VTS Mafia The Morgue (Year 2)

[TD]

Your loss of faith is concerning my child, please say 10 hail Tubbys and repent

Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.

Also. It's absolutely hilarious that you misread/misunderstood the librarian role too.

 

[Tubby23]

Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.
Hail tubby.

Also. It's absolutely hilarious that you misread/misunderstood the librarian role too.

My child you are forgiven, please join my warm embrace. Before going forth and telling all of the mercy you felt at my hands.

For someone who reads a lot of books and spends his whole day working with numbers I really shouldn't have!

 

[A Punched Face]

Here's a condensed version of the nonsense I was reading into too:

** are people of interest

Alu:**
Mailbox and numbers
69
Wine and Dine
Shower curtain
Cacti
Steak / medium rare

I'm only on the first page of reading this but this post is hilarious to me. None of these things are at all related but all of them got me on TDs person of interest list lmao. I had 6 separate tells

 

[TD]

I'm only on the first page of reading this but this post is hilarious to me. None of these things are at all related but all of them got me on TDs person of interest list lmao. I had 6 separate tells

lmao I had the worst time trying to read you this game, you'll see...

 

[Tubby23]

If in doubt suspect @Activities

 

[TD]

I'm pretty sure at one point I was just trying to find a reason he was guilty.

 

[Tubby23]

I can't believe the same idiot that was the first to kill himself as a Priest was the first solo killer to win a game....

 

[canadaguy]

Holy crap @Tubby23

Most of my convos with vash are just pestering him for rule clarifications

 

[Tubby23]

Holy crap @Tubby23

Most of my convos with vash are just pestering him for rule clarifications

I did plenty of that too!

 

[Jon]

Holy crap @Tubby23

Most of my convos with vash are just pestering him for rule clarifications

Glad I'm not the only one. I was hounding the man.

 

[shortkut]

Holy crap @Tubby23

Most of my convos with vash are just pestering him for rule clarifications

I do that with @Zell 17 all the time, trying to find a loophole

 

[Jon]

I do that with @Zell 17 all the time, trying to find a loophole

Am I the only one that wants to play by the intended rules?

 

[shortkut]

Am I the only one that wants to play by the intended rules?

Sometimes the rules are unclear, and we are clever

 

[Jon]

Sometimes the rules are unclear, and we are clever

 

[Smacktard]

Okay big post incoming. I'm on page 32 now.

Also, when I was saying "if someone is the real bailiff, now would be a good time to dispute shortkut's claim"

I know people said, well you can't just say "no I'm the bailiff", but all I was looking for was "yeah, shortkut isn't the bailiff."

I thought about encouraging this too, but ultimately decided against. It's a 50/50 gamble, and the first person that makes the claim is usually the least likely to be lying. I mean who would they believe -- animal tell Zell, Fool who's already claimed a different role, or me, who needed to avoid a trial at that point?

Jimmy Zoos had an extremely hard to find animal yesterday, and it was a quote from a fellow mobster.

I suppose there's a chance Tubby may have recognized it...

Well..
Did you, @Tubby23 ?

One of my biggest reasons against it is the notion that the Librarian exists to help limit shitposts and let less active players pay attention.

If everyone is expected to read every word of quoted posts too?

That's brutal.

I said it earlier and I'll say it again. The mafia don't need extra help to hide beyond their tell.

The problem is that once most of the tells are known, they're really easy to counter or identify. The animal one people were willfully ignoring the most likely explanation. The quote one, once it is out, becomes quite easy to counter. Same with the reacts. My tell was easy to counter too once it was known about.

The laughing one could've been disguised much better. Tubby spotted it right away. It could've been lol, lmao, etc. but it was "haha" at the end of every post, like five posts in a row.

The thing about tells is that they're FREE hints. It's like having 1/2 of a seer giving you clues the whole game. But then when your tell is actually OUTED, it's only like... 3/4 of a seer.

The punctuation one was too blatant though, even if it wasn't used on mafiosos.

Killing yourself by using punctuation sounds like some really intense anime plot.

Favorite post in the thread.

I mean, TD and I just knew Kelly was sus from the get go lol. The tell was just there to dishearthen us.

You two always think I'm sus though. TD said I was sus when I was the koala.

I wonder if Kelly was on board with Zell's move before he went and did it.

Cause it might've cost the mafia. lol

In before Kelly calls Zell and Tubby mafia.

I was absolutely not on board lol. I woke up like "what the fuck just happened". But in the end it was the right move. It was clear I wasn't bomber, so the town wouldn't vote for me, and all other good roles were known. There was no way to get the town to vote for an unknown baddie when they definitely wouldn't want to give the game to the mafia.

The thing about playing the team bads is that you have to manipulate a lot of people, which makes them feel dumb when they realize they'd been manipulated, which makes them resentful, and thus want to do anything BUT make sure you win. It kind of sucks, having been on the receiving end of this a couple of times when you're being punished for playing the way you're supposed.

Just a reminder, everyone.

Feel free to follow along with the Game Thread and react to posts as you wish. But please don't do so in such a way as to lead the living players towards any hints you find.

Thank you.

This tbh really annoyed me and Zell. Alu asking the dedthred to vote who he should vote for and the dedthred playing along was shitty. I don't think the game would've turned out another way by this point, but it still sucked ass. There was also a group message at one point from someone in the dedthred that blatantly pointed out Zell and Tubby's roles in the last day. Most of the people here, including Alu, are+were aware of it.

Again, I don't think it swayed the game, but... shitsux.

Let's not remind Tommy what happened when I did the thanos snap...

Probably my favorite play ever tbh. Quite the showman. I was screeching when you did that.

The fact the town can still win after not catching any bad guys and facing an absolutely stacked deck blows my mind.

Was the deck stacked with bad decisions from the town?

Hey now, I had nothing to do with rigging the jury!

No, but the role existed, and has the potential to do that. I was trying to make an in-universe appeal for a mafia win when there was no way the town could win. I don't know if anyone here would've appreciated the RP angle, but I had to at least try.

Would it have swayed anyone's votes at all?

Kelly is trying to manipulate Alu and CG into thinking they have no chance, which is not true

But it was true though, and I explained it at the time.

If canadaguy and Alu both stayed alive, Tubby and Zell voting for each other would be mutually-assured destruction, especially with one post each. I signalled that to Tubby: don't vote yet, because you only have one post, and if you use it against us, we both lose cause we're taking you down with us. None of the baddies wanted the town to win, so we wouldn't kill each other off. Does Tubby call our bluff and vote for Zell anyway? Does he realize he'd been outmaneuevered and go quietly? I don't think he'd want the town to win, either. And what I was trying to say, is that if Alu and canadaguy don't play along, we too would let Tubby win.

The only chance they had to win was to play along with our gambit of voting for themselves.

If they voted for Zell, Tubby would tag Zell and win. If they voted for Tubby, Zell would kill town and win while Tubby is in jail.

But then canadaguy died so the game was over for us at the point anyway.

I hope Alu figures out this isn't true lol. The Bomber only being able to target Zell tomorrow is the key for this mindset

That's exactly what I was promising them. Don't play along? The bomber wins the game. If you play along, you have a 50/50 shot of winning. Before cg went boom, again.

Wait... if the Don can only be killed by trial... can he suicide by not using his tell????

That's what I was hoping to do, as a final fuck you to the city Vash confirmed it would only reveal my tell. Weak. But I was also hoping that radical honesty would start to cause them to doubt whether Zell was mafia or not. I was hoping their annoyance at me would raise suspicions. Even Alu was asking at the last day why I was pushing them to kill Zell.

Well, I was right about him stopping his tell. Not for death, but outing him. And I'm not sure the "trust" that is supposed to build. Tubby HAS to vote to kill Kelly because he cannot kill the Don otherwise.

"Trust" explained above.

 

[TD]

The problem is that once most of the tells are known, they're really easy to counter or identify. The animal one people were willfully ignoring the most likely explanation. The quote one, once it is out, becomes quite easy to counter. Same with the reacts. My tell was easy to counter too once it was known about.

I think this one is still kind of hard to judge at this point. The one tell that was ever uncovered somehow didn't help ultimately (although it should have) and the only tell that was successfully identified predeath was Jon.

You two always think I'm sus though. TD said I was sus when I was the koala.

I don't remember having you sus in that game to be honest and this doesn't sound familiar.

The simple solution is to stop being a bad guy!

I was absolutely not on board lol. I woke up like "what the fuck just happened".

Hahaha thanks for this. I knew you were asleep and was dying to know your waking thoughts.

Alu asking the dedthred to vote who he should vote for and the dedthred playing along was shitty.

I initially voted the option for him to kill himself as a joke (he even acknowledged it) but even that felt kinda weird and I wished I didn't. I later cycled them before removing it altogether.

There was also a group message at one point from someone in the dedthred that blatantly pointed out Zell and Tubby's roles in the last day. Most of the people here, including Alu, are+were aware of it.

Probably my favorite play ever tbh. Quite the showman. I was screeching when you did that.

I'm happy that you enjoyed it - thanks for sharing this. Like you as the Corrupter, I wasn't going to just lie down.

 

[A Punched Face]

So I knew who everyone was at that point, or at least felt reasonably sure. I had already said I wanted the bomber to win because it was better play and had been saying since at least day 3 that I felt tubby was the bomber. I followed up with the "I maintain the right to not listen" post because I wasn't actually going to listen with what people voted for.

 

[shortkut]

This tbh really annoyed me and Zell. Alu asking the dedthred to vote who he should vote for and the dedthred playing along was shitty. I don't think the game would've turned out another way by this point, but it still sucked ass.

I don’t think he was being serious. He probably already knew who he was voting for. Hell, he even made himself an option to vote for. No one should have taken it seriously. He was shitposting to boost his post count.

. There was also a group message at one point from someone in the dedthred that blatantly pointed out Zell and Tubby's roles in the last day.

I thought we agreed not to kut in this game.

 

[Smacktard]

Town has, in my estimation, a 75% chance of winning if they just convict Kelly and prevent putting Zell on the stand (and put Tubby on).

Why? That would just be prolonging the town's death. Zell brings it down to 1v1v1 and then we were at the same situation we arrived at anyway. I suppose there could've been a draw but draws are lame.

I stand by what I've said before - Alu is a really strong player and you're probably not going to manipulate him to your narrative in this situation.

But the thing was, I wasn't manipulating him.

This is the problem with not being afraid to use manipulation in a game like this: even when you're being upfront and honest, no one trusts you. Here's how it could've played out, if cg remained alive, if Tubby missed his mark:

CG + Alu vote for Alu
Tubby sees he's going to be dead by morning and votes for Zell
Zell doesn't vote
CG and Alu don't budge
Alu arrested
Overnight
Zell kills Tubby (Mafia's only shot at winning)
Canadaguy vs Zell, 50/50 shot of winning

OR
CG + Alu vote for Alu
Tubby sees he's going to be dead by morning and votes for Zell
CG + Alu split votes between Zell and Tubby
Zell doesn't vote
Zell arrested
Overnight, Tubby kills citizen (unless he can kill jailed mafia)
Next day
1v1v1 with mafia in jail
50/50 Tubby votes to kill Zell and win
If not, town loses eventually anyway

OR
CG + Alu vote for Alu
Tubby won't vote for Zell because there's a possibility of MAD and he doesn't want to risk it since he can only post one time

OR
Cg+Alu vote for either Tubby or Zell, in which case town loses anyway

The ONLY way the town could win was the deal I offered them... again, before cg blew up. Than it was just Alu choosing the side that manipulated him the least

That's what I thought. Based on my observations, Alu knows the city actually has the best advantage right now and he's toying with Kelly to let him think the chance of a city win is low (it's really not). No reason to not convict right now to be honest.

City had literally no chance.

I would say the mafia's biggest mistake was leaving the bomber alive.

Absolutely. FR was the only one pushing so hard for the bomber to be killed FWIW. Zell argued as late as FR's death that the bomber and the mafia had to work together, but I didn't see it that way. I was really hoping Jon was bomber, and FR thought it was shortkut.

I have had TWO tells for all three days for Tubby that I "found", including his shushed day, and they were pretty credible too.

FWIW I think individuals make better decisions in this game than groups. It's kind of contrary to what you'd expect.

I find it hilarious that Kelly is drilling Alu about not trying to win by not following his idea when voting not guilty on Kelly would literally be not trying to win, which is what Kelly is trying to suggest.

Wild.

I was giving them the option on how they choose to lose because it was impossible for them to win.

The fact that he posted a data sheet was such a red flag too. Clearly the only reason he does that is trying to deflect off himself. A simple townie wouldn't have gone that far I'd have to think.

Zell: here is this evidence I created that exonerates me.
City: okay, that seems convincing.

I still have no idea how that worked. If I were not mafia, there's no way I'd believe that -- part of why I started calling him out.

 

[TD]

I can't tell you how satisfying it is to know that the dead thread and mafia were both basically like: What is the town doing??

 

[A Punched Face]

Also @Smacktard you were actually being extremely condescending with how you were talking on that last day to be honest. You were trying to convince my to believe anything other than the actions that were already complete (you killing kut and announcing it would happen meant tubby 100% tagged someone else) went the way they were.

I knew tubby had a successful tag and you straight up tried to convince me otherwise, which never would have worked. Quite literally the only way that could have been a victory would have been for Zell to change his mind, because it was the only action that hadn't happened yet. That's it. Nothing more. He wasn't going to, but it was the only thing that could have possibly been different simply because of the "it's not done yet" thing.

But I also knew that meant he was going to kill one of us regardless. I just wanted you both to know that by not killing the bomber you made a mistake in trying to win.

 

[Smacktard]

I don't remember having you sus in that game to be honest and this doesn't sound familiar.

Usually you call me sus because "Kelly hasn't posted yet", which is usually because I've been sleeping for 8 hours by the time you post that message. Same thing happened in the Aussie game IIRC

 

[TD]

Usually you call me sus because "Kelly hasn't posted yet", which is usually because I've been sleeping for 8 hours by the time you post that message. Same thing happened in the Aussie game IIRC

Ah I see where you're going with this.

I don't think you're actually sus for not posting by a certain time because I'm aware of the timezone thing.

The thing about me and the way I play - a lot of the times I just say something to see who engages, how they engage, and what kind of reactions I get to it.

Generally: unless I've posted one of my sus lists* it's entirely possible that I'm either fishing or do actually find you sus.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Also @Smacktard you were actually being extremely condescending with how you were talking on that last day to be honest. You were trying to convince my to believe anything other than the actions that were already complete (you killing kut and announcing it would happen meant tubby 100% tagged someone else) went the way they were.

I knew tubby had a successful tag and you straight up tried to convince me otherwise, which never would have worked. Quite literally the only way that could have been a victory would have been for Zell to change his mind, because it was the only action that hadn't happened yet. That's it. Nothing more. He wasn't going to, but it was the only thing that could have possibly been different simply because of the "it's not done yet" thing.

But I also knew that meant he was going to kill one of us regardless. I just wanted you both to know that by not killing the bomber you made a mistake in trying to win.

He knew exactly what he was doing re: being condescending. It was absolutely killing him to do it and he hated every second of it, but it was a gambit.

 

[Zell 17]

Also @Smacktard you were actually being extremely condescending with how you were talking on that last day to be honest. You were trying to convince my to believe anything other than the actions that were already complete (you killing kut and announcing it would happen meant tubby 100% tagged someone else) went the way they were.

I knew tubby had a successful tag and you straight up tried to convince me otherwise, which never would have worked. Quite literally the only way that could have been a victory would have been for Zell to change his mind, because it was the only action that hadn't happened yet. That's it. Nothing more. He wasn't going to, but it was the only thing that could have possibly been different simply because of the "it's not done yet" thing.

But I also knew that meant he was going to kill one of us regardless. I just wanted you both to know that by not killing the bomber you made a mistake in trying to win.

Killing the bomber was a guaranteed loss. There's no chance I am able to outclaim shortkut, Alu, or canadaguy (all of whom have PROVABLE roles) in that spot.

How did you know for sure that Tubby had tagged you or canadaguy? Legit curious.

 

[Smacktard]

Also @Smacktard you were actually being extremely condescending with how you were talking on that last day to be honest.

I didn't mean to be condescending. I was trying to be honest with you: it was the only shot the city had of winning. There was no other possibility.

Even if Tubby HAD had a successful tag, he wins the next day by blowing you and cg up.

You were trying to convince my to believe anything other than the actions that were already complete (you killing kut and announcing it would happen meant tubby 100% tagged someone else) went the way they were.

Tubby genuinely could've thought I was bluffing. It was in our interest to put tubby in that position that he couldn't make a kill, but we realized too late. In retrospect it seems obvious, but I would've bluffed about shortkut and then killed canadaguy, and then the gambit me and Zell tried may have paid off.

I knew tubby had a successful tag and you straight up tried to convince me otherwise, which never would have worked.

But in this case the town still loses regardless of whether he kills canadaguy that day or the next day.

 

[Zell 17]

Also that last night I left canadaguy alive because frankly I was looking forward to being hushed after spending all damn day shitposting. Same reason I extended the night to the full length.

 

[TD]

Also that last night I left canadaguy alive because frankly I was looking forward to being hushed after spending all damn day shitposting. Same reason I extended the night to the full length.

Shitpost life ain't easy but it sure as hell can be fun.

 

[Zell 17]

S is for Squab
T is for Tumbler
U is for Uakari
V is for Velvet
W is for Whelp
X is for Xenoceratops
Y is for Yoyo
Z is for Zoea

 

[VashTheStampede]

I didn't mean to be condescending. I was trying to be honest with you: it was the only shot the city had of winning. There was no other possibility.

Oh my bad, I must be mistaking which part of the day he was referring to.

 

[TD]

How did you know for sure that Tubby had tagged you or canadaguy? Legit curious.

Not to speak for Alu but I think it had to do with one of you (do not remember who) saying shortkut was going to die - so the bomber would know who to not target.

I assumed this was trying to signal the bomber to work together although maybe it wasn't.

 

[Christina]

Absolutely. FR was the only one pushing so hard for the bomber to be killed FWIW. Zell argued as late as FR's death that the bomber and the mafia had to work together, but I didn't see it that way. I was really hoping Jon was bomber, and FR thought it was shortkut.

I have had TWO tells for all three days for Tubby that I "found", including his shushed day, and they were pretty credible too.

FWIW I think individuals make better decisions in this game than groups. It's kind of contrary to what you'd expect.

I was giving them the option on how they choose to lose because it was impossible for them to win.

Zell: here is this evidence I created that exonerates me.
City: okay, that seems convincing.

I still have no idea how that worked. If I were not mafia, there's no way I'd believe that -- part of why I started calling him out.

The night you guys killed Tommy I was shocked. I looked at Vash and asked him, "do they not know who the bomber is?"

Also I too have no idea how Zell's crappy data worked. I would have lost my shit, if I had been playing and somebody did that. I cannot abide by bad data. The whole rest of that day would have been me just looking unhinged throwing eggs at Zell trying to figure out how to post speadsheets.

 

[Smacktard]

He knew exactly what he was doing re: being condescending. It was absolutely killing him to do it and he hated every second of it, but it was a gambit.

I didn't think I was being condescending. I knew I was being obnoxious, I knew I was being annoying, I knew I was trying to sell something that they, for whatever reason, were just not buying, but I didn't think I was being condescending. My proposal made perfect sense at the time, and I stand by that.

And in the end, you agreed with me and decided to go along with it, because you knew it to be true: it was the only shot you guys had.

 

[TD]

Can I also just say how happy I am that there (at least from my perspective) wasn't any OOC fighting and everyone seems to be happy for Tubby that he won?

 

[A Punched Face]

Not to speak for Alu but I think it had to do with one of you (do not remember who) saying shortkut was going to die - so the bomber would know who to not target.

I assumed this was trying to signal the bomber to work together although maybe it wasn't.

100% this. If you had signaled you were going to kill kut and then killed canadaguy it would have been more convincing.

And it was Kelly who signaled it (I even linked it in the thread when I brought it up).

Also I started to change my tune not because you were convincing me, but because I had a teammate that I actually wanted to get the opinion of. I knew what I wanted to do, I didn't want to railroad through without him chiming in.

 

[A Punched Face]

Can I also just say how happy I am that there (at least from my perspective) wasn't any OOC fighting and everyone seems to be happy for Tubby that he won?

He played very well and deserved it.

 

[TD]

Spoiler: Also I have a question that I've been too scared to ask...

What is PIMI?

 

[A Punched Face]

Killing the bomber was a guaranteed loss. There's no chance I am able to outclaim shortkut, Alu, or canadaguy (all of whom have PROVABLE roles) in that spot.

How did you know for sure that Tubby had tagged you or canadaguy? Legit curious.

I didn't mean the last day. I meant the night going into the trial with Jon. You still had 3 members, and the conned townie on the stand (who ended up killing himself to prove his innocence).

Had the day played out the same you would have ended it with 3 mafia to 4 town and killed a town overnight to make it even numbers. Even if it hadn't, what really showed publicly that Jon could have been innocent was FR blowing up, and that wouldn't have happened.

 

[Local Hero]

Spoiler: Also I have a question that I've been too scared to ask...

What is PIMI?

Peering into the mind on an idiot

 

[A Punched Face]

But in this case the town still loses regardless of whether he kills canadaguy that day or the next day.

Why'd you not quote the rest of my message where I explained this lol?

It felt like you thought you had it in the bag, being able to call your shots on who would be killed publicly and then assuming the city would just bend to your will. I was doing what I did to show otherwise.

 

[Local Hero]

After drama (or something? Maybe the whole Aphrodite incident?) killed that section of the forum, the name changed to Corpus Vitare or something? I can't remember the Latin.

In both cases, basically just shit post central

 

[Local Hero]

@Smacktard what a wonderful way to wake up, going through all the reacts

 

[Local Hero]

After drama (or something? Maybe the whole Aphrodite incident?) killed that section of the forum, the name changed to Corpus Vitare or something? I can't remember the Latin.

In both cases, basically just shit post central

I was trying to think who suggested the Latin name. I was thinking maybe it was Olga or Victoria?

 

[shortkut]

draws are lame

No you’re lame!

I wanted either a Mexican standoff badge created or a 3 amigos badge created to commemorate this event

 

[shortkut]

After drama (or something? Maybe the whole Aphrodite incident?) killed that section of the forum, the name changed to Corpus Vitare or something? I can't remember the Latin.

In both cases, basically just shit post central

I think it was corpus vile

 

[A Punched Face]

I feel like both the city and mafia agreed at the end about "If not us, Tubby" for the win. Zell straight out said it because it was rewarding good play. I was of the exact same mindset.

Dude managed to pull it off while being shushed twice AND successfully took out two mafia members.

 

[Christina]

I feel like both the city and mafia agreed at the end about "If not us, Tubby" for the win. Zell straight out said it because it was rewarding good play. I was of the exact same mindset.

Dude managed to pull it off while being shushed twice AND successfully took out two mafia members.

Tubby took a hella gamble getting himself shushed that first time. I would not have had the guts to do that.

 

[TD]

I feel like both the city and mafia agreed at the end about "If not us, Tubby" for the win. Zell straight out said it because it was rewarding good play. I was of the exact same mindset.

Dude managed to pull it off while being shushed twice AND successfully took out two mafia members.

Enter me as the Illusionist in the Lamb Chop game where I have the same mindset but actually felt both the town and wolves played well.

 

[A Punched Face]

Tubby took a hella gamble getting himself shushed that first time. I would not have had the guts to do that.

Now everyone knows:

Don't shit post too much...but make sure to shit post a littie.

 

[shortkut]

I feel like both the city and mafia agreed at the end about "If not us, Tubby" for the win. Zell straight out said it because it was rewarding good play. I was of the exact same mindset.

Dude managed to pull it off while being shushed twice AND successfully took out two mafia members.

I think the dead thread was in agreement as well