Sensitive First Presidential Debate of 2024

[Ancle Suck]

He could have used a lot more than coke. He needed a cocktail to set him straight.



Can’t get caught with drugs if you hurry up and do ‘em all.

 

[Smacktard]

Many Dems thought of Biden as a one term president to right the ship. A lot of people figured someone else would emerge. But that didn't happen!

The problem is that Biden never resigned himself to being a one-term candidate. How can you have people emerge as potential successors when the current incumbent clearly plans to run again?

It's pointless to have a deep and heated discussion about replacing Biden before it looks like that's what the Powers That Be are going to do.

The fact that WE are already talking about a possible replacement for Biden means that the Dem establishment is probably already talking about it as well. Just look at the complete 180 that many left- and center-leaning sites have done in the past 24 hours. They went from defending Biden's gaffes as misrepresentations or fake news and now many of these same news orgs are calling for him to be replaced. It's a possibility. It's a possibility that IS being discussed at this moment. And IMO it's something that NEEDS to happen for Dems to have any shot at winning the Presidency this time around, optics be damned.

 

[Quagmire]

 

[Smacktard]

Biden's administration has done A LOT of good. To sweep all of that aside because he fumbles a little while talking just seems asinine. Look at the record. Look at the policies. That's what you're voting for. Not if they're a good speaker.

None of that good matters to the election cycle if Biden doesn't secure enough votes because his performance at the debates was abysmal. Regardless of whatever legislation and policies he helped pass, he did not project the image of a leader who is lucid and in control.

I would pay to see “regular” people debate candidates. That’s what the debates should have… a whole segment where they have to answer to the American people before the polls. Not those pansy ass lines of approved and cherry-picked audience submitted questions.

If you've ever listened to C-Span call-ins, you'd know how terrifying an idea that would be. I can just imagine it now:
"So-called 'President Biden', I got a question for you: howcome your son Hunter Biden ain't in jail for doing a quid-pro-quo with Ukraine and trafficking cocaine drugs to Zelenskyy?"

 

[Ants!]

The problem is that Biden never resigned himself to being a one-term candidate. How can you have people emerge as potential successors when the current incumbent clearly plans to run again?

The fact that WE are already talking about a possible replacement for Biden means that the Dem establishment is probably already talking about it as well. Just look at the complete 180 that many left- and center-leaning sites have done in the past 24 hours. They went from defending Biden's gaffes as misrepresentations or fake news and now many of these same news orgs are calling for him to be replaced. It's a possibility. It's a possibility that IS being discussed at this moment. And IMO it's something that NEEDS to happen for Dems to have any shot at winning the Presidency this time around, optics be damned.

Which means absolutely nothing.

 

[Smacktard]

Which means absolutely nothing.

You legitimately do not believe that news organizations influence political policy and/or prime their readers for political shifts?

ok

 

[Ants!]

You legitimately do not believe that news organizations influence political policy and/or prime their readers for political shifts?

ok

Did I say that? I mean that until there is some ACTUAL MOVEMENT on this, it's just conjecture. News organizations exist for profit and getting people to tune in however they can. Until this becomes a real thing, it's just words. "Words are wind".

 

[Avenger]

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY

None of that good matters to the election cycle if Biden doesn't secure enough votes because his performance at the debates was abysmal. Regardless of whatever legislation and policies he helped pass, he did not project the image of a leader who is lucid and in control.

Sure. He had a very off day. But one day shouldn't destroy a whole foundation of tangible wins. furthermore, the alternative also doesn't project lucid or in control ever and is systematically and openly saying he wants to destroy this country.

If you've ever listened to C-Span call-ins, you'd know how terrifying an idea that would be. I can just imagine it now:
"So-called 'President Biden', I got a question for you: howcome your son Hunter Biden ain't in jail for doing a quid-pro-quo with Ukraine and trafficking cocaine drugs to Zelenskyy?"

Anyone that calls into c-span regardless of party is a raving lunatic


THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

 

[Ancle Suck]

Anyone that calls into c-span regardless of party is a raving lunatic

Something we can all agree with

 

[Shadow.]

there is a 0% chance the dems even entertain the idea of replacing biden

they would rather lose with biden than showcase how dysfunctional they are to the entire world by outing their own fucking president lol

 

[Smacktard]

Did I say that? I mean that until there is some ACTUAL MOVEMENT on this, it's just conjecture. News organizations exist for profit and getting people to tune in however they can. Until this becomes a real thing, it's just words. "Words are wind".

That's a fair point, but the amount of traction the "replace Biden" movement has gotten in the media over the past 24 hours leads me to believe there's more than just smoke here. When we talk about elections, most of the conversations revolve around predicting what will happen in the future. The new negative media coverage by some of Biden's most ardent supporters and the huge hit Biden took in polling are warning alarms. Whether the DNC will act on those alarms is up for debate. I just think there's a fair chance that Biden bows out due to "new" health concerns in the coming weeks.

He had a very off day. But one day shouldn't destroy a whole foundation of tangible wins. furthermore, the alternative also doesn't project lucid or in control ever

It wasn't just a "very off day". It was THE off day. It was unquestionably THE most important day for Biden to be at the top of his game, and yet Donald fucking Trump of all people was the one who projected more lucidity and authority. What "should" happen doesn't matter so much as what will happen as a result of this debate.

and is systematically and openly saying he wants to destroy this country.

But the key is that he never really gave that impression during the debate. He reeled back that rhetoric, and as a result left independents and undecideds thinking, "Huh, he's really not as bad as the media says." And that's the problem: Trump was persuasive, and Biden was dissuasive.

 

[Smacktard]

GOD I just wish Elizabeth Warren would take the reins from Biden. I know it's a pipe dream at this point, but she's extremely qualified, dedicated, intelligent, well-spoken, and if she had a national platform where should amplify her voice, she would destroy Trump.

 

[Mark]

If you've ever listened to C-Span call-ins, you'd know how terrifying an idea that would be. I can just imagine it now:
"So-called 'President Biden', I got a question for you: howcome your son Hunter Biden ain't in jail for doing a quid-pro-quo with Ukraine and trafficking cocaine drugs to Zelenskyy?"

I know what you’re talking about, but I’m not referring to those types specifically. I’m talking about throwing some people from all different walks of life at them. President of the people? Prove it. Deal with your people.

It wasn't just a "very off day". It was THE off day. It was unquestionably THE most important day for Biden to be at the top of his game, and yet Donald fucking Trump of all people was the one who projected more lucidity and authority. What "should" happen doesn't matter so much as what will happen as a result of this debate.

Precisely. He went to Camp David to prepare for nearly a week, and that’s what we saw? Unreal.

 

[Ants!]

Warren would definitely be awesome! Ultimately though, I think that despite all the talk going on right now, there's not going to be any real action even close to replacing Biden, because as far as I know there's no historical precedence of doing that (correct me if I'm wrong on that though, I know I could be ignorant and haven't researched it yet) and it would be seen as more risky than just letting him stay in. People have short memories in elections and talk eventually dies down or gets replaced by the next big thing in the news cycle. That seems the most likely thing to me.

 

[Gloom-is-good]

I miss Bernie.

I love this man SO much. I have a magnet of his face on my fridge so everyone knows who we are when they come to my house.

GOD I just wish Elizabeth Warren would take the reins from Biden. I know it's a pipe dream at this point, but she's extremely qualified, dedicated, intelligent, well-spoken, and if she had a national platform where should amplify her voice, she would destroy Trump.

I was very supportive of her until she conceded to Biden as the nominee last election. I was all:

 

[Ants!]

Why would you hold that against her? She held out a long time and then Bernie was very much a lost cause by the time she finally conceded. What else would you have her do? I'm as big a Bernie supporter as anyone else in here, but be reasonable dude.

 

[Avenger]

But the key is that he never really gave that impression during the debate. He reeled back that rhetoric, and as a result left independents and undecideds thinking, "Huh, he's really not as bad as the media says." And that's the problem: Trump was persuasive, and Biden was dissuasive.

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY
He openly and blatantly lied the whole time. About things that take two seconds to fact check. That shouldnt be persuasive. That should be a major red flag. It's just gets tiring to have to factor in that the lowest common denominator of citizen doesn't even have the basic common sense to understand that. But it's that's the case, we get what we deserve. It's whatever. Avenger can always go get a work visa in another country if need be.

THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

 

[Jon]

there is a 0% chance the dems even entertain the idea of replacing biden

they would rather lose with biden than showcase how dysfunctional they are to the entire world by outing their own fucking president lol

But... they are. So it isn't 0%. I promise you this is a very real conversation the leaders are having. And the most influential democrats in congress, like Pelosi and Jeffries were extremely dismissive today when asked "were you worried after that shitshow?" They are all MOSTLY saying the right things, but to say it's a 0% chance is misleading. And I promise you most dems would NOT rather lose with Biden. They know the consequences of installing a dictator. Which is the alternative.

Warren would definitely be awesome! Ultimately though, I think that despite all the talk going on right now, there's not going to be any real action even close to replacing Biden, because as far as I know there's no historical precedence of doing that (correct me if I'm wrong on that though, I know I could be ignorant and haven't researched it yet) and it would be seen as more risky than just letting him stay in. People have short memories in elections and talk eventually dies down or gets replaced by the next big thing in the news cycle. That seems the most likely thing to me.

As someone who grew up in MA, Warren has her skeletons too. She's not perfect, no politician is. But she's a good candidate that suffers the same pitfalls as Bernie. She's labeled (inappropriately) as a socialist. I personally think this country needs MORE socialism than less, but the redistribution needs to come from where the Dems aim and Trump protects: the elite wealthy. Pay discrepancies compared to inflation is my PERSONAL biggest concern. Socialistic approaches like Bernie and Warren appeal to me.

I can't afford my bills and food for my family on the pittance I earn while CEOs get 6 and 7 figure salaries and get handed free gifts everywhere while the work a fraction of the amount I do and a quarter of the difficulty. Tax them, Joe. Tax them at the same rate you tax me. I don't care how unfair it is because 24% of 100k is a lot more than 24% of 50k. The issue is two fold: you tax the rich too little and the middle and lower class too much. *I* should be the one paying 6% in taxes. Not the asshole making 3-4 times my salary.

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY
He openly and blatantly lied the whole time. About things that take two seconds to fact check. That shouldnt be persuasive. That should be a major red flag. It's just gets tiring to have to factor in that the lowest common denominator of citizen doesn't even have the basic common sense to understand that. But it's that's the case, we get what we deserve. It's whatever. Avenger can always go get a work visa in another country if need be.

THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

The issue here is that the average person does not bother fact checking. The average person tunes into the debates and listens to the candidates. They don't have the time or patience to analyze what's ACTUALLY being said. Even here in this forum. How many of us watched the debate, fact checked what was said and heard the policies and can articulately see the difference in the candidates? I know I did Seems to me like Kelly did. Most of the rest of you caught snippets or openly admitted to not watching it.

And the average person is much closer to what you all did than the masochists that Kelly and I are lol. The biggest difference is the lot of you are far more intelligent than the undecideds that will literally determine the next president. Most of us aren't in swing states. Hell, my fucking vote is completely irrelevant. I'm voting Biden (or whoever the democrat is) in Florida. I'm as invaluable a vote as can be. Yet I'm an independent that has voted both sides over the years. I just know what a threat Donald Trump is, and will never vote for him. But I'll also tell you, that even though I don't like a lot of her stances, if Nikki Haley were still in, I'd be giving her a long hard look after that debate performance from Biden.

 

[Ancle Suck]

The only way Biden isn't the nominee is if he chooses to not be the nominee. It's too bad a look otherwise in what's already going to be a close election

 

[Joseph Snapple]

GOD I just wish Elizabeth Warren would take the reins from Biden. I know it's a pipe dream at this point, but she's extremely qualified, dedicated, intelligent, well-spoken, and if she had a national platform where should amplify her voice, she would destroy Trump.

Warren's a big fucking fraud and a big fucking reason we got stuck with this dementia-addled rapist to begin with

 

[Smacktard]

Warren's a big fucking fraud and a big fucking reason we got stuck with this dementia-addled rapist to begin with

Because... she, like every other candidate, took money from PACs?

I just find it funny that Warren is held to a much higher standard than literally everyone else.

 

[Jon]

Warren's a big fucking fraud and a big fucking reason we got stuck with this dementia-addled rapist to begin with

That was the DNC pushing their darling candidate like they always do. They did it with Hilary, they did it with Obama, they did it with Biden. I said it before, growing up in MA, I'm not her biggest fan, but I feel calling her a "fraud" is a bit harsh. And blaming her for Biden is disingenuous.

Also, without proof or evidence, please don't go around calling people a rapist. It's a trigger word for me because the accusations are insidious. I know the talk about Biden being handsy, but to to call him a rapist is not ok. Someone who IS a rapist like Trump... won't argue with it. But Biden? There's not enough evidence he ever went that far, so I would consider it a personal favor if you wouldn't throw that word around like candy.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

He shoved his hand up Tara Reade's privates. He's absolutely a rapist on top of his groping of god knows how many women, many of them teenagers.

Also not buying into this reality where Warren didn't actively sabotage Bernie in 2020.

 

[Jon]

He shoved his hand up Tara Reade's privates. He's absolutely a rapist on top of his groping of god knows how many women, many of them teenagers.

Also not buying into this reality where Warren didn't actively sabotage Bernie in 2020.

I always take sexual assault claims seriously, but even her own accounts of the situation were changed multiple times. And all accounts and witnesses never amounted for anything near as drastic. I won't argue with you that it did or did not happen. But she was not a strong or viable witness because her account changed so many times. Until he was the nominee, her story was that he assaulted her by touching her shoulders. It didn't feel credible that it went as far as she said. not to mention she retracted her accusations and moved to Russia.

I stand by my request to not throw the word around. It is a vile word that is a trigger sensitive. I do not like it. I do not appreciate it. And if you're going to continue to drop that level of accusation, I kindly ask you to do so OUT of my thread.

 

[Smacktard]

He shoved his hand up Tara Reade's privates. He's absolutely a rapist on top of his groping of god knows how many women, many of them teenagers.

This is the same woman that defected to Russia to seek Russian citizenship, who maintains relationships with accused Russian spies, and who now regularly works as a Kremlin mouthpiece, yeah? I don't want to dismiss her claims altogether because Biden has been seen being weirdly handsy on camera, but I do have to wonder how credible they are -- especially when she made a tweet that suggested revealing the sexual assault claims was more of a political convenience:

"Before Reade went public with her sexual assault allegation, reporter Ryan Grim wrote on Twitter: "A head-to-head Biden v Sanders contest will force voters to take a close look at Biden again. That went very badly for him last time." Reade responded via Twitter on March 3, 2020: "Yup. Timing... wait for it....tic toc"."

Also not buying into this reality where Warren didn't actively sabotage Bernie in 2020.

This is ultimately a case of he-said she-said, but if you believe the initial news story, 4 other people in the room claimed he said it.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

I always take sexual assault claims seriously, but even her own accounts of the situation were changed multiple times. And all accounts and witnesses never amounted for anything near as drastic. I won't argue with you that it did or did not happen. But she was not a strong or viable witness because her account changed so many times. Until he was the nominee, her story was that he assaulted her by touching her shoulders. It didn't feel credible that it went as far as she said. not to mention she retracted her accusations and moved to Russia.

I stand by my request to not throw the word around. It is a vile word that is a trigger sensitive. I do not like it. I do not appreciate it. And if you're going to continue to drop that level of accusation, I kindly ask you to do so OUT of my thread.

I, a rape victim, am going to keep calling a rapist a rapist. Fuck you for playing this cowardly-ass triggering game because the word is being used against someone you don't want it to be.

 

[Ben]

I, a rape victim, am going to keep calling a rapist a rapist. Fuck you for playing this cowardly-ass triggering game because the word is being used against someone you don't want it to be.

You're entitled to your own opinions on Biden, and I'm not minimizing what you might have experienced at all, but we're not here to fight amongst each other and throwing this kind of shit around can clearly set people off.

It's a horrible subject and no one is acting cowardly by asking you to stop bringing it up so vehemently.

So stop.

 

[Jon]

I, a rape victim, am going to keep calling a rapist a rapist. Fuck you for playing this cowardly-ass triggering game because the word is being used against someone you don't want it to be.

I am sorry for your situation. I truly am. But you do not know me, so do not pretend like you do. My desire for you to not use it has NOTHING to do with Biden. And it sure as hell isn't because of cowardice. So sling your insults somewhere else.

I am not the one that came in here and started attacking someone I don't know and personally insulting them. I have made my request, and it's a valid one. And I have not insulted you or resorted to name calling to do it. But you are. Toxic replies are not a way to get someone to be sympathetic.

 

[Ants!]

Ugh. I'm out. By yall.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

This is the same woman that defected to Russia to seek Russian citizenship, who maintains relationships with accused Russian spies, and who now regularly works as a Kremlin mouthpiece, yeah?

This is totally unrelated to the Presidential debate, but remember Anna Chapman? That Russian spy who, following her arrest and then mugshots being plastered on the internet revealing how attractive she was? Simpler times.

Oh, and she apparently is Turnip fan.

Edit: Forgot I'm not on reddit...

 

[Ben]

It really baffles me how the MAGA/J6 idiots, who would have been the same ones screaming about Commies in the 70s, don't manage to connect those dots and see how in bed Trump is with Putin.

I've always assumed it's the root cause of the whole thing, Putin saw he could use the TV monkey as a puppet and siezed the chance.

But I'd expect the cold war hold-over to outburn the loyalty to some billionaire.

Fucking Vault-tec.

 

[Ben]

I don't know if I missed this typo the first time, reading without my glasses on, or if it was after you edited, but fuck if it's not hilarious.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

It really baffles me how the MAGA/J6 idiots, who would have been the same ones screaming about Commies in the 70s, don't manage to connect those dots and see how in bed Trump is with Putin.

I've always assumed it's the root cause of the whole thing, Putin saw he could use the TV monkey as a puppet and siezed the chance.

But I'd expect the cold war hold-over to outburn the loyalty to some billionaire.

Fucking Vault-tec.

I just rewatched Bridge of Spies on my flight yesterday, and the first hour or deals with Hanks' character trying to defend a Soviet spy despite constantly being blocked from doing his job at every turn and all the dirty looks he got, simply because he was representing a Soviet spy.

I couldn't help but feel like those are the same kind of people who run around wearing MAGA hats and complaining about "commies".

 

[Fool's Requiem]

I don't know if I missed this typo the first time, reading without my glasses on, or if it was after you edited, but fuck if it's not hilarious.

View attachment 17521

The misspelling is 100% intentional.

 

[Ben]

The misspelling is 100% intentional.

Hah. It just reads in my head like the Colbert "da, is potato" bit and I'm tickled.

 

[Avenger]

It really baffles me how the MAGA/J6 idiots, who would have been the same ones screaming about Commies in the 70s, don't manage to connect those dots and see how in bed Trump is with Putin.

I've always assumed it's the root cause of the whole thing, Putin saw he could use the TV monkey as a puppet and siezed the chance.

But I'd expect the cold war hold-over to outburn the loyalty to some billionaire.

Fucking Vault-tec.

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY

Because they don't really have any actual platform orbeliefs they stand on. They fear monger and use that fear mongering as a cudgel to beat anyone they don't like with. They actually don't really care about this country anymore than to try to claim faux patriotism or better term nationalism to spout bigotry and racism against whatever the disenfranchised person of the day is.

In reality, they appear to want to live in a dictatorship and claim it all the time by saying trump should be king. They should just all move to russia if this is the type of shit they want. But they say no that place is a shit hole but can't seem to connect the dots as to what a dictatorship here would look like.

THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

 

[Mark]

 

[Ben]

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY

Because they don't really have any actual platform orbeliefs they stand on. They fear monger and use that fear mongering as a cudgel to beat anyone they don't like with. They actually don't really care about this country anymore than to try to claim faux patriotism or better term nationalism to spout bigotry and racism against whatever the disenfranchised person of the day is.

In reality, they appear to want to live in a dictatorship and claim it all the time by saying trump should be king. They should just all move to russia if this is the type of shit they want. But they say no that place is a shit hole but can't seem to connect the dots as to what a dictatorship here would look like.

THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

Yeah, this is probably pretty accurate.

View attachment 17524

I'm generally not regretting having avoided US citizenship... England is a fucking mess too, but at least there people can generally only stab you, not shoot you from across a parking lot.

I mean, if I had gotten citizenship I'd be and to vote here and my opinion would matter at all, but... Nah.

The general "oh I'll move to Canada" mentality I see a lot of panicking people spout it's pretty whack, though... You don't think Canada would perhaps not want 166 million refugees who all had the same idea? Not to mention then the shitheels go completely unchecked...

 

[Avenger]

The general "oh I'll move to Canada" mentality I see a lot of panicking people spout it's pretty whack, though... You don't think Canada would perhaps not want 166 million refugees who all had the same idea? Not to mention then the shitheels go completely unchecked...

ATTENTION THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SOMETHING TO SAY

The problem is, if they actually start enacting project 2025, going unchecked is exactly what would happen. Granted, Canada is only one choice. But staying here? Sadly, that may not be a good option. Especially depending on your sex/gender/skin color. If Biden wins, one of the first things he needs to do is expand the court. Sure, people were using that argument that every time a new party becomes president, they'll add more Judges. But honestly, at this point, who gives a fuck? They've already rolled back 50 years of precedent multiple times. It's a kangaroo court as it is.

THE GREAT AVENGER HAS SPOKEN

 

[Quagmire]

View attachment 17524

Pretty much, hopefully Biden has stronger performance next ones (and hopefully they all arent run by CNN)

 

[Ben]

Article:

The New York Times’s editorial board has called on Joe Biden to drop out of the 2024 presidential race after a disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump.

Biden’s poor performance sent leading Democrats into a panic on Thursday night, after the US president appeared shaky and at points struggled to finish sentences. It amplified fears about his age and fitness for office that it had been hoped the debate would allay.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/29/new-york-times-first-us-paper-urging-joe-biden-to-drop-out-of-presidential-race

Not that I'm sure it's the right choice, but they're definitely starting to push this in the papers, etc.

But it also looks like NYT never really liked Biden, so they would probably try to take any opportunity to spin up someone else.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

The DMC definitely needs to fucking do something. I don't want to live in an authoritarian led country and I can't exactly move...

 

[Mark]

I'm generally not regretting having avoided US citizenship... England is a fucking mess too, but at least there people can generally only stab you, not shoot you from across a parking lot.

I mean, if I had gotten citizenship I'd be and to vote here and my opinion would matter at all, but... Nah.

The general "oh I'll move to Canada" mentality I see a lot of panicking people spout it's pretty whack, though... You don't think Canada would perhaps not want 166 million refugees who all had the same idea? Not to mention then the shitheels go completely unchecked...

Unfortunately, though, the American way of life, the blatant disregard for others and propensity for unnecessary violence, is bleeding over into other countries. Of course, I don’t have the statistics in-hand to back that up, but I’ve been hearing about a steady rise in crime across the entirety of the UK for years. I’ve been stabbed before, and I’ve been shot at before (luckily never hit with more than a fragment), and the end game was the same… to cause harm to me. To me, that’s like choosing whether you’d want to die by fire or drowning… one’s just a little more instantaneous.

Article:

The New York Times’s editorial board has called on Joe Biden to drop out of the 2024 presidential race after a disastrous debate performance against Donald Trump.

Biden’s poor performance sent leading Democrats into a panic on Thursday night, after the US president appeared shaky and at points struggled to finish sentences. It amplified fears about his age and fitness for office that it had been hoped the debate would allay.

Source: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/jun/29/new-york-times-first-us-paper-urging-joe-biden-to-drop-out-of-presidential-race

Not that I'm sure it's the right choice, but they're definitely starting to push this in the papers, etc.

But it also looks like NYT never really liked Biden, so they would probably try to take any opportunity to spin up someone else.

It’s my understanding that NYT isn’t much more than a gossip rag, so they’ll likely flip-flop between candidates if they already haven’t been.

 

[Ben]

Unfortunately, though, the American way of life, the blatant disregard for others and propensity for unnecessary violence, is bleeding over into other countries. Of course, I don’t have the statistics in-hand to back that up, but I’ve been hearing about a steady rise in crime across the entirety of the UK for years. I’ve been stabbed before, and I’ve been shot at before (luckily never hit with more than a fragment), and the end game was the same… to cause harm to me. To me, that’s like choosing whether you’d want to die by fire or drowning… one’s just a little more instantaneous..

It's the inability to hurt many so many people so quickly that I see as the difference.

Yeah they're both not good for your health, but someone with a knife is limited in how many they can harm and how quickly. And you've got a better chance of running from a knife.

In the US, someone can walk into a bowling alley with an AR-15 and hurt a huge number of people before anyone even registers whats happening. I'd much prefer someone have to get close to me, where I have at least some chance of retaliating with even just my fists.

I'm not about to be carrying a concealed pistol everywhere just in case, which seems to be where a lot of Americans are at.

 

[Rachel]

The DMC definitely needs to fucking do something. I don't want to live in an authoritarian led country and I can't exactly move...

Lmao. No clue what you want them to do. Only Biden can release his delegates. They can try and persuade, yes. But by stepping in a certain direction they are sure to kick a hornets nest. He has already said he is not dropping out.

They have already announced a September debate. Biden also gave a pretty competent speech since the debate. So hopefully that will be the chance.

 

[Mark]

It's the inability to hurt many so many people so quickly that I see as the difference.

Yeah they're both not good for your health, but someone with a knife is limited in how many they can harm and how quickly. And you've got a better chance of running from a knife.

In the US, someone can walk into a bowling alley with an AR-15 and hurt a huge number of people before anyone even registers whats happening. I'd much prefer someone have to get close to me, where I have at least some chance of retaliating with even just my fists.

I'm not about to be carrying a concealed pistol everywhere just in case, which seems to be where a lot of Americans are at.

Maybe it’s an environmental thing, but for me, it has always been much easier to pick up on whether someone is packing or not as opposed to something like a knife attack. For example, when I was stabbed, the individual was already within arm’s reach of me. My options were limited, and the only suitable choice I had at the time was to attempt a block in hopes of protecting my chest, which was where he lunged. Ultimately, because I grabbed him with one arm and struck with the other, pulling him closer and towards the ground, he was able to get my left thigh instead, which likely spared me a punctured lung or worse. My encounters with armed individuals, on the other hand, are surprisingly more predictable. You can see how someone runs or walks differently with a firearm, especially if they’re only used to carrying them for a show of force. Part of the issue with mass shootings is that they occur in locations where situational awareness isn’t necessarily thought to be necessary… recreational places, commercial places, schools, places of worship, etc.

We, as a society, deemed these types of places “safe”, and because of that, let our guard down considerably over the course of decades. However, school shootings, for example, go back to the 1800’s. It’s not something new, it’s tradition here. Don’t get me wrong, I firmly believe those types of places should be safe. We shouldn’t have to worry about what’s gonna happen to our kids while they’re learning about fractions and adverbs. Period. We shouldn’t have to worry about being shot going out for a loaf of bread. Period.

However… we do, so, we must remain vigilant at all times. You could restrict firearm ownership like the UK, and in lieu of that, you’ll see a rise in stabbings. You could make handguns and automatic weapons harder to acquire in the US, as we have in many states, and firearm thefts will rise, shooting incidents with “hunting rifles” like the infamously referred to “AR-15-style rifle” (which, by the way, is laughed at by people familiar with firearms) will rise, and hardware will be designed to circumvent restrictions, like we’ve seen with the so-called “bump stocks”. Nobody really wants to hear this part, but, a major part of the problem is vigilance. We’re simply not doing enough to prevent certain individuals from obtaining weapons. We’re not doing enough to get those individuals the mental help they need. We’re not doing enough to keep violent people incarcerated. We’re not doing enough to deter people from committing these acts. At the end of all of that which holds the gun shops, mental health system, and perpetrators responsible… the rest of us just aren’t paying attention to our surroundings like we should. Why do you think we’ve seen so much of an increase to that “if you see something, say something” mentality? Yeah, it was born in the shadow of 9/11, but it has remained in place to remind people to watch their backs and be aware of their environment.

 

[dimmerwit]

Lmao. No clue what you want them to do. Only Biden can release his delegates. They can try and persuade, yes. But by stepping in a certain direction they are sure to kick a hornets nest. He has already said he is not dropping out.

This isn't actually true, despite a lot of places saying it is. Whilst delgates are requested to "in all good conscience reflect the sentiments of those who elected them" there is no explicit rule that they must vote for him.

 

[Rachel]

Okay but that won't happen, they are his delegates

 

[Mark]

Okay but that won't happen, they are his delegates

You’re brave, though. After all the crazy stuff we’ve seen, I am almost afraid to say something won’t happen for fear of jinxing us.

 

[Ben]

Maybe it’s an environmental thing, but for me, it has always been much easier to pick up on whether someone is packing or not as opposed to something like a knife attack. For example, when I was stabbed, the individual was already within arm’s reach of me. My options were limited, and the only suitable choice I had at the time was to attempt a block in hopes of protecting my chest, which was where he lunged. Ultimately, because I grabbed him with one arm and struck with the other, pulling him closer and towards the ground, he was able to get my left thigh instead, which likely spared me a punctured lung or worse. My encounters with armed individuals, on the other hand, are surprisingly more predictable. You can see how someone runs or walks differently with a firearm, especially if they’re only used to carrying them for a show of force. Part of the issue with mass shootings is that they occur in locations where situational awareness isn’t necessarily thought to be necessary… recreational places, commercial places, schools, places of worship, etc.

We, as a society, deemed these types of places “safe”, and because of that, let our guard down considerably over the course of decades. However, school shootings, for example, go back to the 1800’s. It’s not something new, it’s tradition here. Don’t get me wrong, I firmly believe those types of places should be safe. We shouldn’t have to worry about what’s gonna happen to our kids while they’re learning about fractions and adverbs. Period. We shouldn’t have to worry about being shot going out for a loaf of bread. Period.

However… we do, so, we must remain vigilant at all times. You could restrict firearm ownership like the UK, and in lieu of that, you’ll see a rise in stabbings. You could make handguns and automatic weapons harder to acquire in the US, as we have in many states, and firearm thefts will rise, shooting incidents with “hunting rifles” like the infamously referred to “AR-15-style rifle” (which, by the way, is laughed at by people familiar with firearms) will rise, and hardware will be designed to circumvent restrictions, like we’ve seen with the so-called “bump stocks”. Nobody really wants to hear this part, but, a major part of the problem is vigilance. We’re simply not doing enough to prevent certain individuals from obtaining weapons. We’re not doing enough to get those individuals the mental help they need. We’re not doing enough to keep violent people incarcerated. We’re not doing enough to deter people from committing these acts. At the end of all of that which holds the gun shops, mental health system, and perpetrators responsible… the rest of us just aren’t paying attention to our surroundings like we should. Why do you think we’ve seen so much of an increase to that “if you see something, say something” mentality? Yeah, it was born in the shadow of 9/11, but it has remained in place to remind people to watch their backs and be aware of their environment.

I'm not primarily talking about individual person on person crime where someone wants to harm you explicitly. Yeah, that's going to be hard to avoid either way if someone is in your face.

But... Saying mass shootings are "normal" and just something to deal with is fucking wild. I'll never understand how anyone could frame it as "be more aware at all times" without realizing how messed up that is.

The whole point of civilized society is so we don't have to be constantly looking out for wolves while out gathering vegetables. It's antithetical to the entire point of ( *gestures broadly* ) this. But it's even worse when the wolves have guns.

And yes, I know an AR-15 is a specific make and type of assault rifle. It's generally a pedantic differentiation.