[Not E-Fed] CM Punk Released From AEW

[Dean]

Tony Khan announced today that CM Punk has been released from AEW following the incident at All In in London.

 

[Tubby23]

I'm not surprised by this given everything that was reported this past week as well as everything that has gone on over the last 18 months.

Do we think he lands anywhere else or that's the end of his wrestling career? I'm not sure we will be seeing him ever again.

 

[Dean]

My initial feelings are he is done. Never say never, but he burned a bridge with WWE, now one with AEW. Khan won't use him in RoH. I doubt NJPW will want to pay/that Punk will want to move to Japan. Impact, MLW, GCW, NWA, etc. probably won't have the dollars and he doesn't exactly fit in. Plus there's his age and injuries.

 

[Tubby23]

Yep I also get the sense that he only was back because it was AEW, he'd had a decade to appear with any of the other promotions and we never saw him.

My opinion of him has certainly changed drastically over the last 12 months, I for a long time thought he was this guy who people just didn't get but that usually he was in the right. I now see him as this fairly toxic and arrogant guy who think he's never done any wrong.

 

[Dean]

I think there are definitely two wrongs. Jack Perry, the Young Bucks, Hangman Page, etc. have gained bad reputations for being stubborn and not listening to veterans. Page infamously said in an interview/podcast that he doesn't always listen to advice, and Punk toon personal offense since he listened to Harley Race, Terry Funk, Roddy Piper, Raven, etc. Hangman went off script on live TV about Punk getting Cabana fired or at least not shown on TV. Perry is close with the Bucks and the rest of those guys, so I'm sure that it rubbed him the wrong way. Ryan Nemeth made inappropriate jokes on Twitter and got punished. I don't know. I think Tony needs to lay down the law with the other employees too, so they don't think they were all in the right either. It's a crappy situation all around.

 

[Tubby23]

Oh yeah don't get me wrong those guys are hardly innocent but Punk seems to be the common denominator in getting into a lot of locker room drama.

Even the way he aired Colt Cabana's personal stuff just seems to be pretty shitty.

 

[Crystal]

I only know a little bit about the second conflict, but it certainly seems the only logical decision for AEW. He's done, been done, just move on.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

I think there are definitely two wrongs. Jack Perry, the Young Bucks, Hangman Page, etc. have gained bad reputations for being stubborn and not listening to veterans. Page infamously said in an interview/podcast that he doesn't always listen to advice, and Punk toon personal offense since he listened to Harley Race, Terry Funk, Roddy Piper, Raven, etc. Hangman went off script on live TV about Punk getting Cabana fired or at least not shown on TV. Perry is close with the Bucks and the rest of those guys, so I'm sure that it rubbed him the wrong way. Ryan Nemeth made inappropriate jokes on Twitter and got punished. I don't know. I think Tony needs to lay down the law with the other employees too, so they don't think they were all in the right either. It's a crappy situation all around.

Sorry but this is some bullshit lol. The only person you listed who isn't a damn veteran himself is Perry, and his "slight" is so mild it only makes it funnier that it sent this fragile moron over the edge.

Your guy is a fucking asshole, and that's why he's fired.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Just astounds me that anyone can both sides an issue where the common denominator is one person assaulting others in response to perceived slights. Childish fucking behavior and it shows why fucking no one respected his ass.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

This is what Dave has said was the best description of what went down, for the record:

"Another version, and this would be a neutral source who was not a wrestler but was there and witnessed it and his version was that right after Perry came to the back, Punk went nose-to-nose with him aggressively and asked him if he had a problem. That person said Perry said he was just looking to get heat as a heel. Punk shoved him hard, Perry got in his face and in that version Punk sucker punched him and went for a choke. People immediately broke it up and Khan was yelling at Punk to let him go.

That person said that once they were separated, Punk lunged in Khan's direction but a number of people got in his way while Punk was yelling "I Quit." Monitors were knocked down during all this. Joe was very upset and went to calm Punk down."

 

[Dean]

Sorry but this is some bullshit lol. The only person you listed who isn't a damn veteran himself is Perry, and his "slight" is so mild it only makes it funnier that it sent this fragile moron over the edge.

Your guy is a fucking asshole, and that's why he's fired.

Hangman wasn't exactly some veteran when he was beefing with Punk. First World Title run, relatively unknown before Being The Elite, Bullet Club, and the first All In.

But I digress. Punk was clearly in the wrong and should have been fired, but I don't agree with guys like Jack Perry using real glass when he doesn't know how to work it. Others, like JR and Schiavone, shared the same sentiment.

Punk did not get along with a lot of the locker room, but he did have guys in his corner who he taught and who saw the good he had to offer. FTR, Darby, Ricky, Miro, Adam Cole, Danhausen, and others have talked about some of the good things he's done.

I don't think Punk is right to act unprofessionally and start or escalate fights, but let's not act like the Bucks, Hangman, and Jack Perry were innocent. Takes two to tango.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Hangman has been wrestling for 15 years and has been attached to three of the best to ever do it in singles and tag wrestling lmao. And that's before getting into the fact that his big, horrible rebuke to Punk's offer was "i prefer to figure things out myself."

Perry had cleared the spot, likely the same exact spot that was used at All In, with AEW and its agents. Punk, for some reason, vetoed that and then started spreading shit that made Perry look bad. Perry's comment was the mildest fucking acknowledgment possible, and did not even name him. It's absolutely comical that it sent the dude over the edge.

All you're telling me is that Punk got along with people who were willing to defer to him and/or treat him as the leader he wanted to be, and when that treatment wasn't there he sat there and stewed over it until it was tantrum time.

 

[Mark]

Wasn’t Punk a drama queen way back when he got started at ECW? Or was that the angle then? I’m not familiar with anything recent with him, but I wanna remember there being a bunch of drama with him going all the way back then. Typically… those kinda issues either get clearly solved or become a reoccurring theme. A friend of mine met him a long time ago at a house show working security and said he was a cocky prick even out of character, and I don’t know him to speak against people like that without reason.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

He's always been known as an asshole with issues, yes, but people dealt with it because he drew money. Turns out there's a limit to that, and that limit seems to be "lunged at his billionaire boss after having a fight he initiated broken up".

 

[Dean]

Wasn’t Punk a drama queen way back when he got started at ECW? Or was that the angle then? I’m not familiar with anything recent with him, but I wanna remember there being a bunch of drama with him going all the way back then. Typically… those kinda issues either get clearly solved or become a reoccurring theme. A friend of mine met him a long time ago at a house show working security and said he was a cocky prick even out of character, and I don’t know him to speak against people like that without reason.

He's always had a chip on his shoulder. I will attempt to summarize, but I'll probably mix things up.

Punk got his start on the independent wrestling scene in the Midwest and East Coast. He was in Ring of Honor for several years, wrestled for NWA:TNA during the weekly PPV days, and wound up getting a spot in OVW in like 05 or 06. Guys like Paul Heyman and Jim Cornette have always been high on him. Punk wound up on the WWE version of ECW, but some of the elder statesmen like Tony Atlas, Booker T, and HHH weren't real fond of him, as far as I recall.

Punk felt like he was better than a lot of the guys getting opportunities. He wound up slowly moving up the ranks, but not exactly the big name he eventually became. He won Money in the Bank, cashed in on Edge to become World Champion, had several big moments. He became a heel leader of the Straight Edge Society, had a feud with Jeff Hardy that became personal in real life, had some other big storylines. He cut the pipe bomb promo, eventually got put in a major program with John Cena, did the whole deal where he won the belt as his contract ran out, then he came back, they did a dumb storyline involving a past prime Kevin Nash and HHH, he lost to Alberto Del Rio, and it killed his momentum.

Punk eventually won the WWE belt again and had a ridiculously long run with it (400+ days), then he lost to The Rock at Royal Rumble to set up Rock vs Cena for the title at Mania. Punk wrestled Undertaker at that Mania, I think. Anyway, Punk gets a life threatening staph infection that WWE's doctors misdiagnosed, and that coupled with him being frustrated over how he and others like Bryan Danielson were being overlooked, caused him to quit and take a long absence from wrestling.

 

[Dean]

He's always been known as an asshole with issues, yes, but people dealt with it because he drew money. Turns out there's a limit to that, and that limit seems to be "lunged at his billionaire boss after having a fight he initiated broken up".

I've only heard the lunging at Khan stuff in one report. I have a hard time believing it. Meltzer and others tend to embellish for views/clicks. The truth will come out someday. Punk should've been fired, because he's toxic to that locker room, and there are going to be even more and more severe incidents. But guys like Ryan Nemeth trolling on Twitter, Jack Perry making whiny comments, and the Bucks refusing to work with certain wrestlers, all of that is disrespectful to Khan as well and disruptive. The law needs to be laid down. The wrestlers should not have that much influence. Punk was given it because it was probably a caveat for him to come back, and he has the drawing power and merch sales to command creative control.

 

[Dean]

Regarding my post above, that was mostly historical stuff. After Punk left WWE, he went on Colt Cabana's podcast. Cabana was one of Punk's best friends IRL for a very long time. WWE sued them both over the comments that were made about their medical staff. Punk told Cabana he would pay his legal fees, but some shit went down (some argue Cabana didn't do what the attorney said, some say Punk lied, etc.) Anyway, they wound up going to court, and supposedly Cabana got blackballed from anywhere Punk was, including when he came to AEW. Punk denied it.

 

[Tubby23]

And then Punk chatted heaps of public shit about Colt and sharing bank accounts with his Mum etc.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

I've only heard the lunging at Khan stuff in one report. I have a hard time believing it. Meltzer and others tend to embellish for views/clicks. The truth will come out someday. Punk should've been fired, because he's toxic to that locker room, and there are going to be even more and more severe incidents. But guys like Ryan Nemeth trolling on Twitter, Jack Perry making whiny comments, and the Bucks refusing to work with certain wrestlers, all of that is disrespectful to Khan as well and disruptive. The law needs to be laid down. The wrestlers should not have that much influence. Punk was given it because it was probably a caveat for him to come back, and he has the drawing power and merch sales to command creative control.

I am so glad my introduction to Punk was watching him get kicked by a can in UFC if for no other reason than it means I have 0 nostalgia for the dipshit and thus don't find myself typing up this pathetic shit.

Punk is an asshole, and a hypocrite. He is the definition of someone who can dish it out all day (and felt that was his right) but then absolutely shattered when he got even 1% of it cast back at him.

 

[Dean]

And then Punk chatted heaps of public shit about Colt and sharing bank accounts with his Mum etc.

Lol he did. I think the implication was that Colt told the public he couldn't afford an attorney, but in reality, he was hiding income? I don't know. I took it as an insult, but I didn't know if that was why, or he was making fun of him for not being responsible enough to have his own account.

 

[Dean]

I am so glad my introduction to Punk was watching him get kicked by a can in UFC if for no other reason than it means I have 0 nostalgia for the dipshit and thus don't find myself typing up this pathetic shit.

Punk is an asshole, and a hypocrite. He is the definition of someone who can dish it out all day (and felt that was his right) but then absolutely shattered when he got even 1% of it cast back at him.

Lmao. Pathetic shit? You know as much as I do about what really happened. All you can do is read reports from people who also weren't even there. Relax, dude. You act like he kicked you in the nuts and killed your pet.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Lol he did. I think the implication was that Colt told the public he couldn't afford an attorney, but in reality, he was hiding income? I don't know. I took it as an insult, but I didn't know if that was why, or he was making fun of him for not being responsible enough to have his own account.

You don't hide income by being on someone's bank account lol.

A lot of people are on their parents bank accounts, particularly if those parents are aging and/or you give them money regularly anyway. It simplifies things an incredible amount.

 

[Dean]

You don't hide income by being on someone's bank account lol.

A lot of people are on their parents bank accounts, particularly if those parents are aging and/or you give them money regularly anyway. It simplifies things an incredible amount.

Punk basically threatened to bring the account (and by extension, Cabana's mom's finances) into the lawsuit, and Cabana dropped everything and called him an asshole. And it WAS an asshole move. But I also think Colt was hiding something, whether that's income from the IRS or whatever, I don't know. Getting paid in cash and sticking it in a parents' account may be one way. I don't know. People can be named financial POA and handle finances.

 

[Dean]

The world is shades of gray. Punk being a toxic asshole and Cabana being shady and disingenuous are not mutually exclusive. Same as Punk being a toxic asshole and several wrestlers in AEW being petulant, immature, and shortsighted.

Jack Perry, on the PRESHOW of a PPV, not even the main card... Of a match with little buildup... Wanted to do that spot with the glass. This was after he wanted to do a similar spot on Dynamite. The feud between Perry and Hook is not one of the main storylines. It takes away from other money drawing feuds, like the BCC. If they see someone get thrown through glass on the preshow, why would they give a shit if it happens during the main card? It will have less impact. It takes away from other shit, like Stadium Stampede.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Lmao. Pathetic shit? You know as much as I do about what really happened. All you can do is read reports from people who also weren't even there. Relax, dude. You act like he kicked you in the nuts and killed your pet.

His ass got fired and Tony said tonight that he'd feared for his safety. Kinda fucking says all anyone really needs to know.

Punk basically threatened to bring the account (and by extension, Cabana's mom's finances) into the lawsuit, and Cabana dropped everything and called him an asshole. And it WAS an asshole move. But I also think Colt was hiding something, whether that's income from the IRS or whatever, I don't know. Getting paid in cash and sticking it in a parents' account may be one way. I don't know. People can be named financial POA and handle finances.

Put the nostalgia goggles away and read back what you're typing. Good fucking lord. Literally "Yes, it was an asshole move to target Colt's mother...but I've got a real feeling there was something going on there!"

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Good lord punk fans are a different fucking breed entirely.

 

[Dean]

His ass got fired and Tony said tonight that he'd feared for his safety. Kinda fucking says all anyone really needs to know.


Put the nostalgia goggles away and read back what you're typing. Good fucking lord. Literally "Yes, it was an asshole move to target Colt's mother...but I've got a real feeling there was something going on there!"

I honestly haven't kept up with stuff today, besides what I put in the intro post.

I don't even know what we are arguing about at this point. I'm on board with Punk's termination. He is effectively blackballed anyway.

I don't want to see people praise Jack Perry or act like he didn't do anything wrong when he was being a dumbass.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

We're arguing because I don't respect this mealy-mouthed "yes, yes, he deserved to be fired...but these other people are huge problems as well!" shit.

Jack Perry didn't do anything wrong, and the mental gymnastics you went through to paint a windshield spot as actively hurting AEW is one of the absolute wildest things I've ever seen in my life.

 

[Tubby23]

I think AEW is trying to do it's best to distance itself from being a "sloppy shop" so in many ways I can see how an actual glass spot would be problematic and wise to avoid.

However, Punk escalated things from Perry using a few words towards him on TV to physical violence so he is entirely at fault here even if his original call of no real glass was likely the right one to make.

 

[Dean]

We're arguing because I don't respect this mealy-mouthed "yes, yes, he deserved to be fired...but these other people are huge problems as well!" shit.

Jack Perry didn't do anything wrong, and the mental gymnastics you went through to paint a windshield spot as actively hurting AEW is one of the absolute wildest things I've ever seen in my life.

You must live a boring life, then.

Perry wanted to do this spot on Collision a few weeks ago when he was being chased by Hook and jumped in the vehicle. Punk said "We don't do that on Collision". Tony Khan let Punk call the shots, right or wrong.

Perry does it on the preshow of a PPV and mocks Punk by saying, "It's real glass, cry me a river." He knew what he was doing. He egged Punk on. You can say that is Punk's problem, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Punk should have gone to Tony Khan about the issue if he felt that strongly about it, but let's be honest. Tony may be creative and passionate about wrestling, but between issues with staff, the Brawl Out incident last year, and this other recent petty stuff, Khan has failed to act. He's even made comments about how some competition is good, etc. Seemingly okay with all the drama.

Punk decides to call Perry out and acted in a very unprofessional manner. He also gave Perry exactly what he wanted. I guess I don't see how me saying that Jack Perry was in the wrong as well takes away from Punk being toxic and how he is not good for that locker room.

The writing was on the wall last year. He was injured and basically served whatever suspension concurrently. He was allowed to keep the title and they started using it in storylines. It appeared that Khan was fine with his actions, which were wrong back then, too.

But yeah, go ahead and pretend it's a black/white issue and Punk was 100% in the wrong and Jack Perry was innocent or whatever. I guess it is easier for you that way.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

I think AEW is trying to do it's best to distance itself from being a "sloppy shop" so in many ways I can see how an actual glass spot would be problematic and wise to avoid.

However, Punk escalated things from Perry using a few words towards him on TV to physical violence so he is entirely at fault here even if his original call of no real glass was likely the right one to make.

It was approved by AEW. AEW did not think it needed to be avoided (probably because windshield glass is not window glass, and cracks instead of shatters). It's why they let it happen at All In.

You must live a boring life, then.

Perry wanted to do this spot on Collision a few weeks ago when he was being chased by Hook and jumped in the vehicle. Punk said "We don't do that on Collision". Tony Khan let Punk call the shots, right or wrong.

Perry does it on the preshow of a PPV and mocks Punk by saying, "It's real glass, cry me a river." He knew what he was doing. He egged Punk on. You can say that is Punk's problem, but two wrongs don't make a right.

Punk should have gone to Tony Khan about the issue if he felt that strongly about it, but let's be honest. Tony may be creative and passionate about wrestling, but between issues with staff, the Brawl Out incident last year, and this other recent petty stuff, Khan has failed to act. He's even made comments about how some competition is good, etc. Seemingly okay with all the drama.

Punk decides to call Perry out and acted in a very unprofessional manner. He also gave Perry exactly what he wanted. I guess I don't see how me saying that Jack Perry was in the wrong as well takes away from Punk being toxic and how he is not good for that locker room.

The writing was on the wall last year. He was injured and basically served whatever suspension concurrently. He was allowed to keep the title and they started using it in storylines. It appeared that Khan was fine with his actions, which were wrong back then, too.

But yeah, go ahead and pretend it's a black/white issue and Punk was 100% in the wrong and Jack Perry was innocent or whatever. I guess it is easier for you that way.

Not crafting a bunch of mental hoops to jump through to try to make a toxic asshole who couldn't conduct himself like an adult look aggrieved makes for an easy time, yes. How you're not embarrassed by this shit is beyond me.

 

[Dean]

It was approved by AEW. AEW did not think it needed to be avoided (probably because windshield glass is not window glass, and cracks instead of shatters). It's why they let it happen at All In.

Not crafting a bunch of mental hoops to jump through to try to make a toxic asshole who couldn't conduct himself like an adult look aggrieved makes for an easy time, yes. How you're not embarrassed by this shit is beyond me.

Hook and Perry were visually cut up on their backs and arms after the spot, and for what? Did it make a damn difference? Is anybody going to care more about it? It detracted from the bigger matches, like the casket match, stadium stampede, etc. that were on the main card.

I saw someone explain it like this on social media. If this happened in the late 1990s, and instead of Punk, it was Stone Cold or HHH or Undertaker, and some relatively young up and comer was disrespectful and doing dangerous stuff, then they would kick their ass, knock them down a peg, and nobody bats an eye. It's happened several times, actually.

Times have changed, but there should still be some respect. Jack Perry didn't want to take the advice of a former multi-time world champion who has main evented WrestleMania and sold more merch and tickets than Perry probably ever will. He didn't have to go be snarky about it and instigate. Ryan Nemeth didn't have to go and tweet about Punk being "soft".

How many tickets is any of that going to sell? How much merchandise? They aren't putting this shit on t-shirts. The Bucks refuse to work with Punk. Bucks/Hangman vs Punk/FTR was the money match. Instead, all that money got left on the table.

Everybody looks bad in this situation, not just Punk. His last match is probably gonna be that match against Joe at Wembley. Worse ways to go, I guess. He doesn't get along with this generation for the most part, and he's acted out unprofessionally, he's fought people, he's instigated, he's retaliated. But the same people who shit on Punk for his comments at the All Out press conference that led to Brawl Out give others a pass. It's hypocritical.

I'm glad Punk is gone, for everybody's sake. He needs to stay away from wrestling. AEW needs to get serious about the product and not do stupid shit. It's what's best for everybody.

 

[Tubby23]

It was approved by AEW. AEW did not think it needed to be avoided (probably because windshield glass is not window glass, and cracks instead of shatters). It's why they let it happen at All In.

Yes that's exactly the thing, you don't do these spots on Collision you save them for PPV make them retain value, you avoid them until that point otherwise you're just a sloppy shop that does silly things for little value.
I maintain that the real glass vs fake glass would make no difference to most watchers

 

[Dean]

Yes that's exactly the thing, you don't do these spots on Collision you save them for PPV make them retain value, you avoid them until that point otherwise you're just a sloppy shop that does silly things for little value.
I maintain that the real glass vs fake glass would make no difference to most watchers

And it's not like Punk was the only one against it. Supposedly, JR and Tony Schiavone felt the same way. Assuming you can trust what you read online.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Hook and Perry were visually cut up on their backs and arms after the spot, and for what? Did it make a damn difference? Is anybody going to care more about it? It detracted from the bigger matches, like the casket match, stadium stampede, etc. that were on the main card.

This is the mental gymnastics shit I'm talking about. It in no way detracted from anything, and yet you've constructed this elaborate fantasy where a hardcore spot in a hardcore match fucked things up for half the card.

 

[Tubby23]

I do and I don't, have to read a lot of it with scepticism. I still think overall that Punks the issue but I do agree with the real glass call.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Yes that's exactly the thing, you don't do these spots on Collision you save them for PPV make them retain value, you avoid them until that point otherwise you're just a sloppy shop that does silly things for little value.
I maintain that the real glass vs fake glass would make no difference to most watchers

Reminder that Perry supposedly pitched it as an angle to lead into him being out for two weeks. The spot is perfectly fine in that context.

 

[Tubby23]

Reminder that Perry supposedly pitched it as an angle to lead into him being out for two weeks. The spot is perfectly fine in that context.

Cool, use fake glass. Doesn't make one bit of difference

 

[Joseph Snapple]

There is no need to use fake glass for windshield glass.

 

[Dean]

This is the mental gymnastics shit I'm talking about. It in no way detracted from anything, and yet you've constructed this elaborate fantasy where a hardcore spot in a hardcore match fucked things up for half the card.

If you don't think two people getting slammed onto a vehicle in the preshow didn't detract from people being slammed into a vehicle on the main show, then I don't know what to tell you.

Having the car during the FTW match was pointless and reckless and took away from the "shock" of seeing Trent's mom drive her minivan to the stage during the Stadium Stampede match.

Fans already saw it a few hours before, so why would they give two shits?

 

[Joseph Snapple]

If you don't think two people getting slammed onto a vehicle in the preshow didn't detract from people being slammed into a vehicle on the main show, then I don't know what to tell you.

Having the car during the FTW match was pointless and reckless and took away from the "shock" of seeing Trent's mom drive her minivan to the stage during the Stadium Stampede match.

Fans already saw it a few hours before, so why would they give two shits?

Absolutely deranged.

 

[Dean]

Absolutely deranged.

Lol. So if at the same WrestleMania where Edge speared Mick Foley through a flaming table, on the preshow, two wrestlers did a flaming table spot, that would be cool? Right?

 

[Dean]

Here is a review of the event on 411 Mania:

411MANIA | Hall’s AEW All In 2023 Review

Thomas Hall checks in with his review of AEW All In 2023.

411mania.com

"Hook meets him in the aisle and throws him over/into the limo. Perry takes him onto the top of said limo for a brainbuster though and Hook is down (not out, as you should be after that, but down).

The RVD finger point sets up Rolling Thunder before Perry points at the windshield and says “it’s real glass, cry me a river.” Assuming that’s a reference to the CM Punk incident, grow up."

And again, having Perry roll up in a limo and do spots on it detracted from Sue showing up in her minivan during the Stampede match. There is no need to have the same thing happen twice in one night.

 

[Tubby23]

Absolutely deranged.

Let's refrain from personal attacks

 

[Joseph Snapple]

Let's refrain from personal attacks

I don't think I will. His takes do not fit at all within the observable reality of the show, which is that the things he's claiming Perry ruined were over as hell.

 

[Tubby23]

Look his opinion on it is his opinion, just because it differs from what you think is reality doesn't mean we resort to calling each other names.

We are all adults here.

 

[Joseph Snapple]

He's not claiming it as his opinion, he's claiming it broadly as Perry actively fucking things up for other people, for the show, and for AEW itself with that spot when that demonstrably did not happen.

 

[Dean]

I don't think I will. His takes do not fit at all within the observable reality of the show, which is that the things he's claiming Perry ruined were over as hell.

I just know what I saw, watching it at home with my family. If Jack Perry hasn't already driven a vehicle out there and he and Hook hadn't already gotten cut up by the windshield, it would have been more impactful when Sue showed up in the minivan with her cookies and they did the whole spot. I had already seen a vehicle spot earlier.

Agree to disagree, I don't really give a shit. You're ridiculous if you think Jack Perry didn't do anything wrong. He has acted like a brat about the whole situation. Punk handled it the wrong way, but Jack should also be held accountable. L

I hope AEW, and specifically Tony Khan, learn from all of this. They need to hold their employees accountable and focus on a better product.

 

[Dean]

He's not claiming it as his opinion, he's claiming it broadly as Perry actively fucking things up for other people, for the show, and for AEW itself with that spot when that demonstrably did not happen.

It did for me. It didn't for you. I'm glad your enjoyment of the show wasn't impacted by it. To me, it was just too much of the same shit. They didn't need two vehicles driving out on the stage. It's overkill. It's the same as too many table spots or dives. Less is more.

Would that FTW match really have suffered without that spot? Why risk doing it? Neither of those guys had worked with glass like that before to my knowledge. There wasn't enough heat going into the match. There were no stakes. It isn't worth having them do a reckless spot, just so Jungle Boy can make a smart ass remark on camera during the show that added absolutely nothing.

Jack Perry was never going to do a program with CM Punk. This isn't Jericho doing entertaining segments in 1998 that bashed Goldberg to get him over. This is taking a backstage incident that was about professionalism and whether a spot was warranted and then airing that grievance on-air during their biggest PPV in history. It was fucking stupid.

 

[Mark]

I don’t know enough to have a valid opinion either way on the particular incident leading up to his firing, but I will co-sign on @Dean’s statement about the “old school” way of dealing with people behaving like Punk may as well be viewed guilty as behaving. Historically, people have been blacklisted in the industry for a multitude of reasons, and one of the most commonly agreed upon is their inability to be an employee (you know… following directives, adhering to policy, working issues with others, etc.) and their reputation. He’s gotten marks on both, going as far back as I remember, and I haven’t watched wrestling in over 20 years… and he was JUST starting out back then. Kinda says something when someone as oblivious about current wrestling drama as I am can remember hearing someone’s name pop up on more than one occasion as problematic years and years ago.

It’s my understanding that since then, especially since Owen Hart’s death, they were a lot stricter about their safety protocols… it’s disheartening to hear that WWE docs misdiagnosed him when he had a staph infection, I had one before… that shit is no joke and nothing to play around with.

Look his opinion on it is his opinion, just because it differs from what you think is reality doesn't mean we resort to calling each other names.

We are all adults here.

Exactly. It’s wrestling. Even the shit said on social media can be an angle, wrestlers have maintained character at airports for 5 year olds… so outside of legitimate legal documents (which, let’s not forget, have also been fabricated for the sake of storyline purposes… y’all didn’t think Vince was gonna sign over the whole ass company on a match, right?) there’s not a lot that can be taken as 100% fact.

He's not claiming it as his opinion, he's claiming it broadly as Perry actively fucking things up for other people, for the show, and for AEW itself with that spot when that demonstrably did not happen.

Even if he were claiming it as 100% fact, that’s still no reason to take it to a personal place, whether it’s just making comments about him personally or letting it affect you enough personally to make those comments. If you know better, you know better. If y’all have sources to cite, cite them. There’s a right way and a wrong way to go about proving a point, and insulting one another to do it isn’t it.