Zell Wolf Discussion Thread Game 4

[Ants!]

Ants resurrects everyone except Fools Requiem and Coleman

 

[Cole]

these games fall apart without me

 

[Local Hero]

We should all play anonymously so kut and Cole stop getting killed day 1

 

[Cole]

We should all play anonymously so kut and Cole stop getting killed day 1

everyone would know it's me. and after what I pulled a few games ago, I don't see myself living past second day phase for a while

 

[Cole]

(and that's optimistic)

 

[Local Hero]

 

[Jawneh]

If I was revived, I'd just go visit a wolf again.

 

[Local Hero]

 

[Cole]

If I was revived, I'd just go visit a wolf again.

If I was revived I'd laugh at everyone and then just

Cole Shoots Cole

 

[Cole]

and even if Zell doesnt honor it, I'm not posting anymore.

 

[shortkut]

and even if Zell doesnt honor it, I'm not posting anymore.

That would make me sad

 

[Cole]

after THIS game? no I'd definitely execute myself

 

[Ants!]

That would make me sad

I clicked sad react before you said that. Poser.

 

[Tubby23]

Next game Vash is mine

 

[Cole]

@Zell 17 revive me tomorrow by act of God then let me kill myself in the thread straight sway

 

[Tubby23]

Also @Zell 17 can you please confirm for the people that I referred to it as Night 0 and you confirmed

 

[Cole]

Also @Zell 17 can you please confirm for the people that I referred to it as Night 0 and you confirmed

I had this conversation with Vash too.

 

[Tubby23]

Yep Night 0 prior to the game for night actions, then Day 1.

Can't believe they believed anything out of Kelly mouth once he was a confirmed Alpha but oh well I suppose

 

[shortkut]

We need a very vanilla game of wolf without all these extra roles. Only way to die is via wolf or lynch.

That will cleanse the palate and prevent the early death or investigation of people

 

[Cole]

We need a very vanilla game of wolf without all these extra roles. Only way to die is via wolf or lynch.

That will cleanse the palate and prevent the early death or investigation of people

the town will get roasted.

 

[shortkut]

the town will get roasted.

The other option is @Zell 17 doesnt use RNG for assigning roles and ransoms. He decides how many seers, non-lynch/standard wolf kill methods there will be, and who will be each role.

 

[Local Hero]

Or the extra meta wolf game were there are no wolves and the town just keeps lynching innocent townies until there's only one left

 

[Ants!]

the town will get roasted.

This sounds like a nice change-up from the wolves getting steamrolled.

 

[shortkut]

Or the extra meta wolf game were there are no wolves and the town just keeps lynching innocent townies until there's only one left

Or one game where everyone is a gunner except for 1 wolf and 1 fool

 

[shortkut]

Or one game where everyone is a gunner except for 1 wolf and 1 fool

But obviously we don’t know that in advance

 

[Tubby23]

16 Priests threatening to splash each other

 

[Zell 17]

This sounds like a nice change-up from the wolves getting steamrolled.

I know it feels like it, but they were in great shape last game until the arsonist wiped them out and they are in good shape this game.

 

[Cole]

This sounds like a nice change-up from the wolves getting steamrolled.

it will not feel that way

 

[shortkut]

it will not feel that way

1 seer, 1doctor, everyone else vanilla. Wolves are standard werewolves

 

[Local Hero]

1 seer, 1doctor, everyone else vanilla. Wolves are standard werewolves

Be the change you want to see

 

[Zell 17]

1 seer, 1doctor, everyone else vanilla. Wolves are standard werewolves

Sounds boring. I don’t know why everyone wants to play a game where nobody has to lie, lying is the good part! And the more outrageous the better.

 

[Jawneh]

Could throw in a Fool for good measure.

 

[shortkut]

Sounds boring. I don’t know why everyone wants to play a game where nobody has to lie, lying is the good part! And the more outrageous the better.

But we know Cole is one of the, if not the strongest players so he will always be targets multiple times by multiple players in the first few days. It makes it hard for him to do anything because people will see(r) through it or kill him immediately

 

[Zell 17]

1 seer, 1doctor, everyone else vanilla. Wolves are standard werewolves

Day 1 seer claims seer and starts announcing their checks. Wolves have no way to win, unless they find the doctor night 1. Every single day that goes by more townies are confirmed or wolves lynched.

 

[Tubby23]

Sounds boring. I don’t know why everyone wants to play a game where nobody has to lie, lying is the good part! And the more outrageous the better.

Do you have any aversion to me posting a more detailed list of our messages in this thread to explain the confusion of my list?

 

[shortkut]

Day 1 seer claims seer and starts announcing their checks. Wolves have no way to win, unless they find the doctor night 1. Every single day that goes by more townies are confirmed or wolves lynched.

Kill seer that night after they announce it

 

[Ants!]

I have fun playing regardless

 

[Zell 17]

But we know Cole is one of the, if not the strongest players so he will always be targets multiple times by multiple players in the first few days. It makes it hard for him to do anything because people will see(r) through it or kill him immediately

Cole hasn’t been targeted because he’s so super strong (I’m not convinced he’s the best player). But he has had great roles (Gunner 2x and witch) that are the top role targets for wolves to kill. In this game he ANNOUNCED the ability to kill, when any competent wolf team will be most concerned about taking out bullets. Of course he will be checked and killed.

If anything of the wolves always target him night 2 it’s a mistake, because it’s a free protect for villagers.

 

[Zell 17]

Kill seer that night after they announce it

The doc will protect them if they have any brains at all

 

[Zell 17]

Also I’ll add that despite having a super valuable role (Gunner and Witch) Cole survived to the end. This is the first game he’s been killed as a villager, most have more than that.

 

[shortkut]

The doc will protect them if they have any brains at all

You’ve seen how we play this game

 

[Cole]

Sounds boring. I don’t know why everyone wants to play a game where nobody has to lie, lying is the good part! And the more outrageous the better.

you have to lie in every game of wolf. That's literally the whole point. Your roles don't add more lying, it just adds more confusing lies.

But we know Cole is one of the, if not the strongest players so he will always be targets multiple times by multiple players in the first few days. It makes it hard for him to do anything because people will see(r) through it or kill him immediately

Or both.

Day 1 seer claims seer and starts announcing their checks. Wolves have no way to win, unless they find the doctor night 1. Every single day that goes by more townies are confirmed or wolves lynched.

The doc will protect them if they have any brains at all

This is not that simple and you know it. In fact its... less simple. Day 1 I claim Seer but I found nothing night 0. No one believes it. Someone gets lynched, I don't get protected, I die that night. For someone keeps harping about a game of deception, you ignore that deception works both ways.

Cole hasn’t been targeted because he’s so super strong (I’m not convinced he’s the best player). But he has had great roles (Gunner 2x and witch) that are the top role targets for wolves to kill. In this game he ANNOUNCED the ability to kill, when any competent wolf team will be most concerned about taking out bullets. Of course he will be checked and killed.

If anything of the wolves always target him night 2 it’s a mistake, because it’s a free protect for villagers.

I don't think I'm the best player either, but if you're chalking up to what I did with those roles as to why people (big quotes) "fear" me, you're not paying attention. It was the combo of shortkut and I that made it happen in your first game, and while our roles were useful in carrying it out, it was us that sussed out who was who fast enough to effectively end the game in two days.

And need I remind you, and I quote "the Gunners one job is to kill the fool", which I did, and I also killed the serial killer.

I am not the best player, but I am a frequent target and it's not because of the roles you gave me. Plenty of others have been witch or gunner, and none of them got anything like the first/2nd night actions that I get. Your game can be very fun, Zell, but you keep dismissing the problems people have with it by saying shit like "well it worked in the 10,000 games on the mobile app!" It's not the same as here. There is no reasonable way I survive past two day phases in your style of game. If I don't get lynched or executed day 1, I'll die night 1. And if somehow I survive night 1? "hes a wolf, lynch him."

This is the SAME EXACT pattern of events that happened at Wolf/Mafia in the old GW. I had 2 or 3 good games in a row, and then i became public enemy number one in every subsequent game.

I get what you're trying to do with the balance of these games, I truly do, I see it. And I see how in a perfect world of strangers it would work marvelously. But this isn't a perfect world of strangers. And it doesn't work the same. I even told you how to fix it. Guaranteed Fool, guaranteed Wolf Shaman. You can RNG every other role in the game if you wanted to, as long as those two are there, there is enough doubt and suspicion to keep the game balanced.

Short of that, I'm truly not sure this system works here, at least not for guys like me, shortkut, Alu (usually) and other frequent early game targets. We can laugh at Ants always dying early because of a meme shortkut started where he votes for him day 1, but it probably kinda sucks for him to keep getting in games and then being out before it really gets going.

I skimmed this game after I died. It *is* becoming less fun, dead or alive just because I know I'm an immediate target.

 

[Cole]

Also I’ll add that despite having a super valuable role (Gunner and Witch) Cole survived to the end. This is the first game he’s been killed as a villager, most have more than that.

you keep saying which roles are valuable.

how many accurate gunner shots have we had so far? just for fun, don't count both of mine.

one of those games I survived to the end was the first, and people didn't know what I played like yet. I didn't die in that game BY DESIGN, we planned a ring of protection.

the second of those games we had the wolves figured out day 2, and the only reason I didn't die before that is (frankly) incompetence by the wolves to not berserk me.

the wolf game I was dead before I made one post. 2 seer checks, two targets by killers. I had no chance.

this game I died the first chance someone got to target the trigger at me.

please don't pretend it's your game balance that let me live or die.

 

[Zell 17]

you have to lie in every game of wolf. That's literally the whole point. Your roles don't add more lying, it just adds more confusing lies.

Or both.


This is not that simple and you know it. In fact its... less simple. Day 1 I claim Seer but I found nothing night 0. No one believes it. Someone gets lynched, I don't get protected, I die that night. For someone keeps harping about a game of deception, you ignore that deception works both ways.


I don't think I'm the best player either, but if you're chalking up to what I did with those roles as to why people (big quotes) "fear" me, you're not paying attention. It was the combo of shortkut and I that made it happen in your first game, and while our roles were useful in carrying it out, it was us that sussed out who was who fast enough to effectively end the game in two days.

And need I remind you, and I quote "the Gunners one job is to kill the fool", which I did, and I also killed the serial killer.

I am not the best player, but I am a frequent target and it's not because of the roles you gave me. Plenty of others have been witch or gunner, and none of them got anything like the first/2nd night actions that I get. Your game can be very fun, Zell, but you keep dismissing the problems people have with it by saying shit like "well it worked in the 10,000 games on the mobile app!" It's not the same as here. There is no reasonable way I survive past two day phases in your style of game. If I don't get lynched or executed day 1, I'll die night 1. And if somehow I survive night 1? "hes a wolf, lynch him."

This is the SAME EXACT pattern of events that happened at Wolf/Mafia in the old GW. I had 2 or 3 good games in a row, and then i became public enemy number one in every subsequent game.

I get what you're trying to do with the balance of these games, I truly do, I see it. And I see how in a perfect world of strangers it would work marvelously. But this isn't a perfect world of strangers. And it doesn't work the same. I even told you how to fix it. Guaranteed Fool, guaranteed Wolf Shaman. You can RNG every other role in the game if you wanted to, as long as those two are there, there is enough doubt and suspicion to keep the game balanced.

Short of that, I'm truly not sure this system works here, at least not for guys like me, shortkut, Alu (usually) and other frequent early game targets. We can laugh at Ants always dying early because of a meme shortkut started where he votes for him day 1, but it probably kinda sucks for him to keep getting in games and then being out before it really gets going.

I skimmed this game after I died. It *is* becoming less fun, dead or alive just because I know I'm an immediate target.

“There’s no reasonable way you survive past day 2” bruh you’ve literally played 4 games and survived past day 2 in two of them.

“You can’t handle all of the night actions you get” out of 11 total night actions performed by the village in this game on night 2 you were targeted by ONE of them.

 

[Zell 17]

you keep saying which roles are valuable.

how many accurate gunner shots have we had so far? just for fun, don't count both of mine.

one of those games I survived to the end was the first, and people didn't know what I played like yet. I didn't die in that game BY DESIGN, we planned a ring of protection.

the second of those games we had the wolves figured out day 2, and the only reason I didn't die before that is (frankly) incompetence by the wolves to not berserk me.

the wolf game I was dead before I made one post. 2 seer checks, two targets by killers. I had no chance.

this game I died the first chance someone got to target the trigger at me.

please don't pretend it's your game balance that let me live or die.

Interestingly enough 100% of gunner shots so far have been accurate, whether we count your shots or not.

 

[Cole]

“There’s no reasonable way you survive past day 2” bruh you’ve literally played 4 games and survived past day 2 in two of them.

“You can’t handle all of the night actions you get” out of 11 total night actions performed by the village in this game on night 2 you were targeted by ONE of them.

two of those were the FIRST GAMES, and if I recall correctly, I was targeted night 0 of game 2 by 5 people? or was it 6.

I survived because of the plans we made. from that point forward, how have things gone man?

you're very confident in a 50/50 sample for a mathamatician.

 

[Cole]

Interestingly enough 100% of gunner shots so far have been accurate, whether we count your shots or not.

and how many bullets have there been?

 

[Zell 17]

two of those were the FIRST GAMES, and if I recall correctly, I was targeted night 0 of game 2 by 5 people? or was it 6.

I survived because of the plans we made. from that point forward, how have things gone man?

you're very confident in a 50/50 sample for a mathamatician.

I’m not making assertions based on a small sample, I’m discrediting assertions.

 

[Cole]

I’m not making assertions based on a small sample, I’m discrediting assertions.

no you aren't.

"Coles not the best player, he's just had roles that make him a target."

you're being ridiculous to protect your game balance for some reason. how many times have I been targeted by a number greater than 4 players on a night 0? you're not discrediting anything. your balance is NOT why I've lived, and it's not why I've died.

 

[shortkut]

My biggest gripe is too many seer roles overall