Zell Wolf The Cemetary

[TD]

Literally the only thing I got wrong was Jawneh and Tubby flipped. I’ve been reading the dead thread and you’ve been wrong on like 70% of your guesses. Lol

It was one of your earlier role match up posts I said that to, not the later ones where you did get it right.

You may have missed it, but I was taking the neutral investigator role on this where I wasn't genuinely trying to guess who people were, I was just throwing out all the possibilies.

If the Conjuror did come in here, I would've felt awkward about having genuinely contributed like a dead townie.

I also really wanted Vash to be the Instigator early on but it became pretty obvious he wasn't.

Why on earth would we have lynched Benzine? Or were you thinking the wolves would have won the vote and picked him?

Again - all the possibilities. Town targets and possible shadow targets.

 

[Ants!]

It was one of your earlier role match up posts I said that to, not the later ones where you did get it right.

Ah okay, gotcha. Yeah in the beginning I still had a few left to guess at.

Also why did yall think I was instigated?

 

[A Punched Face]

FYI my other option for a night 1 kill was player 12 so we would have either killed shortkut or @Tommy Boy off the bat to ensure game consistency of one or both of them dying early.

 

[Smacktard]

Because with the shadow wolf power in play, the only thing that mattered was unification in the vote. We already had the wolves and the instigator pegged, what did it matter which order we killed them?

I must've missed how you had all pegged Alu (thank God for that), or even Tubby by that point. The town sounded very confused and unsure of who to vote for, but Jawneh was absolutely the most suspect and you made the right call voting him off in the end, which is why I couldn't figure out why you were pivoting away from him.

I didn’t expect there to be a second shadow. Also why does it matter?

Fair with the shadow, but best to keep it private IMO. It puts a huge target on your back for the wolves since you could outvote the remaining wolves alone, almost, but in the ended it didn't matter.

tl;dr edit: yeah like TD, check the timings, I don't think you had Alu/Tubby figured out by the time I made that post

 

[VashTheStampede]

Vash even said "I haven't read the roles so I might be wrong" and no one has even touched on that.

This was true every time I said it btw.

 

[TD]

This was true every time I said it btw.

It's too bad you and shortkut weren't the recruits.

Match made in heaven.

(sorry Christina)

 

[Fool's Requiem]

@Altoona Pizza Who used their Shadow ability in the first and second day. Was trying to figure it out by way of who was active at the time, but I guessed Local did it day two because he was the only active one.

 

[Tubby23]

Dude, the whole town had figured out all the roles before day 1 ended.

Except for Dr Tubby

 

[Ants!]

I must've missed how you had all pegged Alu (thank God for that), or even Tubby by that point. The town sounded very confused and unsure of who to vote for, but Jawneh was absolutely the most suspect and you made the right call voting him off in the end, which is why I couldn't figure out why you were pivoting away from him.

Fair with the shadow, but best to keep it private IMO. It puts a huge target on your back for the wolves since you could outvote the remaining wolves alone, almost, but in the ended it didn't matter.

tl;dr edit: yeah like TD, check the timings, I don't think you had Alu/Tubby figured out by the time I made that post

Like I said, by then we had the full list, so the main priority was keeping all our votes the same. If others wanted to vote off Alu or Local I was fine with it because I was equally confident in all of them. About the only thing I wasn’t 100% on yet was Vash/Local, but Local was growing more and more sus by focusing on Vash so much and not getting in line with Unification (same with Tubby).

Also, sorry for not checking the time stamps first. Hugs.

 

[TD]

@Altoona Pizza Who used their Shadow ability in the first and second day. Was trying to figure it out by way of who was active at the time, but I guessed Local did it day two because he was the only active one.

He already mentioned it but Day 1 was Tubby, but Zell lets you say "use it at this time", likely for this very reason.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Reason #122 I'm insane:

If I was a wolf I wouldn't have killed anyone last night

 

[Ants!]

Except for Dr Tubby

True, had you and Jawneh flipped, but as the instigated pair it didn’t matter much in the end anyway. Besides, I had your number before the end.

 

[TD]

Reason #122 I'm insane:

If I was a wolf I wouldn't have killed anyone last night

 

[Raine]

Also why did yall think I was instigated?

I just wanted to believe my compatriots weren’t as completely fucked into oblivion as they were.

Zell revealed early on the Doc was the instigated, but I willfully refused to believe!

 

[Zell 17]

Yeah that was a tough draw too, the evils got the least useful member instigated. Would be a lot nicer to have an aura seer or bully or really anyone else.

 

[TD]

An instigated Conjuror could be hilarious too.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Give the spirit seers nothing to work with and double down on Vash Is Evil. Let the instigator begin a reign of terror.

Of course, Raposuh's self-immolation would not have helped. But that's where my head was.

 

[Ants!]

Yeah that was a tough draw too, the evils got the least useful member instigated. Would be a lot nicer to have an aura seer or bully or really anyone else.

It did rob the town of one of our only two protectors though.

 

[VashTheStampede]

At that point things were looking bleak so do something crazy

 

[TD]

Give the spirit seers nothing to work with and double down on Vash Is Evil. Let the instigator begin a reign of terror.

Of course, Raposuh's self-immolation would not have helped. But that's where my head was.

I think that's just over thinking it at that point, especially since it was figured out Day 2.

 

[Ants!]

An instigated Conjuror could be hilarious too.

I still got ptsd from a cupided medium

 

[VashTheStampede]

I think that's just over thinking it at that point, especially since it was figured out Day 2.

Me? Overthink things? That's unpossible.

It was that or roll over. Might as well have some fun on the way out.

 

[TD]

I still got ptsd from a cupided medium

Just imagine the discussion though.

Wolves kill the Bully.
Conjuror takes that ability.
Rinse and repeat.

 

[Ants!]

True, it would have beed a different scenario with mimicking powers, no rez, and not ever seeing dead chat.

 

[TD]

And let's face it. Conjuror wouldn't want to see this dead chat.

Speaking of, the game is over and Benzine is still asleep.

 

[Zell 17]

If the wolves had killed benzine night 2 and he showed as Spirit Seer, I wonder how long it would have taken the village to realize he wasn't a random villager.

 

[TD]

I really wanted that to happen.

It could've caused the town to spiral.

 

[TD]

Also why did yall think I was instigated?

I don't think I ever said you were - I definitely said it'd be hilarious if you were with that voting power.

 

[Ants!]

Okay someone clued me in, and it makes sense now. Yall thought I might be instigated because a wolf buddy could have told me to watch Kelly to gain another vote.

 

[Ants!]

I don't think I ever said you were - I definitely said it'd be hilarious if you were with that voting power.

Shadow wolves plus a powered-up instigated preacher? Nevermind the secrecy of the vote or the closed wolf chat, baddies could have just come out and said who to vote for and there would have been no way to outvote them. Scary, lol

 

[Raine]

Okay someone clued me in, and it makes sense now. Yall thought I might be instigated because a wolf buddy could have told me to watch Kelly to gain another vote.

As a wolfie facade, yes. "The wolves just killed the Aura Seer, Ants just got +1, there's a turncoat amongst us - are we to believe the protector(s) didn't cover the Aura Seer?"

Would have been one of the many, many branches I hit while falling to my death had I made it out of the starting pen unscathed.

 

[Ants!]

Vote off the flagger, kill the bully at night, basically game over at that point. And preacher guaranteed to get his x4 power with the inside info.

 

[TD]

Yup - it really highlights how heavy the RNG factor in this is.

 

[A Punched Face]

Shadow wolves plus a powered-up instigated preacher? Nevermind the secrecy of the vote or the closed wolf chat, baddies could have just come out and said who to vote for and there would have been no way to outvote them. Scary, lol

Yeah, Preacher would have been the ultimate get here. Double shadow (if needed) to get the townie numbers down and preacher gaining voting power, then pick off the rest in broad daylight and figure out the right time to see which non-town team would win.

 

[Raine]

Yeah that was a tough draw too, the evils got the least useful member instigated. Would be a lot nicer to have an aura seer or bully or really anyone else.

It did rob the town of one of our only two protectors though.

From my perspective: Greatly diminishes/devalues the Berserk Werewolf.

If there's nothing to penetrate, it's just a Normal/Vanilla Werewolf with more flavor text.

This one isn't so much asymmetrical balancing as it is bog standard "I hate procedurally generated video games" carrying over to things like this. Give me a considered, nuanced game board conjured up from the most insane, troll-y depths of Zell's brain any day. Win or lose, at least I can be guaranteed to have fun with that.

Losing just because RNG says so? That's lame.

 

[Tubby23]

@Altoona Pizza Who used their Shadow ability in the first and second day. Was trying to figure it out by way of who was active at the time, but I guessed Local did it day two because he was the only active one.

First day was me, second day was Alu.

I asked for Zell to start mine 4 hours into the day phase for a couple of reasons, 1) it would be 2-3 hours after I was asleep so look less like it was me and 2) I was hoping that it would be when you were all kid way through shit posting but instead Vash big brained 1 and 16 lol

 

[VashTheStampede]

Yesterday was... less than great. I mean, yeah, obviously in terms of the game. But, on a personal level because of the game. I don't know how to address it, or if I should address it. I made and deleted a lot of posts. Weighing the fun of everyone versus my own well-being is hard. Especially when I know I'm at least being partially irrational about it. Extra especially because I'm acutely aware of people that aren't responsible, but that are equally sensitive and will get upset if I say anything. And I don't want that.

I need a table to flip. And some cats to cuddle. Only two of mine ever want to, and only at like 2:30 in the damn morning.



The commentary posts were great @TD!

I do honestly feel bad about basically ruining the game for you. The tactic was something I honestly would NEVER have done before the way the previous game ended up going. I had always put way more value on  everyone having fun than finding an optimal strategy and caring only about results.

That's also why I'm typically against role claims in general, because it speeds the game up way too much and people get fewer chances to do things.

When I decide to play again, I'm gonna go back to being that other guy again. I like him more.

 

[Zell 17]

From my perspective: Greatly diminishes/devalues the Berserk Werewolf.

Losing just because RNG says so? That's lame.

I agree with this. The RNG in terms of roles is there to put the seed of doubt in everyone's mind behind EVERY claim.

The RNG where you got checked and outed day 1 and the preacher became provable? Yeah, that just sucks.

 

[A Punched Face]

I would like to say that this game wasn't ruined for me. I still had fun.

It was great to see how quickly everything could spiral out of control into utter despair.

 

[Zell 17]

I will say that the number 6 has been pretty heavily looked into in the last two games. IDK why.

 

[TD]

To be honest - I hate Shadow Wolf, even as a wolf.

Does it have a niche use? Yeah.

But cutting off communication for 24 hours of every 36 hours sucks.

You can't adjust plans, some players benefit from bouncing ideas off eachother, less experienced players may want advice, you can't pivot during the events of the day, can't tell someone to get more aggressive, dial it back, or claim a specific role...

 

[VashTheStampede]

I will say that the number 6 has been pretty heavily looked into in the last two games. IDK why.

ANOTHER reason I was happy with going 1/16. Less chance I check someone that any other seer checks.

 

[Zell 17]

ANOTHER reason I was happy with going 1/16. Less chance I check someone that any other seer checks.

Whoops.

Kelly and shortkut both checked 1 also. Imagine how Ben would feel as a wolf with three people calling him evil day 1 lol

 

[VashTheStampede]

Whoops.

Kelly and shortkut both checked 1 also. Imagine how Ben would feel as a wolf with three people calling him evil day 1 lol

For the record, I never claimed it was good logic. Quite the opposite.

 

[Raine]

I do honestly feel bad about basically ruining the game for you. The tactic was something I honestly would NEVER have done before the way the previous game ended up going. I had always put way more value on  everyone having fun than finding an optimal strategy and caring only about results.

Don't, please. This line:

Extra especially because I'm acutely aware of people that aren't responsible, but that are equally sensitive and will get upset if I say anything. And I don't want that.

Is specifically about you.

I think, ultimately, my brain was going to come off the rails a bit in this scenario regardless. It's just not equipped to deal with this very precise series of events at this speed, yadda yadda. I'm fine. You're fine. There was no lashing out, no drama, I get an extended weekend nerding the fuck out with muh mechas. It's all gravy.

I just need to be careful and throw in the towel more often.



And the thing is, and I think this one was posted and not deleted, I fully believe both myself and Ben would have been viable candidates for your checks without the random numbers being there. You were going to get me, you needed to get me, that's how the game is played.

It's also why I don't think Zell's balance idea is going to work. A handful of us could play that way, absolutely railroad people, but... they/we don't want to. It's not going to be fun for people. Y'know?

 

[Zell 17]

To be honest - I hate Shadow Wolf, even as a wolf.

Does it have a niche use? Yeah.

But cutting off communication for 24 hours of every 36 hours sucks.

You can't adjust plans, some players benefit from bouncing ideas off eachother, less experienced players may want advice, you can't pivot during the events of the day, can't tell someone to get more aggressive, dial it back, or claim a specific role...

Well maybe we can talk about a way to adjust it. What I'm trying to avoid is everyone going in wolf chat and saying "Vote this person" with information that they've gotten during the day. When used correctly the 2x shadow wolves can be basically game breaking, you are taking every kill opportunity the village has and using it against the village. The closing of wolf chat is trying to at the very least curb it's use against the most powerful village roles.

Also I like the idea that the wolves have to kind of "organize in the open". You guys were trying to use codes to communicate who to vote for day 2. Love that.

 

[Smacktard]

Whoops.

Kelly and shortkut both checked 1 also. Imagine how Ben would feel as a wolf with three people calling him evil day 1 lol

I only chose 1 because I was 2, and thought "lmao who the fuck checks 1"

 

[Zell 17]

I only chose 1 because I was 2, and thought "lmao who the fuck checks 1"

shortkut I'm guessing put a lot of thought into "I check 1 and 2"

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Shadow Wolf ruined my "fucking around" time. I needed to take the game seriously after that. I have lots of fun shitposting on day one.

 

[A Punched Face]

No more RNG. Random strategy generation time.