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Zell Wolf Discussion Thread v3

A Punched Face

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The sorcerer is a fun role to have. It is a bit difficult though, because you can't actually communicate with your team. For me the safest play was just to actually be a townie who was only investigating people I knew weren't wolves and then hoping to get people on my side.

In actuality I knew the full roles when I did my night activities. I was planning on investigating. Raposa on the first night before a last minute change in plan. That would have been quite a night. Change him to a wolf the next day, Benzine has no GOOD claim. Oh the things that could have been.
 

Raine

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I should be asleep, but something was bothering me. And now I've found my way here. :wave

I just Ctrl+F'd myself for now 'cause it's midnight and I'm due into work at 6:30. Yay.

I jailed Warp and Alu last night. My mistake - perhaps - was that a weapon was not dropped. And that was an accident; I got busy today helping my mom and doing back to school shopping with my daughter it just slipped my mind.
I am legitimately shocked you did not, but I understand the time commitment thing. I fully expected the imprisonment after your vote for me, just wasn't sure who it would be with. :chuckle

I, and I alone, killed Local Hero. And it was a last minute thing when I realized something about the game. Originally we were targeting Kat. But anyway, when you died I was free to do whatever I wanted for the night. The priority list is going to invalidate a ton of assumptions, probably. Should be a fun read.

Indeed.
How would things have gone differently - or would they have - if I had dropped the weapon last night when you were jailed with Warp?
You would be alive without the Arsonist's intervention. We could have killed you - Alu can abandon his role at any time, even while imprisoned, and two wolves can kill the Warden - but it looks better if you're alive. And better still if I can make the 50/50 call of whether the weapon was dropped or not.

I couldn't use Wolf Chat, but I would have told Alu as much via Zell and killed you that way if that was the plan. A bit of a bad way to go, but I like being direct. 😂
 
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I, and I alone, killed Local Hero.

sad episode 4 GIF
 

Holly

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I should be asleep, but something was bothering me. And now I've found my way here. :wave

I just Ctrl+F'd myself for now 'cause it's midnight and I'm due into work at 6:30. Yay.


I am legitimately shocked you did not, but I understand the time commitment thing. I fully expected the imprisonment after your vote for me, just wasn't sure who it would be with. :chuckle

I, and I alone, killed Local Hero. And it was a last minute thing when I realized something about the game. Originally we were targeting Kat. But anyway, when you died I was free to do whatever I wanted for the night. The priority list is going to invalidate a ton of assumptions, probably. Should be a fun read.


You would be alive without the Arsonist's intervention. We could have killed you - Alu can abandon his role at any time, even while imprisoned, and two wolves can kill the Warden - but it looks better if you're alive. And better still if I can make the 50/50 call of whether the weapon was dropped or not.

I couldn't use Wolf Chat, but I would have told Alu as much via Zell and killed you that way if that was the plan. A bit of a bad way to go, but I like being direct. 😂

I think even though two wolves can break out it's a bad move to do unless killing the warden ends the game. Because it verifies two wolves to the townies. Not sure there is a way to spin that.
 

A Punched Face

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I think even though two wolves can break out it's a bad move to do unless killing the warden ends the game. Because it verifies two wolves to the townies. Not sure there is a way to spin that.
I went back and forth on it early in the day. The only way it could have worked out is if Killface was also killed in the same day. That would have allowed us to just pretend the jailing didn't happen and claim something like not being able to use my ability because I was nightmares. Although I was fairly confident I knew what everyone's aura (at least claimed) was at that point anyway and was planning on saying I checked vash and it came back unknown.
 

Ryan!

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Aww come on man, you can't be THAT bad a sport because the only read you've had correct in 3 straight games was using an ability on me!
As I said, I'm really just done with this whole thing. I'm logging out, likely not logging in again, and that's just because I don't see an option to delete.

I say this with the best intentions, you need to seek therapy. But it's very likely you're immune to it. Childhood trauma typically leads to one of three outcomes. One is suppression. You remember it, so that isn't the case. Then there's PTSD. Extreme anxiety, severe trust issues, depression, etc. But lying and manipulation being learned skills from your trauma leads to the third outcome. ASPD, Anti-Social Personality Disorder. You need help, and it isn't in my wheelhouse to do so.
 

Cole


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As I said, I'm really just done with this whole thing. I'm logging out, likely not logging in again, and that's just because I don't see an option to delete.

I say this with the best intentions, you need to seek therapy. But it's very likely you're immune to it. Childhood trauma typically leads to one of three outcomes. One is suppression. You remember it, so that isn't the case. Then there's PTSD. Extreme anxiety, severe trust issues, depression, etc. But lying and manipulation being learned skills from your trauma leads to the third outcome. ASPD, Anti-Social Personality Disorder. You need help, and it isn't in my wheelhouse to do so.
you're really trying to PUBLICLY revenge diagnose me because you were wrong? wow dude.

that's pretty fucking low. why? because I kept playing the game in here? you know absolutely nothing about me or my personality.
 
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Ryan!

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you're really trying to PUBLICLY revenge diagnose me because you were wrong? wow dude.

that's pretty fucking low. why? because I kept playing the game in here? you know absolutely nothing about me or my personality.
It's not revenge diagnosing at all. I don't care about being wrong. I like being surprised. I've already stated I'm not a great behaviorist.

The game, as you call it, was over, but you kept it going. You poked more and more. My predictions were wrong and I admitted it. But you couldn't stop. Why is that, Cole? Why get that intense over a game?
 

shortkut

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IIt's not revenge diagnosing at all. I don't care about being wrong. I like being surprised. I've already stated I'm not a great behaviorist.

The game, as you call it, was over, but you kept it going. You poked more and more. My predictions were wrong and I admitted it. But you couldn't stop. Why is that, Cole? Why get that intense over a game?
ignore pretty little liars GIF
 
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TD

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So a few things:

a) Cole was 100% playing the game while within here, the odds were stacked with him gone and we needed to cast as much doubt as possible in here so the Ritualist didn't get anything good

b) My Day 2 play was originally going to be claim Ritualist and keep Killface alive, the claims Killface made could have easily been lies, the two lines from Cole, Ryan is a bad player and tell the Wolfvengers he'll see us soon would be easy to discredit, especially as the Wolfvengers mascot, and when I asked what kut contributed it was that kut hated pineapple on pizza which isn't exactly privy to dead chat, again, easy to discredit

c) When Zell stated his comment about who was in dead chat (and I'll need to go back to see what Killface said to confirm before if he mentioned Tommy and Tubby), Zell's sentence alone did not confirm that Killface spoke to Cole which is what I was trying to cast doubt on, Zell actually said he let the priests in (Tommy and Tubby), which was true but the town took this as Zell confirming a role claim and there was no turning back from that so I had to pivot and decided on Loudmouth

d) The one liar I targeted (Raposa) turned out to be the fan, oops

e) Then yknow, Arsonist

f) I believe Warp changed to Hero in trying to pick someone who wouldn't have been targeted by the Arsonist

At the end of the day, some feedback for Zell:
- I don't think dead players should be let into here until after the one who can speak to them is out for the night
- I know it's not what you intended to happen when you said it, but I think you gotta be a bit more careful with what you confirm publically
 

Ryan!

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So a few things:

a) Cole was 100% playing the game while within here, the odds were stacked with him gone and we needed to cast as much doubt as possible in here so the Ritualist didn't get anything good
Everything before your deaths? Yeah, playing the game. I get that. I don't take that to heart.

Everything after? When it was confirmed I made a misread and admitted to it? When it kept going?
 

TD

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I'm also going to be taking a break from these games (I'll still be around the forums).

- I think it's really obvious I get really into it, I neglect work and now I'm behind, I need to find a balance of being able to play the game the way I like and balance work
- I need to think about if the Wolvesville format in a forum is for me, after playing a few last night, what makes Wolvesville more balanced doesn't seem to translate here when day phases are 2160x longer
 

shortkut

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I'm also going to be taking a break from these games (I'll still be around the forums).

- I think it's really obvious I get really into it, I neglect work and now I'm behind, I need to find a balance of being able to play the game the way I like and balance work
- I need to think about if the Wolvesville format in a forum is for me, after playing a few last night, what makes Wolvesville more balanced doesn't seem to translate here when day phases are 2160x longer
Maybe @Zell 17 can shorten the phases?
 
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TD

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Shorter phases would definitely help both of my current reasons for taking a step back.

IIRC, a lot of OG GW games had somewhere between 12-18 hr phases.

As fun as shitposting is, it's really hard to keep up with everything in that long of a phase even if you are paying attention all the time and the discussion may tighten up that way too.

I'm also not a fan of Night 0 in forum versions.
 

Cole


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It's not revenge diagnosing at all. I don't care about being wrong. I like being surprised. I've already stated I'm not a great behaviorist.

The game, as you call it, was over, but you kept it going. You poked more and more. My predictions were wrong and I admitted it. But you couldn't stop. Why is that, Cole? Why get that intense over a game?
except the game wasn't over.

but you do you. go around pretending yo diagnose people in public that hurt your feelings.

great job.
 
Shorter phases would definitely help both of my current reasons for taking a step back.

IIRC, a lot of OG GW games had somewhere between 12-18 hr phases.

As fun as shitposting is, it's really hard to keep up with everything in that long of a phase even if you are paying attention all the time and the discussion may tighten up that way too.

I'm also not a fan of Night 0 in forum versions.
The problem with the shorter phases is the time zones and work life. If everyone was ET then it would be easy. People are always able to skip if they think it’s dragging on. Back in the old days we were online all the time.
 

shortkut

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The problem with the shorter phases is the time zones and work life. If everyone was ET then it would be easy. People are always able to skip if they think it’s dragging on. Back in the old days we were online all the time.
Would 12 and 12 work? If someone knows they won’t be active they can message you and that day or night phase can be extended slightly?
 
Would 12 and 12 work? If someone knows they won’t be active they can message you and that day or night phase can be extended slightly?
We might be able to shorten the timeframes based on number of players too. When it’s a full 16 person game there’s always a couple people who are stragglers. Even in this last game a couple people didn’t do any night actions at all because they missed the 12 hour window. But once there are fewer people the long timeframes are excessive and we skip a lot.
 

shortkut

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We might be able to shorten the timeframes based on number of players too. When it’s a full 16 person game there’s always a couple people who are stragglers. Even in this last game a couple people didn’t do any night actions at all because they missed the 12 hour window. But once there are fewer people the long timeframes are excessive and we skip a lot.
12 hours is still a long time for someone not to quickly be able to send you a message. If they know in advance they can let you know and that phase can be extended, but from the outside this game felt way too long. If someone can’t throw in a random vote or action within 12 hours, that’s just unfortunate but the game is what it is
 
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Raine

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I think even though two wolves can break out it's a bad move to do unless killing the warden ends the game. Because it verifies two wolves to the townies. Not sure there is a way to spin that.
Yeah, your vote is one of the reasons I definitely didn't want to do it. As if, y'know, I didn't have enough billboards stapled to my forehead by the end there. :chuckle

The final out I tried, of all wolves being dead, was just absolute desperation. In theoretical terms it's a sound strategy, I think. But the rules completely kill(ed) it out of the gate... I did not expect Fool's Requiem to be the one to point it out. But props to him, he did good.

The game was effectively over at the end of Day 2; I know TD and I were basically 100% certain that Vash was the Werewolf Fan and Raposa was the Solo Killer. With Solo Killer dead, and having made no kills, it is literally impossible for wolves to win this gametype with role claiming being so prevalent. Even the handful of kills under Confusion Wolf influence barely moved the needle. There are only ever 3 slots; making competing claims is functionally a game of whack-a-mole while simultaneously legitimizing and solidifying an opposing force. Wolves with their single nightly kill, which can be blocked in a variety of ways, can't out-gun it.

And more credit where it's due: Vash role claiming Werewolf Fan as the Arsonist is some ballsy shit.

f) I believe Warp changed to Hero in trying to pick someone who wouldn't have been targeted by the Arsonist
Correct. If you look at the thread with the knowledge that Vash is either the Serial Killer or the Arsonist, you immediately find yourself staring at a large table. A fucking hit list. With conveniently marked names! 🤣

I assumed - hoped - all 4 listed were about to perish, but only Holly did. If you notice there are only 3 Arsonist kills, so I assume Vash had doused someone like Cole on Night 0 as a precaution. If he had doused Kat she still would've died through her own protection; poor Alu burnt to death in his jail cell!

I'm also going to be taking a break from these games (I'll still be around the forums).

- I think it's really obvious I get really into it, I neglect work and now I'm behind, I need to find a balance of being able to play the game the way I like and balance work
Unfortunately, likewise. Everything I posted publicly - leaving work early, trying to juggle cooking dinner and replying to folks - was 100% true. I was spending minimally 3 hours every day trying to make the most of it, to give the town a worthy opponent, so everyone could have a good time.

It's fun. I don't regret it. But it's very, very draining and at the very least I personally cannot sustain that very long. :)
 

Cole


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Yeah, your vote is one of the reasons I definitely didn't want to do it. As if, y'know, I didn't have enough billboards stapled to my forehead by the end there. :chuckle

The final out I tried, of all wolves being dead, was just absolute desperation. In theoretical terms it's a sound strategy, I think. But the rules completely kill(ed) it out of the gate... I did not expect Fool's Requiem to be the one to point it out. But props to him, he did good.

The game was effectively over at the end of Day 2; I know TD and I were basically 100% certain that Vash was the Werewolf Fan and Raposa was the Solo Killer. With Solo Killer dead, and having made no kills, it is literally impossible for wolves to win this gametype with role claiming being so prevalent. Even the handful of kills under Confusion Wolf influence barely moved the needle. There are only ever 3 slots; making competing claims is functionally a game of whack-a-mole while simultaneously legitimizing and solidifying an opposing force. Wolves with their single nightly kill, which can be blocked in a variety of ways, can't out-gun it.

And more credit where it's due: Vash role claiming Werewolf Fan as the Arsonist is some ballsy shit.


Correct. If you look at the thread with the knowledge that Vash is either the Serial Killer or the Arsonist, you immediately find yourself staring at a large table. A fucking hit list. With conveniently marked names! 🤣

I assumed - hoped - all 4 listed were about to perish, but only Holly did. If you notice there are only 3 Arsonist kills, so I assume Vash had doused someone like Cole on Night 0 as a precaution. If he had doused Kat she still would've died through her own protection; poor Alu burnt to death in his jail cell!


Unfortunately, likewise. Everything I posted publicly - leaving work early, trying to juggle cooking dinner and replying to folks - was 100% true. I was spending minimally 3 hours every day trying to make the most of it, to give the town a worthy opponent, so everyone could have a good time.

It's fun. I don't regret it. But it's very, very draining and at the very least I personally cannot sustain that very long. :)
Vash hit 3 wolves (well 2 and sorceror) on the first two nights.

the game was over.

there was still a path to victory, if only because Ali was almost entirely under the radar, but it required you guys to get vash lynched.

conversely, vash had a path to victory as long as he didn't get detected.

the problem was Vash actually hit TOO MANY wolves. there wasn't enough room for him to move around.
 

canadaguy

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Vash hit 3 wolves (well 2 and sorceror) on the first two nights.

the game was over.

there was still a path to victory, if only because Ali was almost entirely under the radar, but it required you guys to get vash lynched.

conversely, vash had a path to victory as long as he didn't get detected.

the problem was Vash actually hit TOO MANY wolves. there wasn't enough room for him to move around.
Yeah I wonder if he had waited one more night and just doused more, in hindsight, would have been the move?
 
I can only imagine this game is super hard if you're not active on it. Since I've died I've been busy with work (as you all probably should be!) and I've missed so much.

By the way, unlike all you losers making claims and being wrong, I got everything right (except for Fool on day 1, thought Ryan was wolf fan, and thought Alu was 100% confirmed good the entire game 😬). I suspected TD, Vash, and Warp.

Local best player confirmed
 
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Cole


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Yeah I wonder if he had waited one more night and just doused more, in hindsight, would have been the move?
I think it was the safer play, yeah.

when he lit the match, there were so few people left that were suspicious

I think @Kat is the one that primarily narrowed it down to warp, ants, vash.

and at that point no one but the town can win.

but if he had just gotten 2 more doused, and both were CONFIRMED townies.

he has a chance.
 

canadaguy

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I think it was the safer play, yeah.

when he lit the match, there were so few people left that were suspicious

I think @Kat is the one that primarily narrowed it down to warp, ants, vash.

and at that point no one but the town can win.

but if he had just gotten 2 more doused, and both were CONFIRMED townies.

he has a chance.
And once it was down to those three, I think he's instantly outed.

He role claimed an unknown aura, the other two claimed a good aura role.

That made him stick out as the arsonist. It makes sense early in the game, but in the end game it was just a giant sign saying "look at me I'm the killer"
 

TD

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Vash hit 3 wolves (well 2 and sorceror) on the first two nights.

the game was over.

there was still a path to victory, if only because Ali was almost entirely under the radar, but it required you guys to get vash lynched.

conversely, vash had a path to victory as long as he didn't get detected.

the problem was Vash actually hit TOO MANY wolves. there wasn't enough room for him to move around.
Yup, it didn't help that we got Vash and Raposa swapped but we had everyone else figured out. If we voted out Vash, not sure how this turns out.

I knew the arsonist was going to strike which is why I was screaming for Holly to lock me up in a post she might have missed, but even then, since Vash targeted her it wouldn't have mattered.

If I'm Vash though, I'm dousing two more people that night. There were enough other unconfirmed targets but I mean, hindsight is everything. If Alu and I were indeed townies, it's a very different game.
 
I can only imagine this game is super hard if you're not active on it. Since I've died I've been busy with work (as you all probably should be!) and I've missed so much.

By the way, unlike all you losers making claims and being wrong, I got everything right (except for Fool on day 1, thought Ryan was wolf fan, and thought Alu was 100% confirmed good the entire game 😬). I suspected TD, Vash, and Warp.

Local best player confirmed
Oh and Raposa 😄
 

Cole


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Yup, it didn't help that we got Vash and Raposa swapped but we had everyone else figured out. If we voted out Vash, not sure how this turns out.

I knew the arsonist was going to strike which is why I was screaming for Holly to lock me up in a post she might have missed, but even then, since Vash targeted her it wouldn't have mattered.

If I'm Vash though, I'm dousing two more people that night. There were enough other unconfirmed targets but I mean, hindsight is everything. If Alu and I were indeed townies, it's a very different game.
if you lynch Vash I think it's a wolf win.

alu was still extremely under the radar, you were under the radar, and Warp only had minor suspicion. it's THAT point where Alu says "I checked warp, she's evil", TD you jump that play, you guys string up Warp and then eat raposa. you win.
 
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