Resolved Wolf + Privacy settings

[TD]

Also I don't know if this is the right place but I don't want to derail what's been an interesting game, it's kind of unfathomable to me that people would intentionally do this.

Is there a way for us to disable activity across the board for all users, mods included? It doesn't serve a purpose. It's cool to see people are online but we really don't need to know WHAT they're doing.

Post for why:
Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3' https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-version-ix-day-3.1308/post-73151

 

[TD]

And because I don't like being accused of cheating:

 

[TD]

Truthfully, I'm a bit put off by the idea I would cheat.

 

[Raine]

Truthfully, I'm a bit put off by the idea I would cheat.

I wouldn't classify it as cheating anyway. Meta-gaming, using the tools available, doing things the host didn't necessarily intend - sure. Cheating? Nah.

People are still looking at "Who read this thread" in the now-recently-closed thread and trying to glean information from it. That's... the same thing. And no one's batting an eye at that.


My stance is what I said: None of this is new, none of this is necessarily giving someone an advantage or edge. It's all part of the game. If the players and individual hosts have issues with any particular thing, those need to be brought up and addressed on a case-by-case basis. You can't control and account for all of these things and I'm still not sure who's even trying to use profile forum activity (WRT PMs) to judge who is and isn't X thing.

 

[TD]

I get where you're coming from but I was just pretty directly called a cheater and nobody even bothered to fact check this shit with me?

Between finding out about this convo stuff and people thinking I would go to these lengths I have to reconsider if these games are for me moving forward which sucks.

I fucking love the figure it out part of this. I was a PI for nearly 10 years, I miss it sometimes but this scratches a sort of similar itch but if this is what people think of me I'm done.

 

[Tubby23]

Can someone give me the shortened version, I've woke up at 3am and in trying to get back to sleep stumbled in here but I'm not comprehending properly at the moment but saw I was tagged.

 

[Raine]

I get where you're coming from but I was just pretty directly called a cheater and nobody even bothered to fact check this shit with me?

Deep breath, love. Lemme go digging, I brought this up because I already knew Kat had strong feelings about this and her feelings went unaddressed at the time. If we're ripping the bandaid off - does anyone besides @Zell 17 even know what started this? - then we're ripping it all off. I'm thorough like that.

I'm going to find her post and Kelly's post where the original insinuation was made. Sound good?

 

[Kat]

I get where you're coming from but I was just pretty directly called a cheater and nobody even bothered to fact check this shit with me?

Between finding out about this convo stuff and people thinking I would go to these lengths I have to reconsider if these games are for me moving forward which sucks.

I fucking love the figure it out part of this. I was a PI for nearly 10 years, I miss it sometimes but this scratches a sort of similar itch but if this is what people think of me I'm done.

Hey, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to call you a cheater. I think it was somebody else who said they used time stamps with the jailer. Either way you're right, that was too far. People have different opinions about what's being clever and what's using information you shouldn't be using. My point was just I didn't like that approach, not saying somebody was intentionally trying to be unfair. It was clever, but it also breaks the balance of that role.

So let me word this a different way: IMO we shouldn't use time stamps of anything or who's looking at what, because that's just a side effect of playing on a forum, and I don't think it makes the game fun. I think it should be considered to be against the rules, but I fully recognize we aren't all in agreement on that, and if a GM allows it then by definition it's within the rules.

 

[Raine]

Ta-da, I have used my powers for Good™!

I've tried being subtle with my hints, so let me ring it like a gong instead:
TD asked me when the weapon dropped and I gave him the time my weapon dropped within a minute or two.

Hmm. @Zell 17 would you tell an evil person this if they asked you? Seems a lot like meta gaming to me.

Why would Zell? The weapon doesn’t have to drop and the wolf wouldn’t see it

IMO there's a difference between "did a weapon drop" and "what time did a weapon drop". It's like checking who is online when actions are made to figure out who's who, or asking people to copy PMs from Zell. But it's definitely clever, I'll give him that.

And Zell never responded to that, so it's been left hanging there for about two months.



Also... um. ... This is going to derail. Please don't derail. Stay focused. This also happened when one of the very few women on our boards, let alone in our games, was literally told she was arguing like a child and to stop posting. Can we... can we not do that again, too? Please?

 

[TD]

Thank you for the apology.

I'm stepping away for a walk because honestly I have a lot to think about.

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Thank you for the apology.

I'm stepping away for a walk because honestly I have a lot to think about.

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

If it helps, I didn't even remember this because it didn't stick out enough to me as being out of the ordinary (neither the actual action nor the response of asking if it was wrong). All of that seemed fair.

 

[Kat]

So thinking about this more, I'm now kind of on the fence about using timestamps for the jailer. Asking "has the weapon for you dropped yet?" is obviously within the intended gameplay. Asking that multiple times also seems reasonable. Asking it very many times is an extension of that, which isn't all that different from a practical standpoint from asking what time the weapon dropped, except it might be slightly easier to justify not immediately answering. Hmmm.

Maybe the role itself needs a tweak, or maybe it's fine since it's a strong role, and we'll just consider it a way to prove a wolf for sure. It feels weirdly balanced but I guess the counter to that is the risk of jailing two wolves together.

 

[TD]

Also... um. ... This is going to derail. Please don't derail. Stay focused. This also happened when one of the very few women on our boards, let alone in our games, was literally told she was arguing like a child and to stop posting. Can we... can we not do that again, too? Please?

I hope this wasn't an implication that I would attack Kat.

I like Kat. But I'm upset.

 

[Jon]

Perhaps this whole thing should be split to a different topic to continue finding solutions for the wolf game and we don't bog down the forum statistics topic with problem solving the wolf games concerns?

 

[Raine]

I hope this wasn't an implication that I would attack Kat.

I like Kat. But I'm upset.

What? No! Nonono. Go back on your walk ohmygoodness.

I was just reminded of something that I had already alluded to - and the party apologized for - that's also in that thread and potentially contributes to the way the vibes are there.

 

[Raine]

Perhaps this whole thing should be split to a different topic to continue finding solutions for the wolf game and we don't bog down the forum statistics topic with problem solving the wolf games concerns?

Yeah I was gonna post in the actual thread but that's in the Hall of Justice for some reason...

@Mark we need ur halp

 

[Mark]

Thank you for the apology.

I'm stepping away for a walk because honestly I have a lot to think about.

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

From a non-player viewpoint, I think it’s easier to come to a conclusion that uses the forum software as evidence as opposed to something that uses potential human behavior as evidence. You were an investigator, as was I, so you know the value of tangible evidence over theoretical. From their position, it’s much easier to lock in on timestamps and data backed by the forums than it is to assume that someone either cheated or played the data to their favor. They don’t know for sure if Kelly is smart enough to play the way he could be playing, they don’t know for sure if you’re playing this angle or that angle, but if they can connect dots on the forums it provides something a *little* more tangible than speculation.

I think @Raine has the right idea, though… y’all have fun with those games, keep that at the forefront of playing them. We’ve seen these games drop off after conflicts within them, and nobody had fun afterwards until the ice was broken and everyone realized that they could still have fun despite a bad round. Between the players and the game runners, y’all do a good job of addressing issues and ironing them out the next time around. This doesn’t have to be any different.

Yeah I was gonna post in the actual thread but that's in the Hall of Justice for some reason...

@Mark we need ur halp

I’m on it. Gonna lock this thread temporarily so I can merge and split the discussions.

 

[Kat]

Thank you for the apology.

I'm stepping away for a walk because honestly I have a lot to think about.

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

Please don't take it like that. I didn't give any thought to who was involved, and I'm obviously in the minority on what was described even being an issue. I think you're fun to play with and respect you as a person and have zero problems with you at all

I've engaged in meta gaming myself and felt very clever about it in the moment, then realized after the game ended that it was basically the same thing I've been complaining about. It can be difficult to avoid doing it, especially if you're feeling pressure to make the right decision. So I don't think anyone who has done it is a bad person or intentionally being unfair or anything like that.

I'm going to go back and edit that post because I realize now my careless wording insulted a bunch of people I don't want to insult.

 

[Mark]

Alright. Staff forum thread and forum stats discussion have been merged, and now we’re in the Q&S forum.

 

[Raine]

This is the dead thread where TD and I were chatting, approximately around the time the Kelly post happened (an hour earlier but still): https://gwforums.com/threads/zell-wolf-rebirth-just-kidding-youre-dead.1008/page-4#post-62146

So... yeah. I guess TD never saw it, and err... I didn't notice? I was never made party to the conversation that happened despite being the Warden ('cause I died), and just took anything TD or Kelly said at face value 'cause that was easier. Also, um...

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

...this is a trick question, right? Y-Yes? Something as vanilla as timestamps wouldn't even get penciled in on the last page of the notebook that's titled "Things other people wouldn't do" when it comes to us?

Like the question is probably "Would TD be convinced by a timestamp claim in this scenario Raine has put him in because he and Kelly were already duking it out in the day phase?"

Like, absolutely, I apologize profusely if that doesn't sit well with you. But I don't view it as cheating or even bending the rules, so I don't mean it that way. And I also apologize for bringing this up and causing distress. Truly. But I'm not sure there's necessarily a better/"good" time to bring this up for closure, and I guess other avenues and considerations are already underway for unrelated things. So... so yeah.

All of that seemed fair.

Maybe the role itself needs a tweak, or maybe it's fine since it's a strong role, and we'll just consider it a way to prove a wolf for sure. It feels weirdly balanced but I guess the counter to that is the risk of jailing two wolves together.

I mean, I've had Jailer and Warden more than anyone and I've never left the "these roles are too strong and do too much" train I started in my first PM to Zell.

Honestly though the timestamp itself is easy enough to contend with, you just need to be aware that it's a possible lane of unintended outcomes going in if that's something you expressly do not want done. Nothing says the players need to have the weapon at the same time, or that if they both use it a coin isn't flipped to see who wins the struggle or whatever. Hell, doing a coin flip is potentially more fair than first-come, first-serve since people are in disparate time zones.

 

[Smacktard]

It irks me that instead of "maybe Kelly is going to great lengths to prove innocence" it was "yeah TD would do that" basically.

Yeah FWIW it was basically this. TD asked if a weapon had dropped, I said it had. He didn't ask for timestamps.

I said he asked for timestamps so that my claim of townie would be more believable. It was a lie, but it was a lie to help the town win the game.

Also FWIW I don't think asking for timestamps is a taboo for that role. It's a clever way to play the situation IMO, but it's also fair that the role might need to be changed to avoid that type of metagaming, as Kat suggests.

 

[Raine]

Can someone give me the shortened version, I've woke up at 3am and in trying to get back to sleep stumbled in here but I'm not comprehending properly at the moment but saw I was tagged.

Oh that was me! Just the post you were tagged in itself is relevant, I guess, insofar as outlining in your future games which types of things you do and do not want people being able to cite as evidence. Real in the weeds stuff honestly, but in lieu of full transparency (because a game is ongoing, not because they're hiding stuff) it's about the best advice I can offer.

 

[Raine]

@Smacktard I laugh reacted 'cause we're over here now!

 

[Kat]

Honestly though the timestamp itself is easy enough to contend with, you just need to be aware that it's a possible lane of unintended outcomes going in if that's something you expressly do not want done. Nothing says the players need to have the weapon at the same time, or that if they both use it a coin isn't flipped to see who wins the struggle or whatever. Hell, doing a coin flip is potentially more fair than first-come, first-serve since people are in disparate time zones.

Hmm, I feel like that'll make it impossible to take advantage of as a townie even without trying to use time stamps though. Does the other person not see a weapon because they're a wolf or because somebody is fucking with the two of you?

If it's intended that a wolf should have a 50/50 chance of correctly knowing whether a weapon was dropped, then the simplest answer I can think of is the warden/jailer (I can't remember which has the weapon) must decide whether a weapon gets dropped during the day and it always gets dropped shortly after the day thread closes. I've never played the role or been jailed, so maybe that will cause other problems I'm not thinking of.

 

[Raine]

Hmm, I feel like that'll make it impossible to take advantage of as a townie even without trying to use time stamps though. Does the other person not see a weapon because they're a wolf or because somebody is fucking with the two of you?

Correct, if the Warden drops the weapon only townies can see it. Wolves will not know, and if they're not killed (or kill the Warden and escape, if the two prisoners are both wolves), they theoretically have a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly whether or not the weapon was there.

Both roles choose who to imprison during the day, and then the rest happens at night. Warden chooses whether or not to drop the weapon, and the Jailer directly executes the prisoner themselves if they so desire; no middleman for that one.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Can someone give me the shortened version, I've woke up at 3am and in trying to get back to sleep stumbled in here but I'm not comprehending properly at the moment but saw I was tagged.

Yeah I'm with you in having little clue as to what's going on and I wasn't even tagged in that post as one of the GMs

But as usual, Mark's got my back.

 

[Raine]

Yeah I'm with you in having little clue as to what's going on and I wasn't even tagged in that post as one of the GMs

But as usual, Mark's got my back.

Oh... I knew I was forgetting someone!

I mean your name is right there I don't know what you're talking about you're silly so silly yes silly silly.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Oh... I knew I was forgetting someone!

I mean your name is right there I don't know what you're talking about you're silly so silly yes silly silly.

Oh damn I must have missed that the first time

My mistake

I was so sure it wasn't there

Must be going crazy

Oh crap I'm all out of gas in my lamp better go light it again

 

[Mark]

@Smacktard I laugh reacted 'cause we're over here now!

I fixed it.

Yeah I'm with you in having little clue as to what's going on and I wasn't even tagged in that post as one of the GMs

But as usual, Mark's got my back.

What’d I do this time?

 

[Kat]

I'm going to subject you all to some thinking out loud here.

I said he asked for timestamps so that my claim of townie would be more believable. It was a lie, but it was a lie to help the town win the game.

So here's the flip side of all this: one time someone (I want to say it was also Kelly, but I could be wrong) used time stamps to make a claim of getting a potion from a SK more believable, even though it was a lie. He said something like, "I posted right around when you were PMed your potion, didn't I?" And I responded that I don't like using timestamps, but yes he did and yes I had noticed (because how could I not?).

So he used it to mislead people, which does make the game more fun. And now knowing it was an intentional lie about the weapon time as well, I feel like it's a really clever move, because it didn't even occur to me it could be a lie. I just thought "fuck, there goes my best lynch target".

So I like that, but obviously we can't allow people to pretend to meta game or meta game to mislead and also ban meta gaming to find wolves. And realistically, if someone had posted about a potion way before I got mine, I don't know that I could've ignored that clear information it was a lie.

Hmmm. I'm going to have to think on this some more.

 

[Smacktard]

So here's the flip side of all this: one time someone (I want to say it was also Kelly, but I could be wrong) used time stamps to make a claim of getting a potion from a SK more believable, even though it was a lie. He said something like, "I posted right around when you were PMed your potion, didn't I?" And I responded that I don't like using timestamps, but yes he did and yes I had noticed (because how could I not?).

Of course it was me

Yeah, that instance may have been pushing the boundaries of metagaming a bit.

 

[Kat]

Correct, if the Warden drops the weapon only townies can see it. Wolves will not know, and if they're not killed (or kill the Warden and escape, if the two prisoners are both wolves), they theoretically have a 50/50 chance of guessing correctly whether or not the weapon was there.

Both roles choose who to imprison during the day, and then the rest happens at night. Warden chooses whether or not to drop the weapon, and the Jailer directly executes the prisoner themselves if they so desire; no middleman for that one.

I meant for your suggestion of not dropping the weapon for both townies at the same time, it makes it impossible to tell if the other person is a wolf or townie based on whether they can also see the weapon. So I think the only solution to prevent using the time it was dropped as information is to always drop it at a predictable time. And I feel like that'd have to be at the beginning of the night phase just because the middle of the night phase is often literally the middle of the night.

Of course, that prevents the warden from dropping the weapon later if a wolf claims to see one that isn't there. Assuming the warden would even know that happened. I don't have the role dictionary open and am too lazy to go look it up.

 

[TD]

So... yeah. I guess TD never saw it, and err... I didn't notice? I was never made party to the conversation that happened despite being the Warden ('cause I died), and just took anything TD or Kelly said at face value 'cause that was easier. Also, um...

That was also right around the time of surgery 1 so I was really only skimming the game at a high level, pretty sure I disappeared at some point during Day 2 or 3 or something. So makes sense.

...this is a trick question, right? Y-Yes? Something as vanilla as timestamps wouldn't even get penciled in on the last page of the notebook that's titled "Things other people wouldn't do" when it comes to us?

I mean it depends. Time stamps in like a day phase? Yeah I've always been all over that shit. Would I ask for time stamps in a Warden chat? I'm with Kat on that.

At the end of the day, I'm pretty unimpressed with the state of how wolf gets played, not by all, but by some.

It feels like people are consistently more concerned with winning than anything. If that's what makes it fun for them - then fine.

Me? I'm all about fun which is why I pushed for the tie in the Lamb Chop game. Without me that can't happen in that game and it's my most memorable game that I played in.

 

[Raine]

So I like that, but obviously we can't allow people to pretend to meta game or meta game to mislead and also ban meta gaming to find wolves.

That's about the size of it, yeah.

I'm super intimately familiar with this entire concept, and the various arguments for and against this, that and the other thing, because it's a 1:1 mirror for games like Final Fantasy XI and XIV. Or even for something like World of Warcraft, back when DBM/Dangerous Boss Mods was gaining traction. I'll spare the deep nerd talk most would need a guide to understand, but the truth of the matter is that ultimately there isn't a proper right or wrong answer. If someone is getting an "unfair advantage" because they're staff and can see through privacy filters, I believe we can all agree that's not exactly kosher. So we can - have, apparently - get that addressed and resolved all quick and tidy-like.

But that's probably about the beginning and end of collective default agreement. There will be people that like being able to use timestamps, falsify documents/PMs with Paint/Photoshop, make false quotes and anchors, look at who's doing or done what in the last ~24 hours on the forum, so on and so forth. And there will be people that dislike one or more or even all of that.

That's why I think the solution is on the host end. FQ allows free usage of PMs for her games, Zell does not. Just stuff like that.

 

[Mark]

That was also right around the time of surgery 1 so I was really only skimming the game at a high level, pretty sure I disappeared at some point during Day 2 or 3 or something. So makes sense.

I mean it depends. Time stamps in like a day phase? Yeah I've always been all over that shit. Would I ask for time stamps in a Warden chat? I'm with Kat on that.

At the end of the day, I'm pretty unimpressed with the state of how wolf gets played, not by all, but by some.

It feels like people are consistently more concerned with winning than anything. If that's what makes it fun for them - then fine.

Me? I'm all about fun which is why I pushed for the tie in the Lamb Chop game. Without me that can't happen in that game and it's my most memorable game that I played in.

This makes me like (I think it was, without re-reading) @Kat’s idea of taking folks that treat the game seriously enough to “cheat” and intentionally derailing their intended play as game master. So long as it’s done in a “fun” way to get the game back on its rails, I don’t think anyone would be too objective because it’s essentially handing out an expanded role to the game master where he/she is “playing” to complete the game as well.

 

[Kat]

Of course it was me

Yeah, that instance may have been pushing the boundaries of metagaming a bit.

Nah, it would've been impossible to ignore it ether way, so you did the smart thing and made it check out. And it was risky, you didn't know for sure he had sent them out then. And you wouldn't have known they hadn't been sent out earlier if I hadn't said so.

I guess I'm against metagaming when it breaks the balance of the game, and am fine with it otherwise. Like somebody mentioned people noticed Tommy didn't participate in the thread all day but was active in the forums, so they're deducing there's a voodoo wolf. It is metagaming, but that actually seems fair to me, because somebody not posting all day is suspicious, and people are bound to notice if he's posting elsewhere. And he could just be a wolf who's bad at lying and will use voodoo wolf as an excuse for not posting and to hide the actual type of wolf they have instead. Who knows? It doesn't prove anything either way.

Reasonable people can disagree on where to draw the line, for sure. I don't like having an explicit list of every single kind of information that's allowed and not, but I don't think we can blanket ban using everything outside of what's intended to be used either.

 

[Raine]

I meant for your suggestion of not dropping the weapon for both townies at the same time, it makes it impossible to tell if the other person is a wolf or townie based on whether they can also see the weapon. So I think the only solution to prevent using the time it was dropped as information is to always drop it at a predictable time. And I feel like that'd have to be at the beginning of the night phase just because the middle of the night phase is often literally the middle of the night.

Ahh, I got you. Yeah that works just as well, and honestly it's the way I had already used Warden in that example - I queued the dropping of the weapon the same time I chose my targets, and that was hours before the day phase ended. The number of times that's not going to be viable/ideal are probably fairly small, so if we can form a consensus on that change I think that would be very easy for @Zell 17 to edit.

Me? I'm all about fun which is why I pushed for the tie in the Lamb Chop game. Without me that can't happen in that game and it's my most memorable game that I played in.

Exactly. After our conversation in... one dead thread or another, there are so many you understand, where you brought up Kat's concerns regarding judgments? I made a vow. I followed through on it. I will continue to not post the actual picture 'cause I feel it's a bit ableist, but I will absolutely fucking do it again.

My intention is not to ruin games, but yes - push and pull whatever buttons and levers makes it the most fun. We just maybe need to establish which things aren't super fun for everyone so we can all continue to enjoy our collective nonsense.



For today, at least, if you and Kat are content/happy then that's perfect. We can figure out what exactly is happening and work to resolve those particulars after the game concludes.

 

[Zell 17]

For what it's worth I'm 100% fine with using Warden weapon drop timing as a line of questioning. It's a thing in the game I took the role from, too. And it can be faked as well.

 

[Kat]

For what it's worth I'm 100% fine with using Warden weapon drop timing as a line of questioning. It's a thing in the game I took the role from, too. And it can be faked as well.

You probably don't want to give it away, but I'm really curious how it can be faked unless you get lucky assuming it was dropped at the beginning of the night.

 

[Zell 17]

Ya know though...I just thought of some fun changes for the Warden that would eliminate any timing issues though.

 

[Zell 17]

I think what I'll do is the Warden has to choose which prisoner gets the weapon. Wolves and solos would be able to see it and use it, but just like villagers they can only kill with it if the person they are jailed with is a different team. So if they used it to kill a villager it would give them away as evil.

 

[Kat]

I think what I'll do is the Warden has to choose which prisoner gets the weapon. Wolves and solos would be able to see it and use it, but just like villagers they can only kill with it if the person they are jailed with is a different team. So if they used it to kill a villager it would give them away as evil.

This should be interesting.

 

[shortkut]

Are the timestamps of the merged thread all messed up or is @TD talking about stepping away again? I’ll vote to lynch whomever made him feel this way

 

[Kat]

Are the timestamps of the merged thread all messed up or is @TD talking about stepping away again? I’ll vote to lynch whomever made him feel this way

it was me, I'm an idiot and worded my post very poorly. Hopefully my apology will help him feel differently, but I understand why he's hurt. The wolves already murdered me though.

 

[TD]

Are the timestamps of the merged thread all messed up or is @TD talking about stepping away again? I’ll vote to lynch whomever made him feel this way

I got really upset and considered it.

I basically got accused of cheating and I did not take well to it, but I've went for a walk and since cooled down a bit.

I've since been apologized to and do not hold ill will.

 

[shortkut]

it was me, I'm an idiot and worded my post very poorly. Hopefully my apology will help him feel differently, but I understand why he's hurt. The wolves already murdered me though.

I’ll vote desecrating your corpse in honor of @TD and it should be okay

 

[shortkut]

I got really upset and considered it.

I basically got accused of cheating and I did not take well to it, but I've went for a walk and since cooled down a bit.

I've since been apologized to and do not hold ill will.

I wouldn’t have considered it cheating, I would think of it as a loophole that needs to get closed

 

[TD]

I wouldn’t have considered it cheating, I would think of it as a loophole that needs to get closed

I agree - but the word cheating was used and I got triggered.

 

[Kat]

I wouldn’t have considered it cheating, I would think of it as a loophole that needs to get closed

I only put that because I realized I was using a nerdy phrase "metagaming" and wasn't sure everybody would know what that meant, so I just put the word I saw some other people using as clarification without even thinking about the implications of it. Obviously I also forgot I was on a board of gaming nerds.

 

[shortkut]

I only put that because I realized I was using a nerdy phrase "metagaming" and wasn't sure everybody would know what that meant, so I just put the word I saw some other people using as clarification without even thinking about the implications of it. Obviously I also forgot I was on a board of gaming nerds.

Clarification is cheating for people who have difficulty reading. It’s why I always ask @Zell 17 for clarification on the rules

 

[Tubby23]

As a GM, my opinion FWIW is that I'm comfortable with how games are currently played.

As a player who is in the opposite timezone I often use methods of subterfuge so that people can't tell what I'm doing. For example, sometime I deliberately open the new thread as soon as Zell posts it so my name is in there as having viewed it very early in the piece. Sometimes if I'm late to the party and I want to read without the temptation of reacting or to avoid being seen I will open the thread in an incognito tab so I'm not logged in.

The same extends to when I have roles, there has been a couple of times where I have asked Zell or Bash to time an action on my behalf. I'm not sure whether that's meta gaming or not but I hope that wouldn't be considered outside the bounds of how we should be playing. For me it allows some plausible deniability about the time of actions, because there are long parts of games where the only players awake are Benzine, Kelly and I.