Regarding Betrayal

[VashTheStampede]

Some people don't realize that there have been conversations that they are not privy to and want to keep giving their opinion on a matter that is tangentially related to them at best. Ok, cool, whatever.

I'm just going to type out my feelings on the matter just so everyone knows where I stand and hopefully we can all just move on.

There are jokes and then there's "it's just a joke".
There are games and then there's "It's just a game".

When one party is admittedly, by their own words, being petty and spiteful, while simultaneously making "jokes" it makes it feel like it's not a joke. It feels like lashing out.

It's hard for me to reconcile "I was just playing the game" with "I am acting out of spite".

That is mainly why I was unhappy with what was being said.

This could very well just be a difference in culture and upbringing. Some people could just be more in touch with their feelings than others. There are countless reasons some people react differently in situations than other people. There is no "correct response". It's a disagreement, and it happens.

From my side of the situation, I am content with the resolutions that have happened both publicly and privately. I truly believe that no harm was intended by anyone involved, whether or not it was actually inflicted.

I would like to move on and have fun here. Hopefully this is the last I will have to address this matter. But I will damn well continue to address it if it continues to be brought up.

Let's just be decent humans to each other.

 

[Ants!]

This is Thunderdome, so I will start by saying that your face is a butt.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Is it a nice butt?

 

[Smacktard]

I CAME TO THE THUNDERDOME FOR A SPAR. WHAT IS THIS TALK OF "FEELINGS" AND "RESPECT"?

 

[Ants!]

Is it a nice butt?

Maybe with the right pair of pants on your head

 

[VashTheStampede]

I CAME TO THE THUNDERDOME FOR A SPAR. WHAT IS THIS TALK OF "FEELINGS" AND "RESPECT"?

I'm working the long con

The true betrayal will be all the more devastating

 

[shortkut]

Two things

1. Serious on initial topic I think it’s possible to be petty without being spiteful. Pettiness is usually insignificant while spiteful is often with malicious intent. I did admit to being petty, even said it in the wolf chat before I acted on anything to try to force Christina’s hand in game, as we discussed in detail, there was no malicious intent. Other that that, I’ve said everything else privately and I think we’re in a good place.

This is Thunderdome, so I will start by saying that your face is a butt.

2. To show we were in a good place, @Christina sent me a picture of you contemplating pressing send on your opening post

 

[VashTheStampede]

I guess the real questions are: does an assface have a faceass?

And if so, does either anus have teeth?

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I have no problem with apologizing to you got it. I had no malicious intent, but it came across that way to you.

What I have a problem with is Cole's responses implying I'm a shitty husband. And that's why people have jumped in saying "in games with my wife..." And such.

 

[Local Hero]

and want to keep giving their opinion on a matter that is tangentially related to them at best. Ok, cool, whatever.

 

[VashTheStampede]

What I have a problem with is Cole's responses implying I'm a shitty husband.

Well then I guess you know better than most how I felt in the moment. Because that's exactly what I thought you were doing as well.

It fucking sucks and is rage inducing.

I'm very glad that you sorted me out that it wasn't your intent.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I have no problem with apologizing to you got it. I had no malicious intent, but it came across that way to you.

What I have a problem with is Cole's responses implying I'm a shitty husband. And that's why people have jumped in saying "in games with my wife..." And such.

This in particular



Is why people were jumping in saying "in games with my wife..."

Because yes, it was solely about in game shit and people were talking about how they would outright admit to betraying their wives in games for fun.

You didn't appreciate and were offended by it, and that's fine. I apologized and will continue to do so. But Cole went too far. None of what he said was in game and it came from a place of disbelief that anyone could think differently than him.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

He didn't need to get involved to get me to apologize to you. He stepped in it and crossed the line and hasn't said a word about it to me since.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Oh one thing I did not address:

I absolutely would betray Christina for a win. In a fucking heartbeat. IF that was my stated goal for a game. That was not the case this time.

But not if it would upset her and make the game less fun for her. I would not rob her of happiness for internet points.

edited for more context

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

This is a game built on lying and betrayals. What I said hurt you and I'm still extremely sorry for it.

But to say no one would ever betray their spouse in a game built on that very thing and imply that everyone should just know that. That's too much. It's not a gray area statement from within the context of the game.

 

[Local Hero]

Tangentially related person here.

I'm my honest opinion, it doesn't matter to me if I'm playing with my wife or just friends.

Either way, I'm playing a game with people I have relationships with.

"Betrayal" is part of the game. Trickery, deceit, lies, etc, are all tactics in a game literally about lynching, shooting, poisoning, and eating people.

A lot of things have been said over the course of these games that can be hurtful in or out of context.

Betrayal should not hurt feelings. Name-calling could hurt feelings, which is why I think the running rate of hurt feelings is at least one person per game.

I'd love if we can all get back to playing, with betrayal, but without name-calling.

 

[VashTheStampede]

I'm guessing/hoping that Cole was lashing out because he knew how hurt we were in the moment and cooler heads will prevail. And he probably felt responsible as he was the one that paired myself and Christina.

Again, people react to things differently than we can expect. I'm not justifying anything, just hoping we can all come out of this with more tools in our emotional toolbelts.

The entire situation is horribly unfortunate and I regret my part in it.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Christina made a good point to me too that part of the initial miscommunication is that some people see the roles as just that, a role to play. Whereas others just see them as powers they have in the game.

Coming from a role-playing background, I'm in the former camp. Christina and I aren't husband and wife in the game. So when you bring up our marriage, it feels like it's coming from outside of the game.

That's something that I didn't consciously realize in the moment.

 

[Fool's Requiem]

Let's just be decent humans to each other.

fuck you, Vash

just kidding

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I'm glad to understand more of the why behind it hitting you like it did. Like I said in the thread itself, I just don't know you well enough and didn't realize the impact it was going to have.

 

[Smacktard]

I'd love if we can all get back to playing, with betrayal, but without name-calling.

You would say that, you pussy.

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I sent Cole a message privately earlier today before posting in here. But I had to post it in here as well. I actually lost sleep last night because of it.

I was initially just going to try to breeze past it. But I ended up not being able to.

 

[Smacktard]

Coming from a role-playing background, I'm in the former camp. Christina and I aren't husband and wife in the game. So when you bring up our marriage, it feels like it's coming from outside of the game.

This is really interesting. I honestly never considered this point of view.

 

[Ants!]

You would say that, you pussy.

No I was the one with all of the pussy in this game.

 

[Local Hero]

You would say that, you pussy.

 

[Smacktard]

Keep it up and you're dead (in Counter-Strike)

 

[shortkut]

I'm guessing/hoping that Cole was lashing out because he knew how hurt we were in the moment and cooler heads will prevail. And he probably felt responsible as he was the one that paired myself and Christina.

Again, people react to things differently than we can expect. I'm not justifying anything, just hoping we can all come out of this with more tools in our emotional toolbelts.

The entire situation is horribly unfortunate and I regret my part in it.

Knowing what I know if Cole, he is very protective of people he likes and respects. I know how strongly he feels about you do, and I have no doubt his reaction was has strong as it was because he was upset that you two were upset

I’ve actually been thinking about this since it happened and while driving to work, I thought of an analogy that works better than in my conversations with you two last night:

In my mind it was the equivalent of us all playing sorry. Vash drew a card and had the option of bumping Christina back to home or a random person. If he bumped Christina, he is guaranteed to win, and she may not. If he bumps the other person, it is still up in the air if vash gets the win. I was using betrayal like vash chose to bump Christina to guarantee his own victory at the cost of hers, not anything outside the span of the game.

I hope this made as much sense in text as it did in my head

 

[Local Hero]

Keep it up and you're dead (in Counter-Strike)

What a corrupt (in wolf) asshole (IRL)

 

[Local Hero]

Spoiler: asshole (IRL)

Even this felt wrong as I type it. I'm sorry Kelly. I'm still posting it

lol I tried to do spoilers but failed. I removed the brackets so you can see my attempt

 

[shortkut]

SPOILER="asshole (IRL) - Even this felt wrong as I type it. I'm sorry Kelly. I'm still posting it "][/SPOILER

lol I tried to do spoilers but failed. I removed the brackets so you can see my attempt

Do you want me to fix it?

 

[Smacktard]

SPOILER="asshole (IRL) - Even this felt wrong as I type it. I'm sorry Kelly. I'm still posting it "][/SPOILER

lol I tried to do spoilers but failed. I removed the brackets so you can see my attempt

Pfft look at this LOSER actually using the middle finger smiley like an angsty preteen wannabe badass

Spoiler

god dammit he's so cool I wish I could be like him also is this how you do spoilers

 

[Local Hero]

Yes please

 

[Smacktard]

Too late, I saw your broken BBcode formatting and my esteem for you has dropped to all new lows

 

[Local Hero]

Spoiler

god dammit he's so cool I wish I could be like him also is this how you do spoilers

This is how you do it. But how do I do it.

I guess there are no shortkuts to life's answers.

 

[Smacktard]

This is how you do it. But how do I do it.

I guess there are no shortkuts to life's answers.

Use these codes:

Spoiler

These ones

You're welcome.

 

[Local Hero]

Spoiler

Thanks

 

[shortkut]

I guess there are no shortkuts to life's answers.

What are you talking about your post is fine

 

[Local Hero]

What are you talking about your post is fine

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

Cole and I are good now. Back to normal shit posting.

 

[shortkut]

Cole and I are good now. Back to normal shit posting.

I’m mad at him for not pairing me with @Ants! or me with himself. Who else can go to the deli counter for some colekuts?

 

[Local Hero]

Cole and I are good now. Back to normal shit posting.

 

[VashTheStampede]

Cole and I are good now. Back to normal shit posting.

For the record, in all of my and Christina's conversations with him regarding the matter, he always defended you as being a good dude.

 

[Tubby23]

If it helps bring everyone together you have permission to pick apart my going way too aggressive, too quickly in this game.

 

[Local Hero]

If it helps bring everyone together you have permission to pick apart my going way too aggressive, too quickly in this game.

 

[Cole]

this is the last I wanna say on the matter, not trying to drag things out, but I need people yo understand the way Alu interpreted it is not the way it was meant to any stretch of the imagination.

as Alu said, we've talked, and we're good. this is the message I sent to him, I've removed part of it that I don't wish to post publicly.

that's not the implication at all. you both specifically mentioned *his wife*. that is not an in game comment any more than mine was. they are not husband and wife in that game, they are lovers. you were both acting out of spite at being in game betrayed, and took it to a real place. a simple change to you both saying "lover" changes the whole context and I'm absolutely fine with it.

I have no problem with you or anyone else playing a game with their spouse and "betraying" them for a win. it's a game.

but you took it to a real place, and that's where I have a problem. because it is SPECIFICIALLY their role to do what they did.

one lover kills themself if the other dies. they are Romeo and Juliet, the whole idea is that they are on opposite teams and just want to be together.

you guys making comments like that DOES bother me, I respect thst you both apologized to Vash and Christina (I didn't and don't need an apology for any of it if you think that's where I'm going, it's not me that was offended.) but both of your snap responses were "it was a joke" and "it was just in the game". if I responded to you, with how upset you are/were, and said "nah man it was just a joke in the game, I was still trying to win with them", would you have accepted it that easily?

I don't think you're a bad husband, I don't know your relationship well enough yo even begin to comment on it. but I know you pretty well, and yes, it's because iknow you, that I absolutely have a hard time believing that if your wife were in the game, and this same event transpired at your expense, if she got upset by it, then you'd be upset by it.

again. I apologize for the way you read it, I don't know your relationship well enough to comment on your status as a husband, but I know YOU, and I have a hard time believing you'd 've okay with it.

maybe I'm wrong. all I know is *they* weren't okay with it, *I* wouldn't have been okay with it, and my significant other wouldn't have been.

I truly do love and respect you, and if you don't believe that, then as you said, you clearly don't know me well either.

at no time did I mean to imply either shortkut or Alu (or anyone else that may agree with Alu) is a bad husband. it is quite the opposite in fact. because I know both of them personally enough to KNOW them, I have/had a hard time believing they wouldn't have reacted in a similar way.

I very well could be wrong about that, but I was not insulting anyone's marriage.

 

[shortkut]

If it helps bring everyone together you have permission to pick apart my going way too aggressive, too quickly in this game.

What are you talking about, your play style was fine

 

[shortkut]

this is the last I wanna say on the matter, not trying to drag things out, but I need people yo understand the way Alu interpreted it is not the way it was meant to any stretch of the imagination.

as Alu said, we've talked, and we're good. this is the message I sent to him, I've removed part of it that I don't wish to post publicly.


at no time did I mean to imply either shortkut or Alu (or anyone else that may agree with Alu) is a bad husband. it is quite the opposite in fact. because I know both of them personally enough to KNOW them, I have/had a hard time believing they wouldn't have reacted in a similar way.

I very well could be wrong about that, but I was not insulting anyone's marriage.

I don’t remember if I said it in the wolf thread or privately to vash and Christina, but I used wife because that is how he knows her. Had you and Tom been paired by the Cupid, I would have said that you were betraying your best friend. In the context of the game, like Alu, I would not have been offended. If it was completely removed from that context and I was accused of betraying my wife in real life, you’re right, I would be pissed.

I would like to think we can go back to how things were before, the change addition of Alu and I being more careful in considering how other people might interpret our comments, rather than just our intentions while saying them

 

[Advocate for Ants! Mouth]

I don’t remember if I said it in the wolf thread or privately to vash and Christina, but I used wife because that is how he knows her. Had you and Tom been paired by the Cupid, I would have said that you were betraying your best friend. In the context of the game, like Alu, I would not have been offended. If it was completely removed from that context and I was accused of betraying my wife in real life, you’re right, I would be pissed.

I would like to think we can go back to how things were before, the change addition of Alu and I being more careful in considering how other people might interpret our comments, rather than just our intentions while saying them

Yeah. I now understand better from a different perspective. Like I said in there early on, I didn't know vash well enough to know it would have been taken the way it was. Now I know him a bit better so it won't happen again.

#learningthroughwolf
#murdersingameonly

 

[shortkut]

#murdersingameonly

#unlessyoucangetawaywithit

 

[Local Hero]