VTS Mafia Mafia Legacy Year 2 (Night 5/Day 5)

[VashTheStampede]

1

 

[Smacktard]

3 people alive 1 person on trial: what's the jury size?

You don't believe me? Man, you got some trust issues.

Alright, in the spirit of trust-building: @VashTheStampede do the thing.

 

[A Baby Maker]

That's precisely why the bomber has tagged you, but has chosen not to kill you until tomorrow.

And what's to stop them from immediately killing the person tagged if/when we agree to this, thus making it a 0% chance of a citizen win?

This just sounds like a plan to once again make it a choice for the citizens to pick between the mafia and the bomber as opposed to the mafia choosing between the city and the bomber.

 

[Smacktard]

And what's to stop them from immediately killing the person tagged if/when we agree to this, thus making it a 0% chance of a citizen win?

In that case, we renegotiate and change votes. Simple as.

 

[A Baby Maker]

In that case, we renegotiate and change votes. Simple as.

And what could a result of that negotiation be?

It would be 1-2-1 at that point. To even it out, you'd be executed at trial. 1-1-1.

What scenario could end with a city win at that point? The instant one other player dies the city loses. Either the whole mafia is eliminated and the bomber wins instantly, or the bomber is eliminated and the Mafia has equal numbers to the town, Mafia wins. If the citizen dies the Bomber wins.


The instant the city goes down to 1 person, the city loses.

 

[Smacktard]

And what could a result of that negotiation be?

It would be 1-2-1 at that point. To even it out, you'd be executed at trial. 1-1-1.

What scenario could end with a city win at that point? The instant one other player dies the city loses. Either the whole mafia is eliminated and the bomber wins instantly, or the bomber is eliminated and the Mafia has equal numbers to the town, Mafia wins. If the citizen dies the Bomber wins.


The instant the city goes down to 1 person, the city loses.

This is the only chance the city has. Do you take it?

 

[VashTheStampede]

You don't believe me? Man, you got some trust issues.

Alright, in the spirit of trust-building: @VashTheStampede do the thing.

Smacktard has failed to perform his Tell!

Smacktard is Joey Peeps , The Don! (For every post he makes, he has to "react" to the post before it)

 

[A Baby Maker]

This is the only chance the city has. Do you take it?

How is it a chance if it's 0%?

 

[Smacktard]

How is it a chance if it's 0%?

I am telling you that if the game goes any other way, citizens have a 0% chance. This is the Don's guarantee.

If you follow our plan, there's at least a possibility that the bomber, seeing he has no chance to win, does not blow a townie up today.

 

[A Baby Maker]

I am telling you that if the game goes any other way, citizens have a 0% chance. This is the Don's guarantee.

If you follow our plan, there's at least a possibility that the bomber, seeing he has no chance to win, does not blow a townie up today.

The bomber has a chance to win if he blows a citizen up. Just needs to convince the other citizen to arrest the mafia member.

If the bomber doesn't kill one of us, it's a 0% chance they win under your plan. If they do, they just need to convince one person to vote with them.

 

[A Baby Maker]

My plan from earlier: 0% chance the mafia wins
Your plan now: 0% chance the city wins (because the bomber would make things go boom) due to...
Your plan if the bomber decides they don't feel like winning: 0% the bomber wins

What you're proposing basically guarantees the bomber kills a citizen today. My plan gives the bomber a really good chance of winning, with a very slim chance of the city winning.

You don't control what the bomber does.

 

[Smacktard]

Your plan now: 0% >0% chance the city wins (because the bomber would perhaps decides not to make things go boom)...

I think your slim chance for a win is here, counting on the bomber realizing it's game over for them anyway, and fading quietly away. I doubt the town will be sympathetic to the bomber after he torpedoes his chances. This is, in my view, the only way the town has a chance of winning.

What you're proposing basically guarantees the bomber kills a citizen today. My plan gives the bomber a really good chance of winning, with a very slim chance of the city winning.

You keep hanging on to this, but I promise you it's not happening. It's not slim. It's 0%.

 

[A Baby Maker]

I think your slim chance for a win is here, counting on the bomber realizing it's game over for them anyway, and fading quietly away. I doubt the town will be sympathetic to the bomber after he torpedoes his chances. This is, in my view, the only way the town has a chance of winning.

You keep hanging on to this, but I promise you it's not happening. It's not slim. It's 0%.

It wouldn't be over for the bomber if they kill a citizen, how do you not see this?

They kill one today, convince the other to jail the other mafia member tonight. Kill the other citizen tomorrow or vote with the citizen to kill the mafia member. Bomber wins.

 

[Smacktard]

It wouldn't be over for the bomber if they kill a citizen, how do you not see this?

I reiterate:
I doubt the town will be sympathetic to the bomber after he torpedoes their* [*correction] chances.

I also reiterate:
Otherwise, it's 0% chance you win. The Don guarantees it.

 

[A Baby Maker]

I reiterate:
I doubt the town will be sympathetic to the bomber after he torpedoes their* [*correction] chances.

I also reiterate:
Otherwise, it's 0% chance you win. The Don guarantees it.

Sounds like the mafia is sympathetic to the bomber despite the bomber killing two mafia members.

 

[Smacktard]

Sounds like the mafia is sympathetic to the bomber despite the bomber killing two mafia members.

I don't see why we ought to reward a town that has made the wrong decision at virtually every turn. The best you deserve is a role of the dice.

 

[A Baby Maker]

I don't see why we ought to reward a town that has made the wrong decision at virtually every turn. The best you deserve is a role of the dice.

I don't see why I should reward a mafia at all when you're trying to convince me giving you a shot to win is in my best interest.

 

[A Baby Maker]

As I said before, the Bomber deserves the win for being the only person (until possibly later today) to kill any mafia members. However, if the mafia would choose to deny them that win, it's on you.

 

[Smacktard]

I don't see why I should reward a mafia at all when you're trying to convince me giving you a shot to win is in my best interest.

The term "mutually beneficial" means nothing to you?

It's not the best chance you have -- it's the only chance you have:
There's a chance the bomber tagged shortkut.
There's a chance the bomber tagged mafia.
There's a chance the bomber decides not to press the detonate button if you vote for yourself.

If you don't comply, there's no chance you win.

the Bomber deserves the win for being the only person (until possibly later today) to kill any mafia members.

In that case, what have you got to lose? Vote yourself for jail, and if one of you goes "boom", vote with the bomber instead for Zell and give the bomber the game, as you want. I've already told you Zell's the remaining mafia.

 

[A Baby Maker]

There's a chance the bomber tagged mafia.

Zell posted more times than Tubby yesterday. Are you saying Zell is the Bomber?

Also if we vote for ourselves, it gives the bomber a 0% chance of winning and therefore a 100% chance of blowing someone up. You publicly stated "I'll see you in the dead thread" to shortkut yesterday, why would the bomber tag him?

 

[A Baby Maker]

You're arguing that this is mutually beneficial, but it's not. It's only beneficial to you. You're talking about the city making mistakes left and right but overlooking the fact that your mistake yesterday of implying you'd kill kut gave the bomber the person to not target.

See: https://gwforums.com/threads/mafia-legacy-year-night-4-day-4.960/post-56769

 

[Smacktard]

Zell posted more times than Tubby yesterday. Are you saying Zell is the Bomber?

If you don't believe me, there's a chance he is.

Also if we vote for ourselves, it gives the bomber a 0% chance of winning and therefore a 100% chance of blowing someone up.

Only if he decides to pull the trigger, and is ABLE to pull the trigger. And in that case, the game will go to the bomber, just like you would like. And I'm telling you the bomber is Tubby, so just vote for Zell.

If you don't vote for yourselves, there is a 0% chance the town wins.

Right now, you're just deciding whether you should:

• Lose. 100% give it to the bomber (Method: voting for no one, or splitting votes between Zell and Tubby. MAD for bomber + mafia when voting = no votes, ergo bomber wins the next day by bombing remaining mafia)
• Lose. MAYBE give the game to the bomber OR the mafia (Method: voting for yourself, and then causing the bomber to go "boom")
• 50/50 Win. Having a 50/50 chance of winning between you and the mafia (Method: by voting for yourself, and the bomber not being able to pull off his "boom")

And for some reason, you seem to be fighting to lose.

You publicly stated "I'll see you in the dead thread" to shortkut yesterday, why would the bomber tag him?

Come on, think this through. What if he thought I was bluffing and tagged him because of that? There's always a possibility. That's what makes your chances better than 0%. You thought I was bluffing about being the Don. You still think I'm bluffing about Zell being mafia. You only know I wasn't bluffing about shortkut in retrospect.

 

[A Baby Maker]

You still think I'm bluffing about Zell being mafia

Nah - I just think it amounts to you missing what's in plain sight:

The bomber is going to win this game unless you decide otherwise. I'm fine with that. Even though we identified tubby as a person to be put on trial really early on in Day 3 and then for some reason went to Jon, he'd deserve to win for keeping himself in a place where he could win by taking out the right people.

 

[Smacktard]

The bomber is going to win this game unless you decide otherwise.

Fine. Then you have nothing to lose by attempting to vote for yourselves. Either you pull it off and you actually have a 50/50 shot of winning because the bomber really had tagged shortkut, or, again, you just give the game to the bomber like you intend to.

Ball's in your court. You can choose to play the game of chance or not, but there's literally no reason not to. And if I were the town, I'd be pretty annoyed if I found out you didn't at least try to win if Vash reveals after the game ends that Tubby really had tagged shortkut.

But then, that wouldn't be the first dumb mistake the City made this game.

 

[Smacktard]

Actually, I think you know there's a chance that the town still wins using the method I outlined.

I think you just want the mafia to lose so badly that you don't even want to even acknowledge the possibility that that chance exists for yourselves.

 

[A Baby Maker]

Actually, I think you know there's a chance that the town still wins using the method I outlined.

I think you just want the mafia to lose so badly that you don't even want to even acknowledge the possibility that that chance exists for yourselves.

Nah I'm actually just waiting to have time to read your essays from earlier to see if you wordsmithed your way into a chance. I do like me some good story telling.

 

[Smacktard]

Nah I'm actually just waiting to have time to read your essays from earlier to see if you wordsmithed your way into a chance. I do like me some good story telling.

Trust me: it's better than the other obnoxious tripe I've been shitting this thread up with

 

[canadaguy]

But then, that wouldn't be the first dumb mistake the City made this game.

Is this supposed to make me want to support your cause?

 

[canadaguy]

I mean if tubbys the bomber and I think he is, I'll give him the win solely for pulling that off while being shushed twice

 

[Smacktard]

Is this supposed to make me want to support your cause?

My cause of... giving you a possible way to win? I dunno man, but if not, I REALLY hope Tubby tagged 'kut last night, because if so that'd be fucking hilarious. And would be very on-brand for this game.

 

[A Baby Maker]

The prose has been deemed acceptable for consideration.

@canadaguy - what we could do, now that the mafia has realized we can force them to lose in multiple ways, is this:

1. Stick with the original plan of not voting and forcing the mafia to choose
2. Go with a modified version of Kelly's plan
   1. Kill Kelly (obviously the prose was not good enough to earn a not guilty verdict, Mr. Confirmed Don)
   2. Vote for one of the two of us
   3. If one of us goes boom before the end of the day, switch to voting with Tubby for Zell

Benefits of the first plan:

• We don't got to do shit but wait and see

Drawbacks:

• Zell has pretty clearly stated in the past that evils should want evils to win even if it's not them (when it comes to his game) so we've probably already lost

Benefits of the second one:

• We still get to kill Kelly (yay!)
• If tubby for some reason tagged shortkut instead of one of the two of us hilarity will continue to ensue in this game
• If tubby tagged one of us, we can vote for his well deserved victory to take place

Drawbacks:

• We actually have to pay attention
• Tubby likely tagged one of us meaning we probably have already lost

What are your thoughts, my fellow Eric?

 

[canadaguy]

I mean you are asking me which plan I like when one includes killing someone?

 

[A Baby Maker]

I mean you are asking me which plan I like when one includes killing someone?

They both involve killing Kelly.

 

[A Baby Maker]

Should have been more specific there. But Kelly gonna be dead.

 

[canadaguy]

They both involve killing Kelly.

Aww I see. Yeah I think it being listed only as a plus on one side threw me.

 

[VashTheStampede]

canadaguy has been killed by the Mad Bomber. He was the Librarian. (Strength)

All "shushes" are now void.

@Zell 17 has been named as Jury Alternate

 

[Smacktard]

Now is the part where you vote for Zell and give the game to the mad bomber.

 

[A Baby Maker]

Now is the part where you vote for Zell and give the game to the mad bomber.

Why would I do that literally this instant when EVERYONE CAN POST now?

Get them stats. Make the case.

 

[A Baby Maker]

New achievement unlocked: Last Eric/k standing

Also Tubby is online and Zell is not. 2:45 Eastern is an interesting time to plan ahead in terms of "blow up person" but I suppose to role does specify the person is mad.


@VashTheStampede how far through the day phase are we now? Like 9 and a half hours in?

 

[Zell 17]

Hey guys. Love you @canadaguy

 

[Tubby23]

Firstly: Jury vote Guilty - Kelly has been a very naughty boy

 

[A Baby Maker]

Oh man look at these posts rolling in.

 

[Smacktard]

Why would I do that literally this instant when EVERYONE CAN POST now?

Get them stats. Make the case.

"DANCE, PUPPETS, DANCE FOR MY AMUSEMENT"

Okay, here's my case:
Mafia played the town like a fiddle. I don't think we deserve to lose just because FR fucked up and didn't paying attention to his post count.

Also that RP write-up made a good in-universe case for handing the game to the Mafia. Prosperity! Working together-ness! All that jazz.

 

[Tubby23]

New achievement unlocked: Last Eric/k standing

Also Tubby is online and Zell is not. 2:45 Eastern is an interesting time to plan ahead in terms of "blow up person" but I suppose to role does specify the person is mad.


@VashTheStampede how far through the day phase are we now? Like 9 and a half hours in?

It's 5.45am Eastern but yes the bomber certainly is mad

 

[Smacktard]

Firstly: Jury vote Guilty - Kelly has been a very naughty boy

At least I haven't been blowing people up indiscriminately

 

[Tubby23]

"DANCE, PUPPETS, DANCE FOR MY AMUSEMENT"

Okay, here's my case:
Mafia played the town like a fiddle. I don't think we deserve to lose just because FR fucked up and didn't paying attention to his post count.

Also that RP write-up made a good in-universe case for handing the game to the Mafia. Prosperity! Working together-ness! All that jazz.

Wait till you see the manifesto

 

[Tubby23]

At least I haven't been blowing people up indiscriminately

The sins of you and your brethren have led to the fall of this once great City

 

[A Baby Maker]

At least I haven't been blowing people up indiscriminately

I mean it seemed to work for dearly departed @canadaguy in the last game. Maybe you should have tried it Mr. Oh Wait I Killed a Bunch of People with Chlamydia.

 

[Smacktard]

The sins of you and your brethren have led to the fall of this once great City

Curse you, bomberman! *shakes fist*

 

[Tubby23]

Only one person was brave enough to see the decline and ensure something was done to end our pain