Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1

[Fool's Requiem]

Either I keel silent and I die, or I state my role, and I die.

Voting me also does not end the game, but will reduce the chances of the townies winning.

That should be more than enough information for you.

 

[shortkut]

There's a townie role that is unknown, too.

If you’re beasthunterand use your traps in yourself every night the wolves can’t kill you

 

[Fool's Requiem]

If you’re beasthunterand use your traps in yourself every night the wolves can’t kill you

I wasn't suggesting that. Again, if the wolves know my role, I am guaranteed to die. Beastmaster is not that role.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I'm fucked regardless. I was hoping to go a little further than round one.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Have we decided who kut is checking tonight?

Could check Fool's against, say, Cole?

 

[Ants!]

I played the game. I lost. Sometimes you’re dealt a bad hand, to use a phrase for all you poker players. I’m not trying to be a bad sport, that just is what it is.

shortkut checked us both, and you outed yourself with proof that you’re the witch, what do you expect me to do with that? I’m just busy and don’t have time for a super long argument that I can’t win.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Have we decided who kut is checking tonight?

Could check Fool's against, say, Cole?

It was already decided that I'm dead.

 

[Ants!]

Literally all I can do is NOT answer your question about what my role is and leave you guessing. So I’ll go with that. Have a fun game, can’t wait to play the next one

 

[VashTheStampede]

It was already decided that I'm dead.

You're claiming a powerful townie role, I'm just trying to make sure we don't flippantly eliminate that role without doing our due diligence.

But you don't even want to fight?

Feels like maybe we got wolves where we want em.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

The wolves are licking their chops at the chaos you guys have caused.

 

[shortkut]

The wolves are licking their chops at the chaos you guys have caused.

You’re either a wolf or you suck at this game. If you’re not a wolf, convince us and we can update the plan

 

[Cole]

Either I keel silent and I die, or I state my role, and I die.

Voting me also does not end the game, but will reduce the chances of the townies winning.

That should be more than enough information for you.

it is not. nothing is set in stone and if you can convince us you're worth saving, the plans will fucking change. you're losing your last chance to fight.

I wasn't suggesting that. Again, if the wolves know my role, I am guaranteed to die. Beastmaster is not that role.

nothing is guaranteed.

I'm fucked regardless. I was hoping to go a little further than round one.

then FIGHT.

Have we decided who kut is checking tonight?

Could check Fool's against, say, Cole?

if we're not confident on fools by the end of this day, I'm comfortable with that.

I played the game. I lost. Sometimes you’re dealt a bad hand, to use a phrase for all you poker players. I’m not trying to be a bad sport, that just is what it is.

shortkut checked us both, and you outed yourself with proof that you’re the witch, what do you expect me to do with that? I’m just busy and don’t have time for a super long argument that I can’t win.

to a degree I can respect this. but prior to zell (and even after) there isn't 100% proof I'm being honest. I wanted to see you fight. but if there's a time constraint, I get it.

It was already decided that I'm dead.

plans. can. change. I'm positive on Ants, I am not on you. PLAY THE GAME man. fight back, put in your best fucking effort.

You're claiming a powerful townie role, I'm just trying to make sure we don't flippantly eliminate that role without doing our due diligence.

But you don't even want to fight?

Feels like maybe we got wolves where we want em.

the not wanting to fight is convincing me more than anything else he's said.

The wolves are licking their chops at the chaos you guys have caused.

of course. but last game you saw what chaos can do if you're a wolf.

but what you're forgetting is a well orchestrated town can fuel AND FEED off the chaos too.

last game we gave the town all the chances in the world to figure it out, they did not.

that doesn't mean we can't.

 

[Dean]

I read through everything again (Jesus you guys).

I originally picked up on Ants! saying "foolish" and similar words in his post, but it appears that was just trolling since he practically admitted to being a wolf in his most recent post... That being said, I'm still very paranoid lol. The Fool role adds a whole different element to this. I don't want the game to end after one day because someone convinced us to lynch them. I think, even though there are 4 wolves and other potentially dangerous roles, I don't want to risk killing the Fool on day one.

It would appear that everyone is right and Fool's Requiem and Ants! are both highly suspect.

I'm having a hard time following the game with 21 freaking pages, but I've basically surmised that shortkut summarized a plan of attacks/checks/protects, and Cole is a witch, Holly is a witch, shortkut is a detective, Fool's is acting like a Doctor or something, and Vash has been active but non-committal.

I guess I'm keeping my Abstain vote after all of the chaos. I don't want the game to end on day one because we rushed to lynch. If everyone is telling the truth, we can review shortkut's plan and see what happens tonight. We will potentially out one or more players for being full of crap.

I will have limited availability today since it is my niece's birthday party, so please don't take my inactivity as guilt lol. I didn't expect the game to start until early next week, so I suck. I will try to be more active in the days to come, no promises since I'll be back to work for a week before taking another week of vacation time.

I would just encourage everyone to be careful. Ants! is probably just a wolf, since he outed himself and kind of hinted at rage quitting, but I would hate to see us take out the Fool on the very first day... or any day.

 

[Ryan!]

If Fool was a powerful townie as he claims to be, it would be more valuable to protect him with three guaranteed protections and a guaranteed resurrection as well. We would get rid of two wolves almost certainly in our little gambit while only having to sac one piece after winning the other back.

 

[Ants!]

Two corrections:

1. I never admitted to being a wolf. Roll those dice if you like.

2. I didn’t out myself. Coleman and shortkut outed themselves and revealed I’m not on the same team as the witch.

Coleman wants me to make a huge case that he and Holly are wolves that made up the DM that Zell sent them and that Zell didn’t technically confirm that they were his words, but eff that. That’s a LOOOOT of work for something I know won’t work. Lol

 

[Dean]

By take out, I mean lynch, obviously. One of you night killers can take the fool out with your poisonous potions or whatever.

 

[Cole]

Two corrections:

1. I never admitted to being a wolf. Roll those dice if you like.

2. I didn’t out myself. Coleman and shortkut outed themselves and revealed I’m not on the same team as the witch.

Coleman wants me to make a huge case that he and Holly are wolves that made up the DM that Zell sent them and that Zell didn’t technically confirm that they were his words, but eff that. That’s a LOOOOT of work for something I know won’t work. Lol

you're right, and it is a lot of work, and it's a steep hill to climb. and especially since you have 325 kids, I get not having the time to fight back on it.

I just wish you would.

 

[Ants!]

Fair enough. And thanks.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Coleman wants me to make a huge case that he and Holly are wolves that made up the DM that Zell sent them

I... didn't even consider that... I just automatically assumed Holly was telling the truth for some reason...

 

[Dean]

Why not use the Aura Seer to read one of us? Coleman could be lying, or one of us could be a neutral role, or I could be a wolf. The detective power is so limited, and either one of us could be the fool at this point.

This would mean the Aura Seer outs themselves, but then we have protector roles for that.

Two corrections:

1. I never admitted to being a wolf. Roll those dice if you like.

2. I didn’t out myself. Coleman and shortkut outed themselves and revealed I’m not on the same team as the witch.

Coleman wants me to make a huge case that he and Holly are wolves that made up the DM that Zell sent them and that Zell didn’t technically confirm that they were his words, but eff that. That’s a LOOOOT of work for something I know won’t work. Lol

I will give you some credit. You have been consistently telling people to check more thoroughly. I guess Cole outed himself as a witch and shortkut as the detective, technically, but your lack of fighting back (even with the self-admitted time constraints) does make it seem sus.

I'm not saying you're not a wolf, but I don't want to take the chance on you being the fool either. My role has no investigative/seer capabilities, so I'm trying to go off the group.

What would be hilarious is if shortkut is a wolf and knew Cole was innocent and Ants! was a fellow wolf who agreed to take one for the team since he's busy IRL. I could come up with several wild theories, but I'm going to play it fairly straightforward right now and hope the dialogue so far has been as well.

 

[Dean]

I'm probably not giving Cole and Holly enough credit. I just don't think they would've come up with the crazy plan on day one to make up the role descriptions, although I wouldn't put it past Cole, I guess. I'm serious, he is on a different level in these games. My mind doesn't work that way when it comes to this stuff, but I love playing Wolf/Mafia and have missed the insanity lol

 

[Dean]

For the record, since I haven't played one of these games in like a decade or something, I'm playing this game very straight, as bland as that is. I'm just not going to go revealing the specifics of my role, because I agree that it can kind of ruin the game. I know for some, it's considered next level gameplay. I'm not mad about it, and it has made the first day way more interesting. I just don't want the whole game to devolve into it (although I guess Zell pretty much forbade it a while back anyway).

 

[Ants!]

For the record, since I haven't played one of these games in like a decade or something, I'm playing this game very straight, as bland as that is. I'm just not going to go revealing the specifics of my role, because I agree that it can kind of ruin the game. I know for some, it's considered next level gameplay. I'm not mad about it, and it has made the first day way more interesting. I just don't want the whole game to devolve into it (although I guess Zell pretty much forbade it a while back anyway).

I do think that outing your own role is a lame way to play, it seems kind of weak to use that instead of your arguing skills. But I guess the flip side of that coin is that someone can always be lying about what role they have, and there is some merit to that, I will admit.

 

[Zell 17]

I just don't want the whole game to devolve into it (although I guess Zell pretty much forbade it a while back anyway).

Clarifying here. You can absolutely claim your role, or another role, or whatever. I just don't want anything copy pasted from DMs I send, or "Zell gave me this clarification about my role" or whatever.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I'm just not going to go revealing the specifics of my role, because I agree that it can kind of ruin the game. I know for some, it's considered next level gameplay. I'm not mad about it, and it has made the first day way more interesting. I just don't want the whole game to devolve into it (...)

This is my viewpoint 100%

 

[Cole]

I... didn't even consider that... I just automatically assumed Holly was telling the truth for some reason...

this was my point in the first game, this is my point now. I get feeling "bullied" by the role reveals. but this game is different every time and that's why people love it.

not being a good liar is a good quality, but for these games, you have to be capable of it. creating a believable story can convince people were wrong. I would have LOVED it if someone gave holly and I the credit to plan that out.

there are always stories you can tell

What would be hilarious is if shortkut is a wolf and knew Cole was innocent and Ants! was a fellow wolf who agreed to take one for the team since he's busy IRL. I could come up with several wild theories, but I'm going to play it fairly straightforward right now and hope the dialogue so far has been as well.

this would be awesome. if shortkut is playing me, I'll tip my hat and take my loss. but if he is playing me, we lynch him tomorrow anyway.

I'm probably not giving Cole and Holly enough credit. I just don't think they would've come up with the crazy plan on day one to make up the role descriptions, although I wouldn't put it past Cole, I guess. I'm serious, he is on a different level in these games. My mind doesn't work that way when it comes to this stuff, but I love playing Wolf/Mafia and have missed the insanity lol

...this is very kind. I don't know that I could've come up with quite this plan, but I agree planning is what j do.

I do think that outing your own role is a lame way to play, it seems kind of weak to use that instead of your arguing skills. But I guess the flip side of that coin is that someone can always be lying about what role they have, and there is some merit to that, I will admit.

This is my viewpoint 100%

I understand this position from both of you, but I also accept it as part of the game. I needed a very specific strategy to not be IMMEDIATELY lynched OR wolf killed.

I chose honesty. I get the frustration that this "honesty" has developed a sequence of events that result us in a veritable 100% enemy elimination, and possibly a second.

but it's part of the game. it won't be something always do or even often do. typically I only not myself later in the game when it's necessary.

my goal wasn't to make it less fun for anyone. it was to win, and to show that honesty is a viable strategy.

 

[Cole]

sorry, I edited a typo. I keep forgetting we're not supposed to. Apologies.

 

[Kat]

I've only been about to read through page 20, so maybe something new has been revealed or this has already been said, but he's my take because I'm about to go to a pride event and don't have time to read more:

I'm confident both Ants and Fool's Requiem are either a wolf, a fool, or a serial killer. Ants could be the fool, it's hard to tell with how he's playing it. I don't feel confident enough to lynch him right now. FR, on the other hand, is playing it terribly if he is a fool. He knows he's likely to get killed by a potion tonight which will end his game, he could claim ANYTHING to be more suspicious and at least try to be lynched instead, but he's not. However, I also doubt he's a wolf, because he's playing that terribly too. As a wolf, he'd have three other players trying to get him to try some other tactic to stay alive. If Ants is a wolf (pretty likely just statistically), then we know there's at least one decent wolf player with some experience too, making it even less unlikely they'd let a wolf play like that. I'd bet money he's the serial killer, and isn't sure how to react to being suspected and doesn't have anyone else to strategize with. There's not another good explanation for his behavior.

I'm not 100% sure of either of them, so I still feel like the safest thing to do is kill them both tonight with potions, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to lynching FR if you all want to take the risk. If the serial killer can kill before he gets hit with a potion, it could be worth it to lynch.

 

[Dean]

I honestly forgot about the serial killer role and to take that into account. I was worried about The Fool and the wolves. I'm still abstaining, but you bring up some good points, @Kat .

 

[Cole]

I've only been about to read through page 20, so maybe something new has been revealed or this has already been said, but he's my take because I'm about to go to a pride event and don't have time to read more:

I'm confident both Ants and Fool's Requiem are either a wolf, a fool, or a serial killer. Ants could be the fool, it's hard to tell with how he's playing it. I don't feel confident enough to lynch him right now. FR, on the other hand, is playing it terribly if he is a fool. He knows he's likely to get killed by a potion tonight which will end his game, he could claim ANYTHING to be more suspicious and at least try to be lynched instead, but he's not. However, I also doubt he's a wolf, because he's playing that terribly too. As a wolf, he'd have three other players trying to get him to try some other tactic to stay alive. If Ants is a wolf (pretty likely just statistically), then we know there's at least one decent wolf player with some experience too, making it even less unlikely they'd let a wolf play like that. I'd bet money he's the serial killer, and isn't sure how to react to being suspected and doesn't have anyone else to strategize with. There's not another good explanation for his behavior.

I'm not 100% sure of either of them, so I still feel like the safest thing to do is kill them both tonight with potions, but I wouldn't be completely opposed to lynching FR if you all want to take the risk. If the serial killer can kill before he gets hit with a potion, it could be worth it to lynch.

a reasonable assessment.

I *am* 100% confident on Ants because I trust shortkut in this one instance. I'm not 100% on WHAT he is, just the enemy.

Fool is a bit if an anomaly, he is making himself look suspicious to a huge degree, but is that big brain fool play, is that good brain wolf/serial killer play, or is it discomfort with the game and his suspicionness is as a result of some poor play.

I could agree to lynch.

but I would *really* like @Fool's Requiem to give us a story, whether it's honesty or a lie. or both.

 

[Ryan!]

a reasonable assessment.

I *am* 100% confident on Ants because I trust shortkut in this one instance. I'm not 100% on WHAT he is, just the enemy.

Fool is a bit if an anomaly, he is making himself look suspicious to a huge degree, but is that big brain fool play, is that good brain wolf/serial killer play, or is it discomfort with the game and his suspicionness is as a result of some poor play.

I could agree to lynch.

but I would *really* like @Fool's Requiem to give us a story, whether it's honesty or a lie. or both.

I'm still waiting for Fool to reveal his role.

 

[Ants!]

If he wants to reveal his role then he will, not everyone wants to play that way. Kill/lynch him if you suspect, and if he doesn’t role-reveal to try to save himself then it’s on him.

 

[Cole]

If he wants to reveal his role then he will, not everyone wants to play that way. Kill/lynch him if you suspect, and if he doesn’t role-reveal to try to save himself then it’s on him.

that's fine, but this isn't about just wanting and not wanting to role reveal anymore.

he is claiming he's a high value townie. but he looks very suspicious, if he doesn't reveal something, he's going to die and thst WILL be a mistake for the town of he's telling the truth.

but all we can use is the information we have, and right now he looks guilty. we need his help to save his life.

 

[VashTheStampede]

He doesn't have to flat out claim his role. I've got this:

Hey Fool's, appropos of absolutely nothing: did your character go to college for any length of time?

 

[Cole]

He doesn't have to flat out claim his role. I've got this:

Hey Fool's, appropos of absolutely nothing: did your character go to college for any length of time?

hahahahah

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Role reveal guarantees death for me.

I've already said more than I had ever intended. I've already fucked up trying to stand toe to toe with Coleman. I'm not cunning enough to do that and argue my way out. I don't know if anyone who has claimed a role is truthful. Cole claimkng he's being "honest" is suspect as fuck. Dishonest people are the ones who are always trying to convince you that they're being honest.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

he's going to die and thst WILL be a mistake for the town of he's telling the truth.

Me dying round one is a mistake for the town.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I really want to believe you. But pointing at Cole is what worries me because if he's lying, then Holly is lying and they've basically had the DM help them with the lie, unless I'm missing something.

 

[Dean]

I really want to believe you. But pointing at Cole is what worries me because if he's lying, then Holly is lying and they've basically had the DM help them with the lie, unless I'm missing something.

In theory, they could have made up the description from the DM. Zell never outright confirmed they were telling the truth. I believe them, though.

 

[shortkut]

Me dying round one is a mistake for the town.

Then give us information. Unless you’re the doctor, someone can save you every night. You’re being a real Jolt right now

 

[shortkut]

I really want to believe you. But pointing at Cole is what worries me because if he's lying, then Holly is lying and they've basically had the DM help them with the lie, unless I'm missing something.

If Cole is lying we have 2 wolves, him and holly outed. It might suck for a day but we have the next two lynches arranged so all in all, it isn’t a huge risk

 

[VashTheStampede]

If Cole is lying we have 2 wolves, him and holly outed. It might suck for a day but we have the next two lynches arranged so all in all, it isn’t a huge risk

Oh I agree, I'm just saying that it's not the best path Fool's should take to convince people to keep him around.

 

[shortkut]

Oh I agree, I'm just saying that it's not the best path Fool's should take to convince people to keep him around.

He’s just sucking the fun out of the game, I’m ready for him to be killed regardless of the role

 

[VashTheStampede]

Eh, I disagree. He's in a tough spot regardless of what side he's on and it always sucks to get eliminated early ESPECIALLY if you're a townie.

*glares through the sands of time back at a slightly younger Cole*

 

[Cole]

Role reveal guarantees death for me.

I've already said more than I had ever intended. I've already fucked up trying to stand toe to toe with Coleman. I'm not cunning enough to do that and argue my way out. I don't know if anyone who has claimed a role is truthful. Cole claimkng he's being "honest" is suspect as fuck. Dishonest people are the ones who are always trying to convince you that they're being honest.

this is SUCH A COP OUT and only stands to further make you look suspicious.

as of right now, you are *going* to die. if you continue say nothing, then you die, end of game for you.

If you tell us your role (or lie about your role, or FIGHT IN ANY WAY) and we decide you're worth saving, we cancel our plans, and we aim our protection at you instead.

refusing to hear the four or five different people that have said "WE WILL FUCKING PROTECT YOU" as a way to say "no I'll die, so Im not saying" is why you're in this mess to begin with.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

He’s just sucking the fun out of the game, I’m ready for him to be killed regardless of the role

How is me not blabbing my role "sucking the fun out of the game"?

 

[shortkut]

How is me not blabbing my role "sucking the fun out of the game"?

It’s your entire attitude

 

[shortkut]

refusing to hear the four or five different people that have said "WE WILL FUCKING PROTECT YOU" as a way to say "no I'll die, so Im not saying" is why you're in this mess to begin with.

This specifically. There are ways for you not to die if you are not a wolf. The only 100% death is to say nothing or admit you’re a wolf

 

[Cole]

If Cole is lying we have 2 wolves, him and holly outed. It might suck for a day but we have the next two lynches arranged so all in all, it isn’t a huge risk

or you're lying and we have you. also sucks for a day, but job done.

How is me not blabbing my role "sucking the fun out of the game"?

because you're not even defending yourself. just saying "no please dont you're making a mistake, but I wont tell you why, and also Cole is still really suspicious even though pretty much everyone else is AT THE VERY LEAST willing to give his plan a shot".

if you are a townie, and you have an important role, you are HURTING THE TOWNS CHANCES by refusing to say. Because otherwise, you're DEFINITELY going to die and we may have messed up.

The alternative is you reveal it, and you MIGHT die because we'll try to protect you.

 

[shortkut]

if you are a townie, and you have an important role, you are HURTING THE TOWNS CHANCES by refusing to say. Because otherwise, you're DEFINITELY going to die and we may have messed up.

I told him that before and he doesn’t care. It only works if he is the fool or a wolf. A fool doesn’t care about the town, he just wants to be lynched. A wolf just wants the town to suffer