Zell Wolf The Cemetary

[Christina]

Now while in the end it didn't work out for him, I would say do to the nature of the way the cupid worked out, Kelley did use a bit of human physiology that is fun. Him confirming to Ben that he was, "Good", caused Ben to never waiver that Kelley was a seer. We like to be told we are good.

 

[Christina]

I still think Vash and I had the psychology in place for the last of the townies. Tommy was about to come out and play the savior of love. Sure they would lynch me in the end right?! Then the town betrayal would be realized after Tommy jailed and killed shortkut. We messed up with the psychology on the wolf betrayal side though. I had never once thought to calculate the wolves turning to help the town.

 

[TD]

Now while in the end it didn't work out for him, I would say do to the nature of the way the cupid worked out, Kelley did use a bit of human physiology that is fun. Him confirming to Ben that he was, "Good", caused Ben to never waiver that Kelley was a seer. We like to be told we are good.

Exactly.

This is another extreme value in not killing who the Wolf Seer targets. It makes Aura Seer a lot easier to hide in. You don't announce to everyone who is Good, but you quote them at one point and say it.

 

[TD]

I had never once thought to calculate the wolves turning to help the town.

I feel like Vash did though - didn't he post something the night of the thread that it was war?

 

[Zell 17]

Because the random roles were still there to account for it. That's why that's what people are trying to use to hide in. But once their are 4 people claiming what has to be a random role, you have a wolf in sights. How do you have 4 wolfs using 3 random spots to hide?

That's why the wolves can't just hide as random villagers. They have to fight for the fixed roles, and especially for the seer roles. And the fact that the random roles CAN BE fixed roles means that if you accidentally kill an aura, there's still no guarantee that you have found a wolf. The other aura might be real also.

Now this obviously becomes harder once the random villagers are all proven (either by dying, or by being provable, or by being checked by the only seer). Now you can still fight for the fixed roles, but the town will know that it's a 50-50.

But the game starts as 9 vs 6. You only really need to mislynch ONE villager to put the game on a knife's edge (next day, 7 v 6). That's it. You could even go absolutely balls to the wall day one and have every wolf claim to be a seer of some kind and all of them say the same villager is evil. It would probably work and evils would win! Because even though the next day the town will know all of the evils, it's already too late especially in a game like this one where there are no bullets.

Let's say day 1 in this game you have a wolf fake spirit seer one fake aura seer and one claim something like red lady who visited the fake spirit seer and the last wolf claims the role of whoever you are deciding to sell. So lets say they decide to sell Benzine:

Wolf 1 as Spirit Seer: Benzine and Holly are RED
Wolf 2 as Aura Seer: Benzine is Evil
Wolf 3 as Red Lady: I visited Wolf 1 and they are not a killer.
Benzine claims Conjuror.
Wolf 4: Benzine is fake I'm the real Conjuror.

So they all sell the shit out of Benzine and I can't imagine Benzine possibly surviving..

Now it doesn't even matter that all wolves are known. The wolf shadow is unstoppable the next day. Another villager gets lynched. The shadow the next day is even more unstoppable. It's 3 villagers vs 4 wolves,1 instigator and 1 instigated townie. The game is over.

 

[TD]

I'm assuming the above is just this game because of the lack of outright kills, yes?

 

[Christina]

I feel like Vash did though - didn't he post something the night of the thread that it was war?

He may have. Since he was a townie part of ours we both knew that failing cupid our other win goal was at odds. Me being the disadvantage there as I had to be the last wolf standing. With the way kut acted I legitly thought I hurt him. We worked that out later. My feelings where "hurt" because what I expected to could happen, didn't happen. Alu was blind sided because he was driving with no internet and came back to being outed and a lynch. It was just a mess.

 

[Zell 17]

He may have. Since he was a townie part of ours we both knew that failing cupid our other win goal was at odds. Me being the disadvantage there as I had to be the last wolf standing. With the way kut acted I legitly thought I hurt him. We worked that out later. My feelings where "hurt" because what I expected to could happen, didn't happen. Alu was blind sided because he was driving with no internet and came back to being outed and a lynch. It was just a mess.

That game was 50-50. I think the evils just thought the town was dead and sold the random killer a HAIR too early.

 

[TD]

It genuinely was a perfect storm... of chaos.

 

[Zell 17]

I'm assuming the above is just this game because of the lack of outright kills, yes?

Yeah there's no village killers. I think we could re-run this exact same setup next game and have a wildly different outcome because it takes so little for the town to lose when they cant kill anyone.

I'm not gonna do that though.

 

[TD]

I think the evils just thought the town was dead and sold the random killer a HAIR too early.

Heck, if RK killed someone it's maybe a different outcome too.

 

[TD]

WE HAVE LESS THAN EIGHT HOURS LEFT!

There's some hot debate. It seems to be down to Jawneh and Local He- WHAT'S THAT!?

GOOD GOD ALMIGHTY! THAT ROCK CAME OUT OF NOWHERE!

Local Hero has possibly been hit by a rock, but it's difficult to tell!

This Shadow is a lot more intimidating without KNOWN WOOOLVES.

 

[TD]

WAIT!?

IS LOCAL HERO THE SPIRIT SEER!?

He DID hint at the end of the day yesterday that Vash might be the Instigator and not being truthful.

is his claim too late? Will he be believed? Will he be lynched? Stoned to death? ... SURVIVE!?

 

[TD]

 

[TD]

LOCAL PULLING OUT ALL THE STOPS AGAINST THE ALLEGED INSTIGATOR.

Who wants to tell him that the Instigator is not an immediate threat!?

...except to maybe... THE WOOOOOLFPACK.

 

[Zell 17]

I respect the fight from Local here. He wouldn't have to be fighting if he'd just done it day 1 though.

You're gonna have to claim a role in the end anyways. Why not give yourself max credibility when you do?

 

[Smacktard]

I respect the fight from Local here. He wouldn't have to be fighting if he'd just done it day 1 though.

You're gonna have to claim a role in the end anyways. Why not give yourself max credibility when you do?

I think the problem with claiming roles is that it puts you on the chopping block right away. You put a target on your head and on the other claimant's head. Either you get lynched or your counterpart gets lynched, and then you get killed that night or the next day, anyway.

So often wolves wait for info. Who was aura/spirit'd, who's making claims, which roles are left, what can I take from there?

Take this game for example. I was going to drop "Ben's good" and dip, but then Vash threw his piece in too and that was pretty much the game for the day. If Vash hadn't said that, Raine would've wanted to wait for Ben's claim and then my saying Ben was good because info = power, but then there's one role wolves can't claim.

 

[Zell 17]

I think the problem with claiming roles is that it puts you on the chopping block right away. You put a target on your head and on the other claimant's head. Either you get lynched or your counterpart gets lynched, and then you get killed that night or the next day, anyway.

So often wolves wait for info. Who was aura/spirit'd, who's making claims, which roles are left, what can I take from there?

Take this game for example. I was going to drop "Ben's good" and dip, but then Vash threw his piece in too and that was pretty much the game for the day. If Vash hadn't said that, Raine would've wanted to wait for Ben's claim and then my saying Ben was good because info = power, but then there's one role wolves can't claim.

Eventually evils are gonna be forced to make a claim. It's hard to make a claim for a role when somebody else made the same claim days earlier and you said nothing. Look at poor Jawneh here.

You claimed Aura Seer relatively early in the last game and both the town AND the wolves assumed you were real. The only reason you got voted is because the wolves seered Local to figure out WHICH rk they were dealing with. When he turned out to be a Witch, they had to revisit everyone and only then did they figure out that you were the last unproven and therefore had to be the killer.

 

[TD]

Eventually after a couple games with aggressive baddies claiming early - this whole mindset of the early claims being the real ones will shift, until then people will keep believing the early claims.

 

[shortkut]

I’m about a page behind on comments.

@Zell 17 my thought on the lack of misinformation is because there are so many roles. You can’t pretend to have no role or a specific role because it is so easy to be found out. The second you get caught, you’re dead. If 5 townies were farmers, there is a lot of space to hide. If you claim a role, you have to prove it or die. If you claim farmer, there’s no way to prove it and you can skate by

 

[TD]

Why are people so focused on the Instigator?

If you kill his recruits he can start killing.
If you have wolf suspects, why wouldn't you go for him first?

 

[shortkut]

It's 3 villagers vs 4 wolves,1 instigator and 1 instigated townie. The game is over.

What if the wolf wants to win as team instigator?

 

[TD]

You can’t pretend to have no role or a specific role because it is so easy to be found out.

There's also other ways to hide info.

The Corrupter could've killed 3 people and no one would ever know their role, but alas they didn't.

On the flipside, these games are decided QUICK, typically by day 3 from what I've seen.

If all 4 wolves lie. That heavily confuses things.

 

[TD]

What if the wolf wants to win as team instigator?

Winning as team Instigator is their only option.

 

[shortkut]

There's also other ways to hide info.

The Corrupter could've killed 3 people and no one would ever know their role, but alas they didn't.

On the flipside, these games are decided QUICK, typically by day 3 from what I've seen.

If all 4 wolves lie. That heavily confuses things.

But if they all lie about the same person, they immediately become suspect

 

[Zell 17]

I’m about a page behind on comments.

@Zell 17 my thought on the lack of misinformation is because there are so many roles. You can’t pretend to have no role or a specific role because it is so easy to be found out. The second you get caught, you’re dead. If 5 townies were farmers, there is a lot of space to hide. If you claim a role, you have to prove it or die. If you claim farmer, there’s no way to prove it and you can skate by

Fun fact:

In ALL of the games we've had, with all of the seers we've had in each game: Not one time has any of the seers ever checked someone who has claimed a role. They've all gone and focused on unclaimed players. And been VERY successful in doing so, I might add.

 

[shortkut]

Winning as team Instigator is their only option.

Then why would zell use an example that shows the wolf working with the wolves? They would want to sell out a team member before the wolf win objective is reached

 

[TD]

But if they all lie about the same person, they immediately become suspect

I mean lying about their role, not about who they go after.

 

[Zell 17]

Then why would zell use an example that shows the wolf working with the wolves? They would want to sell out a team member before the wolf win objective is reached

Wolf win objective cant be reached as long as the instigated wolf is alive.

 

[TD]

Then why would zell use an example that shows the wolf working with the wolves? They would want to sell out a team member before the wolf win objective is reached

Because the wolves and Instigator group should work together early game before turning on eachother.

...we know this situation a bit too well but Instigator is more black and white.

 

[TD]

Not one time has any of the seers ever checked someone who has claimed a role.

There's way too much honesty.
This is a game of lies and deception.

 

[shortkut]

There's way too much honesty.
This is a game of lies and deception.

 

[TD]

 

[TD]

This Cat Whisperer Commentator feels BAD FOR JAWNEH!

He has openly sacrificed himself for these towns, now? THEY ARE MAKING HIM SACRIFICE HIMSELF!

Get the table!!

 

[Zell 17]

Alright you made me go back and check and I was wrong. In game 4 Kat checked Benzine after he claimed Bell Ringer.

 

[Christina]

I'm going to be honest, if I'm on team wolf in this game, I would eat the Instigator wolf the moment I knew who they were. They are not really on your team and it's a 2 for 1. Down side being the killer can now kill. Do they start killing wolfs?

 

[Zell 17]

I'm going to be honest, if I'm on team wolf in this game, I would eat the Instigator wolf the moment I knew who they were. They are not really on your team and it's a 2 for 1. Down side being the killer can now kill. Do they start killing wolfs?

Don't even eat them, sell them! Push the village to waste a kill on them.

 

[TD]

It's such an easy flip and based on what one sus person is doing to another sus person I suspect that's what happened but they didn't come off strong at all. It might still happen though.

 

[Christina]

The only advantage in this game could have been wolf chat was under shadow but instigator chat wasn't. You also can say that plan in the wolf chat, but you come out and do it and hope the other wolves follow your lead.

 

[TD]

The only advantage in this game could have been wolf chat was under shadow but instigator chat wasn't. You also can say that plan in the wolf chat, but you come out and do it and hope the other wolves follow your lead.

The other issue is - if the wolves turn on the Instigator wolf during a shadow, they effectively lose 4 votes and only have 4 votes - then it backfires completely.

 

[TD]

How funny would it be if the Instigator is willing to sacrifice the wolf Instigator to start killing?

 

[TD]

If not vote/stone Vash, vote Jawneh, stone Kit

 

[Smacktard]

Not one time has any of the seers ever checked someone who has claimed a role

Probably because there are so few people who double-claim. Take this game for example, Vash seemed like a suspect claiming spirit seer after kut died, but then I was around to back up his claim.

I supported Vash, Ben's claim, and the Ants' role was revealed. Again, extraordinary circumstances like you said, but there is a huge voting block "solved".

I'd love to see a game full of Zell's playing each other. I wonder what the wolf win rate would be

 

[Zell 17]

I'd love to see a game full of Zell's playing each other. I wonder what the wolf win rate would be

If I was a strong villager I’d claim rrv. If I doctor I’d claim doctor. If I was wolf I’d claim aura seer. RK I’d claim spirit seer. Priest id claim aura seer. It’d be fun!

 

[TD]

If I'm TD I claim EVERYTHING.

 

[Raine]

Still at work, can’t post. Sad face.

It’s hysterical watching the host gaslight you while having a conversation about a game of deception.

 

[Christina]

If it's nothing but Christinas, nobody's claiming anything and its just a bunch of shit posting.

 

[TD]

If it's nothing but Christinas, nobody's claiming anything and its just a bunch of shit posting.

And cookies I hope

 

[Christina]

And cookies I hope

Oh of course! Though my son's bday is coming up and I need to probably shift my focus to brownies. Nobody in our house really likes cake, so I have to get creative with other desserts. My son always picks brownies. He's also wanting an iron man theme. It was easier when he picked minecraft. I just used the brownies along with blue jello and rice crispy treats to make a minecraft landscape. I have no idea how to dress up brownies for iron man.

 

[TD]

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