Aftercare

[Mark]

I have a sneaking suspicion I'll be here early next game one way or the other because nobody is going to believe anything I claim or say.

Because you a sneaky sneaky fuck.

 

[Jon]

Well if you know everything maybe you should just play and help the town not implode.

Just don't pull Doctor.

I never claimed to know everything. The minute you assume you're an expert you forget you still have things to learn.

But the rocking chairs and cookies in the nursing home dead thread are a comfort I have come to appreciate. Plus, I only have to punch my card a couple more times to earn MY JR badge.

 

[shortkut]

My avatar is from problem sleuth

Problem Sleuth

An adventure about a hard boiled detective in his office. About 1,700 pages.

www.homestuck.com

 

[TD]

I never claimed to know everything. The minute you assume you're an expert you forget you still have things to learn.

But the rocking chairs and cookies in the nursing home dead thread are a comfort I have come to appreciate. Plus, I only have to punch my card a couple more times to earn MY JR badge.

You have Baymax for that.

 

[VashTheStampede]

So until this game prompted me to actually READ the roles (needed something to do because I couldn't play with you guys) I actually thought the Instigator was closer to the Headhunter.

Just from the name alone I was assuming the Instigator was trying to start a fight between two different players, making it their goal to kill the other one chosen.

Sure, it doesn't make any sense (how the fuck would that lead to winning a game???) but it seemed a fun idea.

 

[TD]

So until this game prompted me to actually READ the roles (needed something to do because I couldn't play with you guys) I actually thought the Instigator was closer to the Headhunter.

Just from the name alone I was assuming the Instigator was trying to start a fight between two different players, making it their goal to kill the other one chosen.

Sure, it doesn't make any sense (how the fuck would that lead to winning a game???) but it seemed a fun idea.

I came so close to trying to openly tell people to "fight" but I felt like that would've been skirting the obvious line a little too much - even for me.

That's actually such an interesting concept though, have basically like two headhunters that are after eachother? Could make some interesting gameplay.

I do think it's named well for what it is - as I read it as one recruit instigated fights with the wolves while the other instigated fights with the town and the Instigator starts fights with everyone... which is also kinda what happened?

I actually missed it was a Good aura so I wonder what Tommy would've said, or I suppose they just could've killed me.

 

[Raine]

Also announcing to all that the game has Cupid hurts the wolves tremendously, because it eliminates the possibility of Fool or Headhunter. It's free lynches from day 1.

Valid point. I did have time to mull it over during today's shift though, and I believe I've landed on a pretty decent idea maybe? It even works to keep Cupid and Insta-Gator distinct entities.

Cupid: If a Town/Wolf pairing occurs, the wolves are simply informed that a member of the town has fallen madly in love with one of their number. The wolf can continue to win as either the wolf team or the Cupid pair (disincentivizing revealing the wolf roster), but the townie can only win as a member of the Cupid pair. The wolves do not need to kill Cupid or the Lover to achieve victory. If the wolf dies, the townie takes their own life out of despair. If the townie gets killed in any way besides a wolf attack, the wolf doesn't care - they're evil. If the wolves kill the townie, however, then the paired wolf goes rogue (details TBD?). If a Town/Town or Wolf/Wolf pairing occurs, no one is notified.

In the case of a Wolf/Wolf pairing, should they be the last wolves remaining and a wolf victory is achieved, the Cupid win condition just takes priority. I like the idea of Cupid not being in the Lovers chat and just minding their own business, and only being able to win with the Lovers. If the Lovers perish, they just become a freelancer an agent of chaos.

Instigator: Always one wolf and one member of the town. The wolf is not informed of who the other wolves are and is not in Wolf Chat, but does know which roles they have. The wolf team similarly knows the role, but not the identity, of the instigated wolf. The instigated wolf gets to vote for a wolf kill in an attempt to steal it, but normal wolf rules apply. The Alpha Wolf can not be Instigated (and should be the highest ranking wolf ). If the Instigator dies, their allies/cronies are released and rejoin their original factions. But only one. If the Instigator is killed by lynched, the wolf dies. If the Instigator is killed by wolf attack, the townie dies. If an ally/crony dies the other does as well, and the Instigator becomes free to kill at night.


Or something along those lines, basically.

I just don't like the idea of the wolves putting in work - hours of work, potentially - and being completely undermined out of the gate because an opposing force knows their identity.

I've felt a lot of... staleness... in roles recently. Especially seeing multiples of certain roles and never seeing others.

Couldn't have anything to do with the abundance of Blind Wolves, eh Mr. Wolf?

I didn’t want to take that chance. Also, I thought if there was a protector, we could get a 2 for 1 with the berserk. I couldn’t risk Raine shooting GWJ before we could use his ability

How do you feel now that you know I was going to shoot you?

 

[Jon]

Couldn't have anything to do with the abundance of Blind Wolves, eh Mr. Wolf?

I mean... since I've BEEN a wolf, and the blind wolf recently, no lol. But there have been a ton of gunners, marksmen and priests, but so few of others, and so few opportunities for others to use their powers. At least as a wolf, I've not ever died without using my power.

 

[Benzine]

So until this game prompted me to actually READ the roles (needed something to do because I couldn't play with you guys) I actually thought the Instigator was closer to the Headhunter.

Just from the name alone I was assuming the Instigator was trying to start a fight between two different players, making it their goal to kill the other one chosen.

Sure, it doesn't make any sense (how the fuck would that lead to winning a game???) but it seemed a fun idea.

bonus objectives

 

[TD]

If a Town/Wolf pairing occurs, the wolves are simply informed that a member of the town has fallen madly in love with one of their number.

Hard disagreement on this one from me.

See my post here for more "why".

Post in thread 'GWF Zell Wolf Volume XIV - Day 4' https://gwforums.com/threads/gwf-zell-wolf-volume-xiv-day-4.1884/post-110772

The wolf can continue to win as either the wolf team or the Cupid pair (disincentivizing revealing the wolf roster), but the townie can only win as a member of the Cupid pair.

This ostensibly leads to only a 5th wolf by extension in my eyes though if the townie lover can only win as a member of the couple and the wolf can maintain their original condition.

Perhaps if anything, Cupid's lovers can only be townies and can only win as lovers. Making it different enough from Instigator but providing a single win condition that doesn't involve knowing every single wolf.

Instigator: Always one wolf and one member of the town. The wolf is not informed of who the other wolves are and is not in Wolf Chat, but does know which roles they have. The wolf team similarly knows the role, but not the identity, of the instigated wolf. The instigated wolf gets to vote for a wolf kill in an attempt to steal it, but normal wolf rules apply. The Alpha Wolf can not be Instigated (and should be the highest ranking wolf ). If the Instigator dies, their allies/cronies are released and rejoin their original factions. But only one. If the Instigator is killed by lynched, the wolf dies. If the Instigator is killed by wolf attack, the townie dies. If an ally/crony dies the other does as well, and the Instigator becomes free to kill at night.

I think Instigator could do with another go before massive overhauls. The first time around, they didn't succeed.

This time around it succeeded but there's also a lot of other variables:
- 14 players meant 2 less townies
- Kat already had a sacrifice plan
- You shot a townie
- FR splashed Kat who avenger killed Alu
(without the above happening it's already much, MUCH harder)

Add in that I drew Instigator of all people, this is not to sound self important but the reality is I'm always a target, this added a massive sense of urgency especially because Tommy could see my exact role, a wolf avenger that could target me once they find out, and the fact Instigator is the only one who could be night killed?

If we didn't do our "takeover", it likely ends immediately after Day 1 and it wouldn't have been possible without all of the above variables that are arguably one offs.

I just don't like the idea of the wolves putting in work - hours of work, potentially - and being completely undermined out of the gate because an opposing force knows their identity.

This would apply to the trio too, they have to put in a ton of work, and if one is a wolf it's a triple agent situation (avoiding SK too for Cupid). The moment the wolves are informed without the use of any seer like ability, paranoia will take over, the wolves may become immediately discouraged as well as the trio.

The biggest advantage a trio can have is people not knowing they exist.

 

[shortkut]

How do you feel now that you know I was going to shoot you?

I feel important

 

[TD]

I feel important

 

[TD]

On another note - we could always just put up a poll on how the community collectively wants Cupid/Instigator handled, whether it's openly told it exists in a game, modify it, bench it, or leave it as is. We could always run a poll or something similar.

If the community wants it, keep it. If not, get rid of it.

 

[Jawneh]

We want polycule! We want polycule!

 

[TD]

We want polycule! We want polycule!

flashbacks of the polycule coming for me and then you diving in front of the angry mob

 

[Jawneh]

Ahhh, good times... Everything is so complicated these days.

 

[Ben]

in our defense, it was just Ben

as I said, it was just Ben. I was discussing not skipping so that Ben had time to post all his pictures, but Zell said he shared them here. TD called Zell the true instigator, and then Ben made him a badge. Seeing what is happening here, Zell actually was instigating

I didn't really want to play this game to begin with. So I just did what I do anyway and hemorrhage images wherever possibly amusing.

By the time you'd cemented the victory and there was no way we didn't win... Why wouldn't I get a head start on making a cool badge? In any other instance having it ready to go before the game ends would just be efficient. I don't even think it's the fact that I designed one knowing it was going to myself that's the problem. I think the main issue is Zell coming in here just to intentionally stir shit up and make everyone feel salty about it, but... whatever.

Sorry to anyone who got their feelings hurt because of a badge.

On another note - we could always just put up a poll on how the community collectively wants Cupid/Instigator handled, whether it's openly told it exists in a game, bench it, or leave it as is. We could always run a poll or something similar.

If the community wants it, keep it. If not, get rid of it.

I'm not a fan at all and think those roles just cause more damage to the community than whatever fun they might be. Probably better to just get rid of them, rather than try to make something toxic more palatable.

 

[Tommy Boy]

I just want to settle all badge conversations and just say that I was joking around and no feelings were hurt at all. Things can be cocky and also funny. And they were!

@Ben I FEEL BAD THAT YOU FEEL BAD THAT YOU THOUGHT I FELT BAD

 

[Tommy Boy]

Besides, my badge is better. I stole it from here, a classic Tommy Boy move

 

[Tommy Boy]

Thank you @Mark for making the badge and also making it without questioning me at all, these are the foundations of OGW that keep GWF strong and prosperous.

 

[Raine]

Insta-Gator was robbed, that's all I'm saying.
Fuck you yes I'm biased, I thought that was a great pun and took all of 3 seconds to Google!
Although I was thinking more "Instagram model alligator," but well... maybe it's better I didn't see that.


I can maybe have more coherent thoughts tomorrow on the Cupid/Instigator thing. It's great that nobody in this game was upset! But I do absolutely think it's going to be a problem if we don't change or nuke them.

 

[Benzine]

Insta-Gator

I didn't connect that in my brain. You're right, it should've been that.

 

[Mark]

Thank you @Mark for making the badge and also making it without questioning me at all, these are the foundations of OGW that keep GWF strong and prosperous.

Protocol? What’s protocol?

 

[Mark]

I’m catching hints that the whole badge thing was a bit more controversial than I suspected when I blindly added the badge in the post I was tagged in.

I’m just here to point that out. I still don’t know what’s going on beyond a few posts I’ve seen above and in the new signup thread, so, bear with me while I attempt to figure out what I instigated with an instigator badge.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Mark walks in on a room full of dead bodies:

"Starting to think something may have happened here. It's pretty suspicious."

 

[Mark]

Mark walks in on a room full of dead bodies:

"Starting to think something may have happened here. It's pretty suspicious."

Yeah, not what I was expecting. I thought we were handing out badges, not toe tags and hurt feelings again.

 

[GwJumpman]

My new strategy is going to be to kill the players most experienced first to reduce the average amount of brain cells needed to play this game

 

[Mark]

My new strategy is going to be to kill the players most experienced first to reduce the average amount of brain cells needed to play this game

Solid strategy. Where have I seen that before…

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

My new strategy is going to be to kill the players most experienced first to reduce the average amount of brain cells needed to play this game

Jokes on you none of us have brains.

 

[Tommy Boy]

I’m catching hints that the whole badge thing was a bit more controversial than I suspected when I blindly added the badge in the post I was tagged in.

I had no idea it was actually bothering anyone either. I thought my low-effort "steal emoji from GWF and ask to make badge" plan would hurt the least amount of feelings, or none.

I’m just here to point that out. I still don’t know what’s going on beyond a few posts I’ve seen above and in the new signup thread, so, bear with me while I attempt to figure out what I instigated with an instigator badge.

My bad for getting you wrapped up in what I thought was just silly stuff. No harm intended.

Yeah, not what I was expecting. I thought we were handing out badges, not toe tags and hurt feelings again.

Same. I'm waking up to a few posts where I am confused.

 

[Jon]

My new strategy is going to be to kill the players most experienced first to reduce the average amount of brain cells needed to play this game

I mean you are always a SK or wolf, so it's entirely plausible for you.

 

[Kat]

The wolves do not need to kill Cupid or the Lover to achieve victory. If the wolf dies, the townie takes their own life out of despair. If the townie gets killed in any way besides a wolf attack, the wolf doesn't care - they're evil. If the wolves kill the townie, however, then the paired wolf goes rogue (details TBD?). If a Town/Town or Wolf/Wolf pairing occurs, no one is notified.

Hmm, this is an interesting twist. I think Cupid is pretty much impossible to win as right now, and that'd help.

Instigator: Always one wolf and one member of the town. The wolf is not informed of who the other wolves are and is not in Wolf Chat, but does know which roles they have. The wolf team similarly knows the role, but not the identity, of the instigated wolf.

I feel like this would hamper the fun of both the wolves and the instigator.

I think Instigator could do with another go before massive overhauls. The first time around, they didn't succeed.

This time around it succeeded but there's also a lot of other variables:
- 14 players meant 2 less townies
- Kat already had a sacrifice plan
- You shot a townie
- FR splashed Kat who avenger killed Alu
(without the above happening it's already much, MUCH harder)

After some reflection, I agree. The other big variable was we all completely forgot the instigator existed. If I had remembered, I would've been more suspicious of kut and maybe blocked his involvement in the sacrifice plan. That's not a mistake I'll make twice.

My biggest issue with the instigator is it means the wolves can't trust each other until they know what the SK is. I do really like the idea of the role though, and don't want to get rid of it.

I'd be fine playing again with the instigator unchanged and seeing how it plays out.

 

[shortkut]

Mark walks in on a room full of dead bodies:

"Starting to think something may have happened here. It's pretty suspicious."

Prompt: Mark walks in on a room full of bodies thinking "something may have happened here. It's pretty suspicious."

 

[Mark]

Prompt: Mark walks in on a room full of bodies thinking "something may have happened here. It's pretty suspicious."

You’ll never beat @Ben for a job in the graphics department with that kinda material.

 

[shortkut]

You’ll never beat @Ben for a job in the graphics department with that kinda material.

I use free AI. This is all you’ll get. I do seem to more consistently get dead bodies through the censor, so I have that going for me

 

[Ben]

You’ll never beat @Ben for a job in the graphics department with that kinda material.

 

[shortkut]

View attachment 8651

I was doing something similar now

 

[Mark]

I use free AI. This is all you’ll get. I do seem to more consistently get dead bodies through the censor, so I have that going for me

I wouldn’t even know where to begin with using those scripts. The last one I used was DALL-E and it was just me high and coming up with dumb shit like so:

 

[Ben]

I wouldn’t even know where to begin with using those scripts. The last one I used was DALL-E and it was just me high and coming up with dumb shit like so:

View attachment 8657View attachment 8656View attachment 8655

 

[Mark]

I was doing something similar nowView attachment 8653View attachment 8654

YES. I always, generally, travel with no less than two pipes.

 

[shortkut]

Was focusing on the pipe this time

 

[Ben]

Better.

 

[Mark]

I’m over here dying, because…

 

[Ben]

Was focusing on the pipe this timeView attachment 8660

This is just Sigmund Freud contemplating his choice in potpourri.

 

[Ben]

I’m over here dying, because…

View attachment 8663

Shit it's like we know you or something.

 

[Jawneh]

This looks like fun.

 

[Mark]

Shit it's like we know you or something.

Not far off base AT ALL.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Hey @Ben even if you don't play can you provide running AI commentary in the dead thread mixed in with @Christina 's cookies?

 

[Mark]

Hey @Ben even if you don't play can you provide running AI commentary in the dead thread mixed in with @Christina 's cookies?

Yes, it’s much more enjoyable to mock the games from above while the blood of others is spilled (if you’re into superiority, or below, if you’re being literal, being the dead thread and all).

 

[Jon]

Hey @Ben even if you don't play can you provide running AI commentary in the dead thread mixed in with @Christina 's cookies?

Man, I need to find something I can contribute to the dead thread....