Zell Wolf Discussion Thread Game 5

[Christina]

I still want to be able to trickster wolf multiple times. Because that would be super funny.

 

[Tommy Boy]

I’ll go play with the dictionary to organize it. I had to do a LOT of rewriting of the medium for Vash, he wanted to revive dead wolves and all sorts of stuff

Oh so that's what he was waiting on before reviving me, GREAT

 

[TD]

I’ll go play with the dictionary to organize it. I had to do a LOT of rewriting of the medium for Vash, he wanted to revive dead wolves and all sorts of stuff

On that note, can I also suggest you list all the possible random roles in alpha order too? It's easy to miss possibilities when there are so many.

 

[Zell 17]

On that note, can I also suggest you list all the possible random roles in alpha order too? It's easy to miss possibilities when there are so many.

Yeah while I'm add it I'm going to split the villager section into roles that can be random and roles that can't. And I'm renaming the "Plain Villager with no powers" from "Villager" to "Farmer".

 

[TD]

Maybe I could lie and tell my husband I was cheating on him so he wouldn't know I was a wolf.

I laughed unnecessarily loud at this.

 

[Tubby23]

GAlso hey uh @Tubby23 I totally voted with the wolves to kill you under shadow.

Needed my lover to be able to steal your aura.

 

[Christina]

I'm also very sad I did not get the reaction I was hoping for in the dead chat when I told Smacktard he should be ashamed of himself for killing Ants. Knowning full well that it was Ants visiting me that got him killed. I wanted a, "oh that bitch!" Or something. #sexworkisrealwork

 

[VashTheStampede]

She stole his aura....but there was nobody else left to check it!

Didn't know Jawneh's role at that point and to assume there's no more seers in a Zell game, well....

 

[VashTheStampede]

I’ll go play with the dictionary to organize it. I had to do a LOT of rewriting of the medium for Vash, he wanted to revive dead wolves and all sorts of stuff

SEE, WOLVES, I WAS HELPING

definitely not trying to bring Tubby back to bring about your demise

 

[VashTheStampede]

Honestly if you don't revive Tommy and come in so aggressive you probably pull it off.

We had no way of knowing there would be 2 witch successes that night.

We desperately needed a body.

 

[Tubby23]

SEE, WOLVES, I WAS HELPING

definitely not trying to bring Tubby back to bring about your demise

I was so down for that. That said I imagine I would have been fairly tempted to flip once back in game and wanting to win haha

 

[Zell 17]

Alright I edited the dictionary AND added a blurb about how the wolf mechanics work and how it could be beneficial to tactically split your votes.

 

[VashTheStampede]

My opinion (completely unbiased and taking emotions out of the situation) is that the wolves should have stood aside and let the Lovers win when the jig was up, or at least didn't actively help their enemy defeat us. We helped them succeed as much as they did, and at least one of their own would secure a win.

Felt like the Wolf equivalent of flipping the boardgame table because you lost a game.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I was so down for that. That said I imagine I would have been fairly tempted to flip once back in game and wanting to win haha

As you should have! Play the objective!

All in all it was a stupid gambit and a mistake on my part, I just didn't see another way.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Alright I edited the dictionary AND added a blurb about how the wolf mechanics work and how it could be beneficial to tactically split your votes.

That was one thing that was an incredibly minor nuisance IMO

I don't think you should give strategy advice to anyone unless you're providing the entire game with the information.

Of course if you did that and I missed it amongst the shitposting, I withdraw.

 

[Zell 17]

That was one thing that was an incredibly minor nuisance IMO

I don't think you should give strategy advice to anyone unless you're providing the entire game with the information.

Of course if you did that and I missed it amongst the shitposting, I withdraw.

You mean about the wolves splitting votes? To me it's kind of one of those things where the game mechanics aren't at all obvious. I see it more as an explanation of how their role works. Which should be in the dictionary! So now it is. I made sure to tell them on a night where it didn't matter. But just like I didn't tell the whole town "Hey, the medium wants to revive wolves and I told them no" I didn't tell them the clarification I gave the wolves.

Plus, I was worried that if I told the town when I told the wolves (after Benzine was killed by the witch) they probably would have thought I was putting my thumb on the scales (Oh, the wolves attacked Benzine but Zell made up a new rule to let them attack Tommy Boy instead and get an extra kill!) Of course the wolves attacked Tommy Boy all along.

If it makes you feel better the wolves have never targeted anyone that was killed by someone else in any of the games including this game. And now it's out there for everyone in the dictionary.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Yeah, I considered it an incredibly minor nuisance because it didn't end up affecting the game at all, and I love the idea of it being in the dictionary. Just suggesting that in the future either wait until between games or post it for all to see. I get why you didn't do the latter this time though.

 

[VashTheStampede]

 

[TD]

We had no way of knowing there would be 2 witch successes that night.

We desperately needed a body.

I honestly thought you would've chanced me dying, with you covering for Christina - I would've thought revive was off the table as it was suicide.

You mention the wolves not wanting you to win as a couple - but honestly this move screams you not wanting the wolves to win.

Alright I edited the dictionary AND added a blurb about how the wolf mechanics work and how it could be beneficial to tactically split your votes.

This looks WAY better and is way easier to read. Nicely done. Will all the roles listed as random always be in the random pool?

I ask because my biggest pain point was bouncing between the dictionary and the first post.

 

[Zell 17]

This looks WAY better and is way easier to read. Nicely done. Will all the roles listed as random always be in the random pool?

I ask because my biggest pain point was bouncing between the dictionary and the first post.

Yes to the random roles

 

[TD]

Just suggesting that in the future either wait until between games or post it for all to see. I get why you didn't do the latter this time though.

I know where you're coming from but it also shouldn't be up to us as players to ask clarifying questions and at the same time it's impossible for Zell to cover everything.

For example if I knew shortkut could give it up after using it and vote with us, I would've approached it differently.

 

[Zell 17]

Just wanna get better with every game fellas

 

[VashTheStampede]

I know where you're coming from but it also shouldn't be up to us as players to ask clarifying questions and at the same time it's impossible for Zell to cover everything.

For example if I knew shortkut could give it up after using it and vote with us, I would've approached it differently.

We might be talking about different things or (more likely) I don't have all the facts of the situation I'm referring to.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Just wanna get better with every game fellas

I think you're doing fine.

It's a LOT.

I was spending a lot of my game thinking WWZD

 

[TD]

We might be talking about different things or (more likely) I don't have all the facts of the situation I'm referring to.

I'm guessing you're talking about the split vote.

I'm talking about the new addition to the dictionary Zell just made under Wolf Seer:
"The Wolf Seer can check, resign, and vote in the same night."

If I had known that, I would've brought up killing you the night you revived, but alas I evidently incorrectly assumed.

 

[Christina]

I know where you're coming from but it also shouldn't be up to us as players to ask clarifying questions and at the same time it's impossible for Zell to cover everything.

For example if I knew shortkut could give it up after using it and vote with us, I would've approached it differently.

Man did I have it wrong. I thought it was Alu for sure who did not trust me at all (rightfully). I think it was Alu's cold read on Vash that shook me about him. Not realizing I wasn't trying to make a read on Vash to see anything there because I already knew. The way the cupid played out in this game made this game about betrayal more than any other. The wolf chat had the same problem the town chat does with a betrayer in their mists.

 

[VashTheStampede]

You mention the wolves not wanting you to win as a couple - but honestly this move screams you not wanting the wolves to win.

My given objectives were to win as a couple and, failing that, win with the town.

So, yeah?

 

[Zell 17]

Everyone is here now!

 

[TD]

Man did I have it wrong. I thought it was Alu for sure who did not trust me at all (rightfully). I think it was Alu's cold read on Vash that shook me about him. Not realizing I wasn't trying to make a read on Vash to see anything there because I already knew. The way the cupid played out in this game made this game about betrayal more than any other. The wolf chat had the same problem the town chat does with a betrayer in their mists.

...I was also the first to cold read Vash and I'm actually the one who said don't bother seering him either.

But that's okay, I'll take your misplaced fear of Alu. lol

 

[Zell 17]

I will say there's a major risk to the way the townies played day 1 with hinting roles instead of claiming.

The wolves figured out basically everyone's roles day 1 by picking up the hints. The villagers didn't pick up shit. That's....not a great combo for the town lol.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Man did I have it wrong. I thought it was Alu for sure who did not trust me at all (rightfully). I think it was Alu's cold read on Vash that shook me about him. Not realizing I wasn't trying to make a read on Vash to see anything there because I already knew. The way the cupid played out in this game made this game about betrayal more than any other. The wolf chat had the same problem the town chat does with a betrayer in their mists.

Also when she was talking to me about revealing ourselves to the wolves, part of her reasoning was so they wouldn't waste a Seer check on me for info she already knew.

 

[TD]

My given objectives were to win as a couple and, failing that, win with the town.

So, yeah?

The moment you revived Tommy you gave up winning as a couple, so yeah if you wanted to win as a townie you did well then.

 

[TD]

I will say there's a major risk to the way the townies played day 1 with hinting roles instead of claiming.

The wolves figured out basically everyone's roles day 1 by picking up the hints. The villagers didn't pick up shit. That's....not a great combo for the town lol.

This was actually pretty hilarious.

 

[Ants!]

Hey there’s an idea too. We could use the same setup (10x town 1 RK 1 RV 4 wolves) but hide the role list.

I think the town gets CRUSHED.

I support this 100%! Wolves have way more chances to hide. Before it was all about okay we have 7 people claiming the three random townie roles so let’s start working from there.

I expected to die that night and for you and Christina to turn on us. I didn't expect you to revive someone as everyone in the dead thread would've known you didn't want the town to win.

Why I didn't plead the case in the chat?

I didn't know how to go about it, felt genuinely awkward at a human level having that conversation in front of Christina, and also felt pretty discouraged overall with us all getting exposed to you and presumably in the dead thread.

I don’t get the wolves being bitter, because Vash turned against the town FIRST. I literally died finding out Christina was a wolf, imagine the frustration learning the medium is intentionally sitting on that information to make sure your (and his) team loses.

 

[Christina]

Except for Jawneh. Could not figure out what he was until he role claimed. Though that night he was going to be seered anyways. He was nice enough to let us know who had what potions left.

 

[VashTheStampede]

The moment you revived Tommy you gave up winning as a couple, so yeah if you wanted to win as a townie you did well then.

I never gave up. I took a massive risk and appealed to hearts and minds and also the hope that people would want to see something cool happen. It failed.

It was a play, obviously a bad play, and one that maybe no one else here tries, but I feel secure in my integrity.

 

[Christina]

Also when she was talking to me about revealing ourselves to the wolves, part of her reasoning was so they wouldn't waste a Seer check on me for info she already knew.

I thought if I let them waste the check, they would be super pissed when I had to try and keep them from killing you.

 

[Zell 17]

I never gave up. I took a massive risk and appealed to hearts and minds and also the hope that people would want to see something cool happen. It failed.

It was a play, obviously a bad play, and one that maybe no one else here tries, but I feel secure in my integrity.

I think you were rightfully worried that the wolves were going to win before you could win as either town or couple. So you took the best step you could: revive someone with a bullet and even the scales.

Obviously it was an overcorrection but the thought process makes sense.

 

[TD]

I don’t get the wolves being bitter, because Vash turned against the town FIRST. I literally died finding out Christina was a wolf, imagine the frustration learning the medium is intentionally sitting on that information to make sure your (and his) team loses.

But Vash was Cupid'd to Christina.
If you checked any other of the wolves, Vash likely goes with it and reviving is suddenly a lot safer.

That's why. Christina only revealed she was Cupid'd to Vash when we were ready to kill him for what you found out.

 

[Ants!]

But Vash was Cupid'd to Christina.
If you checked any other of the wolves, Vash likely goes with it and reviving is suddenly a lot safer.

That's why. Christina only revealed she was Cupid'd to Vash when we were ready to kill him for what you found out.

Point remains, I have more reason than the wolves to be bitter. Yet I’m not.

 

[Christina]

But Vash was Cupid'd to Christina.
If you checked any other of the wolves, Vash likely goes with it and reviving is suddenly a lot safer.

That's why. Christina only revealed she was Cupid'd to Vash when we were ready to kill him for what you found out.

I also should have lied and said I didn't tell Vash the wolves, but I hate out right lying. I can deal with letting people just believe a lie on their own but not straight up lying to somebody.

 

[Christina]

Point remains, I have more reason than the wolves to be bitter. Yet I’m not.

#sexworkisrealwork

 

[TD]

Also our plan was to shadow Vash if Ants died that night.

This was before Christina came forward too.

Should've just done it and hoped for the best but alas.

Christina saved herself and Vash that night.

 

[Ants!]

#sexworkisrealwork

True, and this one should come with hazard pay.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Point remains, I have more reason than the wolves to be bitter. Yet I’m not.

Plus you won

 

[TD]

Point remains, I have more reason than the wolves to be bitter. Yet I’m not.

And I'm bitter that I was exposed because you visited Christina and I'm the one who proposed giving Kelly to Vash.

 

[TD]

The whole thing has been "the wolves benefited so much from the Cupid alliance", but if those two cupids are members of the town they aren't finding the RK.

I'd argue the Cupids benefited more than the wolves in hindsight.

Like Zell said, the wolves picked up on every single role claim hint that the town had. Plus they knew all our wolf seer reads.

Future notice for anyone: just go after the roles that could hurt you the most and don't worry if someone had been Cupid'd.

 

[Christina]

The whole thing has been "the wolves benefited so much from the Cupid alliance", but if those two cupids are members of the town they aren't finding the RK.

I'd argue the Cupids benefited more than the wolves in hindsight.

Like Zell said, the wolves picked up on every single role claim hint that the town had. Plus they knew all our wolf seer reads.

Future notice for anyone: just go after the roles that could hurt you the most and don't worry if someone had been Cupid'd.

Also dont trust TD.

 

[TD]

Also dont trust TD.

To be fair - I'm not trusted in any game I play.

 

[Zell 17]

Also our plan was to shadow Vash if Ants died that night.

This was before Christina came forward too.

Should've just done it and hoped for the best but alas.

Christina saved herself and Vash that night.

The is part of the reason I wanted a game with a FIXED cupid before transitioning to Instigator or where Cupid can be random. The Cupid games are just different and you gotta see what kind of weird shit can happen.

Wait until you get a game where the gunner starts "accidentally" blasting villagers or a confirmed Aura seer starts calling villagers evil.