Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Version VI Night 3 / Day 3

[Zell 17]

Night 1		Action	Result
Ben	Farmer	Nothing
Smacktard	Aura Seer	Check Ben	Good
Ants!	Preacher	Watch shortkut	Added Vote (2 total)
Holly	Judge	Nothing
Tubby23	Shadow Wolf	Nothing
shortkut	Spirit Seer	Check Ben and Smacktard	Dead
canadaguy	Flagger	Redirect from canadaguy to Ben
Benzine	Conjuror	Nothing
Raposuh	Instigator	Nothing
Local Hero	Wolf Seer	Check shortkut	Spirit Seer
Jawneh	Doctor	Protect Raposa
Tommy Boy	Violinist	Nothing
VashTheStampede	Spirit Seer	Check Ben and Raine	Red
Alu	Shadow Wolf	Nothing
Fool's Requiem	Bully	Nothing
Raine	Berserk Werewolf	Nothing
Wolves	Wolves	Attack shortkut	shortkut dead
Day 1
Tubby23	Shadow at 1 pm ET
Holly	Convict Raine
Benzine	Take Spirit Seer
Fool's Requiem	Concuss Raine
Day 1 Votes
Ben	Raine		Skip
Smacktard	Raine		Skip
Ants!	Raine	x2
Holly	Raine
Tubby23	Benzine	x2
canadaguy	Raine
Benzine	Raine
Raposuh	Benzine
Local Hero	Benzine	x2
Jawneh	Benzine
Tommy Boy	Raine		Skip
VashTheStampede	Raine		Skip
Alu	Benzine	x2
Fool's Requiem	Raine
Raine
	Raine	10​
	Benzine	8​
Night 2		Action	Result
Ben	Farmer	Nothing
Smacktard	Aura Seer	Check Raposuh	Unknown
Ants!	Preacher	Watch Smacktard	Added Vote (3 total)
Holly	Judge	Nothing
Tubby23	Shadow Wolf	Nothing
canadaguy	Flagger	Redirect from canadaguy to Tommy Boy
Benzine	Conjuror (Spirit Seer)	Check Raposuh	Blue
Raposuh	Instigator	Nothing
Local Hero	Wolf Seer	Check canadaguy	Flagger
Jawneh	Doctor	Protect Raposa
Tommy Boy	Violinist	Check canadaguy	Mourns shortkut
VashTheStampede	Spirit Seer	Check Raposuh and Tommy Boy	Blue
Alu	Shadow Wolf	Nothing
Fool's Requiem	Bully	Nothing
Wolves	Wolves	Kill Smacktard	Smacktard dead
Day 2
Fool's Requiem	Concuss Alu
Benzine	Take Aura Seer
Day 2 Votes
Ben	Jawneh
Ants!	Jawneh	x3
Holly	Local Hero
Tubby23	Local Hero	x2
canadaguy	Jawneh
Benzine	Jawneh
Raposuh	Local Hero
Local Hero	VashTheStampede	x2
Jawneh	Local Hero
Tommy Boy	Jawneh
VashTheStampede	Jawneh
Alu
Fool's Requiem	Jawneh
	Jawneh	9​
	Local Hero	5​
	VashTheStampede	2​
Night 3		Action	Result
Ben	Farmer	Nothing
Ants!	Preacher	Watch Benzine	Nothing
Holly	Judge	Nothing
canadaguy	Flagger	Redirect from Benzine to Raposa	Successful
Benzine	Conjuror (Aura Seer)	Check Local Hero	Evil
Raposuh	Instigator	Kill Benzine	Raposa dead
Local Hero	Wolf Seer	Check Raposuh + Resign	Instigator
Tommy Boy	Violinist	Check Local Hero	Does not mourn Smacktard
VashTheStampede	Spirit Seer	Check Alu	Red
Alu	Shadow Wolf	Nothing
Fool's Requiem	Bully	Nothing
Wolves	Wolves	Fool's Requiem

 

[A Punched Face]

I know I am typically not very active in these games, but that's just how I've always been. Last night after the post closed I looked back at the last two days to try to figure out where we are.

Name	Role Claimed	Actual Role Confirmed	"Verified" by
Ben	Farmer		Vash, Smacktard
Ants!	Preacher	Preacher	Zell lol
Holly	Judge	Judge	Me, myself, and I
canadaguy	Flagger		Tommy Boy
Benzine	Conjuror
Local Hero	Spirit Seer
Tommy Boy	Violinist		Vash
Vash	Spirit Seer
Alu	None

Benzine tried to pull heat off of Local Hero yesterday here. He also, however, was the first to suspect the Doctor may be instigated at the time he claimed conjuror here, and pivoted to voting for Jawneh here. Finally, this was another high effort post working out the strat to investigate Local last night and vote Jawneh yesterday.
Vash said Raposuh and Tommy hadn't killed the previous night here. Vash said that Benzine also confirmed Raposuh was not a wolf in this post, but I either missed or couldn't find the post that Benzine said that.
Fool pointed out Vash could be the Wolf Seer here.
And here is where Local claimed Spirit Seer. He said he suspected Vash was the Wolf Seer but that he now believes him to be the Instigator. We now know that that was incorrect. This was Vash's response to LH's claims.

There have been no counter claims of roles, so there's no reason to doubt the non random villager roles.

....god damn it, I finally make a high effort post and the WOLVES SURRENDERED?! FML

FYI my literal only play today (had vash not gotten to me) was claiming judge, pointing to you using the power "incorrectly" by posting publicly on a day where a lynch was all but guaranteed as a way to get on everyone's good side.

 

[Holly]

I never finished that post, I'd been working on it for the last half hour or more trying to make sure I had everything right, and I was going to end by voting you and suggesting Local next. As for that public post, I REALLY wanted an opportunity to RP and finally had it.

 

[Local Hero]

Instigators not following through with the plan on day 2.

 

[A Punched Face]

FYI my literal only play today (had vash not gotten to me) was claiming judge, pointing to you using the power "incorrectly" by posting publicly on a day where a lynch was all but guaranteed as a way to get on everyone's good side.

Also to follow up here because I didn't complete my thought:

Why I waited to reveal: the town is very easily distracted (as evident by previous games) and I didn't want a split vote when every single vote counted that time.

 

[Ben]

That was a very distrusting game!

That first day could have gone a lot worse if you guys had latched on to me instead of Raine early on. Vash's seeing only told you that one of us killed someone, but I guess that's where Kelly saved it and doubled down.

I hinted at, then came out with my boring role so early because I truly figured it best used as an early night save. We had a lot of role claims by then, so Flagging one of them onto me would save their useful role.

Good job, team. Enjoy life in the woods, wolves.

 

[Ants!]

Funny because we’re constantly being told that we trust role claims and seer claims too much.

 

[A Punched Face]

That was a very distrusting game!

That first day could have gone a lot worse if you guys had latched on to me instead of Raine early on. Vash's seeing only told you that one of us killed someone, but I guess that's where Kelly saved it and doubled down.

I hinted at, then came out with my boring role so early because I truly figured it best used as an early night save. We had a lot of role claims by then, so Flagging one of them onto me would save their useful role.

Good job, team. Enjoy life in the woods, wolves.

I had suggested that counterclaiming your "Farmer" claim could be done, saying you did it to hide a more powerful role and avoid being a target. Pretty easy to hide in a role with no power.

 

[TD]

Funny because we’re constantly being told that we trust role claims and seer claims too much.

Because nobody lies...

Yet.

 

[Ants!]

Because nobody lies...

Yet.

That’s funny too, because at one point you said it was bold of me to believe Vash and Kelly. But like dude, it’s how this community has played the game every time so far, and the town just keeps winning. Felt more obvious/easy than bold to me.

 

[Tubby23]

Because nobody lies...

Yet.

I was

 

[Ants!]

If people get better and lying and do it more, I’ll become less trustful in the games. But so far they haven’t.

 

[TD]

That’s funny too, because at one point you said it was bold of me to believe Vash and Kelly. But like dude, it’s how this community has played the game every time so far, and the town just keeps winning. Felt more obvious/easy than bold to me.

Yeah, you're right.

Did I feel it was bold? Yeah, but I've come to realize that I play these games very different.

Zell also keeps saying that the wolves need to lie more aggressively Day 1 and I was like - is it finally happening!? No. No it was not.

I basically assume that everyone is lying until I have proof that they are innocent.

...which ironically turns me into suspicious like every single game.

 

[TD]

I was

Yup - but it also needs to be a team effort from all 4 wolves.

 

[Local Hero]

Zell also keeps saying that the wolves need to lie more aggressively Day 1 and I was like - is it finally happening!? No. No it was not.

Not saying it wasn't possible, but not being able to communicate and nearly every townie making early and strong role reveals made this hard

 

[TD]

Not saying it wasn't possible, but not being able to communicate and nearly every townie making early and strong role reveals made this hard

So the wolves also make strong reveals.

Not being able to communicate does suck though.

 

[Local Hero]

Easy for you to say!

 

[TD]

Easy for you to say!

Not being critical - I'm trying to help.

 

[Local Hero]

Where were you 2 days ago

 

[Fool's Requiem]

If people get better and lying and do it more, I’ll become less trustful in the games. But so far they haven’t.

I'm not good at that.

 

[TD]

Where were you 2 days ago

In the dead thread.

 

[Tubby23]

@Local Hero sorry I voted for you btw

 

[Ants!]

Honestly, having a wolf seer makes false claiming a townie seer super easy. The townies can just see aura or teams or whether one from two people might possibly have killed. The wolf seer learns the exact role.

The problem is the wolves see a seer, they get excited and kill that person instead of saying “i checked that person last night, they’re good”. You gain the townie seers trust, and some of the more gullible townies too.

Several games back, Raine was a wolf and she made a very early role claim of spirit seer saying she checked me and one other person and we both came back blue, so I believed her for a very long time until the last day of the game.

 

[Local Hero]

Honestly, having a wolf seer makes false claiming a townie seer super easy. The townies can just see aura or teams or whether one from two people might possibly have killed. The wolf seer learns the exact role.

The problem is the wolves see a seer, they get excited and kill that person instead of saying “i checked that person last night, they’re good”. You gain the townie seers trust, and some of the more gullible townies too.

Several games back, Raine was a wolf and she made a very early role claim of spirit seer saying she checked me and one other person and we both came back blue, so I believed her for a very long time until the last day of the game.

I asked a question in the wolf chat that I think would be a good idea. The wolf seer can't actually vote if they have the seer role. I think it would be interesting if the Wolf seer shows blue to kill check (still evil aura)

I'm sure Zell will not approve

 

[TD]

Raine was a wolf and she made a very early role claim of spirit seer saying she checked me and one other person and we both came back blue, so I believed her for a very long time until the last day of the game.

That was also the game that Alu the Sorceror was posing as the Aura Seer and it was some of the best Aura Seer play I've seen. Ironically from a wolf.

The wolves were doing so well until...

 

[Ants!]

I asked a question in the wolf chat that I think would be a good idea. The wolf seer can't actually vote if they have the seer role. I think it would be interesting if the Wolf seer shows blue to kill check (still evil aura)

I'm sure Zell will not approve

When I was wolf seer in zells first game, I couldn’t vote for wolf kill with the other wolves. I still got found out by detective kut and witch cole, though.

 

[Zell 17]

I asked a question in the wolf chat that I think would be a good idea. The wolf seer can't actually vote if they have the seer role. I think it would be interesting if the Wolf seer shows blue to kill check (still evil aura)

I'm sure Zell will not approve

Well, the following question would then be, what if only one wolf votes to kill? Should 3/4 wolves then show blue?

Legitimately asking

 

[Local Hero]

Well, the following question would then be, what if only one wolf votes to kill? Should 3/4 wolves then show blue?

Legitimately asking

Just the seer wolf. He's busy looking into his divination ball

 

[Zell 17]

Yeah I'm okay with that. Adds a little uncertainty to Spirit Seer.

 

[Zell 17]

Also let's the Wolf Seer hang on a little bit which helps the wolves

 

[Zell 17]

One thing I've noticed is the towns and wolves, as a collective, are quite good at piecing together who is what role pretty early on.

But one role above all others needs to figure out roles quickly: The solo killer. And I haven't seen anybody yet able to quickly piece together who is who. And of course you are on your own.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I like the idea of the Wolf Seer hiding from the Spirit Seer as long as they still show up as evil with the Aura Seer.

 

[Local Hero]

One thing I've noticed is the towns and wolves, as a collective, are quite good at piecing together who is what role pretty early on.

But one role above all others needs to figure out roles quickly: The solo killer. And I haven't seen anybody yet able to quickly piece together who is who. And of course you are on your own.

I tried to do that and @TD made fun of me in the dead thread

 

[TD]

I tried to do that and @TD made fun of me in the dead thread

But... you weren't the RK?

 

[Local Hero]

I misread what Zell said. Nevermind lol

 

[Zell 17]

Really the coordination between wolves and RK should look like:

RK takes out 100% confirmed villagers. Only aura seer claims, people declared good by only aura seer, etc.
Wolves try to take out powerful, unclaimed villagers or powerful disputed villagers

 

[TD]

You mean the RK shouldn't just feast on crispy wolf for dinner?

 

[Benzine]

Boooo I wanted to come in and tell you local was bad and throw rocks at Alu. It’s 547am and normally I’d nap some more but I wanted to murder. This is fucken bullshit!

 

[A Punched Face]

Yeah I'm okay with that. Adds a little uncertainty to Spirit Seer.

I think the distinction that might work is:

If you're forced to not vote with the wolves until you resign your powers, you don't show as red until you resign your powers.

 

[TD]

There he is!

 

[Zell 17]

I think the distinction that might work is:

If you're forced to not vote with the wolves until you resign your powers, you don't show as red until you resign your powers.

Yeah obviously once the wolf seer resigns they are a "regular werewolf" and would show red. That eliminates some endgame problems too.

 

[A Punched Face]

Yeah obviously once the wolf seer resigns they are a "regular werewolf" and would show red. That eliminates some endgame problems too.

Easier to counter a double claim as well: Spirit Seer sees blue, Aura sees Evil...someone must be lying somewhere, pit them against each other!

 

[Zell 17]

I went ahead and updated the dictionary so from now on Wolf Seer = blue. Also from now on Instigator Aura = Good. They need to be out there faking some info and shit.

 

[A Punched Face]

I want a townie with an evil aura to really fuck with things.

The Town Asshole - wins with the village, but steals a random villager power for the night phase.

 

[Jawneh]

An FYI for everyone, Tubby and I, henceforth be known as Jawbby, got everyone's roles pinned down before the end of day 1. Sadly that information didn't do us much good and at least personally hindered my game. Can't do much with knowing everything when you can't also control things.

 

[Jawneh]

Instigators not following through with the plan on day 2.

Sadly at that point the original plan was a bust as people were biting way more on your than Vash. Having just one person vote Vash instead of me was basically impossible at that point, so getting more people to vote you even without your x2 was a slightly better idea. And we did get Holly lol.

 

[Ants!]

One thing I've noticed is the towns and wolves, as a collective, are quite good at piecing together who is what role pretty early on.

But one role above all others needs to figure out roles quickly: The solo killer. And I haven't seen anybody yet able to quickly piece together who is who. And of course you are on your own.

Good point. Maybe something more to help the RK out? Like a very nerfed seer-type thing, or the ability to make their aura show Good on nights they don’t kill, or something. If they have an ability that collects info on other players it could be randomized. Things like that.

 

[TD]

While I think a seer type ability for the RK would be a bit much - if it were added, something like the blind wolf mechanic would be interesting.

 

[Ants!]

Maybe some way to mimic another townie that’s not a seer, or to mask their kill like the confusion wolf but can see the role of the person they killed, or some ability where they have to be killed or lynched twice. Just spitballing ideas.

 

[canadaguy]

I do remember playing wolf back in the day and there was some sort of wolf that would take two seer checks. Like a camouflage or something