Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1

[Cole]

I posted "trust no one" a few pages ago, dude.

and doubled down when Holly was incorrectly positive I was lying.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

and doubled down when Holly was incorrectly positive I was lying.

You also posted early on that you were voting shortkut while be adament that you were not going to be changing your vote, but then changed your vote to abstain anyways.

How can you expect anyone to trust you?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

*while being adament

 

[Ants!]

yes, but as established, there a every chance you're fool or serial killer. both of which read as unknown. you'd only mention it if you knew you'd read thst way.

Or I’d mention it if you’re lying. What can a wolf do when people start outing their roles (like kut did)? Pick an random unprovable townie role. And what better than to pick from the list that gets three extra random roles?

I do know this much for sure, people. If anyone is a safe lynching, Coleman is. He’s trying way too damn hard to be playing a role that wins by lynching.

On that basis alone, unless something changes, voting Coleman.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Man, if Cole is the Fool, gg everyone.

 

[Cole]

You also posted early on that you were voting shortkut while be adament that you were not going to be changing your vote, but then changed your vote to abstain anyways.

How can you expect anyone to trust you?

here is the first valid thing you've said.

this is definitely a reason to suspect me more than your average suspicion of me.

but I did explain it. when I posted it, I was 100% sold on lynching shortkut in an effort to either kill a bad guy, or stop a townie from derailing the game the way YOU AND I HELPED HIM do in the last game. after that post though, lots changed. I found out the fool ends everyone's game, which is not the interpretation I had. shortkut also revealed his role, and while yes, he could be lying, but even if he is, we'll know by tomorrow and he'll be a free lynch, and he knows that.

I absolutely did double back on my sure fire vote after being presented with new evidence. I'm a scientist, I change with new information.

 

[shortkut]

@Zell 17 vote count update please

@Ants! and @Fool's Requiem are clearly wolves/dumdums

 

[Ants!]

Side note: completely forgot about the berserker role. Scratch my previous idea, we’d just lose the aura seer plus a protector.

 

[Ants!]

@Zell 17 vote count update please

@Ants! and @Fool's Requiem are clearly wolves/dumdums

How? All you have to go on is that Coleman and I are not on the same team. And judging by how easily you were manipulated last game, add yours to the list of dum dums

 

[Cole]

Or I’d mention it if you’re lying. What can a wolf do when people start outing their roles (like kut did)? Pick an random unprovable townie role. And what better than to pick from the list that gets three extra random roles?

I do know this much for sure, people. If anyone is a safe lynching, Coleman is. He’s trying way too damn hard to be playing a role that wins by lynching.

On that basis alone, unless something changes, voting Coleman.

my role is not unprovable.

in fact, in the initial PM with Zell about my role, he said "tip: use your kill potion as a means to claim your role", meaning I can kill with my potion to prove I am exactly who in say I am.

but considering you're drinking it tonight, your only way to save yourself is to lynch me *now*.

and should you (and Holly assuming she doesn't change her vote) end up bandwagon lynching me, you both die anyway.

there is no lose here for a member of the town. we will get grade A Intel from this series of events, even if I am lying.

 

[Ryan!]

Side note: completely forgot about the berserker role. Scratch my previous idea, we’d just lose the aura seer plus a protector.

Not really. Again, their ability is wasted entirely, and we have a guaranteed resurrection from the Medium. It's almost imperative the Medium use that power after a guaranteed kill, but they wouldn't really have a way of knowing that unless two people are offed. Hence my statement of me absolutely protecting Cole. If both of us are killed, we know the Berserker wasted their power, the Medium can safely rez one of us, and we have far more information (Cole and I are both townies, skortkut's read was correct and we can kill Ants!)

 

[Cole]

How? All you have to go on is that Coleman and I are not on the same team. And judging by how easily you were manipulated last game, add yours to the list of dum dums

Ants.

state your role. everyone in this game has a role.

WHAT IS YOURS? you were asked before and carefully ignored it.

shortkut knows you're a bad guy becsuse I stated my role and have no reason yo lie, all I did was out myself and make me a target to wolves.

so what's YOUR role?

 

[Ants!]

my role is not unprovable.

in fact, in the initial PM with Zell about my role, he said "tip: use your kill potion as a means to claim your role", meaning I can kill with my potion to prove I am exactly who in say I am.

but considering you're drinking it tonight, your only way to save yourself is to lynch me *now*.

and should you (and Holly assuming she doesn't change her vote) end up bandwagon lynching me, you both die anyway.

there is no lose here for a member of the town. we will get grade A Intel from this series of events, even if I am lying.

Makes no sense. If we lynch you, your role is revealed and if you’re telling the truth then that does not save me because there are multiple kill roles from townies.

 

[shortkut]

How? All you have to go on is that Coleman and I are not on the same team. And judging by how easily you were manipulated last game, add yours to the list of dum dums

He has also described his interactions with zell in almost the same way as mine. That lends credence to his claims

 

[Fool's Requiem]

@Zell 17 vote count update please

@Ants! and @Fool's Requiem are clearly wolves/dumdums

You claiming that Ants and Coleman are not on the same team doesn't mean either me or Ants are wolves.

Dumdums is already a guarantee.

 

[Cole]

Makes no sense. If we lynch you, your role is revealed and if you’re telling the truth then that does not save me because there are multiple kill roles from townies.

you're right, it doesn't save you. you have every reason yo desperation vote me. what I'm telling the REST OF THE TOWN is that if they go along with you, they lose a townie, but you die anyway.

it is lose lose for members of the town.

 

[Cole]

You claiming that Ants and Coleman are not on the same team doesn't mean either me or Ants are wolves.

Dumdums is already a guarantee.

no, your posts in this thread means you two are both bad guys. probably working together.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I've never seen that man in my life.

 

[Ants!]

Ants.

state your role. everyone in this game has a role.

WHAT IS YOURS? you were asked before and carefully ignored it.

shortkut knows you're a bad guy becsuse I stated my role and have no reason yo lie, all I did was out myself and make me a target to wolves.

so what's YOUR role?

This is what I’m talking about. Does it even matter what I say? I can claim any role, I can’t prove it before night any more than you can. I conceded ages ago. Just going to unsubscribe. Have fun yall.

 

[Holly]

Fuck, forgot to change my vote.

Ants.

Reading Coleman's posts I think that he is another witch because he verbatim quotes from the DM Zell sent out for that role. I just have a *lot* of egg on my face right now.

 

[Cole]

This is what I’m talking about. Does it even matter what I say? I can claim any role, I can’t prove it before night any more than you can. I conceded ages ago. Just going to unsubscribe. Have fun yall.

don't be like that!

if this is all above board, you're going to die to an extremely unfortunate set of circumstances. but we've all been there.

I said in a post last night, tell us your story, make it up. convince us. even if you die, if you're a wolf, you could help them with your post.

 

[Cole]

Fuck, forgot to change my vote.

Ants.

Reading Coleman's posts I think that he is another witch because he verbatim quotes from the DM Zell sent out for that role. I just have a *lot* of egg on my face right now.

I respect you admitting the egg on your fsce. it happens, like I said, I also made an erroneous post in this game becsuse of not reading the OP.

but I will say, changing to a vote for ants now is... odd. we have no confirmation he's not the fool.

 

[Ryan!]

I respect you admitting the egg on your fsce. it happens, like I said, I also made an erroneous post in this game becsuse of not reading the OP.

but I will say, changing to a vote for ants now is... odd. we have no confirmation he's not the fool.

I'm not fully convinced Tommy isn't the Fool.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I think lynching Ants is playing with fire. I think we're in a good spot to get a TON of information tonight and maybe we should just sit tight?

 

[Cole]

I'm not fully convinced Tommy isn't the Fool.

I could see it.

I think lynching Ants is playing with fire. I think we're in a good spot to get a TON of information tonight and maybe we should just sit tight?

I agree in theory. my only hangup is if somehow we can suss out if he's the fool, we could save a lot of time and abilities by lynching him instead

 

[Holly]

I thought Coleman and Ants aren't on the same team, Coleman quoted the Witch PM, Ants is on another team, thus Ants is *most likely* a wolf.

Playing with fire? Yes. Perhaps a bit much for now. And I know abstaining with suss out more information based on what happens during the night. I guess I will abstain but I'm leery of changing my vote again because it looks wishy-washy.

God I suck at wolf. I love playing it though.

 

[shortkut]

Ants is either wolf, fool, or serial killer. Only one role can benefit the town. The other two do not.

 

[Cole]

I thought Coleman and Ants aren't on the same team, Coleman quoted the Witch PM, Ants is on another team, thus Ants is *most likely* a wolf.

Playing with fire? Yes. Perhaps a bit much for now. And I know abstaining with suss out more information based on what happens during the night. I guess I will abstain but I'm leery of changing my vote again because it looks wishy-washy.

God I suck at wolf. I love playing it though.

yeah, this is also my logic, but you're forgetting that this could also mean he's serial killer or fool too.

and if he's fool and we lynch him, we lose.

which is why me killing him tonight is the safest play.

but I wanted to open the discussion about lynching him because it earns us a day, and saves some abilities.

 

[Cole]

for the record btw.

I quoted the witch post verbatim in at least one (maybe 2) posts.

there's only 2 people that would know that. zell, and another witch.

so holly IS another witch, and I'm reasonably confident in this statement.

 

[Holly]

yeah, this is also my logic, but you're forgetting that this could also mean he's serial killer or fool too.

and if he's fool and we lynch him, we lose.

which is why me killing him tonight is the safest play.

but I wanted to open the discussion about lynching him because it earns us a day, and saves some abilities.

Makes sense. If he is the fool and dies at night the game goes on. Seems safer than lynching, but does cost a potion.

 

[Cole]

for the record btw.

I quoted the witch post verbatim in at least one (maybe 2) posts.

there's only 2 people that would know that. zell, and another witch.

so holly IS another witch, and I'm reasonably confident in this statement.

edit: obviously no one has to trust me on this right now. but should I die at any point, say tonight, remember thst holly is innocent.

 

[Zell 17]

Vote count (7 required to lynch):

Cole - 2 (Ants!, Fool's Requiem)

No vote / Abstain - Everyone else.

I'd like people to stop sharing anything sent by me via DM, whether it's your initial role PM or a clarification on how a role works. To me it's barely different than screenshotting the DM in order to prove yourself.

 

[Cole]

Vote count (7 required to lynch):

Cole - 2 (Ants!, Fool's Requiem)

No vote / Abstain - Everyone else.

I'd like people to stop sharing anything sent by me via DM, whether it's your initial role PM or a clarification on how a role works. To me it's barely different than screenshotting the DM in order to prove yourself.

if that's your choice, then that's your choice. but I think it is different, other than other people with that role, no one knows if that's even the truth.

hell even NOW this could be a masterful plan by Holly and I. no one would have even known that until you just basically came in and confirmed it for everyone... so...

over rulifying this game is a mistake. the roles are SO much content to have to deal with, telling us exactly what we can and can't say in the thread add a an unnecessary level of complication imo.

but again, you effectively just confirmed thst holly and I are being truthful...

 

[shortkut]

I'd like people to stop sharing anything sent by me via DM, whether it's your initial role PM or a clarification on how a role works. To me it's barely different than screenshotting the DM in order to prove yourself.

That’s unfortunate. To me that is showing your credentials. Anyone can claim to be the detective, but only I have a PI license hanging in my office, so that shows I’m the detective not someone else. It’s how I can prove my innocence

 

[Zell 17]

if that's your choice, then that's your choice. but I think it is different, other than other people with that role, no one knows if that's even the truth.

hell even NOW this could be a masterful plan by Holly and I. no one would have even known that until you just basically came in and confirmed it for everyone... so...

over rulifying this game is a mistake. the roles are SO much content to have to deal with, telling us exactly what we can and can't say in the thread add a an unnecessary level of complication imo.

but again, you effectively just confirmed thst holly and I are being truthful...

I haven't even read far enough to get to whatever you and Holly having been talking about. I was referring to shortkut's claims on who the detective can investigate, your claims on who the witch can protect, etc.

You can say or claim anything you want. I'd just rather not have "Here's how this works because Zell told me this". Either you are telling the truth and it provides evidence that you are who you say you are, or you are spreading misinformation about how a role works that I need to correct, thus outing you as an evil. Either way I'm put into a box.

Confusing villagers on how the roles work is outside of the scope of the game IMO, because most of the players are new to these types of roles.

 

[Cole]

yes, I understand your concern, but I have two faults with it.

one, the roles are complicated enough as it is on their own, you offered to clarify roles in DM which is also not in the spirit of the game, because that also leaves townies in the dark.

two: saying it now, mid game, even if you claim you "hadn't read it all yet" outs me as being truthful, and adds motivation for the wolves to kill me

I don't think it's fair to add rules mid game like thst. I apologize if you feel like we exploited a loophole, but it was your loophole.

it can be corrected after that. you've influenced the game now.

 

[Cole]

(this post is separate to the conversation with Zell)

I said I'd be protecting shortkut tonight per our original plan. but information changing again, I am considering protecting holly tonight instead of shortkut. she's at risk now if Ryan protects me...

I'm not sure which way I will fall.

 

[Zell 17]

There's a balance right. I don't want to go into the minutiae of the mechanics of exactly how every role works in the opening post because it's already long enough. So I'm happy to answer questions like "How do I use this ability" or whatever via PM. Some questions I won't have foreseen either.

And hey, this is the first game of this type. There are going to be some kinks and bugs. I didn't expressly forbid screenshotting the DMs I sent and posting them either, and maybe I should have. You didn't do anything wrong here, I'm just trying to issue a little course correction before the game actually CAN be ruined.

 

[Cole]

There's a balance right. I don't want to go into the minutiae of the mechanics of exactly how every role works in the opening post because it's already long enough. So I'm happy to answer questions like "How do I use this ability" or whatever via PM. Some questions I won't have foreseen either.

And hey, this is the first game of this type. There are going to be some kinks and bugs. I didn't expressly forbid screenshotting the DMs I sent and posting them either, and maybe I should have. You didn't do anything wrong here, I'm just trying to issue a little course correction before the game actually CAN be ruined.

again, I completely understand your position and reasoning. if it were in the rules, id have been completely fine with it. it is a new game, and everyone (you included) could have missed some thing.

but posting it *now*, even if you claim you haven't read the entire thread, namely the holly and I part, DOES effectively out me.

I am being 100% honest in this thread. but my safety from the wolves or other malicious killers relies on the fact that no one but me KNOWS I'm being honest.

they now have information from YOU that says I am.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

e, I'm just trying to issue a little course correction before the game actually CAN be ruined.

Assuming Cole had been telling the truth, the game has already been ruined.

 

[Cole]

Assuming Cole had been telling the truth, the game has already been ruined.

I can't tell if you're blaming me for "ruining" the game...

 

[shortkut]

Proposed alternative:

We vote to lynch @Fool's Requiem today and kill @Ants! overnight

 

[Cole]

Proposed alternative:

We vote to lynch @Fool's Requiem today and kill @Ants! overnight

idk the man has fool in his name.

also: YOU are still the dumbdumb if you think random voting day 1 is helpful. I suspect fool too (and also it will be a really funny example for Ryan if both ants and fool are wolves again) but we have no reasonable way to believe he's not the fool.

 

[Ryan!]

Proposed alternative:

We vote to lynch @Fool's Requiem today and kill @Ants! overnight

Considering how desperate he's been to cover Ants and deflect at every single opportunity, it isn't the worst idea in the world and worth discussing. I'm still about 70% sure Tommy is the Fool, so I don't think we're entirely at risk of hitting that one yet.

 

[Ryan!]

idk the man has fool in his name.

also: YOU are still the dumbdumb if you think random voting day 1 is helpful. I suspect fool too (and also it will be a really funny example for Ryan if both ants and fool are wolves again) but we have no reasonable way to believe he's not the fool.

See, this is how I was positive you were innocent before Holly 100% confirmed both of you were Witches.

 

[Cole]

Considering how desperate he's been to cover Ants and deflect at every single opportunity, it isn't the worst idea in the world and worth discussing. I'm still about 70% sure Tommy is the Fool, so I don't think we're entirely at risk of hitting that one yet.

can I ask you why so convinced Tommy is the fool?

 

[Ryan!]

can I ask you why so convinced Tommy is the fool?

Hold on, let me go digging around again.

 

[shortkut]

idk the man has fool in his name.

also: YOU are still the dumbdumb if you think random voting day 1 is helpful. I suspect fool too (and also it will be a really funny example for Ryan if both ants and fool are wolves again) but we have no reasonable way to believe he's not the fool.

Considering how desperate he's been to cover Ants and deflect at every single opportunity, it isn't the worst idea in the world and worth discussing. I'm still about 70% sure Tommy is the Fool, so I don't think we're entirely at risk of hitting that one yet.

This is not a normal day 1. It seems very likely he is in league with ants. That only makes sense if they are wolves. Ants has already pulled the “I might be the fool” card, so we are operating under the assumption that only he out of the two has a chance of being the fool

 

[Cole]

This is not a normal day 1. It seems very likely he is in league with ants. That only makes sense if they are wolves. Ants has already pulled the “I might be the fool” card, so we are operating under the assumption that only he out of the two has a chance of being the fool

I agree it's not a normal day 1, and I think we could find a lynch here.

but I don't think we can operate on the assumption ants is the fool.

 

[shortkut]

I agree it's not a normal day 1, and I think we could find a lynch here.

but I don't think we can operate on the assumption ants is the fool.

We have two strong suspects. We should take a shot at lynching one of them. Who knows when we will feel this strongly about a candidate to lunch again? One to lynch and one to kill at night… or you and @Holly can each kill one at night and we abstain now