Zell Wolf Tough shit

[Raine]

Blind Wolf is pretty useless though. Sure we got a strong night 0 but there was a pretty indication by night 1 who people were and we had a hard time even picking who we wanted to see.

Yeah, hence the planning thing. Doing it blind (hurrhurr!) is going to leave a lot of viable options at the wayside.

I will say that a surprising number of townies did lie/layer claims effectively though, and that's awesome. We need more of that!

If I had to pick out our biggest blunder - it was us targeting Jawneh with Nightmare instead of Vash, but I don't know who Alu had targeted so even that may have backfired.

I would say it's Local and Kelly both relying on your false check and not laying claims for themselves on Day 1 was probably the biggest mistake. When the fingers started getting pointed, they both came up repeatedly on most people's lists because of that.

It's still going to be hard for the wolves to win - I did say as much in Day 2 lol - and especially if the Solo Killer isn't making successful kills. But that's normal and so I don't really weigh that too heavily.

 

[TD]

I really wonder if the town is gonna overthink this and blow it with what we had planned...

 

[TD]

I would say it's Local and Kelly both relying on your false check and not laying claims for themselves on Day 1 was probably the biggest mistake. When the fingers started getting pointed, they both came up repeatedly on most people's lists because of that.

Yeah - that too. Didn't help that Local basically wasn't around for work and that most my team was relatively quiet/busy.

 

[Tubby23]

I really wonder if the town is gonna overthink this and blow it with what we had planned...

It's delicately balanced from what I can tell. I think they still win though

 

[TD]

It's delicately balanced from what I can tell. I think they still win though

You don't know what's coming.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I knew it would happen. I was just hoping Jon would have done the obvious move of protecting Vash. He pointed out that he thought Vash and I were coupled in the sheet so I thought that meant people would figure it out.

Oh well. Glad we were able to figure out 3 of the wolves in the lovers chat.

Yeah I expected him to protect me. Ah well.

 

[TD]

Yeah I expected him to protect me. Ah well.

I had him nightmared but pulled it at the last minute (like 4:30am lmao) after I saw the whole "protect Tommy" thing.

...I also may have done all this privately with Zell out of paranoia.

 

[TD]

Oh also.

There was also a moment I posted in the Day Thread instead of the Wolf Chat and had to delete it.

That's what I get for playing high.

 

[Tubby23]

You don't know what's coming.

I know, but I'm going with my gut. Which is notoriously wrong

 

[TD]

I'm pretty confident they're going to second guess going for Local.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

I'm pretty confident they're going to second guess going for Local.

If only Jon protected Vash lol.

We totally were gunning for Local next if we were still alive. Benzine should 100% do that now that there's literally nothing to prove his innocence other than the exact same Bell Ringer play Benzine did as a wolf. I hope he jumps on it.

 

[TD]

If only Jon protected Vash lol.

We totally were gunning for Local next if we were still alive. Benzine should 100% do that now that there's literally nothing to prove his innocence other than the exact same Bell Ringer play Benzine did as a wolf. I hope he jumps on it.

Yeah, I definitely figured Vash would go for Local, didn't expect you though since we didn't know you were Cupid'd lol.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Yeah, I definitely figured Vash would go for Local, didn't expect you though since we didn't know you were Cupid'd lol.

I figured you wouldn't believe Vash's claim of why he protected me. I just thought it would have made you think we were coupled as opposed to going after your own team lol.

 

[TD]

I figured you wouldn't believe Vash's claim of why he protected me. I just thought it would have made you think we were coupled as opposed to going after your own team lol.

That would've been more logical but clearly that last Cupid game really did a number on me.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Also I independently thought Local was sus almost immediately after his Bell Ringer claim as an FYI. I actually forgot you "cleared" him on Day 1 and thought it was too far out there to get the wolf target correct on the second night with so many juicy targets out there.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I figured you wouldn't believe Vash's claim of why he protected me.

Honestly I was just hoping the whole "he's a confirmed townie" would do the heavy lifting for me because that explanation was some of the worst lying work I've ever done

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Honestly I was just hoping the whole "he's a confirmed townie" would do the heavy lifting for me because that explanation was some of the worst lying work I've ever done

"Uh he's playing looser in this game but also playing like he's trying to help me, but not caring while doing it."

*Protect*

 

[TD]

Honestly I was just hoping the whole "he's a confirmed townie" would do the heavy lifting for me because that explanation was some of the worst lying work I've ever done

I mean...

Your lie kinda worked but not how you intended.

 

[VashTheStampede]

"Uh he's playing looser in this game but also playing like he's trying to help me, but not caring while doing it."

*Protect*

Yeah good point, I crushed that shit

 

[TD]

In a way it's really poetic the way the 3 of us died.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Honestly I'm surprised no one other than Jon (at least on the surface) seemed to figure it out. I also completely ignored someone when they asked why I thought you protected me.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I immediately regretted outing Alu and admitting he was attacked because I should have at least thought it through but this was right after Zell's post about people watching what other players were doing and I was really annoyed that people would do shit like that, which goes against the concept of the game. Just wanted to post and be done with things for a bit and not get all wound up over that.

 

[Raine]

I haven't really seen too much of the thread yet, but: This Voodoo Wolf idea is super not great? The only way this works is if nobody alive understands what they're actually being asked to believe from a metagame perspective.

But even beyond that: Why Local, is what you have to ask as a townie. Does not remotely compute. This Voodoo Wolf targets nobody the first two days, then targets Tommy (makes sense), and then... Local? Who may or may not show up anyway because he's "busy." Over shortkut, who is a known entity and has been working with the town?

I get that it's not something that the wolves can control, and I get that technically everyone has suspicions so "the Voodoo Wolf doesn't want to exonerate anyone," but... but...

For someone like me, independent of knowing who they are, this play just blatantly outs Tommy as the final wolf.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

In a way it's really poetic the way the 3 of us died.

All we need now is @Christina to say she was the one who told kut to make the match.

 

[Christina]

I wish. If it was me I would have suggested Alu and TD instead of Vash.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

I haven't really seen too much of the thread yet, but: This Voodoo Wolf idea is super not great? The only way this works is if nobody alive understands what they're actually being asked to believe from a metagame perspective.

But even beyond that: Why Local, is what you have to ask as a townie. Does not remotely compute. This Voodoo Wolf targets nobody the first two days, then targets Tommy (makes sense), and then... Local? Who may or may not show up anyway because he's "busy." Over shortkut, who is a known entity and has been working with the town?

I get that it's not something that the wolves can control, and I get that technically everyone has suspicions so "the Voodoo Wolf doesn't want to exonerate anyone," but... but...

For someone like me, independent of knowing who they are, this play just blatantly outs Tommy as the final wolf.

For sure. Preacher is 100% a good voodoo target.

A spent and also unproven Bell Ringer? Nope.

 

[VashTheStampede]

NGL one of my favorite things about these games is Raine's dead thread posts.

Sure it blatantly reminds me that I'm operating at a lower analytical level than a lot of you, but I love the theory and analysis stuff. It's one of my big draws to watching sports too.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

I wish. If it was me I would have suggested Alu and TD instead of Vash.

And the wolf/townie match would have been made.

Also I'd have targeted Vash.

 

[TD]

I immediately regretted outing Alu and admitting he was attacked because I should have at least thought it through but this was right after Zell's post about people watching what other players were doing and I was really annoyed that people would do shit like that, which goes against the concept of the game. Just wanted to post and be done with things for a bit and not get all wound up over that.

I was mad about it too but for transparency.

Tommy figured it out when looking at online players a few minutes before the day phase and noticed us all showing as Engaged in Conversation so we panicked and thought we were fucked, so Zell got ahead of it.

It's unclear if anyone is or has been using it to their advantage.

 

[Tubby23]

I immediately regretted outing Alu and admitting he was attacked because I should have at least thought it through but this was right after Zell's post about people watching what other players were doing and I was really annoyed that people would do shit like that, which goes against the concept of the game. Just wanted to post and be done with things for a bit and not get all wound up over that.

Oh is this what was happening... Now things make a lot more sense to me.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Well Jon and Dean seem to be having a very good conversation.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I was mad about it too but for transparency.

Tommy figured it out when looking at online players a few minutes before the day phase and noticed us all showing as Engaged in Conversation so we panicked and thought we were fucked, so Zell got ahead of it.

It's unclear if anyone is or has been using it to their advantage.

Yeah I would have liked a comment along the lines of "I have no reason to believe if anyone HAS been doing it but now I know it's possible"

Because I took the post to mean "Someone's triflin"

 

[TD]

Yeah I would have liked a comment along the lines of "I have no reason to believe if anyone HAS been doing it but now I know it's possible"

Because I took the post to mean "Someone's triflin"

Yeah between that and another wolf incident for me, it's been a frustrating couple days of wolf for me.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Yeah I would have liked a comment along the lines of "I have no reason to believe if anyone HAS been doing it but now I know it's possible"

Because I took the post to mean "Someone's triflin"

Big same.

But I also thought "how would Zell know someone has been doing this unless the person who was doing this told Zell"

 

[Raine]

I was mad about it too but for transparency.

Tommy figured it out when looking at online players a few minutes before the day phase and noticed us all showing as Engaged in Conversation so we panicked and thought we were fucked, so Zell got ahead of it.

It's unclear if anyone is or has been using it to their advantage.

Oh... is that all? I thought we had some confirmed shenanigans or something to worry about.

Thankfully it's just paranoia.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Tommy, while on a team with TD in a game with Cupid involved...has paranoia?

You don't say.

 

[TD]

Oh... is that all? I thought we had some confirmed shenanigans or something to worry about.

Thankfully it's just paranoia.

I honestly feel like it's been used at one point or another by someone, there's no way it's gone this long unnoticed in my honest opinion.

 

[TD]

Tommy, while on a team with TD in a game with Cupid involved...has paranoia?

You don't say.

Fun story.

Tommy first read the kill post as I was Cupid'd.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Like I wouldn't call it crazy if TD accused Tommy and Tommy's response ended up being "shit am I in the couple? Can I trust myself?"

 

[TD]

Like I wouldn't call it crazy if TD accused Tommy and Tommy's response ended up being "shit am I in the couple? Can I trust myself?"

It didn't help MY paranoia that he went radio silent after Vash protected you either.

 

[Tubby23]

It didn't help MY paranoia that he went radio silent after Vash protected you either.

I'd be all kinds of panicked at that

 

[Raine]

I honestly feel like it's been used at one point or another by someone, there's no way it's gone this long unnoticed in my honest opinion.

Possibly? Definitely not unnoticed though. I mean I can tell you with absolute certainty that I've seen @Smacktard "Engaged in Conversation" many times over the last few months, because he's still on when I check in before work and that time period has only a couple of names in the online field. But I don't really think too much of it, and my track record with (not lmao) pinning wolves speaks to how effectively that would've been used on this end if nothing else? I'm sure I see Crystal, Mark and people like Webster in PMs a lot to as a result of accidental hovers and whatnot too.

Like, I do get the concern. I just haven't noticed anyone making hail mary gut checks on the regular and nailing people with exclusively open profiles. There's still a big gap between "engaged in conversation" and "this is my evidence for why this person is a wolf," so I'm not personally too worried.

For the super paranoid: The forum isn't a live tracker, so it just shows whatever thing you've opened last. My profile has always been open, and I've always just opened a PM in a new tab and immediately clicked to something else (the main page, the active thread, whatever) after and the latter's what's shown. That's the thing I mentioned before that's not super convenient on mobile/in the app.

 

[Aluse Cannon]

Benzine seems to be aligning with Jon, Jawneh, and Dean so far. Just need Kut to jump on board.

It'll be interesting to see how Tommy responds to this if the plan is to have Local stay silent today. He'd be unable to defend himself, and if he does come back and post then the idea of a voodoo wolf should vanish.

 

[Raine]

if he does come back and post then the idea of a voodoo wolf should vanish.

You reckon Tommy's either willing or has the chops to lie to everyone's face and say Local was trying to pull a fast one? Would people actually believe him?

I think it would only last for the one day, but the thought fascinates me.

 

[TD]

Yeah.. it could be over but we've also seen towns over think and implode before.

...and I'm giving this a 90% town win chance.

That avenger kill really blew the whole thing open.

 

[Raine]

Not from a lack of trying though, to be sure.

Let it not be said that y'all - wolves and townies alike - haven't played a real good game here.

 

[Smacktard]

Sup I'm trying to get caught up but

Nothing new in here, literally just copy-pasting. And I'll take a pass on the post-game smack-talk and discussion, I think. It is what it is.

(Insert blind wolf discussions)

Spoiler

Yeah by the end of Night 1 we had no need for any wolf seers but we had 3. Two blind wolves is completely redundant, a wolf seer is just taking the piss. If one of us had an alpha wolf, it would've completely changed the tides.

As for talk about strong/weak townies, the bully is classified as strong, but I'd argue that the witch is stronger. Vash pulled off a kill AND a protection, which significantly altered the game as a result. What would the bully have done? Made us unable to use a night seer? We should've kept the bully alive another night and gone after Vash.

So IMO "strong" isn't always a helpful seer result, and we'd be better off targetting normal roles occasionally. If we'd hit an avenger, it's likely they'd have taken out a townie based on what I've read so far.

 

[TD]

Completely agree with Kelly.

Getting stuck with two blind wolfs and a wolf seer was utter trash. We didn't really have any weapons.

 

[TD]

2x Bully is not a way I would've liked to start the game either, but yeah - is what it is.

The ONLY advantage of Blind Seer is avoiding Spirit Seer.

 

[Smacktard]

Also I said it before in the wolf chat but I'll say it again here:
I think it's stupid that someone can claim avenger and then hold the town hostage by saying they'll kill a townie if they get lynched
literally WHAT

Also also, I think if I hadn't been away much of my day, I maybe could've fought to stay alive. I thought the "lynch Dean, Dean tag me" gambit made the most sense from a pure stats PoV. It's a shame I only became active when everyone else had already gone to bed and there was no time to influence the vote :/