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Sensitive First Presidential Debate of 2024
- Thread starter Jon
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She's failed at national campaigns before to the point of dropping out before a single primary vote was cast. She's also unpopular among the left for her time as a DA (not a great track record).
But she's still a capable human.
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“America: We have capable humans.”
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It's an improvement over the two main candidates
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Is that Vanilla Ice?
Yep, and with your suggestion, we might have a real, true competition for a leader.
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I mean it was getting close to his bedtime, so it was going to be a difficult conversation anyway.
Oh wait...
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For comparison, here is Joe's speech at the 2016 DNC:
2016 Interview with Stephen Colbert:
2020 Inauguration:
I also looked at 2012 and 2008, but there's diminishing returns in his speech pattern and confidence. He messes up words from time to time, but I think that's just how he speaks.
2016 Interview with Stephen Colbert:
2020 Inauguration:
I also looked at 2012 and 2008, but there's diminishing returns in his speech pattern and confidence. He messes up words from time to time, but I think that's just how he speaks.
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Definitely not the dude we saw tonight.
I definitely don't fault him for getting old and declining with the stress of the presidency, but he absolutely has.
Thinking about it, Obama was fresh-faced when he got elected, then 8 years later he's greying and looks like he's seen some shit. That's gotta take a toll on you even just mentally... And Joe unfortunately doesn't have the youth to spare.
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His stutter disability is real. But there is a palpable difference between that (of which I am completely forgiving of) and what we see now.
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Legit thought you were talking about Gamewinners until "The White House" made me realize.
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This circles back to my first post in this thread, because he's stubbornly refusing to drop out. So as much as I would love for him to be replaced by, well, almost ANYONE, as long as he keeps boisterously staying in the race, we might as well plan for November (and possibly what happens after, if he loses).
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Unless something drastic happens, he's more likely to lose than not.
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I don't know how cemented in he truly is as the nominee if he himself doesn't choose to step down, in like an official rules capacity. There has to be some mechanism by which the DNC can put someone else up regardless of time/money lost.
Saw something stating Biden might be the last to realize just how badly he's fumbled this, which makes sense. If we're talking about a mental decline and whether he's still there enough to govern, it begs the question of whether he'll even realize/admit it. He certainly leaned on the "back in my day" referencing previous actions in government, he personally might not fully realize just how old he is, especially if surrounded by a bunch of staffers who just say "Good job, Mr. President" and give Grandpa his ice cream cone.
Apparently Obama is now expressing concern that Joe can't win again, and I feel if anyone is going to get through and convince him of that fact, it's Obama. Pelosi seems to have dropped off the fence onto the "he can't do this" side, too.
Shit, I don't know how anyone who watched his last few debates could feel comfortable standing their ground and saying he's wholly fit to lead. There's something severely wrong when Trump looks competent next to the Dem candidate.
Even if all the money that's been donated so far is explicitly pledged to him and not just the DNC or "presidential candidate" or whatever... There's more money. I'm sure George Clooney can do a charge-back with his credit card company to get the millions of dollars he gave to Joe on grounds that the product he ordered was not delivered.
If he does stay in, he's going to lose, and I kind of keep circling back to the "at what point of them trying to enact Project 2025 does the tentative peace snap, and we've got another civil war brewing." Everyone kinda gave the "lol it'll never happen" response when I floated it a few months ago, but... Kinda doesn't seem as wild an eventuality, now.
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Strictly speaking, his delegates are not pledged. They can ultimately vote for whomever they please, a point Biden himself made at yesterday's conference.
The big difficulty is that due to a quirk of the rules the candidates for the state of Ohio must be finalised by 7 August, which is before the Democratic convention on 19-22 August. Either the Dems come to some agreement before then or any alternative they select at the convention would not be on the ballot in that state, although given their recent record in Ohio that might not be such a blow.
The other issue is as you said the money. The money pledged directly to his campaign ("Biden for President") would be gone, although there's an untested legal theory that since Kamala Harris is listed as the Vice Presidential nominee she could potentially use that money for a presidential campaign. The money donated to the DNC and super PACs would be usuable though.
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After witnessing the legal fuckery Trump has engaged in over the past few years and skated free from, I'm sure there are some dumb legal loopholes or semantic justifications that Dems could use to ensure their hypothetical new candidate stays on the ballot and they're able to continue using the financing pledged to Biden.
Like maybe, as a silly example, a Whitmer campaign for Pres could remain legally entitled "Biden for President", and would just colloquially be referred to as the "Whitmer for President" campaign.
Like maybe, as a silly example, a Whitmer campaign for Pres could remain legally entitled "Biden for President", and would just colloquially be referred to as the "Whitmer for President" campaign.
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That wouldn't be possible given that Biden (and Harris) are explicitly listed on the campaign documents creating "Biden for President".
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The president can now legally do whatever they want so long as they deem it an official act.
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Write an addendum! The law in the US only means what people in power BELIEVE it to mean
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Regarding the delegates...
Biden was asked directly a question about this in the presser. I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the exact quote, but it was along the lines of "Are the delegate still bound to you or are they free to vote on their own?"
Biden himself said that they are free to vote whom they want and are not beholden to him. That was one of his creepy whispers of "It won't happen."
Biden himself isn't holding them accountable. The only issue is that if he doesn't drop and they solve this PRIOR to the DNC, the candidate isn't on the ballot in Ohio as a key battleground state.
This still comes down to Biden, but he has I'd estimate 2 weeks to cement his choice. The Dems will rally around whomever is their nominee because of Trump and the danger he brings. The goal will be to appeal to never-Trumpers and independents with whomever would replace Biden.
But after that presser, the only thing he seemed passionate about was foreign policy... and never-Trumpers and independents do not give a shit about that. He spent no time assuaging the fears of the DOMESTIC issues. And when he's asked about domestic issues, the stuttering and mindless wandering of thoughts are in overdrive. He ONLY seems calm and able to answer foreign policy. And yes, I get he was at NATO, but the foreign countries are NOT the ones voting in our election. And Biden seemed lost in every question NOT related to foreign policy.
Biden was asked directly a question about this in the presser. I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the exact quote, but it was along the lines of "Are the delegate still bound to you or are they free to vote on their own?"
Biden himself said that they are free to vote whom they want and are not beholden to him. That was one of his creepy whispers of "It won't happen."
Biden himself isn't holding them accountable. The only issue is that if he doesn't drop and they solve this PRIOR to the DNC, the candidate isn't on the ballot in Ohio as a key battleground state.
This still comes down to Biden, but he has I'd estimate 2 weeks to cement his choice. The Dems will rally around whomever is their nominee because of Trump and the danger he brings. The goal will be to appeal to never-Trumpers and independents with whomever would replace Biden.
But after that presser, the only thing he seemed passionate about was foreign policy... and never-Trumpers and independents do not give a shit about that. He spent no time assuaging the fears of the DOMESTIC issues. And when he's asked about domestic issues, the stuttering and mindless wandering of thoughts are in overdrive. He ONLY seems calm and able to answer foreign policy. And yes, I get he was at NATO, but the foreign countries are NOT the ones voting in our election. And Biden seemed lost in every question NOT related to foreign policy.
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They’re doing that thing that they do that nobody likes. Politicking.
Honestly, in my own experiences with people reaching that level of cognitive decline, it’s totally reasonable for him to be coherent and intelligible regarding fresh data that he’s having constantly driven into his head, which would be the foreign policy talk with NATO. That “middle” part of his memory, though? Not so much. Long-term? Not so much. Short-term? Not unless someone is reminding him, which is what we saw.
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I mean you could have stopped here
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See, that's where I struggle, because I don't necessarily think that's true overall.
A small handful of people? Sure. But MILLIONS of people? I know plenty of Trump supporters that AREN'T hateful. So where does support for him come from? This blind loyalty?
I think AS A PEOPLE humans tend to come together in crisis. I grew up in MA. I saw how people came together after the Marathon Bombings. I saw the unity after 9/11. I saw how people came together after Hurricane Katrina...
I'm not saying you're wrong. I'm saying I don't understand how SO many people blindly support a narcissistic, sociopathic, pathological liar who has LITERALLY said he wants to destroy democracy. And watching the SCOTUS now saying he can do it with impunity....
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You're probably right, it's like they burry their heads in the sand to "own the libs" it's very cult like
I remember one video from 2020 a girl was describing the guy she was seeing and claiming he had done a lot of bad things like Trump had and she was just like well there's no proof and the mom and dad were like this is not a good guy and we don't want you dating someone with all those accusations, and she goes oh but it's okay for the president to have those accusations