Zell Wolf GWF Wolf - Zell's Game 5 Night 3 / Day 3

[VashTheStampede]

Given the fact that vash seems more concerned about the RK and is voting for Kelly, my assumption is RK

Well either way it's gonna be tight.

If he's the RK we have no margin for error starting tomorrow, depending on a certain someone's role.

If he's a wolf, tonight could be horrific.

 

[A Punched Face]

He wouldn't know for sure either way though. Red lady just dies and doesn't get the info on who either way I believe.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Either way, I feel very good about being able to make up for my giant fuck-up in the last game I played. If the town can just stick with me.

 

[Zell 17]

Votes to lynch (5 required):

Smacktard - 7 (VashTheStampede, Local Hero, TD, Alu, Christina, Cole, shortkut)
TD - 2 (Smacktard, Ben)

No vote - 1 (Jawneh)

Votes to skip (9 required):

Skip - 2 (Ben, Cole)

No vote - 8 (Alu, Christina, Jawneh, Local Hero, shortkut, Smacktard, TD, VashTheStampede)

 

[Smacktard]

Alright, I typed up a huge effort post with evidence, but I don't want to give it all away at once. Let's start off simple:

Currently, seven people have voted for me -- four of them at the immediate start of the day. This either means that:

1. Wolves are currently voting for me, or
2. I'm a wolf, and the village has orchestrated a perfect vote 6/6 villager + 1 vote, and the remaining two people who aren't myself -- Ben, and Jawneh, along with someone currently voting for me -- must also be wolves.

So which is it? Ben, Jawneh, are we all wolves together?

 

[shortkut]

Well either way it's gonna be tight.

If he's the RK we have no margin for error starting tomorrow, depending on a certain someone's role.

If he's a wolf, tonight could be horrific.

What’s the count for tomorrow after this presuming Kelly is the RK and dies? Someone check my match

The witch probably takes out TD, leaving 3 wolves and 4 townies (assuming the wolves get a kill. Cupid counts as a townie now)

 

[VashTheStampede]

With evidence like this, wolves would likely vote for you either way. Abandoning you.

 

[VashTheStampede]

What’s the count for tomorrow after this presuming Kelly is the RK and dies? Someone check my match

The witch probably takes out TD, leaving 3 wolves and 4 townies (assuming the wolves get a kill. Cupid counts as a townie now)

Can the witch kill again? I thought they had a kill and a protect and the kill is gone?

 

[Cole]

Alright, I typed up a huge effort post with evidence, but I don't want to give it all away at once. Let's start off simple:

Currently, seven people have voted for me -- four of them at the immediate start of the day. This either means that:

1. Wolves are currently voting for me, or
2. I'm a wolf, and the village has orchestrated a perfect vote 6/6 villager + 1 vote, and the remaining two people who aren't myself -- Ben, and Jawneh, along with someone currently voting for me -- must also be wolves.

So which is it? Ben, Jawneh, are we all wolves together?

I mean. that's not that hard to accept.

fun fact: there is more than one wolf in the town whether you are or aren't.

it's not hard to "orchestrate" a vote for someone that another player has outed as a wolf. TD would have died yesterday too if not for shadow.

but I do appreciate the swerve off responding to my post.

 

[Smacktard]

Let's reveal one wolf, too:
Wolf #3: Christina OR Vash (Cupid couple)

These two have to play with VERY thin margins to win together as a couple. That means they have to make sure, for the entire game, that they stay just outside of the 2:1 townie:wolf ratio. This is why they're going after townies -- to narrow the margin. This is why they're a solid voting block coming after me with false claims. This is why they're both voting for me. Wolves, the next day they will be coming for you.

This is why Vash did NOT revive any townies, if he really IS a medium.

Here's the really fun part: @Zell 17 Please confirm that the medium can revive ANY member on the townie team.

WHY?

It's simply NOT in Vash's interest to revive any townies. That's why he's keeping them dead, and editorializing their claims: so that he can keep killing townies, keep the townie:wolf margins slim, and ultimately try to eke out a victory with Christina.

 

[Cole]

With evidence like this, wolves would likely vote for you either way. Abandoning you.

also this. the wolves would be silly not to vote for you. or they've outed themselves.

 

[Smacktard]

I mean. that's not that hard to accept.

fun fact: there is more than one wolf in the town whether you are or aren't.

it's not hard to "orchestrate" a vote for someone that another player has outed as a wolf. TD would have died yesterday too if not for shadow.

but I do appreciate the swerve off responding to my post.

I'll get to your post in a minute, don't fret.

 

[Cole]

This is why Vash did NOT revive any townies, if he really IS a medium.

the medium doesn't revive until the start of the next phase, or the end of the current phase, I forget. it's not immediate. which means we won't even know if someone was revived until the end of the phase or start of the next.

if I was medium, I also would have waited until last night to sort out the roles before making a decision.

if someone isn't revived the next chance, then id be inclined to believe you.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Here's the really fun part: @Zell 17 Please confirm that the medium can revive ANY member on the townie team.

Or he could confirm the arguments we had where I was annoyed that he wouldn't let me revive Tubby because he LOOKS like a wolf.

Or how he wouldn't let me revive Ants to get a Red Lady kill last night even though the order of actions should have allowed it before he edited it.

 

[Smacktard]

the medium doesn't revive until the start of the next phase, or the end of the current phase, I forget. it's not immediate. which means we won't even know if someone was revived until the end of the phase or start of the next.

if I was medium, I also would have waited until last night to sort out the roles before making a decision.

if someone isn't revived the next chance, then id be inclined to believe you.

Uh... why wouldn't he revive Ants? We KNEW Ants' role, Ants would be another boon for the town, and could attempt to determine another wolf. It would be THE objectively best play.

 

[Smacktard]

Or he could confirm the arguments we had where I was annoyed that he wouldn't let me revive Tubby because he LOOKS like a wolf.

Or how he wouldn't let me revive Ants to get a Red Lady kill last night even though the order of actions should have allowed it before he edited it.

Vash, Ants was killed before last night. If you were telling the truth, you ought to have been able to resurrect him last night.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Uh... why wouldn't he revive Ants? We KNEW Ants' role, Ants would be another boon for the town, and could attempt to determine another wolf. It would be THE objectively best play.

I was waiting for a more powerful role instead of just a suicide bomber. But I still tried last night.

 

[Cole]

Uh... why wouldn't he revive Ants? We KNEW Ants' role, Ants would be another boon for the town, and could attempt to determine another wolf. It would be THE objectively best play.

no it wouldn't.

ants can't confirm another wolf without dying. all he can to safely is clear people. why would he waste a revive on someone just to have them die again?

 

[Cole]

I was waiting for a more powerful role instead of just a suicide bomber. But I still tried last night.

almost like we just said the same thing!

 

[VashTheStampede]

almost like we just said the same thing!

 

[VashTheStampede]

Vash, Ants was killed before last night. If you were telling the truth, you ought to have been able to resurrect him last night.

You'll understand when you talk to David Hasselhoff.

It's a Dead Thread thing.

 

[Smacktard]

no it wouldn't.

ants can't confirm another wolf without dying. all he can to safely is clear people. why would he waste a revive on someone just to have them the again?

He can say in the thread "Okay I'm going to check this person next." before he does it. He can also confer with the medium after he dies.

Or still, Vash could've revived the flower child, the spirit seer, or the red lady. All are good targets, and still he chose to revive none of them, balancing out the villager:wolf margins.

We know there aren't any stack killers, so if he truly believes I'm RK, why wouldn't he want to try to drop a wolf today and balance the game in the town's favor?

 

[Zell 17]

Let's reveal one wolf, too:
Wolf #3: Christina OR Vash (Cupid couple)

These two have to play with VERY thin margins to win together as a couple. That means they have to make sure, for the entire game, that they stay just outside of the 2:1 townie:wolf ratio. This is why they're going after townies -- to narrow the margin. This is why they're a solid voting block coming after me with false claims. This is why they're both voting for me. Wolves, the next day they will be coming for you.

This is why Vash did NOT revive any townies, if he really IS a medium.

Here's the really fun part: @Zell 17 Please confirm that the medium can revive ANY member on the townie team.

WHY?

It's simply NOT in Vash's interest to revive any townies. That's why he's keeping them dead, and editorializing their claims: so that he can keep killing townies, keep the townie:wolf margins slim, and ultimately try to eke out a victory with Christina.

Medium can revive anyone who dies and their role is revealed as belonging to the village team. For example in game 3 Alu was the aura seer killed by the wolves night 1, and Benzine revived him the following night.

 

[VashTheStampede]

We know there aren't any stack killers, so if he truly believes I'm RK, why wouldn't he want to try to drop a wolf today and balance the game in the town's favor?

Because if you're the RK then you could kill a bunch of people.

If you're not, I'm killing a wolf.

Win/win.

 

[VashTheStampede]

How do we know there's no stack killer?

 

[Cole]

He can say in the thread "Okay I'm going to check this person next." before he does it. He can also confer with the medium after he dies.

Or still, Vash could've revived the flower child, the spirit seer, or the red lady. All are good targets, and still he chose to revive none of them, balancing out the villager:wolf margins.

We know there aren't any stack killers, so if he truly believes I'm RK, why wouldn't he want to try to drop a wolf today and balance the game in the town's favor?

why are you advocating for a loss of a townie?

your strategy here is to revive someone just to have him suicide for us? the flower child is probably the least powerful role in the game.

and let's be real, the person who has the spirit seer role isn't exactly the most needed person in any given wolf game.

and EVEN STILL, since it wouldn't ever have been Ants, he needed more information to decide who to revive, and he only got that at the end of the last day phase.

and I would love to hear how you know there isn't a stack killer.

 

[Smacktard]

How can anyone read stuff like this and still support Vash's claim. The wolf alliance has so many holes in their stories that

Because if you're the RK then you could kill a bunch of people.

If you're not, I'm killing a wolf.

Win/win.

Except no.

How do we know there's no stack killer?

Benzine (REMINDER EVERYONE: BENZINE IS GOOD DOCTOR) confirmed Tommy was targetted

I don't know how more clearly I can spell it out for everyone:
If I die, that brings the townies down to 5:4. If the RK is dead, then wolves win automatically tonight when they vote to kill a townie.

So if Vash is pro-town, he'd be pro-resurrecting, pro-voting off a basically confirmed wolf (TD). But he's not. He's pro-partner (aka Christina).

@Cole What questions did you want me to answer? I'm having trouble finding them.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I've been calling TD sus before calling TD sus was in vogue. Day 1. To his face. Didn't see you helping me out then.

 

[Smacktard]

why are you advocating for a loss of a townie?

Advocating in FAVOR of bringing a townie back to life is... advocating for the loss of a townie? What kind of 1984-tier doublespeak is this bullshit? Or are you saying I'm saying we should vote off Vash tonight? Because no, I still think we should vote off TD and swing the game back in townies' favor.

your strategy here is to revive someone just to have him suicide for us?

1. Bolsters town numbers.
2. Uhhhh if he announces who he's targetting before he does it and then dies, it's a guaranteed irrefutable lynch???

the flower child is probably the least powerful role in the game.

Although Vash could never have known the witch would pull a boner (hehe) and target a townie, why wait so long to revive?

and I would love to hear how you know there isn't a stack killer.

Again: Benzine (WHO, AGAIN, CONFIRMED DOCTOR) said Tommy was attacked, ergo there's no Arsonist, Alchemist, or Illusionist. There is either a Serial Killer or a Corruptor. I suppose it's possible there's a serial killer who stacks kills most nights but chose a single night to try a (failed) kill.

Or, yknow, like I've been saying: Vash is playing both sides because he's allied with a wolf.

 

[shortkut]

My favorite part of today is Kelly’s so ridiculously digging his own grave that Cole, who was apathetic about the entire game, cannot help himself but call him out

 

[Smacktard]

I've been calling TD sus before calling TD sus was in vogue. Day 1. To his face. Didn't see you helping me out then.

Soooo you only changed your mind about TD after his role was confirmed to the town? And now you're not bothering to vote for him, but instead likely give the wolves the win tonight? lol. lmao, even.

 

[Smacktard]

My favorite part of today is Kelly’s so ridiculously digging his own grave that Cole, who was apathetic about the entire game, cannot help himself but call him out

Please point out a single shred of evidence in which I contradicted myself. Name a single thing that doesn't make sense about my claims.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Soooo you only changed your mind about TD after his role was confirmed to the town? And now you're not bothering to vote for him, but instead likely give the wolves the win tonight? lol. lmao, even.

When did I change my mind?

I voted for him yesterday.

I was presented with evidence against you.

Where's the logical fallacy?

And where is that real Medium?

 

[Smacktard]

And where is that real Medium?

I never said you're not the real medium. I said you're playing your cards really stupidly by trying to win as a couple, and you're going to cost the town a win again. But at least Christina will notch a wolf win, I guess.

Can someone please count how many players will be left after I'm killed today and a townie is killed tonight? Because there's your wolf win.

 

[Cole]

How can anyone read stuff like this and still support Vash's claim. The wolf alliance has so many holes in their stories that

Except no.

Benzine (REMINDER EVERYONE: BENZINE IS GOOD DOCTOR) confirmed Tommy was targetted

I don't know how more clearly I can spell it out for everyone:
If I die, that brings the townies down to 5:4. If the RK is dead, then wolves win automatically tonight when they vote to kill a townie.

So if Vash is pro-town, he'd be pro-resurrecting, pro-voting off a basically confirmed wolf (TD). But he's not. He's pro-partner (aka Christina).

@Cole What questions did you want me to answer? I'm having trouble finding them.

just because he's confirmed good doctor doesn't mean he wasn't lying. I lie as a townie all the time. even when I said I try not to lie.

Advocating in FAVOR of bringing a townie back to life is... advocating for the loss of a townie? What kind of 1984-tier doublespeak is this bullshit? Or are you saying I'm saying we should vote off Vash tonight? Because no, I still think we should vote off TD and swing the game back in townies' favor.

using the very powerful medium ability, gone off the table, just to revive someone that then dies again. are you EVEN PLAYING?

1. Bolsters town numbers.
2. Uhhhh if he announces who he's targetting before he does it and then dies, it's a guaranteed irrefutable lynch???

at the cost of another townie.

Again: Benzine (WHO, AGAIN, CONFIRMED DOCTOR) said Tommy was attacked, ergo there's no Arsonist, Alchemist, or Illusionist. There is either a Serial Killer or a Corruptor. I suppose it's possible there's a serial killer who stacks kills most nights but chose a single night to try a (failed) kill.

Or, yknow, like I've been saying: Vash is playing both sides because he's allied with a wolf.

or he lied.

this is getting boring again.

 

[Cole]

Please point out a single shred of evidence in which I contradicted myself. Name a single thing that doesn't make sense about my claims.

calling into question Vash because he didn't waste his revive on a role that would likely just die again in order to give us any real information makes less sense than asking for change in a penny.

 

[Smacktard]

just because he's confirmed good doctor doesn't mean he wasn't lying. I lie as a townie all the time. even when I said I try not to lie.

Can you please explain what ONE tangible benefit would be of Benzine lying about Tommy being targeted by SK? Explain why he would dupe the town like that please and jeopardize their win.

using the very powerful medium ability, gone off the table, just to revive someone that then dies again. are you EVEN PLAYING?

Uhhhh when the town outnumbers the wolves 2:1, a 1:1 trade for a wolf is very much in the town's favor. Or are you saying that trading a pawn for a rook is a bad investment lmao

at the cost of another townie.

Yeah, a townie who currently isn't even in the game, so moot point. Especially when you all play dumb, vote me off tonight, and lose when the wolves win the game tomorrow with a 8:4 ratio.

 

[shortkut]

Please point out a single shred of evidence in which I contradicted myself. Name a single thing that doesn't make sense about my claims.

I didn’t say you contradicted yourself, I said you dug your own grave

 

[Smacktard]

I didn’t say you contradicted yourself, I said you dug your own grave

Got it, so:

• big post = bad
• no contradictions = bad
• supporting claims with logical deduction and evidence = bad

 

[Zell 17]

Or are you saying that trading a pawn for a rook is a bad investment lmao

Hey, Ryan’s back!

 

[shortkut]

Got it, so:

• big post = bad
• no contradictions = bad
• supporting claims with logical deduction and evidence = bad

Cole and Vash were doing a great job picking your posts apart, they don’t need an echo. Notice how everyone else is silent? There’s a reason. Either your wolf buddies know you’re dead, or you’re most likely the RK and as such, wolves and townies both are better off without you. Otherwise TD would be dead already

 

[Cole]

Can you please explain what ONE tangible benefit would be of Benzine lying about Tommy being targeted by SK? Explain why he would dupe the town like that please and jeopardize their win.

sure. because he can. keeping the wolves off balance as a townie is part of the game. the random killer is as much a threat to wolves as he is to the town. if Benzine can convince the wolves (like you seem to be convinced) that there's no stack killer, advantage town. it's giving you quite the plausible deniability story to work off of, isn't it? and it's making you look guiltier by the second.

Uhhhh when the town outnumbers the wolves 2:1, a 1:1 trade for a wolf is very much in the town's favor. Or are you saying that trading a pawn for a rook is a bad investment lmao

no, it's not in favor of the town. any sacrifice of a townie in THIS version of wolf is a negative. but you don't seem to mind thst.

Yeah, a townie who currently isn't even in the game, so moot point. Especially when you all play dumb, vote me off tonight, and lose when the wolves win the game tomorrow with a 8:4 ratio.

it's not a moot point when you're encouraging the medium to waste the most valuable tool in this game lol

earlier today you were accusing Vash of being guilty for saying NOT to protect Ben. but now you're accusing him because he hasn't used his own ability?

 

[Ben]

Ben shouldn't have been protected, period. with no disrespect to Ben, in his first game, he's not exactly known "as a threat", he has one claimed piece of information and it's already out in the wild, he is no threat to the wolves.

Nah, this is probably true. I'm not at the level of you guys looking for Pepe Silvia over this shit. My knee-jerk reaction to revealing my role was to expect to get targeted, but should have realized logically there are bigger targets who still have active roles. But at the same time, they wouldn't have been able to do anything if jailed anyway, so me no longer having a power meant that didn't matter.

For the record, I did get jailed last night.

I won't have much time to read through here and criticize things until later, although I've provided the best information I can yesterday.

I'm still keeping my vote for @TD.

I would however implore the village to lynch me instead of @Smacktard if you are committed to taking out a townie. I still believe they're on the level, though I do wish TD had been checked last night. I already told you that TD was the Shadow Wolf so I won't be able to give any further information, but the Aura Seer can, and my being confirmed as Bell Ringer will at least prove that the TD side of this argument are the furries.

Oh, one other possibility I considered; What if our third random role is a Judge, who picked Tubby yesterday and that's why he got hanged? Zell's "if no one gets 6 votes no one gets lynched" and then the story we got didn't make it sound like the vote was tampered with and the wolves got their way. It sounded like no one decided but someone got hung anyway. If the judge had picked a wolf, they would have died at the end of the day yesterday. Also if Tubby was the Wolf Trickster to begin with but the person he picked didn't die yet, I think he'd still have shown up as the Wolf Trickster when he died. That doesn't immediately mean he's not a wolf.

 

[Cole]

Got it, so:

• big post = bad
• no contradictions = bad
• supporting claims with logical deduction and evidence = bad

none of your claims have either of those things.

 

[Cole]

Nah, this is probably true. I'm not at the level of you guys looking for Pepe Silvia over this shit. My knee-jerk reaction to revealing my role was to expect to get targeted, but should have realized logically there are bigger targets who still have active roles. But at the same time, they wouldn't have been able to do anything if jailed anyway, so me no longer having a power meant that didn't matter.

For the record, I did get jailed last night.

I won't have much time to read through here and criticize things until later, although I've provided the best information I can yesterday.

I'm still keeping my vote for @TD.

I would however implore the village to lynch me instead of @Smacktard if you are committed to taking out a townie. I still believe they're on the level, though I do wish TD had been checked last night. I already told you that TD was the Shadow Wolf so I won't be able to give any further information, but the Aura Seer can, and my being confirmed as Bell Ringer will at least prove that the TD side of this argument are the furries.

Oh, one other possibility I considered; What if our third random role is a Judge, who picked Tubby yesterday and that's why he got hanged? Zell's "if no one gets 6 votes no one gets lynched" and then the story we got didn't make it sound like the vote was tampered with and the wolves got their way. It sounded like no one decided but someone got hung anyway. If the judge had picked a wolf, they would have died at the end of the day yesterday. Also if Tubby was the Wolf Trickster to begin with but the person he picked didn't die yet, I think he'd still have shown up as the Wolf Trickster when he died. That doesn't immediately mean he's not a wolf.

weiiiiird hill to die on, man. very weird.

 

[Smacktard]

sure. because he can. keeping the wolves off balance as a townie is part of the game. the random killer is as much a threat to wolves as he is to the town. if Benzine can convince the wolves (like you seem to be convinced) that there's no stack killer, advantage town.

The stack killer endangers the town more than the wolves. If he falsely leads the town into thinking there's no stack killer, he puts the town at a huge disadvantage. Again, this play makes absolutely no fucking sense.

no, it's not in favor of the town. any sacrifice of a townie in THIS version of wolf is a negative. but you don't seem to mind thst.

Weird how the guy who says the game is extremely unbalanced in favor of the village suddenly says that a 1:1 trade for a wolf actually favors the wolves? lmao

it's not a moot point when you're encouraging the medium to waste the most valuable tool in this game lol

It kind of is a moot point when I'm voted off tonight and TD, Local, Christina, and (idk, Alu? just a hunch) kill another townie and win the game with 4:4 ratio (assuming SK is dead). But please explain why numbers aren't important in Day 3 when 0 wolves are dead and 6 townies are.

Cole, for the power player people make you out to be, you're playing this game really dumb.

 

[Smacktard]

or you’re most likely the RK and as such, wolves and townies both are better off without you. Otherwise TD would be dead already

If you truly believe I'm RK, why would you vote for me today? You want the wolves to win tonight?

Fuck it, there's no talking sense to any townies left, so I'd prefer to just get back to writing or gaming or something.
Vote Smacktard + skip.

Congrats to TD, Local, Christina, and (idk, maybe Alu?) on your win. Vash, you cost the town the game.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Vash, you cost the town the game.

 

[Cole]

It kind of is a moot point when I'm voted off tonight and TD, Local, Christina, and (idk, Alu? just a hunch) kill another townie and win the game with 4:4 ratio (assuming SK is dead). But please explain why numbers aren't important in Day 3 when 0 wolves are dead and 6 townies are.

Cole, for the power player people make you out to be, you're playing this game really dumb.

buddy I'm barely even PLAYING this game.

I've been asking to get killed for 3 days. but people keep making themselves such obvious targets, no one will bother killing me.

fine, I'm not Cupid, not sure where anyone got that from.

I'm the wolf seer, Smacktard, TD, shortkut are the others.

 

[shortkut]

If you truly believe I'm RK, why would you vote for me today? You want the wolves to win tonight?

Fuck it, there's no talking sense to any townies left, so I'd prefer to just get back to writing or gaming or something.
Vote Smacktard + skip.

Congrats to TD, Local, Christina, and (idk, maybe Alu?) on your win. Vash, you cost the town the game.

Because if you’re the serial killer you can take out multiple townies and wolves in one fell swoop