comrades are if he is in fact a wolf.

I have no desire for Cole or yourself to be gone yet. I suspect if Cole is right that we can likely be rid of two wolves during the next day phase

 

[Ryan!]

The odds that I would have ZERO idea how that was helpful...

No, just seeing how people react to a math gaff. You can tell a great deal about people just by how they argue and what they focus on.

 

[Zell 17]

yeah, I know what the OP said

but @Zell 17 can you tell us the time day 1 ends and the time night 2 ends please?

Days will end at 9 am and be 36 hours. Nights will end at 9pm and last 12 hours.

 

[Zell 17]

I have some more questions about roles after reading them again (warning, pedantic programmer side coming out):
It says the witch's potions are consumed on use. Cole is interpreting that to mean the protection potion isn't consumed unless the person being protected is attacked. I feel like it could also be read that drinking the potion at all would qualify as "using" it. Which is it?

For all the roles that can protect others and automatically protect themselves, does that mean if they get attacked, they quit protecting the other player, or they save themselves AND the other player? If they already saved someone, do they still protect themselves? It wouldn't matter for just wolves, but with the serial killer, it could come into play. I guess more generally, what does "protects themselves" mean exactly? How can they die if they can save players and automatically protect themselves (besides lynching, I guess)? Does the wolf berserker ability count as one attack for the bodyguard or does he die from it?

Ryan, if I'm reading this correctly, the bodyguard DOES NOT get told who attacked them. That's only the tough guy. The bodyguard gets to live through an extra attack instead.

For the order of night actions mattering: do we have to wait until the night phase starts to officially declare our night actions? If not, how far in advance can we declare them? If someone tries to do an action that's impossible (like they're trying to protect someone who is already dead), what happens? (Night starts at 6 am my time and I'm not a morning person at all, rip.)

Some roles (like detective) don't specify what phase their action takes place. Should we assume always night or can some use those during the day?

Bodyguard and Tough Guy protect themselves and another player. It means that if they are attacked directly by the wolves they don’t immediately die (BG loses one hit, TG gets info and dies at the end of the day).

If a player they are protecting is attacked, it acts identically to the player being attacked directly. So if the BG has already been hit once, and they protect the Aura seer, and the Aura seer is attacked, the bodyguard will die. Aura would live.

As Vash mentioned, if berserk was used on the Aura seer both the bodyguard AND aura seer would die, regardless of whether or not the bodyguard has been hit before.

 

[Zell 17]

I don't trust you, but I can't think of how it'd benefit you to lie in this case, so I believe you. I was only asking to make sure you didn't accidentally waste your potion.

Another question that maybe any experienced player will know: when a kill happens, will we know which role performed it? Say, purely hypothetically, that Cole were the serial killer and pretending to be a witch to cover his murder of Ants tonight. Would that even be possible or would we know whether the serial killer or witch killed him?

In the same vein, do we learn townies' specific roles when they die? At this point, we don't even know who any of the powerful townies are, and they could die before we find out. Knowing which wolves are still around would be super helpful, too.

I know I could PM him, but I figured it'd be better for everyone to be on the same page. Though I guess we'll find out soon anyway.

The gunner and the priest are revealed to everyone when they use their move.

Other killers (marksman, witch, beast hunter, etc) are not revealed. You do find out the manner of the death. Everyone will just get a message like “The Beast Hunters trap has killed XXXX”.

 

[Holly]

Ok, now that I've had some sleep...
If the villagers abstain again this game it seems riskier than last, since there's not just the wolves to worry about. There's already a LOT of discussion - 14 pages worth! - and by nature of the game not everyone is telling the truth. People deadass claiming villager roles day 1 is sus AF to me.

I learned my lesson last game. Voting Cole.

 

[Cole]

Ok, now that I've had some sleep...
If the villagers abstain again this game it seems riskier than last, since there's not just the wolves to worry about. There's already a LOT of discussion - 14 pages worth! - and by nature of the game not everyone is telling the truth. People deadass claiming villager roles day 1 is sus AF to me.

I learned my lesson last game. Voting Cole.

and another one climbs up the list, not for the vote of me, but for insisting on an as arbitrary vote.

let's say you are a member of the town, I find it interesting you'd consider lynching me when even my biggest detractors have had to operate under the assumption that I'm a townie. and I've pretty much outright told you ants is the enemy.

makes me wonder if you're trying to save him.

ants, Holly, Tommy, fool

my top 4 suspects in no particular order

 

[Cole]

Wolf aura reads as evil, not unknown. And I suggested it because it would be easier to have another role PROVE my innocence outright rather than convince yall that Coleman with his walls of text has yall bamboozled again. I simply do not have the time to win this argument, so see you guys next wolf game.

yes, but as established, there a every chance you're fool or serial killer. both of which read as unknown. you'd only mention it if you knew you'd read thst way.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Can I assume by the first post that there are 4 wolves?

 

[Holly]

and another one climbs up the list, not for the vote of me, but for insisting on an as arbitrary vote.

let's say you are a member of the town, I find it interesting you'd consider lynching me when even my biggest detractors have had to operate under the assumption that I'm a townie. and I've pretty much outright told you ants is the enemy.

makes me wonder if you're trying to save him.

ants, Holly, Tommy, fool

my top 4 suspects in no particular order

Your biggest detractor is that you are lying about being the witch. And I realize that paints a target on my back, but I also realize that if you kill me, I will be proven correct.

 

[Zell 17]

Can I assume by the first post that there are 4 wolves?

Yes

 

[Cole]

Your biggest detractor is that you are lying about being the witch. And I realize that paints a target on my back, but I also realize that if you kill me, I will be proven correct.

well, you're wrong. so there's that.

I'm killing Ants, and I only get the one death potion use, so that's fine.

but even if I did choose to kill you, that doesn't prove you right because there are several roles that can kill at night.

another person speaking in absolutes about things that aren't absolute.

I said I rarely lie in games, and this is a reason why. you've just said, outright, I am lying. not "you think I might be" not "I think it's a work" but "you are lying."

and since I'm NOT lying. that makes it look pretty bad for you. becsuse at this juncture, only a wolf knows I'm not one of them for certain.

 

[Holly]

well, you're wrong. so there's that.

I'm killing Ants, and I only get the one death potion use, so that's fine.

but even if I did choose to kill you, that doesn't prove you right because there are several roles that can kill at night.

another person speaking in absolutes about things that aren't absolute.

I said I rarely lie in games, and this is a reason why. you've just said, outright, I am lying. not "you think I might be" not "I think it's a work" but "you are lying."

and since I'm NOT lying. that makes it look pretty bad for you. becsuse at this juncture, only a wolf knows I'm not one of them for certain.

Except - and I realize you may be trying to flush me out - I am the real witch. So if I die, that will be revealed.

I can say with 100% certainty, Cole is lying about being the witch.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Cole, this is a game about deception. No one has any reason to believe a single word you've said.

 

[Cole]

Except - and I realize you may be trying to flush me out - I am the real witch. So if I die, that will be revealed.

I can say with 100% certainty, Cole is lying about being the witch.

hey fun part if you didn't read the rules.

there can be more than one witch.

so now you either look guilty or VERY foolish.

 

[VashTheStampede]

There can be multiple witches though?

 

[VashTheStampede]

Y'all should form a coven

 

[Cole]

Cole, this is a game about deception. No one has any reason to believe a single word you've said.

yup, that's true. except for the part where if I'm lying, and I kill ants tonight, and he's not what I say, shortkut is lying. if we then lynch him, and he wasn't lying, then you know I was.

it's a no lose situation on day 1. you will get 100% guaranteed information as a result of this set of actions.

 

[Holly]

There can be multiple witches though?

I'm just an idiot, then. I assumed there could only be one of each role.

Heh, Day 1 and I've already royally fucked up. Damn it.

 

[shortkut]

Yea there can be multiple witches, which is stupid

@VashTheStampede is suspicious to me by only really knowing what the berserker wolf can do. Makes me think that is his role and he has the correct info my clarifying with zell, and like the rest of us, only did a cursory read of the rest of the first post

 

[VashTheStampede]

Bro I was trying to stop us from losing 2 roles lol

 

[Ryan!]

Yea there can be multiple witches, which is stupid

@VashTheStampede is suspicious to me by only really knowing what the berserker wolf can do. Makes me think that is his role and he has the correct info my clarifying with zell, and like the rest of us, only did a cursory read of the rest of the first post

Hey now, I did a read of the entire first post. Hence why I brought up the Berkerer Wolf first, noticed it was only a one time thing, pointed out exactly how to counter it and thus waste it, and went for a strategy that 100% gets us a Wolf.

 

[Cole]

I'm just an idiot, then. I assumed there could only be one of each role.

Heh, Day 1 and I've already royally fucked up. Damn it.

for what it's worth, I'm willing to err on the side of an honest mistake. I also didn't fully read the rules, and accused some thing of shortkut thst couldn't be true.

I don't think it necessarily increases your guilt.

but it's something I'll keep my eye on.

Yea there can be multiple witches, which is stupid

@VashTheStampede is suspicious to me by only really knowing what the berserker wolf can do. Makes me think that is his role and he has the correct info my clarifying with zell, and like the rest of us, only did a cursory read of the rest of the first post

I disagree. Vash is the type to read the rules. and probably even reread them as things started to develop to see how the plan would unfold.

not saying definitively you're wrong, but I don't think it's extra suspicious. "actually having read the rules" does not a guilty person make.

 

[shortkut]

for what it's worth, I'm willing to err on the side of an honest mistake. I also didn't fully read the rules, and accused some thing of shortkut thst couldn't be true.

I don't think it necessarily increases your guilt.

but it's something I'll keep my eye on.

I disagree. Vash is the type to read the rules. and probably even reread them as things started to develop to see how the plan would unfold.

not saying definitively you're wrong, but I don't think it's extra suspicious. "actually having read the rules" does not a guilty person make.

My point is he only knew the rules about the berserker wolf, not anything else. If he knew all the rules, then it wouldn’t be suspicious

 

[Cole]

My point is he only knew the rules about the berserker wolf, not anything else. If he knew all the rules, then it wouldn’t be suspicious

how do you know he didn't know all? he just pointed out in parallel to me that we could have multiple witches. he at least knows a couple

 

[Ryan!]

This is a pretty basic chess trap. If I protect Cole and the wolves end up killing him with the guarantee, thus getting rid of both myself and Cole, then we have both of us covered by the fact the Medium has a resurrection.

 

[shortkut]

how do you know he didn't know all? he just pointed out in parallel to me that we could have multiple witches. he at least knows a couple

I thought he was asking about the amount of witches, not stating there can be more. Like ants, I have a difficult time with reading

 

[VashTheStampede]

The main rule I am not clear on is exactly how many wolves there are.

Not exactly a damning thing to not be clear on IMO

 

[shortkut]

This is a pretty basic chess trap. If I protect Cole and the wolves end up killing him with the guarantee, thus getting rid of both myself and Cole, then we have both of us covered by the fact the Medium has a resurrection.

@Zell 17 important question: once someone is resurrected, what happens with their abilities? Does the bodyguard need to be attacked 2 more times to die again? Does the witch get 2 more potions?

 

[Cole]

This is a pretty basic chess trap. If I protect Cole and the wolves end up killing him with the guarantee, thus getting rid of both myself and Cole, then we have both of us covered by the fact the Medium has a resurrection.

I've also named some people with high levels of suspicion, and once I'm revealed, the town has more reason to believe it.

I thought he was asking about the amount of witches, not stating there can be more. Like ants, I have a difficult time with reading

no, it was a rhetorical question, as in "your statement is false because there can be more than one witch".

The main rule I am not clear on is exactly how many wolves there are.

Not exactly a damning thing to not be clear on IMO

which is reasonable, there were 4 wolf roles listed, but who's to say they weren't doubled or had a wolf with no bonus perk.

 

[shortkut]

The main rule I am not clear on is exactly how many wolves there are.

Not exactly a damning thing to not be clear on IMO

I went back and reread some of your posts, less suspicious now… but I’m watching you

 

[Fool's Requiem]

The main rule I am not clear on is exactly how many wolves there are.

Not exactly a damning thing to not be clear on IMO

Based on the initial post, there are 10 townies, 4 wolves, a Fool, and a Serial Killer.

3 of the 10 wolves get a random role selected from the second list of roles, which means it's possible that there could be 4 witches, as silly as that is.

 

[Zell 17]

@Zell 17 important question: once someone is resurrected, what happens with their abilities? Does the bodyguard need to be attacked 2 more times to die again? Does the witch get 2 more potions?

No. Once consumed they are consumed for ever. Bodyguard would be revived with one hit, unless they never lost a hit to begin with because they were killed by the berserk/errant witch/gunner/ whatever.

 

[Cole]

oh Fool is typing.

fool took the chance to jump on Holly's "no trust" post. that makes him a bit more suspicious.

or maybe he just really wants to lynch me.

but as I said, this plan of ours guarantees a bad guy killed. and 2 of the 3 choices *help* the wolves. hell, in one scenario the wolves get a ton of help.

if ants dies and is a good guy, you guys can lynch either shortkut or myself. if the first person lynch IS who they say they are, then the OTHER one is lying.

they get two townies dead without lifting a finger.

or they get the fool or the serial killer off the board.

OR ants is a wolf. and they wanna stop thst.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Based on the initial post, there are 10 townies, 4 wolves, a Fool, and a Serial Killer.

3 of the 10 wolves get a random role selected from the second list of roles, which means it's possible that there could be 4 witches, as silly as that is.

Silly, maybe. Fuckin hilarious and awesome, YES

 

[Fool's Requiem]

fool took the chance to jump on Holly's "no trust" post. that makes him a bit more suspicious.

I posted "trust no one" a few pages ago, dude.