Zell Wolf Discussion Thread Game 5

[Zell 17]

Plus Ants did say that he was going to try and stay alive

 

[Smacktard]

But it was. It's unbecoming to think your argument was without holes. We get blinders to our own play, yes, but you had many holes.

I'm open to hearing them. Obviously I have blinders on, that's why I'm appealing to people to point out my mistakes. I genuinely want to learn from them.

Trickster yes. The wolves cannot talk in chat during the day until the night after shadow is used, there was no changing the Day 2 plan.

I missed this feature of shadow wolf tbf. You're right, this wouldn't align with the timeline. I claimed aura seer AFTER the shadow went up, so Trickster wolf wouldn't have had a chance to coordinate with other wolves and change their target.

The only problem with it (and why I would have voted you if I was a villager) is I just can't see Tubby faking Aura seer as RK. ESPECIALLY with a day 1 aura check on an unclaimed player, I don't think Tubby has got it in him (but I would love to be proven wrong).

That's a good point. Some players just come across as wholesome while others appear more nefarious. I know which reputation I've built by now

As an RK faking aura seer though, indiscriminate aura checking others as "good" is kind of a win-win. On one hand, you could protect a wolf, a fair weather ally; on the other hand, you build cred among the villagers. Only problem is if you claim an unknown villager is "good" so it can be a gamble.

 

[Smacktard]

I'm just kidding bb, I won't even vote for you first round next game, I promise. <3

 

[Zell 17]

As an RK faking aura seer though, indiscriminate aura checking others as "good" is kind of a win-win. On one hand, you could protect a wolf, a fair weather ally; on the other hand, you build cred among the villagers. Only problem is if you claim an unknown villager is "good" so it can be a gamble.

Yeah call a gunner or witch "good" and see what happens.

Faking "Unknown" Aura can work well too if there is a random voting role. If you hit a role that has bullets, they will implicitly trust you because they'll think "Well, if they were a wolf and checked me they would have killed me". If you hit some kind of seer or doctor, you can just say that they are the headhunter/fool. If you hit a wolf they'll know you are fake, but what are they gonna do about it? Claim that they are actually evil? It's really only bad if you call the priest unknown.

 

[Ants!]

I claimed my actual role and got hit with “that’s a convenient cover for a wolf”.

Granted that’s the moment TD played his hand to me and I became suspicious ever since.

 

[Smacktard]

I claimed my actual role and got hit with “that’s a convenient cover for a wolf”.

Granted that’s the moment TD played his hand to me and I became suspicious ever since.

I like to think this is how it went:
"I'm a wolf"
"HMMM that sounds like something a WOLF would say!"

 

[VashTheStampede]

Best way to play continues to be by not talking at all.

 

[TD]

I claimed my actual role and got hit with “that’s a convenient cover for a wolf”.

Granted that’s the moment TD played his hand to me and I became suspicious ever since.

...to be fair, Christina said it first.

(I know this because I didn't even think of that until she said it)

 

[TD]

The fact that there's no acknowledgement that there's severe balancing issues is another big reason I'm done.

It's just defending it and not welcoming to feedback.

 

[Smacktard]

The fact that there's no acknowledgement that there's severe balancing issues is another big reason I'm done.

It's just defending it and not welcoming to feedback.

Yeah, the wolves played aces last game but they still lost because RK decided not to play along, and Cupid pairing fucked them over. It does seem a bit stacked.

 

[Zell 17]

The fact that there's no acknowledgement that there's severe balancing issues is another big reason I'm done.

It's just defending it and not welcoming to feedback.

What would you like me to change?

“Balancing issues” is one thing. But every single game that has been played with even one seer has been a wipeout for the town. The one game with no seers was a wipeout for the wolves.

What do you want?

 

[Smacktard]

What would you like me to change?

“Balancing issues” is one thing. But every single game that has been played with even one seer has been a wipeout for the town. The one game with no seers was a wipeout for the wolves.

What do you want?

One more wolf. Regular wolf, no abilities. Just another number for them. Helps to balance against RK accidentally killing wolves too a bit, right? What do you think?

 

[TD]

I'm open to hearing them. Obviously I have blinders on, that's why I'm appealing to people to point out my mistakes. I genuinely want to learn from them.

I can provide feedback if you want it.

First I'll say that I respect you didn't roll over Day 3 despite it feeling like a lost cause, that's how I felt Day 2 too.

- I think one of your biggest slip ups was going from Tubby is suspicious to later posting that he could be the aura seer, that completely discredited your unknown read, if you're going to be suspicious of him as a false role claim seer, stick to that suspicion and don't go back on it
- You should've been up front in Day 2 when you claimed aura seer who your night 0 read was as well instead of waiting to Day 3
- Reading Ben as Good after the Trickster Wolf was in play and you were already being accused, you didn't know any one so needed to guess, if you believed he was Good, you should've claimed I was Evil
- As the Corrupter, KILL, you over thought this when you wanted to deflect to Tubby, the roles you kill are hidden and that creates even more uncertainty for everyone's role claims

 

[Smacktard]

Thanks for the feedback, I genuinely appreciate it.

Reading Ben as Good after the Trickster Wolf was in play and you were already being accused, you didn't know any one so needed to guess, if you believed he was Good, you should've claimed I was Evil

This play I will stand by no matter what. My logic about claiming Ben to be good made sense though. I really thought that the witch was going to kill you that night, so why would I check you? Instead I could check Ben (who was begging to be protected -- and who was protected, FWIW, and so more likely to remain alive and provide a check) and make sure he wasn't RK. It achieves the same purpose as just seering you, but would've provided more info. Plus, someone mentioned the possibility that Ben, could've been throwing the Shadow Wolf (you) under the bus to gain cred with the village, while secretly being wolf himself.

 

[TD]

My logic about claiming Ben to be good made sense though. I really thought that the witch was going to kill you that night, so why would I check you? Instead I could check Ben (who was begging to be protected -- and who was protected, FWIW) and make sure he wasn't RK. It achieves the same purpose as just seering you, but would've provided more info.

I definitely see your logic but the best way to prove your worth and validity as an aura seer is to provide an Evil read. Outing Good people consistently really only helps the wolves (the same feedback I gave Tubby about Day 1).

 

[Ants!]

...to be fair, Christina said it first.

(I know this because I didn't even think of that until she said it)

Part of it was also because it’s how you reacted when I jokingly accused you. Like Coleman pointed out: turning around and accusing the person who accused you always seems like a desperate play by a wolf. When she first said it, it felt more like just somebody trying to figure out who the wolves could be.

Also props to her for being a wolf and seeming so innocent that I thought she was safe to verify. Cudos on her first game

 

[TD]

What would you like me to change?

“Balancing issues” is one thing. But every single game that has been played with even one seer has been a wipeout for the town. The one game with no seers was a wipeout for the wolves.

What do you want?

The way you want this game to run - you said you don't want the town to make one mistake and lose, I get that. But if the wolves make one mistake or unluckily target someone, it's basically game over.

By my count this game had 4 roles that were seer like, 4 roles that could protect, 4 roles that could kill (overlap with protect), someone who could speak to the dead and revive..

That's not even counting the whole Cupid shit and the wolves all getting revealed.

 

[Zell 17]

The fact that there's no acknowledgement that there's severe balancing issues is another big reason I'm done.

It's just defending it and not welcoming to feedback.

I want to expand on this further too. I don't want it to seem like I'm not listening, but here are the problems as I see them. Please tell me where you disagree.

1) Problem number 1 for me is that the evils are prematurely actively helping the town. If the goal was just to cause a town loss, each of the last two games would have been easy evil wins. Game 4 had the headhunter helping the village even though their target was alive. Game 4 also had the RK vs wolf vs 2 town situation where the RK killed the wolf because "I want the town to win if I can't.

Game 5 had the wolves gang up and wipe out the RK even though the town had bullets AND protections left. Then, when the lovers were about to win and the town about to lose, the wolves actively helped the town foil the lover's plot. If the evils just focused on beating the village they would do so. But so far, everyone seems to be hedging their bets on helping the town out if it looks like they will lose when they don't need the help.

2) Each game I've posted what the "optimal strategy" is for wolves, and nobody has run it yet (All four have a claim day 1. At least one person if not 2+ is faking seer with fake information). You don't HAVE to follow my strategy of course. There are other ways to win. But I'm worried that if I add a wolf and then the wolves decide to finally go for it the game will be literally over on day 2. This was yet another game where literally the last four players to enter a public claim of any kind were all wolves. That seems...suboptimal.

3) The random killer has a 2/3 chance of killing a villager if they just go at it randomly. So far, through 5 games, NONE have been killed. That seems like an almost impossible statistic to keep going and obviously heavily benefits the town.

4) The games have been getting adjusted. It's not just accidental that the games have been getting closer and closer. The RV list has been growing with more and more....neutered roles, which waters down what the town can. Instead of an extra aura seer, the town got a suiciding prostitute. The wolves have been getting buffed roles (that shadow is pretty powerful, eh?). This game, instead of a fixed gunner with multiple bullets, the town got a witch with one. This game also had a fixed flower child, perhaps the most useless of all roles. I will say it is a little annoying to be told you are doing nothing about balance when changes are obviously affecting the game. The first 7 players killed in this game were all townies, and it definitely wasn't because of the strength of the wolves claims.

Okay, let's ignore those and say we want to make some drastic changes to carry the evils to a win. I can't make the evils stop helping the town as much as I would like to (but seriously...the town doesn't need your help guys). So I need to mess with the roles...more so than I already have done, apparently. Kelly suggests adding a wolf.

We actually tried that in game 3. Added a wolf-aligned player at the expense of the random voting. The RK burned three wolves instead of one. People complained that without the random voting role game 3 was even more imbalanced towards the town.

So instead of adding a wolf at the expense of the random voting, we could add it at the expense of a villager. So we start the game with 5 wolves, 1 random voting, 1 rk, and 9 villagers. Now let's say night 1 the wolves kill someone and the RK kills a villager (I know, I know, impossible right). Now on Day 1 it's 7 townie vs 7 non-townie. If the evils actually together played to hurt the town the game is over already without the town making a single mistake or even casting a vote.

The real option for me at least, and one I will likely use in either the next game or the one after, is to replace the RK with a wolf in the game 3 setup. So you would have 10 town and 6 wolf/wolf-aligned players and NO solos. Probably next game I go with instigator and some significantly neutered town roles (Medium swapped for Conjuror (no revives). Jailer swapped for flagger. Witch swapped for bully (can only kill every other day).

 

[Smacktard]

I like you talking is through your thought process. It's really informative.

That said, I really hope you don't get rid of the RK roles. They add so much fun, unpredictability, and flavor to the game. I'd take losing as a wolf every single game over the RK role being retired.

 

[TD]

First I want to acknowledge you talking about this - thank you. There's a lot to read and respond to, because I want to have that discussion I'll respond on my lunch break.

 

[Tubby23]

I'm just kidding bb, I won't even vote for you first round next game, I promise. <3

 

[Ants!]

I like you talking is through your thought process. It's really informative.

That said, I really hope you don't get rid of the RK roles. They add so much fun, unpredictability, and flavor to the game. I'd take losing as a wolf every single game over the RK role being retired.

Agree, RK is the best role!!

 

[VashTheStampede]

I like the idea of not knowing IF there's a RK to add more intrigue.

 

[Zell 17]

I like the idea of not knowing IF there's a RK to add more intrigue.

Hey there’s an idea too. We could use the same setup (10x town 1 RK 1 RV 4 wolves) but hide the role list.

I think the town gets CRUSHED.

 

[TD]

1) Problem number 1 for me is that the evils are prematurely actively helping the town. If the goal was just to cause a town loss, each of the last two games would have been easy evil wins. Game 4 had the headhunter helping the village even though their target was alive. Game 4 also had the RK vs wolf vs 2 town situation where the RK killed the wolf because "I want the town to win if I can't.

Game 5 had the wolves gang up and wipe out the RK even though the town had bullets AND protections left. Then, when the lovers were about to win and the town about to lose, the wolves actively helped the town foil the lover's plot. If the evils just focused on beating the village they would do so. But so far, everyone seems to be hedging their bets on helping the town out if it looks like they will lose when they don't need the help.

I don't disagree with this one. The headhunter one was a great example, I also wouldn't have played Day 4 the way kut/Alu did.

Regarding the lovers, I actually really wanted to change the plan partway through that night after we decided on Ben. The gut feeling crept in that Vash/Christina weren't gonna let us win. We know how that worked out.

I was acting under the assumption that I would die. I didn't realize until it was too late that shortkut couldn't vote due to using his seer ability, I was going to die - and that means if there was a difference in voting due to the ranking, Christina's vote would win in the event of a split vote and she never would've voted Vash.

Speaking of, why can't wolf seer vote?

2) Each game I've posted what the "optimal strategy" is for wolves, and nobody has run it yet (All four have a claim day 1. At least one person if not 2+ is faking seer with fake information). You don't HAVE to follow my strategy of course. There are other ways to win. But I'm worried that if I add a wolf and then the wolves decide to finally go for it the game will be literally over on day 2. This was yet another game where literally the last four players to enter a public claim of any kind were all wolves. That seems...suboptimal.

The last four to claim were all wolves? That's not accurate. There wasn't a ton of claiming in Day 1 (only a few really) and pretty early into Day 2 I claimed doctor (even before Benzine).

But I do see your point overall. I think part of it is a lot of people inherently don't want to role claim.

I think one of the big issues is this mindset that people who talk a lot, fish, or investigate are suspicious. I've been an early suspect in all 5 games I've played, 3x townie, 2x wolf.

The problem is you need to cover your bases solidly and make it believable. Kelly had the right idea but like I mentioned, holes.

3) The random killer has a 2/3 chance of killing a villager if they just go at it randomly. So far, through 5 games, NONE have been killed. That seems like an almost impossible statistic to keep going and obviously heavily benefits the town.

Okay yeah I don't know what's up with the random killers that get the roles these games so far. It seems like the coolest role but aside from when Vash torched the wolves, there hasn't been an impact.

4) The games have been getting adjusted. It's not just accidental that the games have been getting closer and closer. The RV list has been growing with more and more....neutered roles, which waters down what the town can. Instead of an extra aura seer, the town got a suiciding prostitute. The wolves have been getting buffed roles (that shadow is pretty powerful, eh?). This game, instead of a fixed gunner with multiple bullets, the town got a witch with one. This game also had a fixed flower child, perhaps the most useless of all roles. I will say it is a little annoying to be told you are doing nothing about balance when changes are obviously affecting the game. The first 7 players killed in this game were all townies, and it definitely wasn't because of the strength of the wolves claims.

The shadow is powerful but it's also very restrictive - the not being able to talk during the day is insane to work around.

Like you suggested, I would've suggested new targets if we could talk. We needed to use it early to get the 8x votes and we had to use it before killing Christina.

Could I have just mailed it in and given it up since I was potentially outed and just said "WOLVES KILL X"? Maybe, but everyone would've had to silently agree with me, we would've had to win the vote, and I spread enough doubt with living that Local took out Benzine.

Also re: Flower Child, truthfully I thought it could stop any lynch and didn't need to pick a target.

I don't have a solution but another piece of feedback is that it's really hard to sort through the dictionary and keep everything straight. I know I'm not the only one with this issue.

The real option for me at least, and one I will likely use in either the next game or the one after, is to replace the RK with a wolf in the game 3 setup. So you would have 10 town and 6 wolf/wolf-aligned players and NO solos. Probably next game I go with instigator and some significantly neutered town roles (Medium swapped for Conjuror (no revives). Jailer swapped for flagger. Witch swapped for bully (can only kill every other day).

As others have said, I would prefer to see the RK in these games (as long as they do something). I do think Medium is pretty insane in this format.

I know you base this off Wolvesville, but that seems to be sorting through a massive amount of info in a short amount of time and making snap decisions.

All this time in here? That works against the wolves too, now the time is needed because it's a forum version but that's affecting it too.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I have a theory that the RK doesn't make that big of a dent because our games don't last that long. They play for a long game that doesn't exist. But I think they innately NEED a long game to work.

It's a conundrum. But I could be way off.

 

[Smacktard]

Hey there’s an idea too. We could use the same setup (10x town 1 RK 1 RV 4 wolves) but hide the role list.

I think the town gets CRUSHED.

I was thinking this is what you would do for your next game when you hinted it would be somewhere between real game/meme game.

 

[TD]

Hey there’s an idea too. We could use the same setup (10x town 1 RK 1 RV 4 wolves) but hide the role list.

I think the town gets CRUSHED.

If the town didn't get crushed with a completely hidden role list, bad wolves.

in before 16 people claim Aura Seer

 

[TD]

I have a theory that the RK doesn't make that big of a dent because our games don't last that long. They play for a long game that doesn't exist. But I think they innately NEED a long game to work.

It's a conundrum. But I could be way off.

This is a good point too. Everything feels to be completely out in the open by Day 3, except for the one game that there was a Confusion Wolf.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The gut feeling crept in that Vash/Christina weren't gonna let us win.

This is honest curiosity and not me being a smartass:

What did you expect?

 

[TD]

This is honest curiosity and not me being a smartass:

What did you expect?

I expected to die that night and for you and Christina to turn on us. I didn't expect you to revive someone as everyone in the dead thread would've known you didn't want the town to win.

Why I didn't plead the case in the chat?

I didn't know how to go about it, felt genuinely awkward at a human level having that conversation in front of Christina, and also felt pretty discouraged overall with us all getting exposed to you and presumably in the dead thread.

 

[TD]

I really wanted to know how it would've turned out if you didn't revive Tommy, but we'll never know.

Without that move, kut and Alu don't turn on you and things maybe go very differently.

 

[Zell 17]

I was thinking this is what you would do for your next game when you hinted it would be somewhere between real game/meme game.

Oh I already know what I'm doing for the next meme game.

Color wars. 4 teams of four, team info is public. Each team gets one wolf that can vote to kill someone at night. Other roles will be stuff like avenger, witch, beast hunter, etc.

Last team alive wins.

 

[Christina]

Ok. I feel stupid need to put my real game analysis out here. I do not know if or when Zell will post the wolf and lover convos. I agreed to play this game and was going to with the best of my abilities because that is my morales. But I really would have been happy dying night 1 and shit posting in the dead forum. Then I get a message from Zell. I am a wolf. Now I have a small team that is depending on me trying not to die day one. I got to trying to read the dictionary now because I wasn't going to be dead night 1. This also was stressful because Vash was not a wolf and we live together. I remembered to silence my phone because I was about to be getting notifications during night phases. Maybe I could lie and tell my husband I was cheating on him so he wouldn't know I was a wolf. Then right before the day started and I get another convo that I'm a lover with Vash. Great I'm cheating on my husband with my husband! This changed things. My goal as I read in rules was to win with my lover. Cupid could die though. I was now playing some kind of sleeper cell or double agent. How the hell did this get so complicated so fast. On the plus side, Vash now knew I was a wolf and proceeded to tell me he had already figured it out the night before. I can never keep anything from him, even if I tried I guess. So now I survive. Advantage is that nobody knew what kind of player I was and most likely people were not going to be an asshole and vote to kill me right off the bat. So shit post I did. Ants came out as the red lady, so that wouldn't be a bad kill for the wolves. Let me try and help by poking some holes in his claim. Then back to more shit posting and people complaining about the shit posting. I'm still a wolf, and need a lot of townies dead either winning with wolves or cupid. The more posts the better. Drown people in posts so they have a harder time getting any information. No lynch, so take that as a win for the day. Day 2, shadow day. Things got more serious. No room for a lot of shit posting. Nobody was looking in my direction, so I for the most part pulled a Homer going into the bushes and kept a low profile while trying to not seem like I was. I felt it was also knowing when to not to rise to the bait and shut up. I was proud. People kept talking about 3 wolves and not 4. Day 3 became the death of the killer. The one person who could accentedly destroy the cupid win. Or on purpose. I have no chat with the killer. I have no idea what they are and what they are planning. Mind you I'm in the town chat, wolf chat and lovers chat. My lover has the dead chat. We have all the info. Matt and I did not just hand each other phones to read the chats we personally didn't have, but we talked about that stuff. We thought this more fair. Thus, I started a whole thing when I accidentally miss repercented a thing from the wolf chat. I really don't remember what I exactly said to Matt. But we are moving on. Feeling like Helen of Troy or something. Were was I. Yes! Kill the killer. Kill Smacktard. Keep my head down some more. Crap, Cole was not bought in to the Smacktard kill. At this point I 100% knew Cole was Cupid. I had thought all a long it was him because he totally would pair Vash and I. I poke my head out to turn Cole to team kill Smacktard. Nobody was changing their minds on Smacktard, so I stayed out of the way. Smacktard pointed out that yes the number between town and wolf needed to be close for a Cupid win. I had run names and numbers and really did have lists. Local Hero had killed Benzine. A townie. Throwing off the numbers. Crap. Wolves win unless Jawneh, who for reasons I did not understand admitted to being a witch and how many potions he had, killed TD or any other wolf by me. Hopefully not Alu, because I out ranked Alu in the wolf vote, but not TD or kut. This is when the other wolves should have turned on me. They should have killed me and thus Vash too and hoped Vash didn't bring back somebody with all the knowledge. Vash stuck with the original plan we needed to keep a wolf win from happening before Benzine was killed and still brought back Tommy. He's person as the townie he was to guarantee that the wolves wouldn't win. This was my biggest mistake. Not pushing back harder against bringing back Tommy. But at the end of the day the medium was his power to do with what he felt was right. Jawneh pulls his hail mary. This guarantees a wolf lose, but now team cupid needs everything to go just right. Vash has the lead of the town. Cole is part of team Cupid voting block. Thus I have to make sure he stays alive now because we need his vote. It all came down to if Tommy jailed me intead of kut at the end of the day. We needed to hope that others had not put the math together. The other wolves saw it as Vash betraying the alliance, but really it was me. I made my choice to play the cupid role as I perceived it to be. I thought it would be taken as a more "curse your inevitable betrayal". That they would accept their fate and Vash and I just needed to have the town go along and not realize the numbers until the day vote locked 3 to 3 to lynch me. Tommy would be the king maker, all hinging on if he had put that together or not. Thank you if you read my rambling story where I may have forgotten a day in there. Screw you if you didn't. this was not proof read. You deal with my dyslexic mistakes today!

 

[Zell 17]

As others have said, I would prefer to see the RK in these games (as long as they do something). I do think Medium is pretty insane in this format.

I know you base this off Wolvesville, but that seems to be sorting through a massive amount of info in a short amount of time and making snap decisions.

All this time in here? That works against the wolves too, now the time is needed because it's a forum version but that's affecting it too.

Time definitely works against the wolves. Every team is going to make a move that has at least SOME thought put into it, because they have time to sort things. It's based on Wolvesville, but not religiously so. Wolvesville is broken anyways because everyone is dumb.

Yeah I understand the dictionary can be confusing. You think alphabetizing would help or what? That's part of the reason I'm rotating the roles around here, once they've all appeared in a game at least once people will have a better feel for how they work.

 

[Tommy Boy]

Ok. I feel stupid need to put my real game analysis out here. I do not know if or when Zell will post the wolf and lover convos. I agreed to play this game and was going to with the best of my abilities because that is my morales. But I really would have been happy dying night 1 and shit posting in the dead forum. Then I get a message from Zell. I am a wolf. Now I have a small team that is depending on me trying not to die day one. I got to trying to read the dictionary now because I wasn't going to be dead night 1. This also was stressful because Vash was not a wolf and we live together. I remembered to silence my phone because I was about to be getting notifications during night phases. Maybe I could lie and tell my husband I was cheating on him so he wouldn't know I was a wolf. Then right before the day started and I get another convo that I'm a lover with Vash. Great I'm cheating on my husband with my husband! This changed things. My goal as I read in rules was to win with my lover. Cupid could die though. I was now playing some kind of sleeper cell or double agent. How the hell did this get so complicated so fast. On the plus side, Vash now knew I was a wolf and proceeded to tell me he had already figured it out the night before. I can never keep anything from him, even if I tried I guess. So now I survive. Advantage is that nobody knew what kind of player I was and most likely people were not going to be an asshole and vote to kill me right off the bat. So shit post I did. Ants came out as the red lady, so that wouldn't be a bad kill for the wolves. Let me try and help by poking some holes in his claim. Then back to more shit posting and people complaining about the shit posting. I'm still a wolf, and need a lot of townies dead either winning with wolves or cupid. The more posts the better. Drown people in posts so they have a harder time getting any information. No lynch, so take that as a win for the day. Day 2, shadow day. Things got more serious. No room for a lot of shit posting. Nobody was looking in my direction, so I for the most part pulled a Homer going into the bushes and kept a low profile while trying to not seem like I was. I felt it was also knowing when to not to rise to the bait and shut up. I was proud. People kept talking about 3 wolves and not 4. Day 3 became the death of the killer. The one person who could accentedly destroy the cupid win. Or on purpose. I have no chat with the killer. I have no idea what they are and what they are planning. Mind you I'm in the town chat, wolf chat and lovers chat. My lover has the dead chat. We have all the info. Matt and I did not just hand each other phones to read the chats we personally didn't have, but we talked about that stuff. We thought this more fair. Thus, I started a whole thing when I accidentally miss repercented a thing from the wolf chat. I really don't remember what I exactly said to Matt. But we are moving on. Feeling like Helen of Troy or something. Were was I. Yes! Kill the killer. Kill Smacktard. Keep my head down some more. Crap, Cole was not bought in to the Smacktard kill. At this point I 100% knew Cole was Cupid. I had thought all a long it was him because he totally would pair Vash and I. I poke my head out to turn Cole to team kill Smacktard. Nobody was changing their minds on Smacktard, so I stayed out of the way. Smacktard pointed out that yes the number between town and wolf needed to be close for a Cupid win. I had run names and numbers and really did have lists. Local Hero had killed Benzine. A townie. Throwing off the numbers. Crap. Wolves win unless Jawneh, who for reasons I did not understand admitted to being a witch and how many potions he had, killed TD or any other wolf by me. Hopefully not Alu, because I out ranked Alu in the wolf vote, but not TD or kut. This is when the other wolves should have turned on me. They should have killed me and thus Vash too and hoped Vash didn't bring back somebody with all the knowledge. Vash stuck with the original plan we needed to keep a wolf win from happening before Benzine was killed and still brought back Tommy. He's person as the townie he was to guarantee that the wolves wouldn't win. This was my biggest mistake. Not pushing back harder against bringing back Tommy. But at the end of the day the medium was his power to do with what he felt was right. Jawneh pulls his hail mary. This guarantees a wolf lose, but now team cupid needs everything to go just right. Vash has the lead of the town. Cole is part of team Cupid voting block. Thus I have to make sure he stays alive now because we need his vote. It all came down to if Tommy jailed me intead of kut at the end of the day. We needed to hope that others had not put the math together. The other wolves saw it as Vash betraying the alliance, but really it was me. I made my choice to play the cupid role as I perceived it to be. I thought it would be taken as a more "curse your inevitable betrayal". That they would accept their fate and Vash and I just needed to have the town go along and not realize the numbers until the day vote locked 3 to 3 to lynch me. Tommy would be the king maker, all hinging on if he had put that together or not. Thank you if you read my rambling story where I may have forgotten a day in there. Screw you if you didn't. this was not proof read. You deal with my dyslexic mistakes today!

If it hadn't been for shortkut's math explanation, I was fully ready to jail him instead of you. I will admit I was completely confused and the pressure was getting to me. I switched my vote three times before the day phase ended. I went from being dead to being a pivotal role in the game which was enthralling but also sent me shaking with anxiety worried I was going to ruin everything lol. I had no idea about draws/deadlock votes, I never read that far into it.

You played fucking fantastic for the hand you were dealt. For your first game, that's so much pressure. You did what you through was best, and that's how you play wolf. I think considering the odds, you handled everything great, and if it wasn't for ultimately needing to do the right thing for the good of the town, I probably would have fell for the trick and you and Vash would have won. In any case, huge props. I hope you play again soon, you are a worthy adversary (or town member!)

 

[Zell 17]

I was acting under the assumption that I would die. I didn't realize until it was too late that shortkut couldn't vote due to using his seer ability, I was going to die - and that means if there was a difference in voting due to the ranking, Christina's vote would win in the event of a split vote and she never would've voted Vash.

Speaking of, why can't wolf seer vote?

So Christina would only outrank Alu in the event of a tie. You and shortkut could solo outvote her.

The wolf seer can't vote because they're the highest ranking wolf, and seer power + ultimate authority is too much. Why are they the highest ranking wolf? It's so that they'd be the last wolf killed by the beast hunter / viewed by the sheriff since getting the wolf seer out early is a big benefit to the town.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Yeah, we still had a shot at the end until shortkut held a seminar for the town on how to beat the evil Power Couple. Just needed that one last night.

 

[VashTheStampede]

BTW I'll never forgive Zell for vetoing "Christapede" for our power couple name.

 

[Zell 17]

The shadow is powerful but it's also very restrictive - the not being able to talk during the day is insane to work around.

Yeah it basically worked exactly as designed. The wolves can take one lynch from the town AND use it to kill a villager. BUT, they can't use any of the information they learned the day of. Or if they do, they risk misusing the shadow. So you could say something in chat like "Vote the first person to claim aura seer". But then...maybe nobody claims aura. Maybe the first person to claim aura gets called unknown by a second aura claim. Maybe someone else claims Medium and you would REALLY like to vote them instead. So there's tradeoffs.

 

[Zell 17]

BTW I'll never forgive Zell for vetoing "Christapede" for our power couple name.

In lovers chat I called it "The many-legged monster that died for your sins"

 

[Christina]

I will say Jawneh both role claiming and saying who and how many potions was a help for the cupid/wolf side. Just for future thoughts. I had a bad feeling about going after Ben that night with the wolves but the other person talked about was Cole and I needed Cole for the voting block. I tried to hint Jawneh but I didn't have any good reasoning. So Ben it was. I am curious as to who LH protected. My gut told me Vash. If Tommy would have jailed kut, I would have voted LH to die because he couldn't protect himself.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Also hey uh @Tubby23 I totally voted with the wolves to kill you under shadow.

Needed my lover to be able to steal your aura.

 

[Zell 17]

I will say Jawneh both role claiming and saying who and how many potions was a help for the cupid/wolf side. Just for future thoughts. I had a bad feeling about going after Ben that night with the wolves but the other person talked about was Cole and I needed Cole for the voting block. I tried to hint Jawneh but I didn't have any good reasoning. So Ben it was. I am curious as to who LH protected. My gut told me Vash. If Tommy would have jailed kut, I would have voted LH to die because he couldn't protect himself.

He protected Jawneh every single night.

 

[Zell 17]

Also hey uh @Tubby23 I totally voted with the wolves to kill you under shadow.

Needed my lover to be able to steal your aura.

She stole his aura....but there was nobody else left to check it!

 

[TD]

Yeah I understand the dictionary can be confusing. You think alphabetizing would help or what? That's part of the reason I'm rotating the roles around here, once they've all appeared in a game at least once people will have a better feel for how they work.

Alphabetical order is a good idea. I think cleaning up the spacing and formatting could help too.

Something like

Role Name
Aura
Description

line break, repeat in alpha order.

So Christina would only outrank Alu in the event of a tie. You and shortkut could solo outvote her.

But kut didn't have a vote because he used his seer ability. I die. Christina's vote wins, right?

Or do I have that wrong?

Yeah, we still had a shot at the end until shortkut held a seminar for the town on how to beat the evil Power Couple. Just needed that one last night.

Honestly if you don't revive Tommy and come in so aggressive you probably pull it off.

1) Cole was already suspicious of shortkut, if you could lean on Cole to go after shortkut and get him lynched, you win
2) The only wolves left are Christina and Alu, in the event of a tie even if they disagree, Christina controls the wolf kill
3) Lynch Alu
4) Christina kills someone else
5) You, Christina, and Cole control the vote if there's anyone else left

 

[Christina]

He protected Jawneh every single night.

That makes so much since. Because he was verified townie by Ants. Dang, I feel I didn't think that out enough.

 

[Zell 17]

Alphabetical order is a good idea. I think cleaning up the spacing and formatting could help too.

Something like

Role Name
Aura
Description

line break, repeat in alpha order.

But kut didn't have a vote because he used his seer ability. I die. Christina's vote wins, right?

Or do I have that wrong?

He could use his seer ability and then resign and vote the same night. Broken huh??

 

[TD]

He could use his seer ability and then resign and vote the same night. Broken huh??

I didn't even know that was possible. I assumed once he used it that was it.

I think that's something else - there's a lot of unwritten possibilities that can occur. Like if I knew that? Would've gone for it.

And I know it's impossible to layout every intricacy of everyone, but maybe all that just makes things complicated.

 

[Zell 17]

I’ll go play with the dictionary to organize it. I had to do a LOT of rewriting of the medium for Vash, he wanted to revive dead wolves and all sorts of stuff