Resolved Wolf + Privacy settings

[TD]

Also I don't know if this is the right place but I don't want to derail what's been an interesting game, it's kind of unfathomable to me that people would intentionally do this.

Is there a way for us to disable activity across the board for all users, mods included? It doesn't serve a purpose. It's cool to see people are online but we really don't need to know WHAT they're doing.

Post for why:
Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3' https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-version-ix-day-3.1308/post-73151

 

[Zell 17]

Splitting off from this post so we don't clog up the boards:

Zell Wolf - GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3

PLEASE BE ADVISED that there are a couple rule changes in bold. The day will start at 9 AM EST. Dictionary: https://gwforums.com/threads/zell-wolf-role-dictionary-and-hall-of-fame.427/ And here's the list of players: @A Subcontrabass Sax @Benzine @Dean @Fool's Requiem @GwJumpman @Jawneh @Jon...

gwforums.com

Being able to track what activity game players are engaged in could be game breaking. Changing the privacy settings will work for most players, but Coleman says it won't work for staff.

My first thought is, I'm sure our userclass abilities can be modified so that we can't overrule privacy settings. Do I really need to be able to go to Alu's profile and see he is sitting on the Golden Throne in in the Staff chambers?

 

[Jon]

It's the art of quality shitposting.

Does that mean I've earned a job in the shitposting dept?

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Also I don't know if this is the right place but I don't want to derail what's been an interesting game, it's kind of unfathomable to me that people would intentionally do this.

Is there a way for us to disable activity across the board for all users, mods included? It doesn't serve a purpose. It's cool to see people are online but we really don't need to know WHAT they're doing.

Post for why:
Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3' https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-version-ix-day-3.1308/post-73151

Yeah that's fair, if possible.

 

[TD]

Does that mean I've earned a job in the shitposting dept?

...we'll talk about it.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

...we'll talk about it.

Unpaid intern.

 

[Jon]

I'm already basically doing that for my real job.

 

[Mark]

Yeah that's fair, if possible.

In case it gets lost in the wolf thread, I’m currently working on this.

Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3'
https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-version-ix-day-3.1308/post-73211

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

In case it gets lost in the wolf thread, I’m currently working on this.

Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3'
https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-version-ix-day-3.1308/post-73211

I can still see it:


I didn't even know where to look at first so it took me a sec to find it lmao.

 

[Jon]

I can still see it: View attachment 4409


I didn't even know where to look at first so it took me a sec to find it lmao.

QUIT SPYING ON MY ALU!

At least you're a villager now...

 

[Mark]

I can still see it: View attachment 4409


I didn't even know where to look at first so it took me a sec to find it lmao.

@Jon would have to disable his online status for it to take effect.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Turn your privacy settings to the correct ones so that wolves don't get at your privates.

 

[Jon]

I did it now...

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I did it now...

Looks good now.

 

[Mark]

Splitting off from this post so we don't clog up the boards:

Zell Wolf - GWF Zell Wolf - Version IX - Day 3

PLEASE BE ADVISED that there are a couple rule changes in bold. The day will start at 9 AM EST. Dictionary: https://gwforums.com/threads/zell-wolf-role-dictionary-and-hall-of-fame.427/ And here's the list of players: @A Subcontrabass Sax @Benzine @Dean @Fool's Requiem @GwJumpman @Jawneh @Jon...

gwforums.com

Being able to track what activity game players are engaged in could be game breaking. Changing the privacy settings will work for most players, but Coleman says it won't work for staff.

My first thought is, I'm sure our userclass abilities can be modified so that we can't overrule privacy settings. Do I really need to be able to go to Alu's profile and see he is sitting on the Golden Throne in in the Staff chambers?

I could theoretically make it work for staff, I just opted to allow admins access to the full online list since Cole has been sitting out the games lately. We have the option to make every staff group force user-defined privacy settings. Technically, I can make it so admins can be blocked and everything just like other members, but for obvious reasons… that’s probably not smart.

Alternatively, there’s the first option I started looking into, but that’ll be a bit of work and not something that I can just flip a switch on in the midst of a game like the option I ended up going with, which was much simpler and just ticking a box in each group.

 

[Mark]

Looks good now.

Excellent, so my duct tape fix worked.

 

[Mark]

Also, @A Subcontractor's Ass and @Jon have confirmed that as long as players enable the proper privacy setting, my band aid does work.

 

[Tubby23]

...we'll talk about it.

We can have discussions. I wish I was able to help with the game haha

 

[Crystal]

Mark ftw!

Also, forgive my wolf ignorance, but to avoid it being a future problem, couldn't we then have role-based forums so no one needs to engage in convos, this removing the need for the fix and the ability to see who is engaged in conversations?

Just make them private with user-based perms...?

 

[Kat]

Mark ftw!

Also, forgive my wolf ignorance, but to avoid it being a future problem, couldn't we then have role-based forums so no one needs to engage in convos, this removing the need for the fix and the ability to see who is engaged in conversations?

Just make them private with user-based perms...?

You'd need a separate forum for every person, and maybe whenever a wolf dies (Zell creates a new PM thread when that happens). I think it would technically work (depending on what it shows if you're looking at a hidden forum), but it'd be a lot of work.

 

[Crystal]

You'd need a separate forum for every person, and maybe whenever a wolf dies (Zell creates a new PM thread when that happens). I think it would technically work (depending on what it shows if you're looking at a hidden forum), but it'd be a lot of work.

Hmm. Yeah that is quite a bit of work, but doable.

 

[Mark]

You'd need a separate forum for every person, and maybe whenever a wolf dies (Zell creates a new PM thread when that happens). I think it would technically work (depending on what it shows if you're looking at a hidden forum), but it'd be a lot of work.

Nope, much easier than that. I worked out the logistics for it early on when I suggested breaking wolf into it’s own forum, all we’d need to do is have at-most a main forum, a wolf sub-forum, a townie sub-forum, and a dead sub-forum. All sub forums would function as the dead forum does, where access is granted on a per-account basis. That would eliminate the entire conversation element of the game, turning those conversation threads into actual threads, and then at the end you’d end up with 3 threads… a wolf, a town, and a dead, all moved to the archive forum that was made.

 

[Crystal]

Nope, much easier than that. I worked out the logistics for it early on when I suggested breaking wolf into it’s own forum, all we’d need to do is have at-most a main forum, a wolf sub-forum, a townie sub-forum, and a dead sub-forum. All sub forums would function as the dead forum does, where access is granted on a per-account basis. That would eliminate the entire conversation element of the game, turning those conversation threads into actual threads, and then at the end you’d end up with 3 threads… a wolf, a town, and a dead, all moved to the archive forum that was made.

That! That's what I was getting at, without being smart enough to articulate it!

 

[Jon]

Nope, much easier than that. I worked out the logistics for it early on when I suggested breaking wolf into it’s own forum, all we’d need to do is have at-most a main forum, a wolf sub-forum, a townie sub-forum, and a dead sub-forum. All sub forums would function as the dead forum does, where access is granted on a per-account basis. That would eliminate the entire conversation element of the game, turning those conversation threads into actual threads, and then at the end you’d end up with 3 threads… a wolf, a town, and a dead, all moved to the archive forum that was made.

The question would be is there any way for anyone to see who has access to each forum?

 

[Crystal]

The question would be is there any way for anyone to see who has access to each forum?

Only admins, in the acp

 

[Mark]

The question would be is there any way for anyone to see who has access to each forum?

That’s limited to admins only, since we are the only ones with access to the overall forum permissions area. It would be possible for an admin to cheat, simply by going into each individual’s permissions for each specific sub-forum, but that ability could also be temporarily locked if Cole were to jump in a game with admin logs indicating when the lock was put in place and removed to preserve the integrity of the game. I’m not implying he would cheat or anything, though, he’s just the only admin that has played the games.

 

[Crystal]

That’s limited to admins only, since we are the only ones with access to the overall forum permissions area. It would be possible for an admin to cheat, simply by going into each individual’s permissions for each specific sub-forum, but that ability could also be temporarily locked if Cole were to jump in a game with admin logs indicating when the lock was put in place and removed to preserve the integrity of the game. I’m not implying he would cheat or anything, though, he’s just the only admin that has played the games.

Also kind of seems like a stupid way to cheat, honestly

 

[Mark]

Also kind of seems like a stupid way to cheat, honestly

Oh absolutely, but if he were to want to jump in a game and the issue be raised, we already have a solution that could keep him in the game and keep it on the level.

 

[Crystal]

Oh absolutely, but if he were to want to jump in a game and the issue be raised, we already have a solution that could keep him in the game and keep it on the level.

Yep, 100%! Best to have all bases covered

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Just to keep things clear: I have access to the admincp as well, but not the permissions bit. Just the stats bit.

 

[Mark]

Just to keep things clear: I have access to the admincp as well, but not the permissions bit. Just the stats bit.

Yep, and if anyone questions your access during a game, we can provide proof of that as well.

 

[Zell 17]

Yep, and if anyone questions your access during a game, we can provide proof of that as well.

We've seen Alu play, nobody is questioning it.

(Just kidding I love you Alu)

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

We've seen Alu play, nobody is questioning it.

(Just kidding I love you Alu)

 

[TD]

The extra wolf forums per convo sounds a bit excessive.

If we're worried about the engaged in convo thing, what would it show them looking at?

There really isn't just a way to hide it?

If we're worried about people going to these lengths for cheating someone could literally obsessively watch post counts.

Either way. I can't believe we are having this conversation.

 

[Mark]

The extra wolf forums per convo sounds a bit excessive.

If we're worried about the engaged in convo thing, what would it show them looking at?

There really isn't just a way to hide it?

If we're worried about people going to these lengths for cheating someone could literally obsessively watch post counts.

Either way. I can't believe we are having this conversation.

I did set it to hide activity for the time being, I think they’re gonna try that route and see if it works before attempting anything else.

 

[Crystal]

I did set it to hide activity for the time being, I think they’re gonna try that route and see if it works before attempting anything else.

We can go even more simple, use a group and just use a conditional on profiles and whose online. If user is member of group x hide whose online. Saves people needing to tweak their settings

 

[Mark]

We can go even more simple, use a group and just use a conditional on profiles and whose online. If user is member of group x hide whose online. Saves people needing to tweak their settings

I thought about that, but it’s easier to have the members set it themselves so they can opt in/out depending on whether they’re playing or not.

 

[Crystal]

I thought about that, but it’s easier to have the members set it themselves so they can opt in/out depending on whether they’re playing or not.

Fair enough, just wanted to make sure we weren't creating more work for everyone, but it's a simple toggle, so no big deal

 

[Raine]

Just as a general FYI, this has been a thing since the OG board. It has, on numerous occasions, blown up in the faces of people trying to use that as evidence for the games - both ways, actually - because, well, wolf isn't the only thing people do. There or here.

I have always intentionally maintained an open profile; I guarantee you no one has ever seen anything I didn't want them to see. I have also never bothered looking at people's activities though, so I won't notice or care if that disappears.
This is a lot less practical on mobile though, and even moreso I would imagine if you're also using the app/bookmark.



Add it to my list of crimes @Tommy Boy.

 

[Kat]

townie sub-forum

Can you do this while avoiding townies being able to identify or communicate with other townies?

 

[Raine]

Things like the Freemasons/Polycule, Cupid Couple, Instigator, et al, will make the sub-forum thing an absolute nightmare, also.

 

[Mark]

Can you do this while avoiding townies being able to identify or communicate with other townies?

Based on the little I know about the game, it would probably be easier to have the “town” as the main forum since the wolves and other roles potentially interact with the town, right? The wolves know who each other are, so that would make sense for them to have a separate area. That part of the logistics I didn’t really get into because the idea of the games having their own forums never took off, so I never really put much thought into what content went where. I mainly focused on what I was capable of doing with the forums and permissions.

 

[Kat]

I personally prefer to have the private conversations in PM, including the wolf chat. It's really easy to lose notifications during the day phase, and the separate notification for PMs makes it easy to tell when wolf team mates are talking.

People just need to quit meta gaming.

 

[Raine]

People just need to quit meta gaming.

I'm super curious who the nogoodnik is. But like...

If we're worried about people going to these lengths for cheating someone could literally obsessively watch post counts.

Rep/Reaction score and last login as well, if we're just putting it all out there. At minimum the latter of those happened on the OG forums.

When I jailed you and Kelly as the Warden, and you used the timestamp to determine guilt? That probably qualifies as unintended.

A lot of high-profile people used to spend more time in PMs and AIM/MSN than in the actual boards in the OG games, which... sort of went against the spirit of the entire thing too. Obviously some of our games already have rules for this.

If someone's determined enough, they'll find a way. So as with the above, best course of action is probably just making the hosts aware so they can stipulate what will and won't be allowed - and if they're found out, the player gets axed. Easy peasy.



@Fire Queen @Zell 17 @VashTheStampede @Tubby23 @Kat

So... mission accomplished? You're welcome.

 

[Kat]

When I jailed you and Kelly as the Warden, and you used the timestamp to determine guilt? That probably qualifies as unintended.

I was really disappointed Zell cooperated with that. It's 100% meta gaming (aka cheating*). So was people saying the confusion wolf couldn't be Tubby because he wasn't around, and people noting that blah blah thing happened while certain people were offline, and people sharing the wording of PMs. That's not the point of the game.

Whenever I host again, I'll make a note that sort of thing won't be tolerated. Punishments will range by anything from me intentionally misleading whoever engages in it to outing their role to straight up killing them.

*I shouldn't have called this cheating. I apologize.

 

[Raine]

I was really disappointed Zell cooperated with that. It's 100% meta gaming (aka cheating). So was people saying the confusion wolf couldn't be Tubby because he wasn't around, and people noting that blah blah thing happened while certain people were offline, and people sharing the wording of PMs. That's not the point of the game.

Functionally the only recourse for that would be to ignore it the one time, or kill both parties - can't put the worms back in that particular jar.

Things are definitely going to come up that y'all/we're not immediately thinking of, but the players will. Zell already makes pretty extensive use of action queuing - which has helped and hurt at various times - and that will negate a lot of it outright. But, still, things will get through.

The corrective action ultimately has to be that the players themselves agree to participate in good faith and maintain a fun, positive atmosphere. For themselves and one another; winning isn't the point.

 

[Mark]

Functionally the only recourse for that would be to ignore it the one time, or kill both parties - can't put the worms back in that particular jar.

Things are definitely going to come up that y'all/we're not immediately thinking of, but the players will. Zell already makes pretty extensive use of action queuing - which has helped and hurt at various times - and that will negate a lot of it outright. But, still, things will get through.

The corrective action ultimately has to be that the players themselves agree to participate in good faith and maintain a fun, positive atmosphere. For themselves and one another; winning isn't the point.

Ideally, this is what I’d hope for from where I’m sitting, simply because when I originally suggested breaking the wolf games into their own forums or user groups it was to encourage growth… whether it’s more active threads, longer games, or a larger format. The only role the permissions were intended to play were immersion elements, for lack of a better phrasing… I thought that seeing actual forums with layers of permissions based on who you were in the game would be a cool way to add more depth, especially after @VashTheStampede leaned into that storytelling element during his Mafia games later on. I’d hate to finally see it come to fruition only for restrictive purposes after it faced the criticism it faced back then.

 

[Kat]

Ideally, this is what I’d hope for from where I’m sitting, simply because when I originally suggested breaking the wolf games into their own forums or user groups it was to encourage growth… whether it’s more active threads, longer games, or a larger format. The only role the permissions were intended to play were immersion elements, for lack of a better phrasing… I thought that seeing actual forums with layers of permissions based on who you were in the game would be a cool way to add more depth, especially after @VashTheStampede leaned into that storytelling element during his Mafia games later on. I’d hate to finally see it come to fruition only for restrictive purposes after it faced the criticism it faced back then.

Most people won't be able to interact with anyone though. Only wolves know who's on their team. Unless you're suggesting having multiple game threads for everyone to participate in instead of just the one? Because that sounds like madness.

 

[shortkut]

Most people won't be able to interact with anyone though. Only wolves know who's on their team. Unless you're suggesting having multiple game threads for everyone to participate in instead of just the one? Because that sounds like madness.

Think of all the spamming discussions we can accomplish

 

[TD]

I was really disappointed Zell cooperated with that. It's 100% meta gaming (aka cheating).

This is what came out of that?

I want to clarify because that's not the case and I wouldn't do that.

I did not ask that. I asked if a weapon dropped and Kelly said yes almost immediately.