Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version3 Night2/Day2

[Raposuh]

Got it. Claiming to protect Ryan is a good, unprovable claim.

Would @canadaguy know if he was attacked? It'd be good to get confirmation if possible, but I agree Raposa is most suspicious.

It looks like killing in the jail comes before RK kills, so if either Vash or Raposa are RK, then it doesn't matter which we lynch and which we kill in jail. Unless we're concerned they have berserker wolf and it'll be used on Holly.

Okay I reread the last page and also sobered up a little.

I see why TD is voting for me, Benzine is also claiming bodyguard and that he protected CG which is why there was no wolf kill last night. This looks way better than me claiming to protect Ryan who died to potion.

But the thing is that bodyguard claims are unprovable until you're dead. Only you are notified if your protect is successful, and unlike tough guy you don't bleed out at the end of the next phase, but you also don't get any info out of the attack.

So basically it's a coin flip between me and Benzine, with the added caveat that with random roles added we could both be telling the truth, which leads to way more suspicion for the 3(4?) seers and Ants claiming another random role.

 

[Ants!]

I protected canadaguy and have been told he was attacked.

Okay sorry, I missed that completely. Disregard my shitty theory then.

I mean it still makes sense for me that a wolf fan would make themselves a wolf target in that way (maybe Fool?), but clearly whoever they are, they’re still townie. Sorry if this is also something that’s been covered and discarded. I’m about to go to bed.

 

[Benzine]

Nah, there's lots of plays that could be going on frankly, there's nothing wrong with thinking of other things. I'm thinking of a lovely play that wolves could be doing, but I have to read through a huge fucken thread to find some info I think I read when we were there.

 

[Benzine]

Okay I reread the last page and also sobered up a little.

I see why TD is voting for me, Benzine is also claiming bodyguard and that he protected CG which is why there was no wolf kill last night. This looks way better than me claiming to protect Ryan who died to potion.

But the thing is that bodyguard claims are unprovable until you're dead. Only you are notified if your protect is successful, and unlike tough guy you don't bleed out at the end of the next phase, but you also don't get any info out of the attack.

So basically it's a coin flip between me and Benzine, with the added caveat that with random roles added we could both be telling the truth, which leads to way more suspicion for the 3(4?) seers and Ants claiming another random role.

But no wolf died? No one else is claiming to have protected someone who is still alive, are they? Just you saying you protected someone who was killed... Where if you had actually protected them, the witch wouldn't have killed them? I haven't read anything saying that a witches kill can't be stopped.

 

[Kat]

But doesn't this make sense as a play that could be done? If he gets killed at night, then all the doubt and fighting caused by the claim can remain because he's ???, instead of "oh, yeah, he was seer", which can then help to outline potential suspects.

Whereas, there's very little be gained at all otherwise, isn't there? It's not like being a wolf could gain anything from it... like, it'd be beyond crazy to go wolf on wolf arguing, if the town gets a bad start they're doomed, why make it easier for them by causing a scene and killing a wolf? Solo killer? Why get the attention, someone is likely checking you in some fashion after that.

The chess analogy spoke to me, I think Ryan was just trying to get the ball rolling and get us a head start in the way of killing a wolf, and giving other roles people they can look at from the discussion to look up, hopefully increasing success. He wins even if he's dead - he just needs to be able to give us some info, and make us confident that it's right - which, if this is panning out that Ryan is a seer and Cole is a wolf, is being hampered by that confusing wolf.

So far, I don't think this is a stretch to think. I think riling up against Ryan was a bit needless from people who aren't Cole. Unless they want to sow some confusion... at least for a few days. It doesn't take too long to get the game to go far enough if people aren't hitting their targets.

If it weren't for the fact that I've not seen someone else claim to be the Witch, I'd say you were a wolf, Kat! If someone out there is a witch, I'd really like to hear it.

@aura seer I played football all my childhood life so I know who you're referencing, but that's it.

I'm also going to say that I think FR is suspect, but based only off chit chat throughout the thread. I think I just think when someone is involved in a boring event like they've just been through, but maybe confusing elements on the surface, they start to use it to seem innocent.

In summation, it seems like chaos is being used and I think there's some lying going on. Almost like a game of werewolf.

Hope this isn't a dumb post while I'm sick, haha.

Maybe. Like I said, I found him suspicious before and he was indeed lying but was still a townie, so it's impossible to say what he was actually up to. We probably won't know for sure until the game ends. I agree it doesn't make much sense as a strategy for any role, so I don't have a good theory. I was mostly hoping we'd get some info from his death, some of the seers are lying and either way it'd help us narrow down who, buuut it obviously didn't work out that way.

Maybe I should've waited, but I also wanted you all to be able to trust me, and he was imo the best target at the time.

Wait, why am I a target now? I missed something.

You claimed to protect Ryan and Benzine is claiming bodyguard role. Almost certainly one of you is lying. I'm not sure why TD is assuming it's you, since both claims seem impossible to prove or disprove unless cg can confirm he was a target last night or someone else claims they protected someone who was attacked.

The other option is you're both legit and at least one other person claiming an optional role is lying. Which doesn't seem outside the realm of possibility either. @TD what do you think of that possibility? Why are you so sure Raposa is a bad guy?

 

[Kat]

Just you saying you protected someone who was killed... Where if you had actually protected them, the witch wouldn't have killed them? I haven't read anything saying that a witches kill can't be stopped.

Nah, it says protection only works against wolf and solo kills, so a townie kill would still get through.

 

[Benzine]

Sorry, could you help highlight that for me? I'm worried I'm being dumb/sick, but I'm reading the description and that's not how I would understand it. Might need a clarification from Zell. I will ask alongside another question I'm researching now.

 

[Kat]

Sorry, could you help highlight that for me? I'm worried I'm being dumb/sick, but I'm reading the description and that's not how I would understand it. Might need a clarification from Zell. I will ask alongside another question I'm researching now.

Bodyguard - Can save a player at night. If they or the person they are guarding are attacked by normal evil/solo night attacks, the person they are guarding will be protected and the bodyguard will be injured

Zell has said previously that solo means the solo/random killer, not townie attacks. It's the same reason the marksman was able to kill Cole in jail.

 

[canadaguy]

Sorry, could you help highlight that for me? I'm worried I'm being dumb/sick, but I'm reading the description and that's not how I would understand it. Might need a clarification from Zell. I will ask alongside another question I'm researching now.

The protection roles read cannot be killed by "normal evil/solo kills"

 

[Benzine]

Bodyguard - Can save a player at night. If they or the person they are guarding are attacked by normal evil/solo night attacks, the person they are guarding will be protected and the bodyguard will be injured

Zell has said previously that solo means the solo/random killer, not townie attacks. It's the same reason the marksman was able to kill Cole in jail.

Can save a player at night doesn't indicate from only baddies. But yeah, the next sentence does kind of imply non evil kills will get through. My brain just registers it as two different articles.

But, for the Tough Guy:

Tough Guy - Can save a player at night. If they or the person they are guarding are attacked by normal evil/solo night attacks, they will be told who attacked them. If it is the wolves, they will be given the identity and role of the lowest ranking remaining wolf. A jailed wolf will not be selected. That wolf/solo that attacks the tough guy will also be notified of the identity of the tough guy. The tough guy will die at the end of the day. The tough guy will be notified if their protection is successful, but the village at large will not be aside from the person who attacked. If the tough guy saves a player from multiple attacks (both the wolves and solo killer), they will see multiple culprits. They use their ability by PMing the name of the person they wish to protect. Aura: Good.

None of that mentions that it must be a evil role - just that additional things happen if they are evil or solo. When I combine that with the Bodyguard description...

As long as I can make space in my brain to believe that Kit is also a defending role, why can't we have multiple? Let's be pals @Raposa, we can work together to protect our important roles that we already know.

Cause I'm sure @Zell 17 will clarify the above for me to say that these roles only protect from bads, I may as well ask at the same time: if the ritualist uses their thing on me and I die, do I get my powers back when rezzed?

If the answer to that is yes, the ritualist should consider using their ability on me. I know who some of our good guys are, have protected a role that's done very well for us. As mentioned, no one else is claiming to have been told they protected someone. I doubt anyone will either - the bad guys will typically know when someone is being honest.

 

[Benzine]

Sorry, I should rephrase that as will the bodyguard get their powers back.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Hmmm it's possible. His behavior was so strange and erratic, and that's all good an explanation as any. It would explain why the wolves used confusion even though it would've been obvious Cole is a wolf regardless; they would know he wasn't a wolf and whatever his role actually was would be useful to us.

If Ryan was the fan, then Vash is lying, and almost certainly the RK. Worst case scenario, he's the fan, and getting rid of him prevents a future wolf. Although ideally I'd like the wolves to use a "kill" on him before we take him out, it might be safest to just get rid of him now.

I vote Vash and no skip.

Post in thread 'GWF Wolf - Zell's Version3 Night 1/Day 1' https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-wolf-zells-version3-night-1-day-1.482/post-16445

Hopefully that link works...

Damn, I even made a press release saying that I am in no way claiming to be the Werewolf Fan, it was just a coincidence. I didn't even realize that role was in the game at first, it was just me whining that I literally ALWAYS get a townie role.

 

[VashTheStampede]

So I had just finished saying Vash likes to embody his role.

...is gasoline a brain altering chemical?

I wasn't in character, just drunk.

Although I guess perhaps if there is an arsonist maybe the fumes weren't helping. I'm assuming the witch protection can't stop "dousing" if the Tough Guy and Bodyguard can't.

 

[Benzine]

Hello Vash. What are you going to do this evening?

 

[VashTheStampede]

Hello Vash. What are you going to do this evening?

1. Not drink anything unless it's provided by someone with a pointy hat.
2. Maybe keep an eye on someone else because apparently I have a compatriot who is better at this than me.
3. I typically watch wrestling on Wednesday nights but that has nothing to do with the game.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I'd like to remind that I revealed that Canadaguy was unknown after Alu hinted it page one (which I did not understand), and I've received Fool is Good, after I suspected him of being a wolf and voted to lynch him.

To suspect me is either stupid or means you're a wolf.

I'd like to remind everyone that when people started voting for Cole, this one here immediately went after Fool's instead and never really explained why. Just immediate ride-or-die for Cole. I said yesterday that if Cole is a wolf, we need to look at Hero.

Now Cole is dead and we're still waiting to see if he was a wolf...and Hero is now on the Fool's Is Good train. Sure, maybe it's the truth and he's one of our 9 seers. Definitely could be the case.

 

[Benzine]

As sure as Odin is one mana, I don't think local hiro is a wolf. I think it's more likely TD.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Our votes are all over the place.

 

[Ants!]

I haven’t figured out who to vote for yet, but I know it’s going to be one of the other four random role claimers besides myself. Because at a minimum, two are lying.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Well mainly because I've got a couple votes on me and that gives me the icks, I'm gonna lay mine on Local Hero until i see otherwise

 

[Ants!]

I’ll have to correct myself: although I feel pretty confident about Coleman being wolf, I suppose it’s possible that Ryan could have been one of those two liars. Damn you, confusion wolf. Lol

 

[Ants!]

Wait, no, Coleman was claiming flower child, so he was one of the liars. Which means if Ryan was also lying, then it’s possible that all of our remaining seers are telling the truth. Ugh!

 

[VashTheStampede]

Oh and for the record, Wednesday is my busiest day of the work week (have to put up the new ad, order a shipment, unload and work a shipment), so I'm not likely going to be shitposting/defending myself all day. Pretty sure TD, Alu, and maybe canadaguy know what I've got going on so hopefully I don't have to punch it out all day.

 

[TD]

Okay I'm awake.

There's way too much to quote and crop - I start work soon so instead I'm going to address what I'm on about.

Raposa and Benzine have both hinted bodyguard. Raposa started yesterday with non-specific posts about it and then conveniently posted they were covering Ryan. Benzine's post was very specific, lying that specifically is bold. Could he be a wolf? Yeah, that's definitely possible because he'd know exactly why the wolf kill failed, we have no way of confirming who anyone is because the wolves keep using confusion and conveniently all these role claims keep coming in. I initially thought that protecting Alu made a ton of sense due to his obvious role, but he's since claimed canadaguy which feels a bit more.. random? Maybe canadaguy dropped a hint yesterday that I missed, but all Alu confirmed was unknown. Which could be the RK but mathematically speaking.

So that means one of Benzine or Raposa are claiming ANOTHER random role, on top of all these other role claims. I CAN SAY WITH CERTAINTY, there is a lot of lying going on with these role claims. Whether it's cause they're a wolf, associated with the wolves, the RK, or lying about it as a town member for some reason. It's too early to be able to identify who is lying about what with facts.

Speaking of wolves, are we moving forward with the assumption that both Cole and Ryan are wolves? That is important. Why?

If Benzine is to be believed, there is ONE wolf remaining who's probably scared of exposing themselves after a botched kill and is now trying to lay low until they can regroup.

My vote remains unless someone can clarify why one of them isn't lying.

 

[Raine]

Alright, I caught up again through skimming. Hopefully I got the gist of most of it. I only got like twenty minutes this morning and lunch break, else it's gotta wait until tonight.

Did we get clarification from @Zell 17 on how Confusion Wolf works? Like, we've now learned it masks all kills made in a night. But do the wolves see the roles of the kills made by others?

Kind of side-eyeing this whole night protection thing a bit, especially with the timing, but also have to double back into Day 1's nonsense to double check.

 

[Ants!]

Have TD, Rapoza, killface, and vash role claimed yet?

 

[Raine]

Not outright, I don't think. But they've dropped hints.

 

[Killface!]

Have TD, Rapoza, killface, and vash role claimed yet?

Out right said? No.

Hinted at? Yes.

I am just waking up and can provide more info in a little bit.

 

[Ants!]

Also, Canadaguy

 

[Raine]

CG took Cole's head off.

 

[TD]

Have TD, Rapoza, killface, and vash role claimed yet?

Also, Canadaguy

Raposa is CLAIMING to be Bodyguard.
canadaguy is CLAIMING to be the Marksman.

Vash has HINTED at things, apparently Killface has HINTED at things.

LIKE I SAID - I KNOW FOR A FACT THERE IS A LOT OF BULLSHIT OUT THERE.

 

[Zell 17]

Votes to lynch (6 required):

VashTheStampede - 3 (Kat, Fool's Requiem, Local Hero)
Raposa - 1 (TD)
Local Hero - 1 (VashTheStampede)

No votes - aura seer, Ants!, Benzine, canadaguy, Holly, Killface!, Raposa, Warp

Votes to skip (12 required):

No votes - aura seer, Ants!, Benzine, canadaguy, Fool's Requiem, Holly, Kat, Killface!, Local Hero, Raposa, TD, VashTheStampede, Warp

 

[Ants!]

If we have two bodyguards, then that makes one more person that is lying somewhere.

 

[TD]

If we have two bodyguards, then that makes one more person that is lying somewhere.

Honestly by my count there's like 7 or something claims (including yours) that fall into the random category.

And that's without knowing for certain the roles of shortkut (confirmed townie), and Cole/Ryan.

Speaking of them - I'd love to be a fly on the wall of that. Who thinks they're still bickering?

 

[A Punched Face]

If we have two bodyguards, then that makes one more person that is lying somewhere.

Everyone is lying. Vash is snorting gasoline, kat really loves the color brown, and Zell is the real wolf.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Honestly after last night I'm more convinced than ever we have multiple seer liars.

 

[TD]

I mean mathematically speaking that sounds about right, especially when you consider the other random role claim lies.

IT DOESN'T MAKE ANY SENSE.

 

[TD]

The only thing I can think of is that Zell very openly said that Cole has figured out the meta. We know Cole was a wolf. It's possible Cole has the meta for the wolves too which is just everybody role claims outright and fucks with everyone.

Like Vash said, subtlety is dead.
uB
ut lying is not.

 

[Raposuh]

BTW, does anyone else think it would be hilarious if shortkut was the Sorceror, and the random wolf is a wolf seer that landed on shortkut night 1? Sorceror would show up as Aura Seer to them and they'd for sure take him out.

 

[Ants!]

I’m paired up today with somebody who might be less forgiving of seeing me on my phone a lot, so I might be less active today until after work

Or at least I’ll have to continue just skimming before posting.

 

[Raposuh]

I promise to keep the post count up for everybody who can't be here today. Just tell me what your roles are and I'll handle it no problem.

 

[Ants!]

I’m the priest, you pick who I splash water on.

 

[Ants!]

Just checked that Priest actually is on the list for random roles in this game so just to clarify: that was not a serious role claim.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Just checked that Priest actually is on the list for random roles in this game so just to clarify: that was not a serious role claim.

Yeah you gotta be careful with the jokes or you wake up with votes on ya

 

[Local Hero]

I'd like to remind everyone that when people started voting for Cole, this one here immediately went after Fool's instead and never really explained why. Just immediate ride-or-die for Cole. I said yesterday that if Cole is a wolf, we need to look at Hero.

Now Cole is dead and we're still waiting to see if he was a wolf...and Hero is now on the Fool's Is Good train. Sure, maybe it's the truth and he's one of our 9 seers. Definitely could be the case.

I just didn't want to bandwagon to Cole when I, personally, felt strongly that Fool was lying - which I was clearly wrong about and Aura checked Fool that night.

Has anyone done a full list of all roles claimed?

Who did Warp claim? Spirit Seer?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Voting Ants because lol.

 

[A Punched Face]

Yeah you gotta be careful with the jokes or you wake up with votes on ya

Oh is that the worst thing they could end up on you? Sounds like something someone who pours gasoline on the world at night would say

 

[Raposuh]

Just a harmless gasoline fight enthusiast, is Vash. What could happen?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Ok, I got it now. Alu, is that what you believe Vash is?

 

[Fool's Requiem]

If Vash is Arso, I'd definitely like to get him out before he fucks all of us.