Zell Wolf Discussion Thread Game 4

[Cole]

My biggest gripe is too many seer roles overall

the seers won't matter with fool+shaman.

 

[shortkut]

When I was talking about Cole being one of the best players, I meant it as one of the most dangerous. He can make connections most people won’t and is an amazing strategizer

 

[Zell 17]

Listen the targeting you got in game 3 was bullshit and it was fixed.

This game you claimed you had a super important role “I can kill you at night”. But you didn’t ask anyone to protect you when they could. If you just claim gunner you probably survive. Even if you just ASK to be jailed, you probably survive whether you are or not because the wolves don’t want to risk having an attack blocked. Just in this game the jailer blocked an attack against Tommy Boy (he got potioned) because he asked to be jailed for protection.

 

[Cole]

dude.

it wasn't just one game I was multi targeted, first of all.

second of all, you are saying things about this game as if it were on your app, it isn't. do you really think it matters to anyone else in the game what I claim my role is, when I ask them to protect me? it doesn't. they either are or they aren't. I went with a silly plan in this game that resulted in me making 2 final guesses, I was wrong on one and right on the other.

this is not a shot at Tommy.

but he is not me in these games. a role claim and plea to be protected might work just fine on your app, it's going yo work differently here based on who is saying it. no one believes anything I say in these games (and rightfully so).

I'm not sure what games you've been watching. did you catch the game you were in that I was mentioned more than half the players? and I wasn't playing?

is that as a result of your balance too?

 

[Zell 17]

you're being ridiculous to protect your game balance for some reason. how many times have I been targeted by a number greater than 4 players on a night 0? you're not discrediting anything. your balance is NOT why I've lived, and it's not why I've died.

One game. And canaguy got targeted the same amount. And it was bullshit and hopefully fixed.

I don’t think targeting was an issue this game. Sometimes people just die early. Youll see when the night actions come out that I think the game was pretty fairly played. Keep in mind too that the wolves this game checked 3 people before they checked you, and several villagers had declared themself. Really the only roles they didn’t have a lock on when you were checked were you, Vash, and Tubby because everyone else announced themself or had been checked already.

 

[Zell 17]

of course it matters what you claim. If you claim gunner and ask for protection you likely get it because it’s a role you can’t fake (the real gunner would instantly shoot you if you lie). And more importantly, just ASKING for protection because you are a proven villager (which claiming gunner makes you) is probably enough to dissuade anyone from attacking you in the first place.

 

[Cole]

alright man.

I'm bored with this.

defend your balance. don't listen to criticism. do your thing. pretend it's your balance alone that decides who lives and dies. no one playing actually matters. just say "I'm seer, protect me tonight and its game over." right?

 

[Local Hero]

 

[Ants!]

Some of those targets on you were from protector roles too, and some of them were just seer or other info-gathering roles. And you normally make it pretty far despite being targeted. Sometimes the town even hangs on your words and follows your leadership like a lost puppy.

 

[Zell 17]

alright man.

I'm bored with this.

defend your balance. don't listen to criticism. do your thing. pretend it's your balance alone that decides who lives and dies. no one playing actually matters. just say "I'm seer, protect me tonight and its game over." right?

Of course I’m listening to criticism which is why I’ve made changes to every iteration.

But I don’t feel the need to adjust anything after this one particular game because:

A) the town is objectively losing despite the RK having actively worked in their favor
and
B) I don’t feel bad about you dying when you took zero steps to try and prevent it from happening

 

[shortkut]

I want a non-RNG organized game

 

[Local Hero]

Thank you Mr Zell for running the game.

Thank you Mr Vash for ruining the game.

Thank you Mr Cole for playing the game.

 

[shortkut]

Thank you Mr Zell for running the game.

Thank you Mr Vash for ruining the game.

Thank you Mr Cole for playing the game.

What if those verbs were switched

 

[Zell 17]

Thank you Mr Zell for running the game.

Thank you Mr Vash for ruining the game.

Thank you Mr Cole for playing the game.

Don’t be too hard on Vash. I’ve said it before this version puts a LOT of pressure on the people with important roles to make hard decisions. Cole couldn’t get a shot off. Vash also didn’t shoot when he probably should have. It’s hard when you know one mistake can ruin the game.

 

[Local Hero]

What if those verbs were switched

Just in case I'll switch the nouns too.

Thank you Mr Cole for playing the game.

Thank you Mr Zell for running the game.

Thank you Mr Vash for ruining the game.

 

[Local Hero]

Don’t be too hard on Vash. I’ve said it before this version puts a LOT of pressure on the people with important roles to make hard decisions. Cole couldn’t get a shot off. Vash also didn’t shoot when he probably should have. It’s hard when you know one mistake can ruin the game.

I hope he knows I'm not salty at him. Perhaps I'm leaning too hard into it.

It was mainly the shock of them all pretty much agreeing that Benzine was a wolf then coming back 5 hours later with Benzine just making jokes about ringing his bell and tubby getting lynched.

All good

But Eric I will never forgive.

 

[Tubby23]

I'm not sure how much more I could have claimed my role

 

[shortkut]

Probably would have been easier to claim if you posted screenshots of Zell assigning you your role

 

[Ants!]

Don’t be too hard on Vash. I’ve said it before this version puts a LOT of pressure on the people with important roles to make hard decisions. Cole couldn’t get a shot off. Vash also didn’t shoot when he probably should have. It’s hard when you know one mistake can ruin the game.

Maybe too much pressure is the problem. It’s just a game, it’s not “ruined” just because someone choses wrong.

 

[Tubby23]

@Zell 17 will you clear up the activated confusion for the town? Post game

 

[Tubby23]

Maybe too much pressure is the problem. It’s just a game, it’s not “ruined” just because someone choses wrong.

This exactly. It's just a game on an internet forum

That said vote Vash

 

[Ants!]

Will there be another wolf game after this?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Will there be another wolf game after this?

Vash wants to run a Mafia game.

 

[Zell 17]

@Zell 17 will you clear up the activated confusion for the town? Post game

Yeah I’ll post the screenshots of our PMs I guess. Suppose I can do it now.

 

[Zell 17]

So it’s a little hard to follow which DMs correspond to which nights but using the time stamps I’ve got your first message occurring after I first opened the thread for night 1. The message I sent on Wednesday at 9:21 is in the middle of night 2 because I hadn’t gotten any actions from Tubby yet.

And now here I think is where it got confusing. He leaves the trap on Kelly. Then, during the day phase, he tried to move it. When I came back during the night phase to see where the trap was I didn’t notice that his last message had been sent during the day phase, I thought he sent all of them during night 2. So I actually let him have an activated trap on Vash for night 3.

Tubby’s official log looks like:

Night 1: Place trap on Smacktard
Night 2: Move trap to Vash
Night 3: Trap activated

when I should have disallowed the move to Vash. What this means is I’ll probably have to be stricter about any messages sent during the day and just delete them or PM everyone when the night starts in order to more clearly break up the message history.

 

[Zell 17]

You guys may notice too that I “like” the action that you’ll be taking, which in this case is the “trap moved to Vash”.

 

[Zell 17]

From a town strategy perspective, I think they misplayed it a bit. They are rightfully concerned about the alchemist, but they can finish off the wolves by lynching Kelly and jailkilling benzine. And if anything ever happens to Vash, they know Tubby is the alchemist.

The only problem is if Benzine is the wolf avenger and takes out Vash with his tag. Then the village has to decide which Beast Hunter they think is most suspicious, but they at least get two attempts at it.

 

[Zell 17]

And of course if all BH claims just put their trap on the jailer once it’s apparent they are the jailer the game is unloseable.

 

[Tubby23]

This makes everything make so much more sense, thanks for clearing it up for me. I genuinely thought I was going crazy

 

[Zell 17]

Yea for all the advice I give people playing in this thread just keep in mind I’ve screwed something up in 3 games so far

 

[Tubby23]

Get Vash in here so I can vote for him haha

 

[Ants!]

This is interesting. Of the four remaining townies, three of them are the ones with random roles. The wolves did really well this time, they killed off the guaranteed roles, leaving the last wolf plenty of room to hide. I hope the wolves win, they really deserve it (likewise, the town deserves to lose because holy shit).

 

[shortkut]

@Zell 17 why does everyone, including kat, act like receiving a potion is an automatic death sentence? It’s already been demonstrated that you don’t know the color of the potion you receive and if you get a red potion you do not die that day? With the knowledge they currently have, FQ could still be the alchemist and gave Kelly a red potion which is why he didn’t die before

 

[VashTheStampede]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

 

[shortkut]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

I for one am always happy seeing you post

 

[Local Hero]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

@VashTheStampede nothing but love

 

[Zell 17]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

It’s impossible for one person’s mistakes to cause a village to lose. That’s part of the reason it’s so slanted towards the town, it takes several people to have them lose. Jawneh got killed without providing any info. The seers checked the same people every night. Cole died without shooting any bullets. FQ did the town no favors by trapping herself, a player that will never be attacked by evils because she’s the most likely to be lynched. A priest suicided again. Don’t kill yourself here.

 

[VashTheStampede]

So it’s a little hard to follow which DMs correspond to which nights but using the time stamps I’ve got your first message occurring after I first opened the thread for night 1. The message I sent on Wednesday at 9:21 is in the middle of night 2 because I hadn’t gotten any actions from Tubby yet.

And now here I think is where it got confusing. He leaves the trap on Kelly. Then, during the day phase, he tried to move it. When I came back during the night phase to see where the trap was I didn’t notice that his last message had been sent during the day phase, I thought he sent all of them during night 2. So I actually let him have an activated trap on Vash for night 3.

Tubby’s official log looks like:

Night 1: Place trap on Smacktard
Night 2: Move trap to Vash
Night 3: Trap activated

when I should have disallowed the move to Vash. What this means is I’ll probably have to be stricter about any messages sent during the day and just delete them or PM everyone when the night starts in order to more clearly break up the message history.

(Ahead: caps are for emphasis, not yelling)

This makes me feel a bit better because the ONLY reason I thought Tubby was guilty was because of the timeline not making sense.

I asked MULTIPLE TIMES if the timeline I set out was accurate and MULTIPLE TIMES he said it was when it could not be. By his timeline he made more night actions than there were nights to make those actions. I asked him to revisit the DMs to make sure.

This is what happens when I try to logic everything out without a Cole or a TD or a Warp to rely on to do that for me. Normally I just literally go on vibes and suspicion and honestly if I would have just done that, things would have gone much better as all my reads were solid. I knew kut was suspect. I knew Alu was suspect. I DAMN SURE knew Raposa was suspect. Just kept talking myself out of them due to the "logic" shit.

I felt really shitty last night after how things went down. I know I let my teammates down. To see people saying I "ruined" the game feels even worse. I am very sorry if my stupid bullshit negatively impacted people's enjoyment of the game. I know I can get overbearing and a bit extra. If I'm in future games I will try to tone things down tremendously.

 

[Ants!]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

You played better than I did!

 

[shortkut]

(Ahead: caps are for emphasis, not yelling)

This makes me feel a bit better because the ONLY reason I thought Tubby was guilty was because of the timeline not making sense.

I asked MULTIPLE TIMES if the timeline I set out was accurate and MULTIPLE TIMES he said it was when it could not be. By his timeline he made more night actions than there were nights to make those actions. I asked him to revisit the DMs to make sure.

This is what happens when I try to logic everything out without a Cole or a TD or a Warp to rely on to do that for me. Normally I just literally go on vibes and suspicion and honestly if I would have just done that, things would have gone much better as all my reads were solid. I knew kut was suspect. I knew Alu was suspect. I DAMN SURE knew Raposa was suspect. Just kept talking myself out of them due to the "logic" shit.

I felt really shitty last night after how things went down. I know I let my teammates down. To see people saying I "ruined" the game feels even worse. I am very sorry if my stupid bullshit negatively impacted people's enjoyment of the game. I know I can get overbearing and a bit extra. If I'm in future games I will try to tone things down tremendously.

You didn’t ruin anything. Cole found me out because I switched my vote to Kat… but I only did that because her explanation for how she isn’t wolf made no sense, like tubby’s explanation to you. Shit happens. I always enjoy your shitposting and even if I was a townie I wouldn’t be upset with you second, third, or even fourth guess yourself. It’s a game and I don’t care if we win or lose. The way you post and think out loud is very enjoyable to me and I would sign up for you to play the way you have 100% of the time

 

[shortkut]

You played better than I did!

My only goal was to kill you first thing, and even with everything being blinded, I still succeeded. Where’s my badge?

 

[Tubby23]

Welp

Just know that I already felt like shit before coming in here.

Peace out guys.

Don't feel like shit, only love here.

I will vote you first day next game though lol just for the carthasis

 

[shortkut]

Is anyone else concerned that wolf is both bringing activity but also going to be what kills the site by driving people away?

 

[VashTheStampede]

Is anyone else concerned that wolf is both bringing activity but also going to be what kills the site by driving people away?

I see what you mean but for me my favorite thing is the Marvel Snap thread

 

[shortkut]

 

[Zell 17]

(Ahead: caps are for emphasis, not yelling)

This makes me feel a bit better because the ONLY reason I thought Tubby was guilty was because of the timeline not making sense.

I asked MULTIPLE TIMES if the timeline I set out was accurate and MULTIPLE TIMES he said it was when it could not be. By his timeline he made more night actions than there were nights to make those actions. I asked him to revisit the DMs to make sure.

This is what happens when I try to logic everything out without a Cole or a TD or a Warp to rely on to do that for me. Normally I just literally go on vibes and suspicion and honestly if I would have just done that, things would have gone much better as all my reads were solid. I knew kut was suspect. I knew Alu was suspect. I DAMN SURE knew Raposa was suspect. Just kept talking myself out of them due to the "logic" shit.

I felt really shitty last night after how things went down. I know I let my teammates down. To see people saying I "ruined" the game feels even worse. I am very sorry if my stupid bullshit negatively impacted people's enjoyment of the game. I know I can get overbearing and a bit extra. If I'm in future games I will try to tone things down tremendously.

Everyone gets a vote and nobody is responsible for any vote they didn’t cast.

 

[shortkut]

I see what you mean but for me my favorite thing is the Marvel Snap thread

That’s a damn good thread. I’m glad I split it out of wherever it was before

 

[Tubby23]

(Ahead: caps are for emphasis, not yelling)

This makes me feel a bit better because the ONLY reason I thought Tubby was guilty was because of the timeline not making sense.

I asked MULTIPLE TIMES if the timeline I set out was accurate and MULTIPLE TIMES he said it was when it could not be. By his timeline he made more night actions than there were nights to make those actions. I asked him to revisit the DMs to make sure.

This is what happens when I try to logic everything out without a Cole or a TD or a Warp to rely on to do that for me. Normally I just literally go on vibes and suspicion and honestly if I would have just done that, things would have gone much better as all my reads were solid. I knew kut was suspect. I knew Alu was suspect. I DAMN SURE knew Raposa was suspect. Just kept talking myself out of them due to the "logic" shit.

I felt really shitty last night after how things went down. I know I let my teammates down. To see people saying I "ruined" the game feels even worse. I am very sorry if my stupid bullshit negatively impacted people's enjoyment of the game. I know I can get overbearing and a bit extra. If I'm in future games I will try to tone things down tremendously.

Also my explanation made no sense but you can see how from the DMs I got myself confused (especially trying to think and explain it at 3am haha). You aren't to blame for thinking I was lying

 

[Tubby23]

Is anyone else concerned that wolf is both bringing activity but also going to be what kills the site by driving people away?

I do worry that it may drive people away or people get over invested and then need a break.

Me I just love it

 

[VashTheStampede]

We don't need Discussion Threads we need Aftercare Threads