- Messages
- 100
I like how you don't even know/did not even care what was the context I was talking about and just rushed to pile on.
Dumb religion slap fight
- Thread starter aiat_gamer
- Start date
- Status
- Messages
- 3,301
- Messages
- 100
By all means, enjoy it. You have fun. Sure, by three countries I somehow meant Hamas, and by war I meant the recent attack by Israel. I am just wondering how your eyes work that you could not see that giant map in my post with the dates and everything. Maybe you need less selective glasses, but I guess that would ruin the fun.
Whatever is the case, at least to me it is very funny to see how people who have no clue what they are talking about trying to act high and mighty.
- Messages
- 3,301
So when I asked for clarification (did you mean the recent stack by Hamas), you have me a thumbs up, which was a bit confusing and misleading.
I also said in my first post here that I just glanced through and saw a sentence that I quoted. So to answer your question, I suppose my eyes work by looking at things, not by not looking at things.
- Messages
- 100
It is fine. I will leave voluntarily. At this point this feels more like a cult than a forum.
I am on the phone, it was a miss-click. I did not even notice it until now. I guess it is my fault to expect you to at least read what I said fully before jumping in and joining the fun. Speaking of likes, the likes you got from your fellows there and the fun memes? They knew you missed the context of my post, but they joined in anyway. It is all about having fun here.
- Messages
- 3,301
I wish you all the best.
- Messages
- 3,608
FWIW Local was referring to the genocide that's occurring now. So you can't blame him for being confused when you change the topic.
When talking about history, sure, nothing happens in a vacuum, but Israel's wars with neighboring countries decades ago has less to do with their decision NOW to restrict aid to Gaza, target civilians and civilian institutions, and orchestrate a massive humanitarian crisis.
- Messages
- 3,301
Also for what it's worth, I quoted his post where he was referring to the 1940/50s, and then I mentioned the genocide. Confusion all round.
- Messages
- 3,301
- Messages
- 3,608
The Israel/Palestine conflict is hard. Who'da thunk?
- Messages
- 3,301
- Messages
- 3,608
Hello, Nobel committee? I have a nominee...
- Messages
- 3,608
- Messages
- 3,822
Don't get me wrong, I understand the position aiat is coming at this from - and that is precisely why I vehemently, aggressively disagree with it. That is, in point of actual fact, why I said that by his own logic he should have been killed off by another power/country before being given the chance to grow up and disavow those ways.
Leandros was dead on when he compared the man to the Cuban immigrants in Florida, whom largely sided with Trump while thinking "they" are special. "They" are different. "They" are deserving - and "the others" are not. It's never an argument or mentality that sits well with me.
The issue is that he's not even engaging in the debate. When even Alu is calling him out for deflecting, avoiding and misrepresenting there is a very serious problem. It's not language, it's not the fact that he's on a phone (a lot of y'all are on phones and manage just fine!), it's just who he is.
Meanwhile all he wants to do is cry because he knows so much more than everyone else, while saying virtually nothing of substance, and how we could never understand, and also if we want to know anything we should go look it up ourselves because it's simply not worth his time to enlighten our little cult of monkey asses.
Yes. First, more rant: This is why I can't stand people like the aforementioned that come in and shit things up. It's a propaganda tactic; you flood the airwaves with bullshit, distract and misinform, meanwhile the real important shit gets minimal traction. It's not that "outrage sells" or anything expressly, because the information contained within the real important shit generates outrage itself. No, it's more that ranting and raving and feeling superior and pwning the noobz gets everyone riled up. Why it's so effective. Just look how big this thread is compared to how big the destruction of Gaza thread is, in a fraction of the time.
Anyway.
The alleged AI to identify/select targets was called Lavender, but the operation therein was Where's Daddy for exactly the reason specified. Please ignore all of the pro-Israel chaff and Both Sides™ stuff I'm just pulling random links from the search engine in lieu of digging up stuff on here:
Israel's 'Where's Daddy?' AI system helps target suspected Hamas militants when they're at home with their families, report says
Israeli forces have relied heavily on two AI systems, "Lavender" and "Where's Daddy," to identify and target suspected Hamas militants, says report.
www.businessinsider.com
DemocracyNow.org - Lavender & Where’s Daddy: How Israel Used AI to Form Kill Lists & Bomb Palestinians in Their Homes
/cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_asset/file/25371644/247078_AI_Lavender_IDF__CVirginia_A.jpg)
Report: Israel used AI to identify bombing targets in Gaza
One Israeli officer said humans served as “rubber stamps” for the AI.
www.theverge.com
Last I checked cults usually weren't full of disagreement and in-fighting but hey you do you baby, not like you know or care about anyone or anything here anyway!
- Messages
- 6,177
You’re free to do as you please, which alone should tell you something about the “cult-like” status of this community. However, coming from someone who doesn’t like to be painted with broad strokes… that’s a pretty big brush you have there.
I’ve had issues before on mobile, but nothing that couldn’t be rectified by a quick hit of the edit button.
Meanwhile all he wants to do is cry because he knows so much more than everyone else, while saying virtually nothing of substance, and how we could never understand, and also if we want to know anything we should go look it up ourselves because it's simply not worth his time to enlighten our little cult of monkey asses.
Which, I get, to a degree. We’ve all had those “walk a mile in my shoes” moments, but the ability to articulate what it’s like in YOUR shoes is a battle each of us have to fight at some point or another. Explaining emotions or things that you’ve had to endure isn’t an easy task for many, but it CAN be done. Some things are just harder to explain than others, and some details you just can’t explain without someone having intimate knowledge of the subject or their own experiences to draw empathy from.
- Messages
- 809
i personally stopped taking this guy seriously when he described islam as “barbaric”
@aiat_gamer i am sorry this forum was not a good fit for you and i hate that your experience of this religion has been negatively colored by the actions of those in power and those who follow without thinking. i have taught many students who were raised muslim. i have met many friends who were either raised muslim or converted later in life. none of them were barbaric
there is one thing you said that we can all agree on though!
@aiat_gamer i am sorry this forum was not a good fit for you and i hate that your experience of this religion has been negatively colored by the actions of those in power and those who follow without thinking. i have taught many students who were raised muslim. i have met many friends who were either raised muslim or converted later in life. none of them were barbaric
there is one thing you said that we can all agree on though!
- Messages
- 7,651
Nah. He's getting things wrong while telling everyone else we can't possibly be right and that he expected more from this intelligent community (obviously full of sarcasm).
He's claiming to be better than everyone while his only argument tactic is saying he's from a country closer to the conflict and therefore is correct. Nothing about what he's done had been respectful. He can have his viewpoints and argue them all he likes, but he needs to be able to do more than make snide remarks when people ask him to explain what he means or when he's called out on being wrong.
"I don't have time to go through it with you" isn't good enough. When I wrote up my large post to him explaining what he needs to actually address he responded here by saying it's a cult.
- Messages
- 3,608
I gave him the benefit of doubt -- even offered him an out -- but he didn't take it. Instead he doubled down, stomped his feet, and left in a huff. Raine was right when she said he condescends with wrong logic and then acts incredulous when people don't back it up. I still wish we could remove emotions and attitude and name-calling from the debate because it's such an important and complex topic, but hell, we're in the T-dome after all.
I do sort of get why he thinks it's "cult-like" though. Recent actions with Webster and now with aiat remind me of PIMI and how newcomers would be chased out pretty frequently. I guess I fear this place turning even more insular, cliqur-y, and echo chamber-y. In some ways it's GW's greatest strengths, but I think it will also be its death knell.
- Messages
- 3,608
Barbaric is a strong term. I think there's an important distinction between THE PERSON and THE RELIGION. I've met plenty of Muslims who were really cool, funny, and down to earth. Increasingly the younger generation is becoming more and more liberal -- but attitudes that are incompatible with modern liberalism still persist (see: opinion polling).
In my experience, the most liberal Muslims almost always end up leaving their religion, which, btw, is punishable by death in Islam.
The phenomenon I will never truly understand is that of privileged westerners who grow up enjoying the comforts of a western lifestyle, and convert to a religion that's incompatible with their lifestyle.
Anyway, I find it truly fascinating that the modern liberal thought machine is that Islam is some untouchable entity that must be shielded from any potential critique, while it's still cool to dunk on Christianity -- and especially fundamentalist Christians, who have more in common with Islamists than they'd care to learn. It just reeks of hypocrisy to me. No religion should be exempt from critique -- especially not if it threatens or undermines our values.
- Messages
- 6,177
That’s what happens when people want to be heard, but not listen, and when people want to speak but not allow others the same respect.
I’ll always aim for encouraging this place to be as neutral as possible, so that all are welcome, but on the topics of genocide and ethnic cleansing… you can’t afford to be neutral on a moving train.
Problems with cliques stem from, perhaps, the untouchable nature of some of them in the past. Historically, we’ve seen cliques come and go, and the only ones that survived were the groups of genuine friends or the ones that never encountered any type of consequence for their collective behavior. I’d like to think we’ve done better this time around, as no one has truly been above reproach here, but there’s still always work to do.
- Messages
- 6,678
- Messages
- 3,301
I think what the up happening is some in the world will say "islamists should be killed" out of racism and xenophobia. Some on the left or in the West generally will defend the islamist individuals, and this either gets conflated or morphs into support for these religion. Maybe it's fear of being called islamaphones themselves.
This is how (I think) the same people can criticize Christianity and support Islam.
What it really should be is criticize Christianity, criticize Islam, and defend the individuals.
- Messages
- 809
i see that kind of pattern you're taking about and i think it all comes down to the fact that islamophobia is almost always tied into anti-arabic racism in some way shape or form. (except for anti-black racism tied to the nation of islam but that's an entirely different discussion lmao. the nation of islam is a muslim organization almost in the same way that the kkk claims to be a christian organization. it should also be said that the NoI is what many americans associate with islam which is unfortunate) i mean, the first person to be killed after 9/11 as a hate crime was a sikh indian who someone thought was muslim. most milquetoast white liberals don't want to offer critiques of something that someone else may parse as racism even if it's not.
christianity and especially fundamentalist evangelical christianity is the root cause of most of what's wrong with the american system at the moment and like, yeah, i used to be a cool athiest and then i became a cool agnostic and now i'm literally just like whatever. my wife was raised Quaker and Quakers have a lot of good points. we've talked about maybe starting a habit of going to meeting once we get closer to starting a family, and we'd want any kid of ours to be raised Quaker as well.
- Messages
- 151
Bye bitch, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out
Oh man, a cherry picked moment of bad press for the Muslim religion, surely that will change my mind!
Oh… wait…
Man who killed 6-year-old Palestinian boy in Illinois is a Catholic parishioner
Joseph Czuba of Plainfield, Illinois, and his wife are members of St. Mary Immaculate Parish.
www.americamagazine.org
I guess Christians can be rather barbaric themselves, eh?
- Messages
- 3,301
- Messages
- 6,177
Why do you gotta spam up the freshly invigorated dome with that wholesome shit?
I don’t think you’re far off base with that assessment. You could really replace Islamists with any other group of people and come to the same conclusion. If someone says something with a slight conservative tone, they’re labeled as such ignoring the possibility that they could be moderate or independent. If someone criticizes Israel too much or in the “wrong” way, they’re labeled antisemitic.
It’s not a “here” problem so much as it is a global issue. We’ve become too comfortable utilizing labels to define people, and any nuance typically goes right out the window in favor of an emotionally-charged reactive thought process as opposed to a more calculated and analytical thought process where empathy and introspection are present.
Just like it was mentioned that a good chunk of Christians don’t realize how many similarities there are between their belief system and Islam… people see bad traits as bad traits, they don’t necessarily look inward at their own belief system to see if any of those traits are present, excused, or masked in another form or verbiage.
- Messages
- 3,608
Not sure what you're trying to prove. One is institutionalized, the other is a rogue act. Yes, Christians can be shit. Yes, Muslims can be shit. Anyway, stick around that sub for a while -- you might learn something from a world outside of your own.Bye bitch, don't let the door hit your ass on the way out
Oh man, a cherry picked moment of bad press for the Muslim religion, surely that will change my mind!
Oh… wait…
View attachment 14353
View attachment 14354
Man who killed 6-year-old Palestinian boy in Illinois is a Catholic parishioner
Joseph Czuba of Plainfield, Illinois, and his wife are members of St. Mary Immaculate Parish.
I guess Christians can be rather barbaric themselves, eh?
- Messages
- 3,822
I'll give everything a more thorough read later, but on this note - I think we're okay. We have a lot of new faces, and people are contributing in good faith by and large.
Specifically with regards to these two, as well, it's simply their insistence on lobbing things and then ghosting or just willfully choosing to not respond/engage. In addition to these two I called out someone else, and they did respond, and they're still here and things are generally groovy.
Like straight-up: However far to the right Webby shifted/is, you can probably reasonably surmise that I'm that far left. I will invariably put a perspective out there that one or more of y'all will find ridiculous, and you should be encouraged to challenge that. But I will respond, and we will talk, and it won't be a pissing match minimally because, well, I'm still not trying to change anyone's opinions. Discuss things? Sure. Change and whine when, shockingly, that doesn't happen? Nah. Been there, done that.
Also worth noting that aiat isn't "new" to the community like Webster. aiat was around on the original boards... honestly far more around than I ever was, despite having a significantly older registration date. (Jan '02 baby~) So I don't think this is repelling newbies so much as just, uhh, we'll call it filtering.
- Messages
- 151
I’m showing that we can both cherry pick shit and call the religion of choice shit all the same. I guess one defining factor is you sourced a subreddit post in a subreddit full of people who hate the religion and probably exaggerate and lie to make it look bad all the time while I linked an actual attack, but all this is is a back and forth and it’s clearly not getting us anywhere and neither of us are going to change our stance. You’re right, both can be shit. People in all religions can be shit. My personal opinion is all religion is shit. It causes people to do shit things, not think for themselves and generally act like an ass. They’re all cults. They all also condone barbaric or disgusting acts on some level and give humans what they believe the wiggle room to do horrendous acts, be it jail a girl for skirt length, stab a child to death for their beliefs, or hide and hand-waive the molestation of kids for decades.
Nice man, way to subtly say I’ve got a sheltered viewpoint. Thanks for that. But no, I’m not going to “stick around” a subreddit that just circlejerks its hate of a religion, especially when I don’t give two flying fucks about said religion. I made a singular comment that said Christianity is more barbaric and has caused more death and suffering in its history than Islam and you dogpiled like I personally offended you and kicked your dog. If you’re that hardcore pro-Christian, then whatever, enjoy your skygod and priests diddling children.
But fuck right off implying that I’ve got a sheltered worldview. That’s some privileged ass shit to say to somebody. I’m gonna pull an @aiat_gamer and just say I’m done discussing this topic with you, especially if you’re gonna be a straight up dick about it like this
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,301
Call me naive, I do expect change lol.
Maybe more specifically, if either person comes away with more understanding and perspective, I think, fundamentally, change had occurred.
- Messages
- 3,301
I think you're both saying the same thing, for the most part.
But, you have said that Christianity is the worse religion (I'm being reductive and paraphrasing), and others are saying that Islam is the worse religion (I'm being reductive and paraphrasing).
There's really no way to measure that absolute sum of net negatives of either religion, so there's no true comparison.
Both are net negatives.
- Messages
- 6,177
It’s not naive, I’d like to believe the same thing. That’s why I have zero issue trying to put people in my shoes so they can see how I came to believe what I do, and that extends all the way from my own personal ethics to my beliefs in stuff from politics to religion. It’s not self-centering an argument when you’re trying to show someone the how and why you came to a conclusion, and I think that more people could make connections if they try it.
For example, if aiat comes from Iran, stated his view, and said “I feel this way because of this, this, and that, from growing up under an extremist religion” people might be more inclined to understand his perspective, assuming that they themselves are capable of checking their feelings and putting themselves in his shoes. It’s impossible to empathize with someone fully when you’re still thinking with YOUR emotions. That being said, he didn’t exactly do a great job of stating his view and offering up a detailed enough perspective for others to empathize with… and to top it all off, he set the tone by making his audience defensive by challenging their intelligence. He should have known that in doing so, it was going to be an uphill battle to get people to see it from his side. Some people want that battle.
- Messages
- 3,608
Stop and consider for a moment what "exmuslim" could possibly mean. I'll give you a hint: it's not people who hate without cause.
In this you absolutely do. It reminds of the same views I used to have when I knew absolutely nothing about it.
You're misrepresenting my belief, but that's fine. Christianity sucks as well, but at least it's made *some* attempt to modernize. You know, accepting evolution as a reality and such. For what it's worth, Christianity itself does not condone pedo shit, though the Church HAS gone through lengths to protect offenders, and for that it deserves no remorse. I recall only one religion in which the model man consummated his marriage with a 9 year old.
No. Privileged ass shit is saying one religion is ethically and morally equivalent to another one -- one that is used to deny women rights on a scale unlike any other seen in the modern era. One that you quite frankly know nothing about.
All religions have their flaws, but some are more flawed than others.
- Messages
- 809
- Messages
- 5,256
oh, so this was a common thing back then?cafm and kelly are arguing...feel like i just went back in time
- Messages
- 809
- Messages
- 3,608
We can settle this here or we can settle this in cs1.6cafm and kelly are arguing...feel like i just went back in time
- Messages
- 5,256
- Messages
- 3,301
We would lose
- Messages
- 7,651
- Messages
- 809
- Messages
- 6,177
- Messages
- 1,088
- Messages
- 10,304
Should have called it Israstein
- Messages
- 6,177
- Messages
- 10,304
You either get better name placement or more of your old flag design is kept
- Messages
- 6,177
Nah, see, then you’re gonna need a flag council and a name council to agree on things, and let’s be real here… we can barely get people to agree on one thing.
- Messages
- 151
I took the remainder of the day to try and calm down from this response, but, nah, it ain’t happening.
Fuck you. Straight up. Fuck you.
What I “quoted” here is what I got from your reply. I’m not even going to dignify giving it an actual response. You don’t know me, you don’t know my experiences, you don’t know what I’ve gone through, my traumas, my triumphs, who I’ve interacted with, where I’ve been, what I’ve worshipped, any of that, so how dare you sit there, shrug off my opinion and say I know nothing.
You act all high and mighty about your opinion, why? Because you teach/taught in Saudi Arabia or some bullshit? Visited a couple of countries? Awful privileged place to be coming from. But again, you don’t know where I’ve been but assume I’m just a dumbfuck American who sat at home, thumb up my ass, waiving a flag based on your saying I know “nothing.”
Straight up gaslighting. That’s all it is
Motherfucker you don’t know what I’ve gone through in life and experienced in religion, so to sit there and hand waive my opinion and act like you are the superior on the source and I know absolutely nothing?
Nah, fuck that. You’re a pissant. An ignorant-ass, gaslighting pissant at best. Take your superiority complex and shove it right up your ass, sideways.
Oh, by the way, exchristian exists on Reddit too. Take a scroll through. Educate yourself.
I’m done. Piss off.
Last edited:
- Messages
- 3,301
- Messages
- 7,651
For the record, I don't like any response to any post.
- Status