Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version Night + Day 1

[VashTheStampede]

Man I hate this so much. I completely agree that he's coming off sus as hell but if you were to demand that I reveal my role, I might have a similar reaction on philosophical grounds.

 

[Cole]

I told him that before and he doesn’t care. It only works if he is the fool or a wolf. A fool doesn’t care about the town, he just wants to be lynched. A wolf just wants the town to suffer

exactly, the only conclusion to draw right now is that he should die.

I've been blamed a few times for "ruining this game" by doing what it said on the tin, primarily by fool, and that's fine, I'll take it.

but if you wont reveal your role that is valuable to the town in order to TRY and save you, it's YOU sabotaging the game now.

 

[Cole]

Man I hate this so much. I completely agree that he's coming off sus as hell but if you were to demand that I reveal my role, I might have a similar reaction on philosophical grounds.

and that's fine. as long as he stops blaming ME for "ruining this game" if he's not going to play ball and try to defend himself.

 

[Ants!]

Two problems I see:

1. There were objections to the aura seer revealing him/herself when I pitched it, but now you’re trying to force fools hand to reveal his role. Feels like an inconsistency there.

2. The berserker makes the “we will protect you” promise a thin one. If he thinks his role is really that valuable, then he’s not wrong to hide it.

 

[Dean]

I'm so ready for the day to be over so we can get some information. These 36 hour day phases are great to give everyone plenty of time to reply, but when you have 23 pages (and I get it, it's day one, day one is usually crazy) and then there's just arguing in circles...

I'm the type of dude who goes to a new restaurant and agonizes over a menu for 15 minutes, changing his mind a dozen times before settling back on one of my first couple choices. This is agonizing lol

 

[VashTheStampede]

Yeah this day is far too long, though I totally understand why.

There's still quite a few people we haven't heard from. It'd be hilarious if there's 4 wolves just laughing at us right now.

 

[Cole]

1. There were objections to the aura seer revealing him/herself when I pitched it, but now you’re trying to force fools hand to reveal his role. Feels like an inconsistency there.

because the aura seer doesn't NEED to reveal right now. and at the time I said it was objectionable that you'd try and out that role, I ALREADY KNEW YOU WERE GUILTY.

I just wanted to suss out if you're wolf or not.

2. The berserker makes the “we will protect you” promise a thin one. If he thinks his role is really that valuable, then he’s not wrong to hide it.

yes ,he is wrong.

no reveal = chance of death virtually 100%
reveal = chance of death LESS THAN 100%

if he's going to die there is no benefit to hiding it now. none at all.

 

[Dean]

Yeah this day is far too long, though I totally understand why.

There's still quite a few people we haven't heard from. It'd be hilarious if there's 4 wolves just laughing at us right now.

I've considered that too! We might be making it way too easy on them.

 

[Cole]

Yeah this day is far too long, though I totally understand why.

There's still quite a few people we haven't heard from. It'd be hilarious if there's 4 wolves just laughing at us right now.

it feels worse because it fell across a Sunday where even with our busy adult lives, many of us are likely just chilling today.

36 hours won't feel as long if people are working or otherwise have obligations for a huge chunk of it.

 

[shortkut]

I've considered that too! We might be making it way too easy on them.

Worst case scenario Cole and holly are playing us

Second worst case scenario ants is the serial killer

Third worst case scenario ants is the fool

Assuming you believe me, those are the only outcomes where we do not get a wolf overnight if my plan is followed

 

[Cole]

I've considered that too! We might be making it way too easy on them.

we might not hurt the wolves today, but we will help the town.

Ants is a threat no matter what he is.

FOol is another question.

 

[Cole]

Worst case scenario Cole and holly are playing us

Second worst case scenario ants is the serial killer

Third worst case scenario ants is the fool

Assuming you believe me, those are the only outcomes where we do not get a wolf overnight if my plan is followed

can we not ignore the fact that YOU can be playing us, please? if you got one over on me, this ENTIRE PLAN results in being wrong because you l ied.

 

[shortkut]

can we not ignore the fact that YOU can be playing us, please? if you got one over on me, this ENTIRE PLAN results in being wrong because you l ied.

That’s why I said if people believe me. It will be obvious if I lied because those scenarios wouldn’t happen

 

[Jawneh]

Goddammit, I'm trying to read up on the 9 pages from last night and before I can even finish a page there's 4-5 more posts. And stupid xenforo adds all those to the bottom of the page so I suddenly get transporter a few hours into the future into a completely different discussion. Bah.

/rant

 

[Zell 17]

I'm willing to take suggestions on the timing of days. My thoughts are:

- I wanted to shorten night phases since most people don't have anything to do. Most of the game itself is people figuring things out in the day.
- I wanted days/night to end at the same time so there is a predictable rhythm to the game. I picked 9am/9pm because it seemed to best fit the myriad of timezones we have.

I could be talked into 6 hour nights and 18 hour days. But that may be tight timing for those with night roles.

 

[shortkut]

I'm willing to take suggestions on the timing of days. My thoughts are:

- I wanted to shorten night phases since most people don't have anything to do. Most of the game itself is people figuring things out in the day.
- I wanted days/night to end at the same time so there is a predictable rhythm to the game. I picked 9am/9pm because it seemed to best fit the myriad of timezones we have.

I could be talked into 6 hour nights and 18 hour days. But that may be tight timing for those with night roles.

How about days have a fixed time to end but start once all the night actions are received or after a 12 hour night?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Cole, Kut, and Holly are wolves. There's another hiding. Trying to force out roles and then claiming that people who don't "defend themselves" by posting their own role are "ruining the fun" is suspicious as fuck.

I've misremembered an aspect of my role and I've backed myseld into a corner I cannot remove myself from.

I'm the serial killer. I've accidentally claimed that the wolves can kill me, but then remembered that they can't. The wolves NEED me gone at the hands of the townies because I'm the only one they CAN'T kill, but I can kill them. Since I abstained, I could potentially kill two of them in one night. I said "you need me" because of the previous fact. I never expected to win.

There. Wasn't that fun.

Fuck, I wish I was the Fool...

 

[VashTheStampede]

Maybe you can role switch to lumberjack

 

[Zell 17]

And stupid xenforo adds all those to the bottom of the page so I suddenly get transporter a few hours into the future into a completely different discussion. Bah.

/rant

Yeah seriously, if anyone knows how to disable this bullshit I'd be highly interested.

@Mark
@Crystal

 

[Crystal]

Yeah seriously, if anyone knows how to disable this bullshit I'd be highly interested.

@Mark
@Crystal

Working on trying to find a fix for this, we might just have to disable the real-time threads for now.

 

[Zell 17]

How about days have a fixed time to end but start once all the night actions are received or after a 12 hour night?

Wouldn't that just potentially shorten the nights, at the expense of making days longer?

 

[shortkut]

I’m okay letting fool not be killed at night if he announces who he will kill at night and we see that it actually happened

 

[Ants!]

because the aura seer doesn't NEED to reveal right now. and at the time I said it was objectionable that you'd try and out that role, I ALREADY KNEW YOU WERE GUILTY.

I just wanted to suss out if you're wolf or not.

yes ,he is wrong.

no reveal = chance of death virtually 100%
reveal = chance of death LESS THAN 100%

if he's going to die there is no benefit to hiding it now. none at all.

If he were telling the truth that the wolves would target him, then this is false. But it’s moot now because he revealed.

 

[shortkut]

Wouldn't that just potentially shorten the nights, at the expense of making days longer?

Longer days mean more discussion. No point in having a long night of all actions were taken.

Having a set end time for days ensures everyone can get on. If days are 18 hours, they will end at different times

 

[Fool's Requiem]

If he were telling the truth that the wolves would target him, then this is false. But it’s moot now because he revealed.

Please note, I was not intending to lie, I made an error and forgot that the wolves can't kill me in the night phase.

 

[shortkut]

Please note, I was not intending to lie, I made an error and forgot that the wolves can't kill me in the night phase.

If you are who you say you are, you don’t need to be protected at night. If you announce you will kill dean or kat or someone else, and zell explains their death as being by the serial killer, we know you’re telling the truth and we have a small cabal to weed out the wolves

 

[Ants!]

If you are who you say you are, you don’t need to be protected at night. If you announce you will kill dean or kat or someone else, and zell explains their death as being by the serial killer, we know you’re telling the truth and we have a small cabal to weed out the wolves

Plot twist: the REAL solo killer does the kill he announces to go along with his bluff, since it’s beneficial to remain hidden.

Anyways, whoever the solo killer is (and I’m not saying it’s not me), they’re only beneficial to you and the town in the short term. We all know how temporary alliances end.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Kill Ants so we don't waste a poison.

 

[Ants!]

Kill Ants so we don't waste a poison.

Solo killer killing the fool would be epic.

 

[shortkut]

Kill Ants so we don't waste a poison.

That is an interesting move.

Plot twist: the REAL solo killer does the kill he announces to go along with his bluff, since it’s beneficial to remain hidden.

Anyways, whoever the solo killer is (and I’m not saying it’s not me), they’re only beneficial to you and the town in the short term. We all know how temporary alliances end.

The real killer shouldn’t do that, because they want the wolves dead too. They only win if the town wins, so weeding out a wolf benefits them

 

[shortkut]

That is an interesting move.

The real killer shouldn’t do that, because they want the wolves dead too. They only win if the town wins, so weeding out a wolf benefits them

Clarification on serial killer winning: since they need to be the last one alive, they need all the wolves dead because wolves that know each over will vote to lynch him during a day phase

 

[Cole]

Cole, Kut, and Holly are wolves. There's another hiding. Trying to force out roles and then claiming that people who don't "defend themselves" by posting their own role are "ruining the fun" is suspicious as fuck.

I've misremembered an aspect of my role and I've backed myseld into a corner I cannot remove myself from.

I'm the serial killer. I've accidentally claimed that the wolves can kill me, but then remembered that they can't. The wolves NEED me gone at the hands of the townies because I'm the only one they CAN'T kill, but I can kill them. Since I abstained, I could potentially kill two of them in one night. I said "you need me" because of the previous fact. I never expected to win.

There. Wasn't that fun.

Fuck, I wish I was the Fool...

honestly, I'm flat out offended at your insinuation that *I* ruined the game when this is the end result. YOU put your head there, not me, not any one.

I’m okay letting fool not be killed at night if he announces who he will kill at night and we see that it actually happened

I am not. he just said as a certainty me you and Holly are wolves. I am not, I can be 100% positive holly is not because she knew I quoted the DM. And I have no reason to believe you're not. we can't risk him being fool, he dies tonight.

Kill Ants so we don't waste a poison.

not worth the risk I don't think.

we 100% now have the serial killer and either the fool or 1 wolf off the board. we can't risk the lynch on ants. it's not worth it.

 

[shortkut]

honestly, I'm flat out offended at your insinuation that *I* ruined the game when this is the end result. YOU put your head there, not me, not any one.

I am not. he just said as a certainty me you and Holly are wolves. I am not, I can be 100% positive holly is not because she knew I quoted the DM. And I have no reason to believe you're not. we can't risk him being fool, he dies tonight.

not worth the risk I don't think.

we 100% now have the serial killer and either the fool or 1 wolf off the board. we can't risk the lynch on ants. it's not worth it.

I’m fine either way. I haven’t updated my plan post, which I’m putting here again so we don’t lose it

@Cole overnight kill @Ants!
@Holly overnight kill @Fool's Requiem
@Ryan! overbight protect @Cole
@Cole overnight protect @Holly
@Holly overnight protect me

 

[Cole]

another alternative however that we haven't considered.

GUNNER. if you are out there, use a kill during this DAY PHASE, kill Fools.

if he's the fool, he doesn't get lynched. if he's the serial killer, this prevents him from sneaking in a night kill before holly can kill him. that's the safest bet.

 

[VashTheStampede]

not worth the risk I don't think.

we 100% now have the serial killer and either the fool or 1 wolf off the board. we can't risk the lynch on ants. it's not worth it.

I didn't mean WE kill Ants, I meant Dexter over there.

 

[Zell 17]

Longer days mean more discussion. No point in having a long night of all actions were taken.

Having a set end time for days ensures everyone can get on. If days are 18 hours, they will end at different times

I meant moving from the 12/36 hr model where everything ends at the same time to a 6/18 hour where basically everything goes twice as fast.

 

[shortkut]

I don’t like that the night phases are in chronological order. It penalizes different time zones. The narrative can always be changed to allow all actions to occur. A protected B but on the way home was killed by C who was in turn killed by D

 

[Cole]

I didn't mean WE kill Ants, I meant Dexter over there.

no, we can't trust that he'd be honest.

I don’t like that the night phases are in chronological order. It penalizes different time zones. The narrative can always be changed to allow all actions to occur. A protected B but on the way home was killed by C who was in turn killed by D

AGREED. it makes night phases completely unpredictable.

so like I said GUNNER, take him out before the day ends. it eliminates a huge variable tonight.

 

[shortkut]

I meant moving from the 12/36 hr model where everything ends at the same time to a 6/18 hour where basically everything goes twice as fast.

We can do that, but if the night phase has all actions in after 2 hours, then the day phase can be 22 hours that time. It will still end at the same time but gives more discussion time

 

[shortkut]

so like I said GUNNER, take him out before the day ends. it eliminates a huge variable tonight.

Repeating for emphasis

 

[Cole]

Repeating for emphasis

this is a no lose situation. the only "loss" here is if fools is COMPLETELY lying and is just a civilian, but I don't see how this play works out for him by lying.

the gunner NEEDS to take him out during this day phase.

 

[shortkut]

so like I said GUNNER, take him out before the day ends. it eliminates a huge variable tonight.

Repeating for emphasis

this is a no lose situation. the only "loss" here is if fools is COMPLETELY lying and is just a civilian, but I don't see how this play works out for him by lying.

the gunner NEEDS to take him out during this day phase.

All of this makes sense

 

[Zell 17]

A note on night phases and chronological order.

The wolves and serial killer kills happen at the end of the night. So villagers will never have to worry about getting a protection in before the wolves make their choice, as long as somebody is selected.

Think of it this way. The villagers vote, but the actual kill occurs at the end of the day. The wolves work the same way. They vote, and their kill occurs at the end of the night.

VILLAGER kills happen immediately. They will be posted publicly for all to see when they occur, even if in the middle of the night.

 

[Cole]

A note on night phases and chronological order.

The wolves and serial killer kills happen at the end of the night. So villagers will never have to worry about getting a protection in before the wolves make their choice, as long as somebody is selected.

Think of it this way. The villagers vote, but the actual kill occurs at the end of the day. The wolves work the same way. They vote, and their kill occurs at the end of the night.

VILLAGER kills happen immediately. They will be posted publicly for all to see when they occur, even if in the middle of the night.

this clarification helps and makes it less of a concern.

if the gunner doesn't take him out today @Holly myself @shortkut and @Ryan! can carry on with the original plan.

ants and fools die tonight. and we use our ring of protection.

Holly and I will be burned, but we'll have used our powers perfectly to put down two enemies to the town.

tomorrow can be tomorrows problem.

 

[shortkut]

A note on night phases and chronological order.

The wolves and serial killer kills happen at the end of the night. So villagers will never have to worry about getting a protection in before the wolves make their choice, as long as somebody is selected.

Think of it this way. The villagers vote, but the actual kill occurs at the end of the day. The wolves work the same way. They vote, and their kill occurs at the end of the night.

VILLAGER kills happen immediately. They will be posted publicly for all to see when they occur, even if in the middle of the night.

So as long as the action is sent to you before it is publicly posted, it will occur regardless of when you got the DM?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

gg wolves

 

[Cole]

actually, I need to think. with zells clarification on chronology, maybe we don't need as thorough a ring of protection. plus the serial killer is dead, therefore one less night kill. and the protection can go elsewhere.

Will consider in a little bit.

 

[Zell 17]

So as long as the action is sent to you before it is publicly posted, it will occur regardless of when you got the DM?

I'm not sure what this means, so maybe I'll give an example.

Day ends 9am. At 9:05 the witch PMs me and selects to kill the wolf avenger. At 9:10 the medium PMs me and says they want to revive the gunner.

The avenger roles (whether wolf or town) pre-select who they will kill when they die. If nobody is pre-selected then nobody dies. So I come along at 10 am and see that the witch has killed the wolf avenger. I'd post this in the thread:

The witch has killed Zell 17, who is the Wolf Avenger.

separate post

The Wolf Avenger has taken Zell 18 to the grave with them. They were the Medium.

The gunner is not revived.

 

[VashTheStampede]

My fuckin heart stopped for a second when I saw those bold words

 

[Zell 17]

My fuckin heart stopped for a second when I saw those bold words

Zell 18 WOULD be the one to take way too fuckin' long to revive.