Sensitive First Presidential Debate of 2024

[Fool's Requiem]

The most important thing about a potential replacement is that they're coherent. That will be enough for some people.

And honestly the bar shouldn't need to be that low.

Remain upright, my brothers!

 

[Quagmire]

I'm very concerned especially for LGBTQ+ individuals (even more so that my girlfriend currently lives there!). Given that the conservative base looks down upon them as sub-human trash, wants to criminalize them, and is trying to make anything LGBTQ+ related out to be some dangerous, cancerous ideology, I fear they're going to crack down heavily on them like what has happened to other minority groups at the hands of authoritarian regimes.

All this makes me want to sharpen (and learn) my German and move to Germany

 

[Mark]

Well, I’ve mentioned this a few times here myself. I’ve seen a couple of y’all mention it as well. This kinda phrasing really made me think about it a little more…



I’m not sure if it’s my own background with having a dysfunctional family making it click or the bluntness of it, but it’s a good point if you’re not looking at Biden through rose colored glasses like he’s some innocent old man deteriorating, like I’ve felt in the past.

 

[Smacktard]

I really don't know much about Biden's personal life, but how much of that is true? Because if that's all true then that is fucking wild

 

[Ben]

I really don't know much about Biden's personal life, but how much of that is true? Because if that's all true then that is fucking wild

At the very least, the part about Hunter Biden getting with his brothers widow and getting her hooked on crack all came out during his recent illegal gun ownership trial.

 

[Smacktard]

At the very least, the part about Hunter Biden getting with his brothers widow and getting her hooked on crack all came out during his recent illegal gun ownership trial.

jesus fuckin christ

 

[Mark]

I really don't know much about Biden's personal life, but how much of that is true? Because if that's all true then that is fucking wild

As far as his motives for abandoning his kids to work in Washington, I won’t speculate, but it’s sorta a moot point. Everything else? You know just as well as I do that they won’t phrase it so bluntly, but there’s nothing proving any of those points to be false and countless examples of proof, as Ben pointed out.

It makes sense, though, if you view them as a dysfunctional family and not the first family. Old man’s got a crackhead for a son, but he still loves his ice cream and Corvette. He indulges himself, his kid grows up fucked up, the other one dies, and he’s carrying on like everything is copacetic on the home front… because in his mind, it is. Out of sight, out of mind.

 

[Jon]

I really don't know much about Biden's personal life, but how much of that is true? Because if that's all true then that is fucking wild

I don't know how accurate some of that is. Part of it sounds like propaganda. His first wife and daughter were both killed in an accident. And he was already running for senate at the time. I don't know about the "abandonment." He married Jill and has a daughter with her. I do not beleve she or Beau (who died after a fight witha brain tumor) were addicts. Hunter 100% is.

 

[Jon]

As far as his motives for abandoning his kids to work in Washington, I won’t speculate, but it’s sorta a moot point. Everything else? You know just as well as I do that they won’t phrase it so bluntly, but there’s nothing proving any of those points to be false and countless examples of proof, as Ben pointed out.

It makes sense, though, if you view them as a dysfunctional family and not the first family. Old man’s got a crackhead for a son, but he still loves his ice cream and Corvette. He indulges himself, his kid grows up fucked up, the other one dies, and he’s carrying on like everything is copacetic on the home front… because in his mind, it is. Out of sight, out of mind.

To be fair, the loss the man has dealt with is pretty extreme.

 

[Smacktard]

As far as his motives for abandoning his kids to work in Washington, I won’t speculate, but it’s sorta a moot point. Everything else? You know just as well as I do that they won’t phrase it so bluntly, but there’s nothing proving any of those points to be false and countless examples of proof, as Ben pointed out.

It makes sense, though, if you view them as a dysfunctional family and not the first family. Old man’s got a crackhead for a son, but he still loves his ice cream and Corvette. He indulges himself, his kid grows up fucked up, the other one dies, and he’s carrying on like everything is copacetic on the home front… because in his mind, it is. Out of sight, out of mind.

I think the "abandoned his kids" thing is a bit dramatic, but I was mostly referring to the part of Hunter fucking his dead brother's ex-wife and getting her addicted to crack.

Also, he has *two* drug-addicted kids? I thought it was only Hunter. I wasn't going to fault Biden for having a drug addict as a son, but this is beyond compare.

Also, Hunter recently "became an artist" and has been selling paintings for 6 figures. Obama's ethics czar even said it was a gross example of unethical behavior. Of course, when I brought this up, Redditors played defense hard.

 

[Jon]

I think the "abandoned his kids" thing is a bit dramatic, but I was mostly referring to the part of Hunter fucking his dead brother's ex-wife and getting her addicted to crack.

This is accurate. After his brother died, Hunter divorced his wife and started dating Beau's widow.

 

[Mark]

To be fair, the loss the man has dealt with is pretty extreme.

It is, which is why I won’t speculate on his motives, but… name one person who hasn’t suffered loss or who won’t suffer loss. How you handle loss? That’s what shows your character there.

I think the "abandoned his kids" thing is a bit dramatic, but I was mostly referring to the part of Hunter fucking his dead brother's ex-wife and getting her addicted to crack.

Absolutely, which is why I wouldn’t touch on that point. I wouldn’t want someone on the outside speculating about my family life and why I’ve made decisions I’ve made. If he did, then he did, but that’s besides the point when looking at the present-day stuff. It’s only relevant in the sense of insight, because even a kid with a perfect upbringing can become an addict or a garbage human being.

Also, he has *two* drug-addicted kids? I thought it was only Hunter. I wasn't going to fault Biden for having a drug addict as a son, but this is beyond compare.

I think that may have been a misrepresentation, too, because I don’t know about his youngest daughter… but his daughter-in-law was, maybe that’s what is being counted? It shouldn’t for the sake of genetics, but when you start having addiction grow within a family circle… that’s a sign of a much larger issue than just substance abuse itself.

Also, Hunter recently "became an artist" and has been selling paintings for 6 figures. Obama's ethics czar even said it was a gross example of unethical behavior. Of course, when I brought this up, Redditors played defense hard.

Yeah, even if I like Joe Biden, there’s nothing respectable about Hunter. Period. He’s a scumbag crackhead, and he’s been that way long enough to become a successful con-artist. That’s not someone looking to get better, that’s someone covering their tracks still.

This is accurate. After his brother died, Hunter divorced his wife and started dating Beau's widow.

Which is trashy as fuck. I’ve heard the sob story about “people in mourning finding comfort in one another” before. My grandfather married his dead brother’s wife after my grandmother died, and guess what? Before my grandma and great grandma died, they both suspected her as trying to move in on my grandfather because he was the more successful of the two brothers. People like that… they’re waiting to move in. That’s some scumbag shit.

 

[Rachel]

The "abandon kids" thing is not true. As a senator, Biden rode the Amtrak train almost daily between DC and Delaware. His nickname was Amtrak Joe.

PS - don't know how much Biden can help that Hunter dated his son's widow. That's not great but they are also both adults.

I don't really give a shit about Hunter. He's not running and yeah he's on his father's coattails. Possibly he is discussing with his father on what to do with the campaign as one of his family members. Biden let the charges against his son play out.

Also, I hate that I am going to bat for Biden in this thread. Sure wish it didn't play out like this. lol.

 

[Mark]

The "abandon kids" thing is not true. As a senator, Biden rode the Amtrak train almost daily between DC and Delaware. His nickname was Amtrak Joe.

PS - don't know how much Biden can help that Hunter dated his son's widow. That's not great but they are also both adults.

I don't really give a shit about Hunter. He's not running and yeah he's on his father's coattails. Possibly he is discussing with his father on what to do with the campaign as one of his family members. Biden let the charges against his son play out.

Also, I hate that I am going to bat for Biden in this thread. Sure wish it didn't play out like this. lol.

For what it’s worth, I don’t think anything is wrong with you going to bat for him. If I say anything that’s incorrect, I wanna know for the sake of correcting myself. I know I’m not a fan of the guy, or the other guy, or any of those guys and gals in that city, so it’s easy for me to come off as critical of them… because I am… because they’re all con-artists, but I at least wanna be correct in my shit-talking.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Fuck Hunter. Joe has had a lot of bullshit happen to him that may not even be his fault. There's only so much you can do to help your kids. Beau died due to complications of cancer. Joe lost his first daughter and his first wife to a car accident. Could have lost his two sons as well. Hunter belongs in jail. Supposedly Ashley is doing well. I assume Jill is normal.

 

[Rachel]

This latest turn in the conversation is reminding me a little of Tom Hanks, one of my favorite actors. I don't know all the details but Chet doesn't seem to have turned out great. Maybe it's extra hard to steer your child right when you are a celebrity. Probably insanely easy to get access to drugs.

I also sometimes browse the Parenting subreddit. There are a lot of heartbreaking stories of parents trying to do the right thing at each turn, but their child ends up addicted. Hell, the worst are easily the kids that take one pill and end up dead from fent. But the point is, there sure ain't no manual on being a parent. Especially if a parent dies. One of my sons is neurodivergent and I second guess myself with him a LOT.

All that to say, I believe Joe is a decent father. I believe he genuinely cares for his children. He hugs them frequently and shows affection.

What really sucks is, I believe Beau could have gone on to do really good things. I believe, had he wanted, he could have had a start of a political career. Delaware Governor, Senator, I don't know. Joe theorized his brain cancer could have come from the burn pits when Beau served. Just awful, awful.

Oh yeah, and I'm noticing this little thing isn't being mentioned. It kind of bothers me, like he just gets a pass because at this point, he's crazy, what else is there to talk about. Right?

It's one of many with that family of course, but I read about this recently and...what can you say.

Donald Trump Revealed Why He ‘Doesn’t Like to Have His Picture Taken’ Next to His Youngest Son Barron

As many know, former US President Donald Trump and former First Lady Melania Trump’s son Barron Trump is super tall. We’ve seen it in photos, discussions, and more: the youngest Trump kid is 6’9. We’ve heard for years now that Donald is allegedly jealous of his son’s towering height, especially...

www.yahoo.com

lol it's so dumb

 

[Ants!]

Biden's family is irrelevant. Whether we like Biden as a person is irrelevant. Things like the Supreme court are relevant. Things like what to do post-Roe are relevant. Things like Project 2025 are relevant.

Besides, it's not like Trump is without his skeletons too. Be smart people, who don't mistake an election for a trashy Reality TV show.

 

[Mark]

This latest turn in the conversation is reminding me a little of Tom Hanks, one of my favorite actors. I don't know all the details but Chet doesn't seem to have turned out great. Maybe it's extra hard to steer your child right when you are a celebrity. Probably insanely easy to get access to drugs.

It’s insanely easy to get access to drugs. Period. Celebrity status just helps insulate you to a degree, because you can have someone else to the dirty work for you.

I also sometimes browse the Parenting subreddit. There are a lot of heartbreaking stories of parents trying to do the right thing at each turn, but their child ends up addicted. Hell, the worst are easily the kids that take one pill and end up dead from fent. But the point is, there sure ain't no manual on being a parent. Especially if a parent dies. One of my sons is neurodivergent and I second guess myself with him a LOT.

My younger brother is an addict, my uncle is one, my other uncle was one until he died. I’ve lost more family members and friends than you could bother reading or I could bother writing. I’m completely understanding of the empathetic reaction to family dealing with addiction, I had to remove myself from my family who’s enabling my brother’s addiction to the very same shit Hunter was playing around with. He’s also an opiate user, fentanyl mixed with whatever flavor benzodiazepines they feel like cutting it with this week. He’s also an alcoholic, who began liver failure not even 3 years after his 21st birthday. With that said… good intentions don’t always have good outcomes. Hunter could very well have set on his own path of destruction, but there are *almost* always familial elements at play that contribute to how someone ends up at the crossroads of drugs or sobriety. You don’t just wake up one day and decide to smoke crack or shoot dope, it’s a quick descent after you cross that threshold… but getting there takes a lifetime until that point, and every little thing plays a role. I’m not going to go as far as to say Joe made his son a crackhead or chased his other son off to the military, but, there are reasons that young men would rather enlist to load burn pits at 18 than be at home. For more than we’d like to realize, the military is an easy pass to get away from home… whatever that might be. There are also reasons that young people turn to drugs that don’t necessarily stem from just the ol’ college try. I know that you already know this kinda stuff, but this is just where my train of thought is coming from, I’m not just picking on the guy to be a dick.

All that to say, I believe Joe is a decent father. I believe he genuinely cares for his children. He hugs them frequently and shows affection.

That could be well and true now, but that might not have always been the case, and we can’t forget about the theatrics of politics, either. They have to put up a wholesome image, and then when something like an addiction comes out, they have to do damage control.

What really sucks is, I believe Beau could have gone on to do really good things. I believe, had he wanted, he could have had a start of a political career. Delaware Governor, Senator, I don't know. Joe theorized his brain cancer could have come from the burn pits when Beau served. Just awful, awful.

I would sooner think that the doctors and specialists they have access to at Walter Reed would have theorized it, but, that’s irrelevant. Our soldiers have been exposed to horrible shit across the board, even some of the ones that have never seen combat have seen the worst of their fellow enlisted… as evident by the rampant sexual assaults, “hazing”, etc.

Biden's family is irrelevant. Whether we like Biden as a person is irrelevant. Things like the Supreme court are relevant. Things like what to do post-Roe are relevant. Things like Project 2025 are relevant.

You’re not wrong, but it’s like that saying “the company you keep”, but with family. It raises questions as the patriarch of his family, which in turn raises questions of his character, which clearly matters in an election when a good bit of “our” collective beef with Trump is his overall character.

Besides, it's not like Trump is without his skeletons too. Be smart people, who don't mistake an election for a trashy Reality TV show.

It’s not that for me, but a matter of… if people in Biden’s camp are gonna zero in on and focus on Trump’s personal life as they have, when he clearly has no qualms about telling everyone his business totally unprompted or unsolicited (sidebar: eww… unsolicited Trump’s business), what are they hiding? We all have things we’re not proud of, but not all of us try to put the attention on someone else, especially someone who wants the attention as badly as Trump, unless you really wanna keep the eyes off of your camp. It’s counterproductive to what you want to do… you want an idiot like Trump to be ignored and just wander off to bother someone else. Who knows, man, maybe I’m just too pessimistic about all those political types.

 

[Ants!]

So what? Who said anything about trying to win the election about who is the less shitty family man?

Biden doesn't have a January 6th. Biden didn't pack the Supreme court with cronies giving him immunity. Quit giving breath to things that aren't important for either candidate.

 

[Rachel]

Ants, I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. Likeability has ALWAYS been relevant. In fact, sadly things that are not relevant as a measurement for how well you govern, is the deciding factor in how people vote all the time.

And I don't see why we can't talk about that side of it too. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Likeability is going to be one of the deciding factors.

 

[Ants!]

Ants, I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. Likeability has ALWAYS been relevant. In fact, sadly things that are not relevant as a measurement for how well you govern, is the deciding factor in how people vote all the time.

And I don't see why we can't talk about that side of it too. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Likeability is going to be one of the deciding factors.

I'm not talking about relevance in terms of what wins elections. I'm talking about what SHOULD be relevant when picking a president who's going to be making decisions on issues and policies.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

and guess who is less likable

Hint: It's not Biden.

 

[Quagmire]

and guess who is less likable

Hint: It's not Biden.

Except to those people who are awful people and love how mask off Trump is

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Except to those people who are awful people and love how mask off Trump is

a leader needs to be respectful and reserved. Seeing how the President publicly trashes people on Twitter is a bad optic and sets a terrible precedence.

 

[Ancle Suck]

a leader needs to be respectful and reserved. Seeing how the President publicly trashes people on Twitter is a bad optic and sets a terrible precedence.

That's what most people see. A good chunk of people (somewhere between 25-35% of the US) like it when the former President is publicly trashing people on Twitter.

 

[Ben]

a terrible precedence.

A terrible president.

 

[Ants!]

and guess who is less likable

Hint: It's not Biden.

That depends on who you ask.

a leader needs to be respectful and reserved. Seeing how the President publicly trashes people on Twitter is a bad optic and sets a terrible precedence.

Some people actually love that about him. Basically the only thing the right-wing voters have cared about since his rise eight years ago is to "own the Libs". It's a stupid reason to vote for somebody, but that's our reality.

Like I said, there's two different conversations: what SHOULD win elections, and what DOES win elections.

 

[Jon]

That's what most people see. A good chunk of people (somewhere between 25-35% of the US) like it when the former President is publicly trashing people on Twitter.

Normally I'd say send them all to Florida and wall it off.

But I live here. So send them to Texas. Nothing good has ever come from there anyway.

Closest thing is Matthew McConaughy.

 

[MC74]

Normally I'd say send them all to Florida and wall it off.

But I live here. So send them to Texas. Nothing good has ever come from there anyway.

Closest thing is Matthew McConaughy.

Shoot them all into the sun. The only place fit for people who want the world to burn.

 

[Mark]

So what? Who said anything about trying to win the election about who is the less shitty family man?

Biden doesn't have a January 6th. Biden didn't pack the Supreme court with cronies giving him immunity. Quit giving breath to things that aren't important for either candidate.

Character is still character, man. Biden’s campaign focuses just as much on Trump being a POS as it does policy, and I always find it concerning when politicians focus on slinging mud as a strategy. Both sides do it, it isn’t something new, and we’ve seen time and time again how politicians love to criticize others for what’s going on in their yard because it’s easier than cleaning up their own.

Ants, I honestly have no clue what you are talking about. Likeability has ALWAYS been relevant. In fact, sadly things that are not relevant as a measurement for how well you govern, is the deciding factor in how people vote all the time.

And I don't see why we can't talk about that side of it too. I can walk and chew gum at the same time. Likeability is going to be one of the deciding factors.

Precisely. Beyond whether or not you can “like” a politician, they also have to command some degree of respect being the face of a nation. Neither candidate does that, but for different reasons. As a nation, we are a laughing stock, because our election is down to a felon and someone that should probably receive help eating and changing his drawers. With the sheer volume of great minds in this country, it’s a damn shame that this is what it boils down to… and it sends a clear message to other countries that we are in the midst of a shit show.

and guess who is less likable

Hint: It's not Biden.

And this is where I contradict my previous mention of a president being liked… although it is important, the question we should be asking is whether or not people like him for his actions as president, because of the game he talks and how he aligns himself with people, or because Trump is a POS. Most people can blow smoke up someone’s ass enough to become “liked”, all it takes is the gift of gab and just enough charisma to sell it, and we shouldn’t even be entertaining a “lesser of two evils” mentality when it comes to someone we’re supposed to have total choice over, but here we are.

a leader needs to be respectful and reserved. Seeing how the President publicly trashes people on Twitter is a bad optic and sets a terrible precedence.

Exactly. If for whatever reason Trump wins, I hope they keep him off of the fucking internet.

That's what most people see. A good chunk of people (somewhere between 25-35% of the US) like it when the former President is publicly trashing people on Twitter.

I’m sure some people like it, but everyone I’ve talked to that has supported Trump in the past appreciated his bluntness, but also likened him to an angsty teenager online and said he’d do much better if he’d just shut the fuck up.

Some people actually love that about him. Basically the only thing the right-wing voters have cared about since his rise eight years ago is to "own the Libs". It's a stupid reason to vote for somebody, but that's our reality.

Yeah, those people shouldn’t even have their opinions humored, honestly. They’re just trying to rile up a base and thrive off of drama that doesn’t concern them. They don’t care about this person or that person’s rights, because theirs are intact.

Like I said, there's two different conversations: what SHOULD win elections, and what DOES win elections.

Exactly, and for far too long… it has been all about who can seduce the most people, not who has the best game plan or the highest likelihood of success. And yes, a form of seduction is “I’m gonna be your incumbent president, and I’m better than your ex-president”. Just because my ex-girlfriend was a disloyal and indignant fool doesn’t mean I should just hop right into things with the next girl that hears my sob story and says “aww, don’t worry, I’ll treat you better than that”, because she could turn around and be twice the problem as the last one for any number of reasons. That’s where we’re at in America… an abusive relationship with the people “in charge” where we just hop back and forth between the oven and the frying pan while we argue with our friends, family, co-workers, and anyone else about how they’re wrong for complaining about the heat when the real question we should be asking ourselves is why do we continue to put these clowns in power?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Most people can blow smoke up someone’s ass enough to become “liked”, all it takes is the gift of gab and just enough charisma to sell it, and we shouldn’t even be entertaining a “lesser of two evils” mentality when it comes to someone we’re supposed to have total choice over, but here we are.

The issue is that we're constantly stuck with voting the best of two evils. Third party options are either just as bad or they're a wasted vote. As someone who refuses to affiliate myself with any party and would prefer if there were no parties in the first place, I heavily dislike that I cannot vote in both primaries. I hate that I have no options. I hate that I am required to vote Republican or Democrat or my vote is considered "wasted" and jf I choose not to vote for anyone, then my opinion is irrelevant.

Exactly. If for whatever reason Trump wins, I hope they keep him off of the fucking internet.

They didn't do that in his first term, unlikely it'll happen on a second term. I guarantee the morons who voted for him because he likes to talk out his ass regardless of whether it's right or wrong will realize that he's stopped posting bullshit and will start to claim that he's being censored.

 

[Quagmire]

jf I choose not to vote for anyone, then my opinion is irrelevant.

Not voting or voting 3rd party is basically a vote for Trump

 

[Mark]

The issue is that we're constantly stuck with voting the best of two evils. Third party options are either just as bad or they're a wasted vote. As someone who refuses to affiliate myself with any party and would prefer if there were no parties in the first place, I heavily dislike that I cannot vote in both primaries. I hate that I have no options. I hate that I am required to vote Republican or Democrat or my vote is considered "wasted" and jf I choose not to vote for anyone, then my opinion is irrelevant.

I completely agree, and find myself in the same boat. The “fuck ‘em all” option needs to be a thing.

They didn't do that in his first term, unlikely it'll happen on a second term. I guarantee the morons who voted for him because he likes to talk out his ass regardless of whether it's right or wrong will realize that he's stopped posting bullshit and will start to claim that he's being censored.

One of the criticisms I kept hearing after his term was about his internet presence, part of me wants to think that he’s gonna have to switch things up to win over more people. The likelihood of that happening? Slim, but, if I were him… I’d certainly be taking notes about what didn’t work last time.

 

[Mark]

Not voting or voting 3rd party is basically a vote for Trump

And that’s voter manipulation, even if it’s technically true. We should be able to say that neither candidate represents our beliefs or values or whatever. The fact that we can’t, without someone immediately condemning us for it or saying we’re choosing the wrong option proves what Fools said… there are no options if you don’t perfectly align with one party or the other. It’s assimilate or nothing.

 

[Quagmire]

And that’s voter manipulation, even if it’s technically true. We should be able to say that neither candidate represents our beliefs or values or whatever. The fact that we can’t, without someone immediately condemning us for it or saying we’re choosing the wrong option proves what Fools said… there are no options if you don’t perfectly align with one party or the other. It’s assimilate or nothing.

I 100% agree, we badly need ranked voting and other reforms to our system

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Not voting or voting 3rd party is basically a vote for Trump

you have no idea how much I despise this level of thinking. A vote should never be considered wasted or a "vote for the wrong party". And when you give someone the option of "vote for my party or you're a schmuck" doesn't exactly make one want to vote for any of these fucking clowns.

 

[Quagmire]

you have no idea how much I despise this level of thinking. A vote should never be considered wasted or a "vote for the wrong party". And when you give someone the option of "vote for my party or you're a schmuck" doesn't exactly make one want to vote for any of these fucking clowns.

I normally am not this way, but a Trump victory would be nothing but disastrous for not just this country, but the world and earth (damage that could be done to nature)

If this were Biden v McCain or Romney I would not be speaking this way. I hope I see the day where candidates like Biden are seen as the conservative option in this country

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I think I've mentioned thus earlier, but this is the first time I've ever put in my request to vote (abstenee), solely to put in my vote against Turnip.

 

[Jon]

And that’s voter manipulation, even if it’s technically true. We should be able to say that neither candidate represents our beliefs or values or whatever. The fact that we can’t, without someone immediately condemning us for it or saying we’re choosing the wrong option proves what Fools said… there are no options if you don’t perfectly align with one party or the other. It’s assimilate or nothing.

I 100% agree, we badly need ranked voting and other reforms to our system

It's true for reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread. Reps are more likely to come out in droves to vote their candidate. Dems and independents don't. Especially when there isn't a good candidate. Because the way the electoral college works, this means all the typically red and blue states get theirs, but in swing states, not voting EXPLICITLY for the Democrat leaves another vote shy from the larger typical turnout of Reps.

It's why Trump loves RFK being in the race still. If he gets closer to 7% of the votes, that gives the Reps an overall edge.

And again, if we went by popular vote, you know, the ACTUAL will of the American people, there would have been 2 Rep presidents in the last 30 years. They need 3rd parties and this mentality to win.

This is the first time I'm strongly advocating to not vote 3rd party. Get out there and vote and vote specifically Dem. The other option is a vote to end democracy as we know it.

 

[Quagmire]

It's why Trump loves RFK being in the race still. If he gets closer to 7% of the votes, that gives the Reps an overall edge.

Isnt RFK more likely to hurt Trump, him (RFK) being right winged vs say a Green party and more left leaning candidates? Feel like RFK is more likely to take votes from Conservatives who dont like Trump, than undecided and people on the left

 

[Ancle Suck]

Isnt RFK more likely to hurt Trump, him (RFK) being right winged vs say a Green party and more left leaning candidates? Feel like RFK is more likely to take votes from Conservatives who dont like Trump, than undecided and people on the left

You'd think that, but it's not what polls have been showing. Possible to have a couple reasons for that:

1) it allows people who are never Trump that would have otherwise reluctantly voted Biden to have a different option.
2) lots of people don't care about policy and just see "RFK" and that's enough to remember the "glory days" of Kennedy family running the D party

 

[Jon]

Isnt RFK more likely to hurt Trump, him (RFK) being right winged vs say a Green party and more left leaning candidates? Feel like RFK is more likely to take votes from Conservatives who dont like Trump, than undecided and people on the left

Basically what Alu said. I cannot think of a single time, in addition, that any meaningful 3rd party candidate hurt the right.

Reps are typically loyal to their party more than Dems. What I mean it it is more likely for a Dem to vote away from their candidate than Reps. This is the one time in history where Reps have a larger chance to vote away from their candidate. With RFK, it's as Alu said. They are still unlikely to vote Biden.

 

[Jon]

Oh, also, apparently Biden wrote an angry letter to Dem leadership today too. Essentially telling them to stfu and get back in line.

It's easy to sound like a strong, confident leader in a letter penned by a professional. I STILL haven't seen that level of confidence or fiery verve in person. He's projecting something he can't back up.

 

[MC74]

Not voting or voting 3rd party is basically a vote for Trump

A problem all too common with a 2-party state. This is exactly how it is in Canada too, sadly. There aren't anyone who can pose enough a threat to the Liberals & Conservatives, so the result is always down to one of the big two winning.

 

[Mark]

It's true for reasons I mentioned earlier in this thread. Reps are more likely to come out in droves to vote their candidate. Dems and independents don't. Especially when there isn't a good candidate. Because the way the electoral college works, this means all the typically red and blue states get theirs, but in swing states, not voting EXPLICITLY for the Democrat leaves another vote shy from the larger typical turnout of Reps.

Which shouldn’t even be an issue if the Dems had their base locked down the way that they say they do, because some of the most populous states are blue… even if they don’t show in droves, they should, theoretically, have enough to clinch. Swing states need to realize that they can’t have their cake and eat it, too, as far as I see it. I never really understood how one state can be split so, but, now I find myself in a microcosm of Trump supporters out here in the mountains in the same state that I lived in a blue city in, a blue city that by all estimates, most of the people I know were split pretty evenly between the two despite how the last election went here. So, what do I really know? People are weird, and some people live in bubbles in blue cities and some people live in bubbles in small red towns. What used to make America “special”… our “differences”, is nothing more than cannon fodder for Washington.

Oh, also, apparently Biden wrote an angry letter to Dem leadership today too. Essentially telling them to stfu and get back in line.

It's easy to sound like a strong, confident leader in a letter penned by a professional. I STILL haven't seen that level of confidence or fiery verve in person. He's projecting something he can't back up.

According to CBS, it’s in light of more Dems calling for him to step down. Never thought I’d see the day that they report on this kinda stuff.

 

[Jon]

I never really understood how one state can be split so, but, now I find myself in a microcosm of Trump supporters out here in the mountains in the same state that I lived in a blue city in, a blue city that by all estimates, most of the people I know were split pretty evenly between the two despite how the last election went here.

This, but also keep in mind gerrymandering is very real, and the Reps more than the Dems are guilty of it. It's why you see the larger more populous cities in a state go blue, but the rest is red, and then the electoral college goes red in the state. Take Nevada for example. When it goes red, the areas around Reno and Vegas are typically the only blue areas. Without gerrymandering, Nevada would never go red.

According to CBS, it’s in light of more Dems calling for him to step down. Never thought I’d see the day that they report on this kinda stuff.

He's not realizing though he's alienating more than those dems. Especially someone like Jerry Nadler, who is in an important district in NY. Most of thesepeople are on hot seats in their constituency and they are listening to their people say this about Biden. Even if Biden wins (let's hope), there is a VERY real possibility it comes with losing both the House and the Senate. And that could be just as dangerous as Trump winning the White House because the SCOTUS is in pocket too.

 

[Smacktard]

Most recent polling I saw was that RFK actually gives Biden a slight lead. General polling though so doesn't account for swing states and such.

Who will RFK Jr. hurt more in 2024: Trump or Biden?

Both Democrats and Republicans are worried that Kennedy could “spoil” the election by siphoning more votes from one side than the other.

www.yahoo.com

 

[Ancle Suck]

Most recent polling I saw was that RFK actually gives Biden a slight lead. General polling though so doesn't account for swing states and such.

Who will RFK Jr. hurt more in 2024: Trump or Biden?

Both Democrats and Republicans are worried that Kennedy could “spoil” the election by siphoning more votes from one side than the other.

www.yahoo.com

That must be a more recent switch as people are actually starting to pay attention to his policy. But we'll see if that stays that way or if this was a blip in the radar.

 

[Quagmire]

That must be a more recent switch as people are actually starting to pay attention to his policy. But we'll see if that stays that way or if this was a blip in the radar.

Also have to remember that his cousin (?) JFKjr was supposed to come back and lead the MAGAs, so maybe some will go for him

 

[dimmerwit]

My understanding is that polling in the last few months has gone from RFK helping Trump to a more mixed picture.