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Zell Wolf GWF Zell Wolf Version XI Day 6

Who should the villagers lynch? (3 votes required)


  • Total voters
    14
  • Poll closed .
You didn't do anything wrong, unless you did something privately that I haven't seen which I doubt.
Nope, played the game by the rules. There were a few times I almost outed them as my couple because I feared one of them was a wolf and that was going to lead to problems, but I also felt compelled to give them a chance to try. That's why I kind of got sloppy on Day 4-5. I felt like I was supposed to be helping the town, but any time I spoke, I never addressed TD or Raine. Not once the whole game. By this point, it was getting hard to ignore them in their own corner. I tried not putting any suspicion on them. Then I pulled the HH bluff and that REALLY fucked things up in my opinion. It made sure nobody voted for Benzine (well, almost!). So after that botch, and feeling like TD was getting pissed, I stopped posting except to say Skip. We never communicated outside the thread, but I could almost tell when he was annoyed with the situation, so I bailed.
 

VashTheStampede

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I'm half furious and half in awe that @Dean was a wolf. I sincerely felt bad about how frustrated you were that people doubted you! And you were eating people at night the whole time!
I can definitely appreciate the play on paper. It was very effective and set him up to win.

I'll leave it at that for now.
 
Okay, so here's the deal. Vash had me pegged early, as some of you did. I was the Wolf Seer. TD was the Nightmare Wolf. Jon was Alpha, Jawneh was Blind, you guys already knew that.

TD was our main strategist in a lot of ways. He took the lead early, especially after we accidentally got Jawneh lynched (sorry Jawneh). It did help establish some cred, a play Jawneh mentioned doing anyway.

So as the game progresses, Jon is legit busy but laying low, TD and I are staging arguments, etc. After Jon takes his first shot, or around that time, TD drops the bombshell that he was coupled with Raine, who was the Detective. TD laid out some of the plans but not everything.

Jon and I from the very beginning said if any of us were coupled, just do what you gotta do. No worries. Play to your win condition, like we all should be doing. So yeah, business as usual.

TD starts telling me the game is pretty much going to be a town win or Cupid win, and that the wolves wouldn't win. At that point, we had eight players left. Tommy as Cupid, TD as coupled wolf, Raine as coupled townie, me as Wolf, and four real townies.

I started doing the math and realized I COULD win, but I would have to resign my seer powers right away. Resigning my seer powers gave me the ability to vote to kill, and I would be higher ranking than TD. I verified all this with Zell. Note that this was after the tone had changed, TD became a bit bossier and annoyed over the game, the fact it was taking too long etc. We were all getting impatient, but he was noticeably moreso, at least to me.

So anyway, TD wanted me to secure the win for the Cupid team. He got pissed that I resigned my powers without consulting with him, even though he was planning to fuck me over. His primary win condition is to win with Cupid and the coupled player. His secondary way to win is as a wolf. He was playing to his primary, and I was playing to my primary.

I realized if I killed Vash and brought it down to seven, kill Tubby today and eliminate the threat of the beast hunter's trap and bring it down to six, and then kill Tommy tonight and eliminate the 3 player advantage that the Cupid and Couple Trio had, it would lead to there being TD, Raine, Benzine, Kat, and Dean. Raine and TD would vote for Benzine or Kat our of self-preservation or vote for me out of spite, but with me being the primary killing role at night and the only real power outside of a lynch, I just had to make sure that there was a tie or that the couple did not get lynched. If I got to the next night, I would kill Kat or Benzine, and that would lead to TD and Dean surviving with two townies.

I checked with Zell, and under those conditions, the wolves would win. It was within our grasp. But TD got pissed for whatever reason. I think he felt like I betrayed him? I don't get it, not being dense or whatever for once. He was perfectly happy to tell me that I was fucked and there was no way I could win, but when I took control of my own destiny, he got pissed because he had no power in the game anymore.

Anyway, back to the game. I wanted to prove to Cole, Zell, and everybody else, that someone CAN be a big enough piece of shit to win as a wolf. It was never easy, and I used Raine and TD through most of the game, but she thought that they were using me. When the tables were turned, apparently that wasn't cool. I don't agree.

I'm actually not proud of being a piece of shit in the game. I told TD, Jon, and others that everybody is going to hate me after this. I did what nobody else was willing to do and used emotional manipulation, which admittedly, is what Zell wanted us to do. It's the point of the game.

I channeled my real insecurities, used real feelings I've had before of incompetence and frustration. I put myself in the role of a clueless, irritated, sad player who couldn't figure shit out, which garnered enough sympathy that I weaseled out of several close calls, like Kat's Loudmouth play, Ben's Judge play, and several other close calls. I was a big fraud, a piece of shit, and I connived every other player in the game except maybe Jon.

I apologize. It wasn't really worth it in the end. I don't agree with TD or Raine being butthurt because they were going to fuck me over first, but I do feel bad about deceiving the rest of you, and if TD is legitimately this upset, then I feel horrible because even if I don't agree with why he is mad, it doesn't mean I want him to be, and I definitely don't want him to quit the whole forum over it.

I was fixated on being the first wolf player to actually win under Zell's rules. I was willing to do absolutely anything. I crossed some lines, but I was willing to, and I own up to my actions. If you all hate me, then I'm sorry that I was a fucking conniving horrible piece of shit.
 
I started doing the math and realized I COULD win, but I would have to resign my seer powers right away. Resigning my seer powers gave me the ability to vote to kill, and I would be higher ranking than TD. I verified all this with Zell. Note that this was after the tone had changed, TD became a bit bossier and annoyed over the game, the fact it was taking too long etc. We were all getting impatient, but he was noticeably moreso, at least to me.

So anyway, TD wanted me to secure the win for the Cupid team. He got pissed that I resigned my powers without consulting with him, even though he was planning to fuck me over. His primary win condition is to win with Cupid and the coupled player. His secondary way to win is as a wolf. He was playing to his primary, and I was playing to my primary.

I realized if I killed Vash and brought it down to seven, kill Tubby today and eliminate the threat of the beast hunter's trap and bring it down to six, and then kill Tommy tonight and eliminate the 3 player advantage that the Cupid and Couple Trio had, it would lead to there being TD, Raine, Benzine, Kat, and Dean. Raine and TD would vote for Benzine or Kat our of self-preservation or vote for me out of spite, but with me being the primary killing role at night and the only real power outside of a lynch, I just had to make sure that there was a tie or that the couple did not get lynched. If I got to the next night, I would kill Kat or Benzine, and that would lead to TD and Dean surviving with two townies.
This is why I stopped posting. I knew he had some plan like this and was encouraging you guys to follow along. Only you could take control of your destiny and win, like you said. You played to your win condition.
I checked with Zell, and under those conditions, the wolves would win. It was within our grasp. But TD got pissed for whatever reason. I think he felt like I betrayed him? I don't get it, not being dense or whatever for once. He was perfectly happy to tell me that I was fucked and there was no way I could win, but when I took control of my own destiny, he got pissed because he had no power in the game anymore.
Yeah once I realized I paired a wolf and townie, I knew this was a possibility. I was afraid he was going to be upset, but more afraid to out him and be the reason he's pissed more.
I used Raine and TD through most of the game, but she thought that they were using me. When the tables were turned, apparently that wasn't cool. I don't agree.
I understand this and believe you did the right thing for yourself.
I'm actually not proud of being a piece of shit in the game. I told TD, Jon, and others that everybody is going to hate me after this. I did what nobody else was willing to do and used emotional manipulation, which admittedly, is what Zell wanted us to do. It's the point of the game.
Quite possibly your best game yet. Which is why this end result sucks, because you did fuckin great at fooling everyone.
I channeled my real insecurities, used real feelings I've had before of incompetence and frustration. I put myself in the role of a clueless, irritated, sad player who couldn't figure shit out, which garnered enough sympathy that I weaseled out of several close calls, like Kat's Loudmouth play, Ben's Judge play, and several other close calls. I was a big fraud, a piece of shit, and I connived every other player in the game except maybe Jon.
Not a piece of shit. You were playing to your win condition and fucking slaying my dude. Try not to beat yourself up.
I apologize. It wasn't really worth it in the end. I don't agree with TD or Raine being butthurt because they were going to fuck me over first, but I do feel bad about deceiving the rest of you, and if TD is legitimately this upset, then I feel horrible because even if I don't agree with why he is mad, it doesn't mean I want him to be, and I definitely don't want him to quit the whole forum over it.
Nobody wants anybody to quit but in the end, you're still not the reason man. The choice is TD's and only TD's to leave. You played the game the way it is to be played. No fair to penalize you for that.
I was fixated on being the first wolf player to actually win under Zell's rules. I was willing to do absolutely anything. I crossed some lines, but I was willing to, and I own up to my actions. If you all hate me, then I'm sorry that I was a fucking conniving horrible piece of shit.
Nah man I have a lot of respect for you. Please pick your head up, and realize you played like a fuckin' G. Seriously. Props.
 
Dewey Cox the wrong kid died GIF by Leroy Patterson


Not relevant, but it popped in my head and I enjoy this scene. Don't read into this lol
 
It's a real grey area to me, I agree from a game sense that all win conditions were played to but in the grander scheme of things and also this thread ( https://gwforums.com/threads/how-do-you-cope-with-a-serious-illness-in-the-family.597/ ) I think perhaps both sides of the story exist

I know this doesn't really matter, but I didn't know he had that going on. To be honest, outside of this forum, wrestling discussion, and the occasional adulting thread, I don't generally read much. I did check out the "smoke weed everyday" thread the other night out of curiosity.

I do feel horrible that TD has that going on, but like I said, he was literally going to fuck me over. He picked Raine over me, as he technically should. TD was going to win WITH me (and Jon and Jawneh), but he got mad when I took the power out of his hands.

I didn't even think that what I did to TD was that bad. He, Jon, and I were all aware of my posts that I felt were worse, as far as manipulating emotions, etc. All I did with TD was something within the rules to block him from cutting me out of a win.
 

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I know this doesn't really matter, but I didn't know he had that going on. To be honest, outside of this forum, wrestling discussion, and the occasional adulting thread, I don't generally read much. I did check out the "smoke weed everyday" thread the other night out of curiosity.

I do feel horrible that TD has that going on, but like I said, he was literally going to fuck me over. He picked Raine over me, as he technically should. TD was going to win WITH me (and Jon and Jawneh), but he got mad when I took the power out of his hands.

I didn't even think that what I did to TD was that bad. He, Jon, and I were all aware of my posts that I felt were worse, as far as manipulating emotions, etc. All I did with TD was something within the rules to block him from cutting me out of a win.
Sorry I should be clear I'm not saying that necessarily changes your actions, but I'm trying to help people see why TD may be really upset at the moment or may not have accepted the way you were playing.
 

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I was fixated on being the first wolf player to actually win under Zell's rules. I was willing to do absolutely anything. I crossed some lines, but I was willing to, and I own up to my actions. If you all hate me, then I'm sorry that I was a fucking conniving horrible piece of shit.
Conniving, yes. Piece of shit, no. Of course there was always the possibility that you were faking it. Every time I said something reassuring to you, there was a voice going "you're going to feel really silly when he turns out to be a wolf!" But that's what made your claim so good, it really could've gone either way.

It might've actually been better for you if you had let me die, though. I would've died that day instead of Jon being hit, the town would've killed you the next day, which would have left Jon as the alpha, who takes two hits to kill and can break vote ties.

Who killed Kut? Was it Jon? Why did somebody take that risk?

Lmao

Shit maybe TD had the right idea
About what? Hopefully not quitting?!
 
Sorry I should be clear I'm not saying that necessarily changes your actions, but I'm trying to help people see why TD may be really upset at the moment or may not have accepted the way you were playing.

I get it. That's heavy stuff to be dealing with real life. TD and I were on the same page about 80% of the game. He targeted Jumpman early before we realized he was the Corruptor. I had wanted to go after a bigger target.

Conniving, yes. Piece of shit, no. Of course there was always the possibility that you were faking it. Every time I said something reassuring to you, there was a voice going "you're going to feel really silly when he turns out to be a wolf!" But that's what made your claim so good, it really could've gone either way.

It might've actually been better for you if you had let me die, though. I would've died that day instead of Jon being hit, the town would've killed you the next day, which would have left Jon as the alpha, who takes two hits to kill and can break vote ties.

Who killed Kut? Was it Jon? Why did somebody take that risk?


About what? Hopefully not quitting?!

Letting you out me was on our minds. Jon was not going to be as active, and I don't think he would've been able to resort to the ridiculous web of lies that I did to stay in the game.

TD was jailed with shortkut. Somehow TD and Raine figured out that Kelly was the Warden. I think Raine used her Detective powers and TD took a big gamble.
 

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The only thing I am going to say right now, because there are too many emotions all ready flooding this thread, is we know TD was going to be away for a couple weeks with his family for the holidays starting in a couple days.

I personally hope he takes that time for himself and maybe he returns to give this all another shot (the forums not necessarily the games). Some of us have known each other for 25 years... And I don't think a single one of us wants to take any personal shots knowingly to hurt anyone.

I love all you guys and I hate seeing things like this. There is a natural instinct in me to try and fix things, and there are some things you cannot fix, cannot control or shouldn't involve yourself in. And this is MY personal hell I am dealing with in this emotional fall out.
 

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TD picked most of the kill targets. I couldn't vote, and Jon would pick the primary I think and TD picked secondary (unless I got that flipped). I disagreed with a couple but they had the call.
No, you are right, mine was primary. But I was busy enough with work I didn't have time to analyze the targets or question them.
 

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I apologize. It wasn't really worth it in the end. I don't agree with TD or Raine being butthurt because they were going to fuck me over first, but I do feel bad about deceiving the rest of you, and if TD is legitimately this upset, then I feel horrible because even if I don't agree with why he is mad, it doesn't mean I want him to be, and I definitely don't want him to quit the whole forum over it.
Maybe you don't care to have my feedback, but I'll give it freely and you can decide whether to take it or leave it.

You don't need to apologize to me for lying about your role. It's literally what the game is about. The character you play in a game about deception does not represent who you are as a person, a real person. I don't see anything wrong with the way you played the game. In fact, I thought you were kicking ass. It would've been foolish to give up your chance of winning the game when you had a clear path ahead.
 
Maybe you don't care to have my feedback, but I'll give it freely and you can decide whether to take it or leave it.

You don't need to apologize to me for lying about your role. It's literally what the game is about. The character you play in a game about deception does not represent who you are as a person, a real person. I don't see anything wrong with the way you played the game. In fact, I thought you were kicking ass. It would've been foolish to give up your chance of winning the game when you had a clear path ahead.

I appreciate everybody's feedback, and yours definitely carries weight. You're one of the best players.

I know this isn't the same as me swearing on my daughter's life that I was a townie. I just felt bad that a lot of people felt genuine sympathy for me being inept. I had to play to my "strengths", which were really weaknesses.
 

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Hey dead thread people, here's the post I refused to make earlier:

It's not even just having serious illness in the family.

People struggle with anxiety and depression and similar shit on the daily without needing a catastrophic event to justify shit being hard.

We are out here celebrating someone using these very real feelings to manipulate people for a fucking game. High fiving and shit.

Dean, you're right. I fucking had you from the start. Dead to rights, exactly what you were up to.

Then comes the anxiety talk. And the wanting to quit over it.

I immediately tried to help you. Wanted to support you. Told you about how I just had to sit out of a game because I was dealing with shit too. What a big fucking moron I was. Oh boy, ya got me!

And then when it became obvious that you played me, I wasn't even mad at you. You played the game. I was mad at myself for caring. That's fucked.

I think I am a much different and, honestly, better person than I was in the old GW days. I chalk that up to appreciating empathy. I feel like if the world had more empathy, we'd be in a much better place.

I don't want to participate in something where you're celebrated for toying with people. Raine has it right, IMO. Lying within the confines of the game? Hell yeah, all day long.

You cannot fuck with people's emotions and act surprised when people get emotional.

That's why I'm out.
 

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Letting you out me was on our minds. Jon was not going to be as active, and I don't think he would've been able to resort to the ridiculous web of lies that I did to stay in the game.
I think it wouldn't have mattered. You all could've dropped the ruse yesterday because you had the numbers.

Obviously your plan was fine too, mostly just noting my big plan to out you would've made no difference even if you hadn't managed to escape it.

The actual turning point was Jump, I think. If we'd kept him alive, we could've finished off Jon the same night we lynched him the first time and then gone after you the next day.

This is right. TD asked me to seer check Kelly to be sure. Raine had narrowed it down somehow before that with the Detective power.
Wild. The detective role shouldn't have helped, though. They already knew who was on each team (except maybe Jump). So a combination of luck, process of elimination, and good reads? Impressive move, to be sure.
 
Hey dead thread people, here's the post I refused to make earlier:

It's not even just having serious illness in the family.

People struggle with anxiety and depression and similar shit on the daily without needing a catastrophic event to justify shit being hard.

We are out here celebrating someone using these very real feelings to manipulate people for a fucking game. High fiving and shit.

Dean, you're right. I fucking had you from the start. Dead to rights, exactly what you were up to.

Then comes the anxiety talk. And the wanting to quit over it.

I immediately tried to help you. Wanted to support you. Told you about how I just had to sit out of a game because I was dealing with shit too. What a big fucking moron I was. Oh boy, ya got me!

And then when it became obvious that you played me, I wasn't even mad at you. You played the game. I was mad at myself for caring. That's fucked.

I think I am a much different and, honestly, better person than I was in the old GW days. I chalk that up to appreciating empathy. I feel like if the world had more empathy, we'd be in a much better place.

I don't want to participate in something where you're celebrated for toying with people. Raine has it right, IMO. Lying within the confines of the game? Hell yeah, all day long.

You cannot fuck with people's emotions and act surprised when people get emotional.

That's why I'm out.

I'm not surprised at all. Jon, TD, and I literally talked about it in our wolf private conversation. TD was on board with me doing it, even celebrating my posts, which is why it surprised me that he had the reaction he did. I'm not trying to make him look like a bad guy; just giving perspective that others don't have.

As far as anxiety, I was so deep into those "wow is me, I suck" posts, that when you posted about real depression, I was too far in (IMO of course, a better human being would've pulled back and taken the L).

But I wasn't lying just for me. I was lying for my whole team, and I was trying to win the game. That being said, I did have real anxiety - my eye has been twitching nonstop for the last week, this game has had my nerves completely shot. Pretty sure my wife is over it. I may have to sit out a few. I'll still do the Aussie game, though.

I am sorry if I made people expose their real human emotion. I tapped into mine, I guess like a method actor or whatever the proper comparison would be. I used my real emotions, which I've felt before - like when I was Avenger and about to be lynched while I was too busy and my family was sick.

I don't want to make anybody feel bad for having sympathy. I think shit got too real for a bit. I've been dealing with it too, not saying that excuses it. My eye twitching, sleeplessness, feelings of guilt, etc. It was horrible.
 

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You cannot fuck with people's emotions and act surprised when people get emotional.
I am NOT defending playing with emotions or speaking directly to your other comments, because I do not want to invalidate your feelings or make you think or feel like I'm devaluing your feelings. I hope you know I have respected the FUCK out of you for 20+ years.

But I CAN speak to this one quote because I was in the chat when Dean was posting this stuff. Not counting how YOU felt, I do know that TD asked Dean about those posts he was making, and Dean admitted it was a play and how he felt like SHIT doing it but he was trying to win. TD was aware of what Dean was doing and even laughed about it. There was no indication, to me at least, that the specific posts you are addressing, affected TD. I know they affected you, and I am truly sorry for that. But from a TD perspective, he didn't say anything to us, that I recall, where this bothered HIM specifically.

That's why I felt there was more to TD being hurt than we could see at the time.
 
I feel bad for unintentionally exploiting real emotions and people being vulnerable when I was using my own insecurities to manufacture posts that would garner sympathy. It was a fucked up thing to do. I don't want to do it again. I just wanted to prove it could be done and that a wolf team could win per what Zell said. I'm kind of ashamed that I was capable of it, which I guess says a lot about the person I am.
 

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We should've pivoted to another known wolf while killing Jon the second time. That is where I see it.
We would've had to have kill TD specifically.

I floated the idea and was ignored
Hey, people always say "go for the known wolf" right? You two knew you were legit but there was still some doubt for me because of TD's role claim that made a lot of sense.

I posted in that same day that TD being a wolf meant he was coupled with the detective. What I typed then deleted without posting is I had felt the whole game that Raine really had the last strong townie role, and coupling Raine and TD made a lot of sense, and I could totally see them pulling off that sort of scheme.

But I looked at the number of people left and calculated that even with a townie voting with the wolves, we were fine, so better to take out the sure thing and deal with the TD possibility the next day. Except I completely forgot to account for Cupid in those numbers. Whoops.
 

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Sacrificing Jawneh the first day was a gutsy but effective move. And TD even suggested they did that when nobody else was talking about the possibility. And he got on me for saying the wolves were probably the ones who didn't vote for him!
Sacrifice is my middle name in these games.

The actual turning point was Jump, I think.
The real turning point was when people didn't vote Benzine.

I'm not going to write a big post myself about what happened. I am sad that people got hurt due to the game and hope them the best to recover and be back asap so that all our lovely cuties can mingle together again. Game wise, I'm impressed at quite a few people's game this time around, except for Tubby hiding his trap up his own butt. Lows and highs for everyone. I do hope we all can still come back and play the game again together after everything has cooled off.
 

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Ok Crikey react this post if you want me to start Aussie Dingo within the next day (eg probably send roles etc in the next few hours) or Wut react if you want me to hold off an extra 24 hours from now
With respect I'm going to think on this one for a bit before I do. I don't know if I feel ripping a band-aid off and trying to distract is worth the risk of being bad and trying to deceive people who could be emotionally drained when I myself am.
 
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