VTS Mafia The Morgue (Year 2)

[VashTheStampede]

canadaguy is notoriously trigger happy in Mafia and his Vigilante last time was more akin to a spree killer

I wouldn't trust him not to shush me

 

[Kat]

Local made a list of animal references and missed all of Alu's. Two were quotes, but he should've seen "wolves". Interesting...

 

[TD]

CG did seem suspicious to me at first too, but I feel like the real librarian would've refuted his claim if nothing else. He's confirmed good imo.

Devil's advocate approach because again - I always think of plays I would make.

canadaguy could be mafia claiming librarian to try and get the real librarian to out themselves. The fact he stayed at 30 on Day 2 is weird.

Without the librarian there's no post cap so good luck trying to discern tells in that chaos.

However, I have to acknowledge that most players are not me and the likelihood of this is low.

Local was being overtly shady from the very beginning. At that point they had no idea what clues would be revealed or if anybody else was the snitch. Maybe the original plan was to post a fake clue? But why change now when reiterating information doesn't prove anything except that the two animal clue is legit?

Tommy also put Zell in the spotlight yesterday and Zell is the only one on the radar for that clue so it could be just to eliminate Zell.

Again - something I would do but I find it unlikely Local would.

He also voted not guilty on Fool pretty quickly. I could be wrong, of course, but the more I read his posts, the more my feeling he's mafia grows.

He voted not guilty basically right after FR claimed Peeping Tom, didn't he? I think that's notable especially for a newer player.

Alu has two animal references in the first day: he mentions wolves and quoted someone mentioning chicken parmigiana.

I can't find a second animal reference from Alu on the second day, but he did post a lot so it's possible I mentioned something subtle.

...well now I'm curious. Thanks for doing the legwork on Day 1. I'm going to take another look at Day 2.

Also, no players went over 30 posts the second day, even though cg proved himself as librarian and insisted it was safe to go over. I understand why Mafia or the bomber wouldn't, but it's surprising nobody else did.

I'm shocked no townies went over 30. It's literally the easiest way to show innocence.

What I find interesting?

Zell was the one who said everyone should go over 30... but even he hasn't.

 

[TD]

I feel like Kat and I are in a race vs the actual alive players to figure it out.

 

[Benzine]

i know who the wolves are heheheehe

 

[TD]

i know who the wolves are heheheehe

 

[TD]

I can't find a second animal reference from Alu on the second day, but he did post a lot so it's possible I mentioned something subtle.

If anyone we suspect does have this tell, they've hidden it well!

So uh..

Post in thread 'Mafia Legacy Year Two (Night 2/Day 2)' https://gwforums.com/threads/mafia-legacy-year-two-night-2-day-2.938/post-54189

Ron SWANson?

 

[TD]

So Alu has 2 animals mentioned in both Day 1 and Day 2..

And nobody alive has noticed.

 

[TD]

Oh and Alu is definitely the type to try to ask if quoting an animal mention is allowed.

 

[VashTheStampede]

i know who the wolves are heheheehe

I've got a pretty good idea

 

[Dean]

I know who the Clairvoyant is

 

[Benzine]

so do i

 

[Dean]

Harvest moon lookin' big tonight

 

[Kat]

So uh..

Post in thread 'Mafia Legacy Year Two (Night 2/Day 2)' https://gwforums.com/threads/mafia-legacy-year-two-night-2-day-2.938/post-54189

Ron SWANson?

Amazing catch! I never would've noticed that. If that counts, then he can fly under the radar forever. Vash, can you confirm?

 

[Benzine]

Amazing catch! I never would've noticed that. If that counts, then he can fly under the radar forever. Vash, can you confirm?

you just did the same thing, you said cat and tic and fly

 

[Kat]

you just did the same thing, you said cat and tic and fly

Yeah, that did occur to me, it's almost too big of a loophole unless it has restrictions.

 

[Benzine]

It was the first thing I asked

 

[Benzine]

I couldn't disguise my tells in other words. I wanted to have the ends of words and the start the following word be how I sneaked my tells in.

 

[Kat]

Vash said in the day thread that even badgering wouldn't count, so Swanson surely doesn't. Hmm.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Amazing catch! I never would've noticed that. If that counts, then he can fly under the radar forever. Vash, can you confirm?

Does not count

 

[TD]

...so that doesn't count... but quoting does.

Interesting.

 

[VashTheStampede]

...so that doesn't count... but quoting does.

Interesting.

Hiding a word within a word is a bit more than having the unadulterated word appear in your post window

 

[Benzine]

i think that's a foxing mistake.

 

[Benzine]

wait quoting counts? hahaha that's sick

 

[Kat]

Hiding a word within a word is a bit more than having the unadulterated word appear in your post window

I agree, that's a reasonable place to draw the line.

 

[TD]

Hiding a word within a word is a bit more than having the unadulterated word appear in your post window

I'm just going to be honest. I don't agree. I think people will look more at what someone actually wrote vs what they quoted.

I feel for the people trying to figure this out in game at this point and I would not be surprised if there's a lot of frustration if it turns out tells were in quotes. I'd be frustrated with it so I'm sure there will be others.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I'm just going to be honest. I don't agree. I think people will look more at what someone actually wrote vs what they quoted.

I do agree with this. The point is to try and hide it and I felt that they might need more places to hide.

But on the other hand, you thought to ask about it. And you aren't the only one who thought to ask. So it's not  that outside the lines.

But (x2) I do understand it could have been the wrong call. I dislike the idea of changing the rule mid-game though, so we'll have to revisit in the post-game.

 

[Kat]

I think it depends on how the clue is worded, because there's nothing in the description of tells that suggests it's text written by the person. These games have been too easy for the town for a while, so making tells too obvious would only make the game less fun. It's their fault for making bad assumptions. Nobody has considered images either, which I would've expected to be allowed.

 

[Kat]

Interesting "defense" by Jon: "I have no reason to allude to a con man being in the game other than for my own benefit". Obviously it would be for his own benefit, what other reason would it be for?

Maybe you're right, and he's just a new player, and that's why he seems sus.

 

[Kat]

Tubby is hinting at patsy. Very interesting. It's a good false role claim if you want to avoid the mafia killing you for being the bomber.

 

[TD]

I do agree with this. The point is to try and hide it and I felt that they might need more places to hide.

But on the other hand, you thought to ask about it. And you aren't the only one who thought to ask. So it's not  that outside the lines.

But (x2) I do understand it could have been the wrong call. I dislike the idea of changing the rule mid-game though, so we'll have to revisit in the post-game.

Thanks for taking the feedback. I'm just a little thrown off right now. When I was gathering potential clues I was looking at part of a word. A lot of this stemmed from the food example you provided in the setup for food and you used the example of "egging him on", but now it sounds like that wouldn't be allowed based on badgering either.

And to be honest - the main reason I asked was because I actually expected you to say no and I wanted to rule out. I've been getting good guy feels from Zell and he's the one been narrowed down so I was trying to figure it out. I asked mainly because my cold read has Zell as non-mafia.

I do appreciate that you won't change stuff midgame. I've been burned by that in a big way and it's not fun.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Good point on the "egging you on" thing. That was from when we were first working on the Tells and before we actually starting documenting them. Like a Beta version. Thats an error on my part. It would not be allowed in the finished version.

 

[TD]

I think it depends on how the clue is worded, because there's nothing in the description of tells that suggests it's text written by the person.

This is the wording I received:

Jimmy Zoos has to post the name of an animal twice per day.

 

[TD]

I honestly just feel bad for them because this isn't a minor mechanic - it's a pretty major one.

I know when I play these games I'll never read the quoted post and only what the person says. I'm going to assume I'm not the only one.

Even when I found out it was a thing - I haven't really bothered to go digging except on Alu. lol

 

[VashTheStampede]

So the question before me now is: should I announce that quotes count for that Tell?

Or would that be unfair to Jimmy Zoos?

 

[Benzine]

i thought this was a safe space?

 

[Kat]

So the question before me now is: should I announce that quotes count for that Tell?

Or would that be unfair to Jimmy Zoos?

I wouldn't announce it. That's too obvious, people will start focusing on quotes because they know it was announced for a reason.

 

[TD]

So the question before me now is: should I announce that quotes count for that Tell?

Or would that be unfair to Jimmy Zoos?

Double edged sword because it's unfair to Jimmy if you say it but unfair to those who received the tell to not.

I think you don't announce it, take it as a learning opportunity, and if you still want to leave it in make it clear in the rules somewhere next game.

 

[Kat]

You could tell the Mafia that quotes don't count anymore, which would make the tells easier to see. We can't find anybody besides Zell with that tell even with the clarifications, so probably they could still manage to hide (assuming it's not Zell, in which case it doesn't really matter either way). I personally like the quote exception, but the wording of the clue is borderline misleading.

 

[Kat]

If the clue was something more like "their post(s) for the day must include at least two animal names" then I'd say it's 100% fine as is. So maybe just adjust your clues a bit in the future. I agree they need to be able to hide, and that knowing the tell shouldn't be enough to easily find the person with it.

 

[TD]

This is part of the ongoing conundrum I have with Zell's games. You can't possibly cover every scenario in rules and role descriptions.

But on the same side of things - it's tough to accept that questions like this can occur behind the scenes and it gives an unfair advantage. It shouldn't be on players to ask a question about a role to get an answer.

One thought I had is something similar to what Tubby did - he posted a Q&A at the start of Day 1. Presumably because people were asking questions.

Something like that may be a good compromise for everyone for future games.

 

[VashTheStampede]

BTW this Mafia Trivia sucks @Christina

 

[Kat]

But on the same side of things - it's tough to accept that questions like this can occur behind the scenes and it gives an unfair advantage. It shouldn't be on players to ask a question about a role to get an answer.

I'm not sure I agree in this case. Tells are intentionally vague. It depends on what the purpose of them is: to make it easier to find the Mafia, or to give people more reasons to be suspicious and drive conversation? If it's the former, then sure, be very clear about what tells could be. If it's the latter, then a lack of clarity could help the goal.

This is intentionally a game of imperfect information. I wouldn't mind if the exact rules around tells changed each game and if Vash refused to clarify to the town at all. Does "badgering" count? Does a screenshot with "lamb chop"? Does quoting "chicken parmigiana"? Who knows? Accuse the person and figure it out based on their reaction.

 

[TD]

I like how Jon is being grilled for mentioning Con Man now.

C'mon guys. He's heavily implied it every single day phase.

Honestly shit like this is why I get annoyed that I always get called a shit poster. Yeah, I post a lot but I pay attention to everything.

 

[Benzine]

you guys should consider if some tells are significantly easier and one might be significantly tougher to spot. perhaps it's meant to be hard unless you get really lucky by hitting a tell, then getting a hard tell

 

[Kat]

I like how Jon is being grilled for mentioning Con Man now.

C'mon guys. He's heavily implied it every single day phase.

Honestly shit like this is why I get annoyed that I always get called a shit poster. Yeah, I post a lot but I pay attention to everything.

Right? What was that bullshit of "you've only just mentioned it today"? I suck at picking up hints, and even I noticed him hinting at it the entire game.

 

[TD]

I'm not sure I agree in this case. Tells are intentionally vague. It depends on what the purpose of them is: to make it easier to find the Mafia, or to give people more reasons to be suspicious and drive conversation? If it's the former, then sure, be very clear about what tells could be. If it's the latter, then a lack of clarity could help the goal.

This comment was more about these games overall than specifically this. It comes up in every single game I've seen.

I can see the argument you're making but the tell system alone makes it harder to find them. I mean - look at what's happening in this game. They have no clue what the tells are and even the one tell that has been revealed three times they have no clue.

Benzine died and no one even talked about his tell until after he died.

I honestly don't think they need "extra help".

 

[Benzine]

every time i've been a good guy i've played well

every time i've been a bad guy i've either been the unlucky one, which is fine, or i have personally played super poorly. i reckon it's fine too.

i haven't read the thread, did they guess my tell?

 

[VashTheStampede]

I like how Jon is being grilled for mentioning Con Man now.

C'mon guys. He's heavily implied it every single day phase.

Honestly shit like this is why I get annoyed that I always get called a shit poster. Yeah, I post a lot but I pay attention to everything.

Local said he didn't mention it until today and the sound of my hand slapping my forehead startled the cats

 

[Kat]

every time i've been a good guy i've played well

every time i've been a bad guy i've either been the unlucky one, which is fine, or i have personally played super poorly. i reckon it's fine too.

i haven't read the thread, did they guess my tell?

Is it saying "haha"? If so, then yes.