U.S.A. What are your expectations for the upcoming presidential election?

Ben

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Meh. People keep saying that but these disorganized fat fuck keyboard warriors aint going to do anything. How could they? Where are the battle lines drawn? How do you know who's on which side? Who's in command?
Eh... Being honest I think there's a far higher percentage of people who're primed for another January 6th than you'd probably anticipate. Like, that happened. Sure, a lot of them are disorganized morons, but there are plenty of organized morons to help them point them in a direction. When you start considering how many people in the police force, the military, etc. etc. might hold Trump's far-right ideals, it becomes a little less lol-like.

I'm sure a large percentage of the police force, military, etc. etc. would, if push came to shove, side with Trump. I'm sure 80%+ of people who walk around in public with firearms on their person are Republicans. They might be dumbasses for their views, but they're still dangerous dumbasses, and I don't truly expect the moderates to dilute their fervor at all.

Maybe it's because I'm not an American and haven't had this background "lol civil wars happen that's how we got started baybee" mentality my whole life, but I can't help but see the potential for shit going bad. I certainly hope I'm wrong, of course.
 

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I think it's important to remember two things. Barometers if you will.

One is that he has repeatedly called for protestors for his court cases and they haven't showed up in really any capacity. His crowds are also dwindling for previous rallies.

Two, I think many of them thought their guy would pardon them and they had immunity. But that didn't happen. They saw the arrests and convictions and decided to nope out of that before it affected them personally.

Not to say someone else can't come along and do what Trump did, but smarter. But I think many of his original voters have moved on. Repealing abortion laws also didn't help.

The key for me is always complacency, we need to show up to vote. Don't discount anything.
 
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The dangerous part is Trump is acting in exactly the way Hitler did when he came to power.

I can't find it now, but there is a quote from Hitler that explained he purposely used bar room brawler type mechanics to come to power legally in Germany. He explained that essentially as long as you can keep people talking about you, whether it's love or hate, then you can essentially manipulate them to your will.

It shouldn't come as a surprise that Trump is performing the exact same tactics and even praising them as a, at that time, would become dictator. Trump want to be a dictator. He's slowly infiltrated every level of the government to get there. When you have a SUPREME COURT JUSTICE arguing that presidents NEED full criminal immunity or else they'll use criminal tactics to stay in power... something is VERY wrong. And yes... Samuel Alito, a Supreme Court Justice said that.

Add to that the number of blind loyalists he has in Congress, both the Senate and House and he effectively controls all three branches. He has already argued that a president would have the right to have political opponents assassinated and as long as he's not impeached he can't be tried in a court of law. This is Putin's, North Korea and China's tactics. All of whom Trump has cozied up to and praised for their behavior.

Let's toss in the fact he wants to pull the US out of every major world organization and said to other countries if you want the territory, go get it.

Oh and how about one final amazing tidbit that he plans to act like a dictator on day one to remove anyone not loyal to him. HE'S TELLING YOU HE'S GOING TO BE A DICTATOR AND HE'S STILL BEING ALLOWED TO RUN. AND HE STILL HAS ANY SUPPORTERS AT ALL!

Whether you love or hate Joe Biden, Donald Trump is a clear and present danger to the US and to Democracy as a whole. Election integrity is already set to be abolished by him, but he will never relinquish power until he's dead. And even then, he'll just hand me down to fucking Don Jr or Eric.

And don't think he can't or won't. He controls the government on every level, remember? The Supreme Court has already shown the 3 Trump appointees will just do what he wants. Alito and Kavanaugh at the least should be run off the court for their stupidity, as should Thomas for his bigotry and crimes he committed. Those 4 control the outcome of all crucial decisions.

We're in a precarious position in this country. Imagine if he LOSES again to Biden... It may well be the start to a civil war.
 
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One is that he has repeatedly called for protestors for his court cases and they haven't showed up in really any capacity. His crowds are also dwindling for previous rallies.
While I completely agree that this has been a beautiful sight, it's still New York, which is 90% Democratic. He was never going to get those crowds. Wait for Florida and Georgia (not that those will ever make it to trial).
 

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"Certainement qui est en droit de vous rendre absurde est en droit de vous rendre injuste" - Voltaire

"Certainly anyone who has the power to make you believe absurdities has the power to make you commit injustices"
 

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Given I'm not greatly in tune with a lot of internal politics, I don't want to see Trump win for so many reasons.

The biggest of which is the implications of what would become a foreseeable and obvious alliance with Putin/Russia. This will cause significant issues worldwide.

Forget civil war, that has the potential to become world war and all these Truth Social nutjobs will be in for a really harsh wake up call of what genuine hardship and war looks like.
 

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Also, I was more or less talking about THE ELECTION ITSELF, as in election night and the results and the things leading up to it, not what you expect to happen after it's done.
In that case - I see Trump winning.

The only thing that can really stop that at this point is the young crowd showing up and doing the thing.
 
Also, I was more or less talking about THE ELECTION ITSELF, as in election night and the results and the things leading up to it, not what you expect to happen after it's done.
The problem is that six months out and with the polls where they are there's little to say because the election is essentially a toss-up.

And since you can't toss coins in this forum, we'll forever be in the dark.
 

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biden and everyone surrounding him is fucking stupid and out-of-touch. the tiktok ban (and his fumbles related to what’s going on in gaza/the west bank) is going to hurt him way worse than he expects and inflation is such a problem that he’s gonna get jimmy cartered if something drastic doesn’t change. i don’t expect it to. but if there’s one thing i’ve learned about modern american politics over the last decade it’s that it’s pointless to try to predict anything
 

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I honestly see this election being more about putting on a show than actual campaign promises or intentions behind the desk. Neither candidate can address a subject without immediately defaulting to trash talking the other. What does that do other than dance around the larger issues we face as a country? Both of the candidates will be dead inside of a decade, so neither of them are going to matter, and we’ll be cleaning up the aftermath of this election in 5 years after the dust settles from the next one. If we’re lucky.

One of the few “conspiracies” I bite on is the fact that the president is just a mascot and a patsy for a party, and not actually a leader or decision-maker. How else can you explain the patterns we’ve seen? It’s the only one that even feels logical to me considering how out of touch both candidates are. You’re not going to tell me that Trump, a NY billionaire dipshit, speaks for farmers and cops and rural people. That just doesn’t make sense to me, just like it doesn’t make sense that Biden and Harris represent the same people they spent half their career working to incarcerate, whether on a federal level like Biden or a local level like Harris. Considering what gets labeled as a conspiracy these days, though, I’m wondering if I’m even labeling this belief correctly.

With that said, it’s hard to say how I personally think it’s going to pan out. I don’t think there is a “good” choice, or even a “safe” choice for any of us to make, and “choice” could just be an illusion we as a country are under for what is ultimately a scenario where most people are willfully choosing “a lesser evil”. No, I’m not going to go all New World Order on y’all and claim that our votes don’t matter and everything is decided already by a board, but the idea that one of these guys is better than the other is not something I believe.

If Biden wins, I anticipate a reaction not unlike January 6th. Sure, as others point out, Trump’s support has dwindled in terms of their aggression, but that doesn’t mean that they aren’t gearing up and waiting. Am I giving them too much credit? Absolutely. They all spent more time putting together those cool looking and intimidating matching outfits than they did doing their social studies homework in school. However, there’s nothing worse than a bunch of amped up and armed idiots blindly following someone like Trump.

If Trump wins, I anticipate more of what we saw during his first term… left-wing retaliatory divide and conquer techniques, and right-wing cannibalization based on the antiquated views of the more conservative people in the party.

I’m certainly concerned what the future has in store for this country, because it’s not looking good either way. There ARE going to be riots, it’s just a matter of WHO will be participating in them.
 

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I don't understand how inflation is such a problem given it has receded rapidly without the usual side-effects of a substantial recession or increase in unemployment.

Cost of living rises, wages stagnate. Unemployment drops on paper because you have more people working multiple jobs, and part of the unemployment numbers are based on open positions within companies. I don’t believe that it is solely based on unemployment claims, because not everyone unemployed qualifies for those benefits. More often than not, those discrepancies are found in labor-related jobs as opposed to, say, desk jockeys.

Then, there’s the whole element of price-gouging on essential items. Profits over people. The federal government has yet to step in and put a stop to the rising costs of certain items, and they’re not exactly doing what they should do to reduce costs of other items that aren’t necessarily being hiked up because of corporate greed, but other factors like fuel costs.
 
Cost of living rises, wages stagnate. Unemployment drops on paper because you have more people working multiple jobs, and part of the unemployment numbers are based on open positions within companies. I don't believe that it is solely based on unemployment claims, because not everyone unemployed qualifies for those benefits. More often than not, those discrepancies are found in labor-related jobs as opposed to, say, desk jockeys.

Then, there's the whole element of price-gouging on essential items. Profits over people. The federal government has yet to step in and put a stop to the rising costs of certain items, and they're not exactly doing what they should do to reduce costs of other items that aren't necessarily being hiked up because of corporate greed, but other factors like fuel costs.

The unemployment rate is solely based on survey responses by individuals so isn't affected by people taking multiple jobs. Whilst the number of people working multiple jobs has increased a bit during the inflation surge it has only risen to about the level seen before the pandemic.

Real wages are currently stagnant on a YoY basis but at least that accounts for inflation. The hope is that now price rises are smaller that real wages will begin to increase again.

Price gougers can die in a fire. They remind me of the idiots who hoarded essential supplies at the start of the pandemic.
 

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The unemployment rate is solely based on survey responses by individuals so isn't affected by people taking multiple jobs. Whilst the number of people working multiple jobs has increased a bit during the inflation surge it has only risen to about the level seen before the pandemic.

Right, so if you’re John Doe that works in a factory 10 hours a day, you’re not necessarily going to be responding to a survey. Most people at that level aren’t going to be that involved in the politics of it all, because there’s no time for that when you’re in survival mode.

Real wages are currently stagnant on a YoY basis but at least that accounts for inflation. The hope is that now price rises are smaller that real wages will begin to increase again.

The hope may be, but opportunistic corporations are still seizing every penny they can under the guise of attempting to balance their books or recover from the pandemic or whatever their excuse is this week.

Price gougers can die in a fire. They remind me of the idiots who hoarded essential supplies at the start of the pandemic.

The idiots that did that are, in part, the reason why things are the way they are now, I believe. The pandemic was a global opportunity to see just how far people would go for certain things, how much they would spend, etc. Remember when toilet paper doubled in price after the hoarding? That’s music to the ears of anyone with a supply and demand mentality.
 
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That still sounds like overblown rioting to me at worst. Calling it an all out "war" like the actual wars going on overseas is way too grandiose a term for it.
I don't think we're calling it a war, per se. We're more likely to get war over what Putin and China are doing if Trump wins.

But if he loses, it's hard to imagine not having some level of civil war. Maybe not in the way of armies, but cyberwarfare and the divide that comes with a civil war are definite possibilities. The man can't admit he loses.
 

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I don't think we're calling it a war, per se. We're more likely to get war over what Putin and China are doing if Trump wins.

But if he loses, it's hard to imagine not having some level of civil war. Maybe not in the way of armies, but cyberwarfare and the divide that comes with a civil war are definite possibilities. The man can't admit he loses.

Depending on who you ask, that civil war has been going on since the last one ended.

I would sooner expect a lot of posturing before any actual acts of violence occur. The problem is, dancing around a powder keg with a lit match the way people like to do… the acts of violence are sure to follow.
 
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I don't think we're calling it a war, per se. We're more likely to get war over what Putin and China are doing if Trump wins.

But if he loses, it's hard to imagine not having some level of civil war. Maybe not in the way of armies, but cyberwarfare and the divide that comes with a civil war are definite possibilities. The man can't admit he loses.

Well get more domestic terrorism from the alt right I bet
 
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I don't understand how inflation is such a problem given it has receded rapidly without the usual side-effects of a substantial recession or increase in unemployment.
it's all about perception. in surveys and polls when people are asked what they think the current rate of inflation is, they usually overshoot it by about 4% (republicans tend to overshoot it by even more). inflation HAS receded rapidly. unemployment has been startlingly low for months. but unless you listen to, like, public radio every day, you don't know that. you just know what you feel, and that's that things at the grocery store cost more now than they did four years ago or even just a year ago. therefore, inflation is the worst problem currently imaginable.
 

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It's less "civil war" that I'd be worried about as much as an uptick in mass targeted shootings from where I'm standing.

Not necessarily. As someone very familiar with the district, I was fully expecting there to be a battle between the hood and the Trump supporters as they made their way through to NW back on January 6th. All it would have taken is one local to pop off some shots towards those clowns, or for them to get nervous traversing the hood and fire off some rounds at a local for that to blow up. The political climate has protestors shuffling around to unfamiliar territories, and a bunch of hicks from the southern states aren’t gonna expect to encounter urban America in the nation’s capital the same way pro-life people are going to anticipate pushback in a Bible Belt state.

Well get more domestic terrorism from the alt right I bet

Absolutely. As disgusted as I am to say this… it has been a minute since we’ve seen a Ruby Ridge or Waco or OKC Bombing. Those types are still out there, amassing numbers and awaiting the perfect opportunity to make a move on a group that they know they can take a hit out on, because all they know how to do is punch down.
 
Absolutely. As disgusted as I am to say this… it has been a minute since we’ve seen a Ruby Ridge or Waco or OKC Bombing. Those types are still out there, amassing numbers and awaiting the perfect opportunity to make a move on a group that they know they can take a hit out on, because all they know how to do is punch down.

One thing I hate (other than you know the actual act) is that it is never called terrorism by the media, but that is what it is.
 

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One thing I hate (other than you know the actual act) is that it is never called terrorism by the media, but that is what it is.

You can blame a lot of that on labels and language. We didn’t start really hearing the phrase “domestic terrorist” until the Timothy McVeigh arrest, and after that… we as a nation reserved that label for very specific acts, despite the evolution that we’ve seen.
 

Kat

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Two, I think many of them thought their guy would pardon them and they had immunity. But that didn't happen. They saw the arrests and convictions and decided to nope out of that before it affected them personally.
Yes, exactly. His followers obeyed his orders and marched on the capitol, and they were ostracized, fired, and jailed in response. It did nothing to further their interests and severely hurt them. Trump didn't even try to protect them. They've clearly learned that lesson.

I really hate to put this out there, but I do believe a right winger will shoot up a polling station and the consequences of that will be felt extremely hard in gerrymandered areas, but maginified ten times if trumpty dumpty wins.
They don't need to, because it's even worse than that: many voting right protections were been rolled back during Trump's administration, so many people who want to vote will be completely unable to.

Also, I was more or less talking about THE ELECTION ITSELF, as in election night and the results and the things leading up to it, not what you expect to happen after it's done.
I think Biden will win. I'm not convinced Trump will even be healthy and coherent enough to stand a chance when the election arrives. And all his trials will suck up his time, money, and energy that could've gone towards campaigning. Plus Trump is draining so many resources from the Republican party, they're going to struggle to win their down ticket races, too.

Yeah, some people will support Trump regardless, but those people aren't the ones who decide elections.

I somewhat agree though I do like some of the things Biden has done.
Biden has done lots of great stuff that nobody has heard of. It's really frustrating. (Yes, he's done some stuff that's not good, too. But he's not awful.)

biden and everyone surrounding him is fucking stupid and out-of-touch. the tiktok ban (and his fumbles related to what’s going on in gaza/the west bank) is going to hurt him way worse than he expects and inflation is such a problem that he’s gonna get jimmy cartered if something drastic doesn’t change. i don’t expect it to. but if there’s one thing i’ve learned about modern american politics over the last decade it’s that it’s pointless to try to predict anything
Tiktok isn't being banned, it's just being taken out of China's control. I don't get why anybody objects to the idea that China shouldn't be in control of a major social media company in the USA. Yeah, the other ones aren't owned by great people either, but there's not much that can legally be done by that.

Inflation isn't his fault, that was seen worldwide after covid. It's improved quite a bit recently.

I agree he needs to be tougher with Israel, but that's a lose-lose situation politically. You're the one who's out of touch if you think it'll make him popular to cut off aid to Israel. A LOT of Americans support Israel, and there are important American corporations which do a lot of business there. And anyway, he's not the one who bundled aid to Ukraine with aid to Israel and the tiktok restrictions. (I do absolutely agree those should've been kept separate bills, but him attempting to veto the whole package was not feasible.)

One of the few “conspiracies” I bite on is the fact that the president is just a mascot and a patsy for a party, and not actually a leader or decision-maker. How else can you explain the patterns we’ve seen? It’s the only one that even feels logical to me considering how out of touch both candidates are. You’re not going to tell me that Trump, a NY billionaire dipshit, speaks for farmers and cops and rural people.
That's easy to explain: money and power win elections. Look at how much presidential candidates spend on campaigning. That's why you get no normal people running.

the idea that one of these guys is better than the other is not something I believe
Seriously? You think one guy is not better than the one who committed multiple felonies, undermined democracy, and tried to stage a fucking coup? The one who stole classified documents and almost certainly sold them to our enemies? The one who has no political experience or interest in actually running a country? I'm not saying Biden is my ideal candidate, but he is objectively, hands down, no questions asked, better than that.

We could and should do better than Biden, but don't kid yourself. It's absolutely possible to do much, much worse.

I don't understand how inflation is such a problem given it has receded rapidly without the usual side-effects of a substantial recession or increase in unemployment.
Because the media is pushing that narrative. People engage more with stories that make them angry than make them feel good. See my earlier complaint that you never hear anything about the myriad of good things he's done. It's boring, so nobody cares.

Unemployment drops on paper because you have more people working multiple jobs, and part of the unemployment numbers are based on open positions within companies. I don’t believe that it is solely based on unemployment claims, because not everyone unemployed qualifies for those benefits.
No, unemployment numbers are not at all based on open positions. Unemployment gets high because there's a lack of open positions, so that wouldn't even make sense.

The numbers are sometimes skewed because people give up looking for work, but not because they are working multiple jobs. Unemployment is so low right now that that's unlikely to be a major factor, though. You see that more when unemployment is high for a long time.

Right, so if you’re John Doe that works in a factory 10 hours a day, you’re not necessarily going to be responding to a survey.
If you're working ten hours a day in a factory, then you aren't unemployed.

Even in tech, which is notorious for recent layoffs, people are still finding work fine. I can't tell you the number of people we've tried to hire who have subsequently immediately quit for a better offer or don't even bother to fill out their hiring paperwork (they don't say why, but whatever the reason, they clearly aren't desperate for the job).

I'm sure some people are still struggling, and some industries will be the exception, but overall unemployment is absolutely low.

IMO, it's the 2028 election which will be the interesting one. Will the Dems finally get their shit together and run somebody that most people can get excited about?

I wish we could get ranked choice voting. It'd mostly solve our two party nonsense and how candidates who stand out for the wrong reasons (e.g. Trump) get the majority of votes while reasonable candidates split votes from reasonable people. But it'll never happen because the current system benefits both of the existing parties.
 

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That's easy to explain: money and power win elections. Look at how much presidential candidates spend on campaigning. That's why you get no normal people running.

That wasn’t so much about how they win, but about representation of the candidates.

Seriously? You think one guy is not better than the one who committed multiple felonies, undermined democracy, and tried to stage a fucking coup? The one who stole classified documents and almost certainly sold them to our enemies? The one who has no political experience or interest in actually running a country? I'm not saying Biden is my ideal candidate, but he is objectively, hands down, no questions asked, better than that.

Biden’s a career politician, which makes him a crook by default. You don’t get to stay in politics for as long as he has without serving a couple special interests, a few quid pro quo’s, or some sore knees. Look no further than his track record of legislation dating back to before his run as VP for examples regarding the demographics he’s attempting to represent and you tell me if that’s someone you want on your side. He’s just as prejudice and judgemental as any other white bread politician, he just isn’t as blatant as the competition and he thinks everyone’s memory of his political past is as hazy as his.

We could and should do better than Biden, but don't kid yourself. It's absolutely possible to do much, much worse.

That’s absolutely true.

No, unemployment numbers are not at all based on open positions. Unemployment gets high because there's a lack of open positions, so that wouldn't even make sense.

The numbers are sometimes skewed because people give up looking for work, but not because they are working multiple jobs. Unemployment is so low right now that that's unlikely to be a major factor, though. You see that more when unemployment is high for a long time.

Pre-wake and bake. You get it.

If you're working ten hours a day in a factory, then you aren't unemployed.

See above response.
 
House: seems likely the Dems will pick up some seats based on redistricting alone. Abortion is also literally on the ballot in a few states. They might take the house back.

Senate: dems will lose at least one seat guaranteed (WV). Other close ones might stay D thanks to previously mentioned ballot measures. Probably a 50-50 split or 51-49 in favor of Republicans.

President: right now I believe Biden will win again. The polls are still almost entirely meaningless for another couple of months, but once it became clear that Trump and Biden were the actual nominees (somehow until everyone else dropped out something like a third of people assumed it wouldn't be a rematch). I'll continue to monitor to see how it looks on a state by state basis, as the polls will start to matter more 3-4 months before the election.
 
Dude, how is somebody equally bad compared to Trump just for being in politics a long time? Even given everything that Kat described? If you are going to stand by the "equally bad" argument, then you've lost all credibility. You're just sticking to that for the sake of it, that your screams being hardwired against saying you prefer Biden over anybody, no matter who that other person is. Abandoning all rationality or logic or critical thinking.
 
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Dude, how is somebody equally bad compared to Trump just for being in politics a long time? Even given everything that Kat described? If you are going to stand by the "equally bad" argument, then you've lost all credibility. You're just sticking to that for the sake of it, that your screams being hardwired against saying you prefer Biden over anybody, no matter who that other person is. Abandoning all rationality or logic or critical thinking.
I agree mostly here. Biden is NOT nearly as bad as Trump was and is. Policy-wise or otherwise. Yes, he's bungled the whole Israel-Gaza war. But Trump bungled COVID which was indiscriminate of race.

Economy? Come on now... You have to know that each new incoming president inherits his predecessor's economy for AT LEAST the first two years. Meaning that great economy Trump touted? A result of holdover Obama stuff. The terrible economy the Republicans and Trump are pushing on Biden? A result of the holdover Trump policies.

No matter how you slice it, unless you were a part of the elite 1%, Donald Trump is the worst president this country has ever had, bar none and it isn't even remotely close. We saw zero benefits from him. Millions dead due a mangled COVID response. America placed as a laughingstock on a global scale. America alienated on a global scale. Dictators and criminals praised at every turn. Racism, misogyny, bigotry and elitism running worse than it ever has been before. The amount of VIOLENT outbreaks, particularly in schools, at an all time high. A TWICE impeached president due to crimes committed for selfish reasons, only "exonerated" because he owned the Senate (I mean he literally withheld aid that was agreed to by law unless the government dug up/made up dirt on his political opponent AND incited an insurrection!). He appointed 3 (!!!) incredibly right wing justices to the supreme court that is one by one dismantling any and all laws that hold sanctity unless you are a rich white man. Two of those justices he shouldn't have been allowed to appoint (Gorsuch should have been Merrick Garland and an Obama appointee and Coney-Barrett should have been a Biden appointee; Kavanaugh should have been in jail, not serving in the highest court in this nation). Oh, and he lied over 34,000 times in four years in fact-checked ways... I'm sure there is PLENTY more I'm missing, but this is what came to mind just off the top.

And, speaking of that first impeachment... That same country was then invaded by Russia a couple years later. And with the evidence out in the current Trump trial, we know he had people fabricating stories about rivals. It's one thing to get a tabloid to do it. It's another to bribe a sovereign foreign nation to do it!

The man is a DANGEROUS individual for this country and democracy. And I am not sure how even one smart individual can fathomably vote for him... even if his fucking opponent were a god damned turnip.
 
I agree. I'm obviously not American but if I did live there Biden over Trump is not exactly a difficult choice.

Meanwhile Singapore has had three Prime Ministers since 1959. To put that in perspective, the current guy was in charge when GTA San Andreas came out. And he's paid $1.62 million a year even after a 36% pay cut. So it could be worse!
 
I wish we could get ranked choice voting. It'd mostly solve our two party nonsense and how candidates who stand out for the wrong reasons (e.g. Trump) get the majority of votes while reasonable candidates split votes from reasonable people. But it'll never happen because the current system benefits both of the existing parties.

It works to an extent, but I would say that ranked choice has not prevented Australia from electing nutjobs like Tony Abbott (the self-proclaimed "suppository of all wisdom") and Scott Morrison, who is best remembered for holidaying in Hawaii when his country was on fire and swearing himself into joint cabinet positions without bothering to tell the existing holders that he's sharing their job.

I prefer multi-member systems like MMP, but they don't really work in your highly federal system and besides voting districts with more than one member currently violate federal law.
 

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Dude, how is somebody equally bad compared to Trump just for being in politics a long time? Even given everything that Kat described? If you are going to stand by the "equally bad" argument, then you've lost all credibility. You're just sticking to that for the sake of it, that your screams being hardwired against saying you prefer Biden over anybody, no matter who that other person is. Abandoning all rationality or logic or critical thinking.

Sure, Trump has easily done worse in 4 years than Biden did in 4 years. If we’re comparing the totality of their political careers, Biden catches up, which was my point. That dude has contradicted every position he has ran on previously in his career, and that’s a problem, because as dangerous as Trump is at face value… someone like Biden is dangerous in the same way a camouflaged venomous snake is. Don’t get me wrong, it is not lost on me how fucked up those 4 years were, but I can’t say that 40 years of Biden (or any of those other career guys) or the others that set the stage for an asshole like Trump to even become a consideration is any less fucked up.

I’m simply trying to look at the big picture, and I can’t help but blame those guys that set everything in motion for a guy like Trump to get elected in the first place. Democrat. Republican. Doesn’t really matter which side they’re on, because there are career guys on both sides that have contributed to the mess that led up to 2016 and 2020. If you’re a democrat, and you couldn’t collectively come up with a candidate to secure a victory over him, what does that say about your party? If you’re a Republican, and you couldn’t come up with a candidate better than him, what does that say about your party?

For the record, I haven’t voted for Trump either time he ran, and I don’t intend to this. He’s a clown, and the only redeeming thing about him is the jokes that come at his expense.
 

Mark

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GW Elder
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I find a lot of times the both side arguments are used to lessen the destruction caused by the current Republicans and make them seem less bad

Which is exactly why when someone like me makes a comment down those lines, it’s perceived that way. I get it. It’s a form of deflection, but there’s nothing for me to deflect from. I just happen to think they’re two different kinds of garbage human being that represent two ends of a system that hasn’t done anything to truly help anyone but themselves in quite some time.

January 6 ALONE means that anyone else couldn't possibly "catch up" no matter how long they've been in office (even though that's a weak and desperate argument to make because we're talking about an 8 year job, max).

I would definitely agree with that sentiment if they were more successful than they were, but despite breaching the Capitol and the assaults, they really didn’t accomplish much for their numbers. Maybe I’m thinking too theoretically, but I can’t help but think that if a mob of that size really wanted to seize control, they would have at least made a better attempt. I’m not trying to downplay what they did manage to do, but I don’t think those clowns collectively had it in them to actually pull off something of that scale. With that in my mind, it’s hard for me to see a single day of dumbasses being dumbasses as a situation more or less destructive than people that were actually in a position of power and actively contributing to decisions that negatively impacted generations of people. Is it the implication that they could have overturned the government that makes people think it’s such a bad situation? I’m genuinely asking, because I have always been of the mentality that people who are bold enough to do things like think they can overthrow the federal government dressed like wannabe soldiers do them for attention and a reaction from people, and the only way that they’ll go away is if you just don’t feed into it. Terrorism wins if you’re terrorized, you know? I’ll gladly admit if I got this wrong, but I just don’t like the idea of treating those fools like a force to reckon with because as soon as there’s fear… they’ve already won. That doesn’t mean they should be ignored, either, it’s just not something I think we should fear as much as the media made it out to be. Call it a riot, call it breaking and entering a federal building, call it murder and assault, but those clowns were no closer to running the show than you or I.
 
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