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FQ Wolf FQ Wolf Vol. 2 Discussion
- Thread starter Fire Queen
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It's a magical village!giving every townie a role is dumb too.
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This. Three or four big roles are good. A Seer that can identify people. A Protector role. A Vigilante role that can take anyone out at night. Maybe some person out for themselves.giving every townie a role is dumb too.
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I don't believe in the caste system. Everyone's equally unique in my magical utopia!
Anyways, I think it allows for a lot of creativity that we haven't quite seen unlocked yet. I'll give an example now that the (a?) priest is dead. If you are "random villager" priest it's too late to use this. The priest is provable by using water. So often times the priest can come out pretending to be an aura seer and call a bunch of people evil and generally stir shit up to force out evils. And if the shit they stir up ever flies in their face or if someone pushes them too much they can water someone.
Anyways, I think it allows for a lot of creativity that we haven't quite seen unlocked yet. I'll give an example now that the (a?) priest is dead. If you are "random villager" priest it's too late to use this. The priest is provable by using water. So often times the priest can come out pretending to be an aura seer and call a bunch of people evil and generally stir shit up to force out evils. And if the shit they stir up ever flies in their face or if someone pushes them too much they can water someone.
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Not always. The wolves know each other so they can vote in a block if needed or try to subtly divert suspicions from their team
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I agree that everyone having a role in forum wolf games is a bit over the top, especially if you have a bunch that can protect others.
However, I would worry about people becoming expendible assets because they're without a role.
At the very least, I don't think roles should overlap in their abilities (unless they're on different teams), there shouldn't be multiple of a single role, and there can't be too much synergy. In the current game, there's a Medium and a Doctor. Assuming you keep the Doctor alive and a secret, the Medium can revive a townie and the Doctor can then keep that player alive and everyone now knows that one revived player is a townie.
Or you make it so that every ability has a usage cap. Amogus mods typically have a cap for many abilities, because an engineer being able to auto fix sabotages multiple times is pretty unfair to imposters.
I don't really think wolves need roles outside of maybe an Alpha wolf or something. Wolves already have multiple abilities. They know who the wolves are (obviously), can communicate with them endlessly (unless they die), and can kill who they want (assuming the kills are agreed upon).
However, I would worry about people becoming expendible assets because they're without a role.
At the very least, I don't think roles should overlap in their abilities (unless they're on different teams), there shouldn't be multiple of a single role, and there can't be too much synergy. In the current game, there's a Medium and a Doctor. Assuming you keep the Doctor alive and a secret, the Medium can revive a townie and the Doctor can then keep that player alive and everyone now knows that one revived player is a townie.
Or you make it so that every ability has a usage cap. Amogus mods typically have a cap for many abilities, because an engineer being able to auto fix sabotages multiple times is pretty unfair to imposters.
I don't really think wolves need roles outside of maybe an Alpha wolf or something. Wolves already have multiple abilities. They know who the wolves are (obviously), can communicate with them endlessly (unless they die), and can kill who they want (assuming the kills are agreed upon).
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So for the setup we have now the town wins around 65% of the time. That's talking over hundreds of thousands of games. This town is a little less experienced with everyone having roles so I don't expect it to be THAT easy. But the town definitely has the advantage. I mean look at how the game is going so far, 2 evils are dead and the one dead villager was basically a complete suicide.
okay, I'm not trying to sound arrogant. but two evils are dead becsuse of a chain of events I started. Holly only outed herself because the rules were confusing and she mistakenly identified me.
none of that would've happened.
I think past numbers are statistically irrelevant when it depends heavily on who is playing and how familiar they are.
no wolf game, no matter the structure, is ever going to be 50/50. as Vash put it, asymmetric balance. town has the numbers, wolves have the knowledge. without roles at all, the wolves have a bit of an advantage. with a few of the right roles for the town, it gets the balance closer and I think that's the sweet spot.
giving everyone a role just makes the game unnecessarily convoluted.
it takes it from less of a skill game of deduction, to an exact science like what is happening in your games.
some members of the town SHOULD feel helpless and along for the ride.
not to mention when you're playing with a (roughly) same group of people, the balance swings drastically.
what if some one like shortkut, or you, or myself had a super powerful townie role, and the wolves kill us night 1 "just because it's shortkut", the entire game shifts heavily in their favor.
if the wolves kill me, they are guaranteed to kill a role.
"well someone could protect you because you're valuable"
and the wolves just have a super kill they can wipe me AND some one else out night 1.
statistics don't mean much if the same core of people are in every game
I have a historically high success rate in wolf games, and that's from past experiences
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I cant really discuss further without affecting the current game. But we can afterwards.
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I’d like to think I played a role by investigating ants
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Teamwork!
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I think @Fool's Requiem prefers he/him pronouns
I’d like to think I played a role by investigating ants
yeah, I'm not saying it was just me. I'm just saying zell thinking "look at how this game is going" as evidence the wolves don't have an advantage is silly.
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you shouldn't be so hard on yourself. I made a mistake regarding rules earlier in the thread that effectively lead to the alliance between shortkut and I.
you making the mistake about the solo witch looped you in.
and BY OUR POWERS COMBINED
we killed two enemies of the town.
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I have a crazy theory for the (so far) two primary hosts who seem to want to host multiple games @Fire Queen and @Zell 17
Right now, both of you have loosely prohibited out of thread discussion of a wolf game via an honor system. But really, there's no way to confirm people aren't doing it.
But why is it an issue is my theory? If we're working on an honor system anyway, all you have to say is "you can discuss with players out side the thread, but please don't share screenshots or direct quotes from role PMs from the host", it's still the honor system anyway, but it enhances the game. I can talk to whoever I want under the knowledge that it's possible I'm being scammed.
But if this were a "real event" with werewolves attacking our town, (lets say for the current game) I would 100% set up a meeting at shortkuts house with myself and Holly so we can discuss potential plans. We'd all be understood that the others COULD be playing us, but if there's trust it could work.
The argument AGAINST could be that it tilts the advantage over to the town, and that's true. But if a wolf is flying well under the radar and someone is convinced they're a townie, they could gain a LOT of intel. Both teams could benefit from this.
Right now, both of you have loosely prohibited out of thread discussion of a wolf game via an honor system. But really, there's no way to confirm people aren't doing it.
But why is it an issue is my theory? If we're working on an honor system anyway, all you have to say is "you can discuss with players out side the thread, but please don't share screenshots or direct quotes from role PMs from the host", it's still the honor system anyway, but it enhances the game. I can talk to whoever I want under the knowledge that it's possible I'm being scammed.
But if this were a "real event" with werewolves attacking our town, (lets say for the current game) I would 100% set up a meeting at shortkuts house with myself and Holly so we can discuss potential plans. We'd all be understood that the others COULD be playing us, but if there's trust it could work.
The argument AGAINST could be that it tilts the advantage over to the town, and that's true. But if a wolf is flying well under the radar and someone is convinced they're a townie, they could gain a LOT of intel. Both teams could benefit from this.
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My issue (besides balance, which would push the already considerable town advantage higher) is that it would inevitably lead to one strong player essentially being able to play multiple roles by telling other players what to do. Everybody's got to do their own homework here, even if collaboration would increase the scores.
Of course, plans can still be made in public, but the downsides are obvious.
Of course, plans can still be made in public, but the downsides are obvious.
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Yeah I'm kinda also in favor of the PM thing. There's no guarantee a Wolf didn't get someone to trust them and let them in to infiltrate and start taking out key roles in the game. I'm sure it's happened in some of the old Wolf games on the OG forum. You can always be being lied to. In fact it's safe to assume everyone is lying.
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It allows villagers who are confirmed (say, those who have been revived or gunner/priest who has shot) to conspire without fear. They would become as strong as the strongest player in that group.
Weaker players need to be able to stand on their own and potentially make mistakes.
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I disagree with this but will respect it
VashTheStampede
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I think you just make your own thread
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so, couple things. first, i finally updated the first post with all of our prospective players. there are still no plans to start any earlier than July 28, so there is still plenty of time for others to join and for zell's game to wrap up.
second, here's the tradeoff. my games will always have an explicit No Role Claiming rule, of course, but i can't and don't want to police anything happening in DMs. i think we can all follow the No Screenshotting honor system. if you get played, you get played. them's the breaks.
my thing is that part of the fun of wolf games is that sometimes you can't do anything with information until after you lose a resource. Player A claiming Seer and accusing Player B of being a wolf is boring. Player A being suspicious of Player B from a very early stage and then getting killed revealing their identity as the Seer makes for a much more compelling and high-stakes game
that said i might also add some wolf unique roles to adjust for some balance. i might borrow Shaman, we'll see
second, here's the tradeoff. my games will always have an explicit No Role Claiming rule, of course, but i can't and don't want to police anything happening in DMs. i think we can all follow the No Screenshotting honor system. if you get played, you get played. them's the breaks.
my thing is that part of the fun of wolf games is that sometimes you can't do anything with information until after you lose a resource. Player A claiming Seer and accusing Player B of being a wolf is boring. Player A being suspicious of Player B from a very early stage and then getting killed revealing their identity as the Seer makes for a much more compelling and high-stakes game
that said i might also add some wolf unique roles to adjust for some balance. i might borrow Shaman, we'll see
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Please play? I missed sign ups for the other one and want the chance to play on the same team as you.
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Inactivity is a clear sign you’re a wolf trying to lay low and avoid suspicion
VashTheStampede
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